Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aldoth 08-31-06, 01:37 AM	So I finally caved and started to buy Eberron to run a game in this fine looking world. I am lay-bying The world book and Sharn city of towers. I have in 3.5 The corebooks and Whispers of the Vampire's Blade. Also a nice run of Dragon and Dungeon magazine. What should I purchase next. Eberron and non Eberron? The complete books, race books ect? Just getting started so please let me know. Im running Age of Worms right now but after that I'm looking at Eberron goodness. Thanks for your time.
Lafarallin 08-31-06, 01:42 AM	So I finally caved and started to buy Eberron to run a game in this fine looking world. I am lay-bying The world book and Sharn city of towers. I have in 3.5 The corebooks and Whispers of the Vampire's Blade. Also a nice run of Dragon and Dungeon magazine. What should I purchase next. Eberron and non Eberron? The complete books, race books ect? Just getting started so please let me know. Im running Age of Worms right now but after that I'm looking at Eberron goodness. Thanks for your time.. I really enjoyed The Five Nations and Magic of Eberron
Dwarven Godfather 08-31-06, 01:55 AM	I would recommend the Magic of Eberron, Races of Eberron and the Five Nations. I have all of them and they are really good trades for me. The others could wait, but for starting this are good starting books.
maollelujah 08-31-06, 08:12 AM	I think the ECS and Sharn are really all you need. The rest of the books are sometimes interesting and mildly helpful, but there is nothing in them that one must have to play. Races of Eberron does give the new races more to work with and the write up on the Kalashtar is pretty interesting, but it isn't a must have. Still my PCs have used and so have I in game play. Five Nations in my mind was kind of a disappointment. It had a lot of potential, but came up short. It has nothing that you won't miss. Haven't used it in gameplay. Players Guide to Eberron is a good read, but not that useful. I don't think I've used in game play since I bought it. But letting your PCs read parts of it makes a good introduction to the setting. Magic of Eberron is another book that I can't remember using. But again it does have some interesting parts, but nothing wholly useful. Secrets of Xen'drik is probably the most interesting so far. I wish it gave a little more concrete example of an old giant kingdom, but still if you plan to travel Xen'drik it seems very useful. Still there are a lot of things that could catch your eye. Explorer's Handbook has some decent stuff it. Mostly ways to get your adventurers into the Explorer line of work. But again it isn't a must buy, and I've used in only slightly. I would say just save your money for the Dragonmarked, but that is just my opinion...
DanFor 08-31-06, 09:08 AM	I have all the Eberron books except "Races of Eberron". While running my Eberron campaign, the most used book I've utilized, by a large margin, has been "Magic of Eberron". "The Player's Guide to Eberron" and "Five Nations" have additional background material beyond the main rulebook which I've found useful. I just got "Secrets of Xen'drik", so I haven't really had a chance to read through it. (I haven't given my players' characters a reason to go to Xen'drik, yet). As far as non-Eberron, non-core sources, I've only used "Expanded Psionics Handbook" and "Monster Manual III" in my campaign.
Kreistor1 08-31-06, 10:10 AM	Eberron Campaign Setting is first of course. Sharn: City of Towers second. Easiest way to start. It gives you details of the city, and enough specific settign to save you worlds of time creating the players' home base. Now, if you are going to run the modules, buy them next. You don't need any other books. If you are going to create your own adventures, keep going... Five Nations third. This gives you the background for the major nations. Explorer's Handbook provides several pre-designed areas that you can use for your adventures. This can be a nice time saver. Secrets of Xen'drik does the same as the ExHB, but it is Xen'drik specific. That can be okay, if you want to spend a serious amount of time there. Faiths of Eberron depends mainly on how important religion is to your campaign. I don't think you're going to get too many plot ideas out of the BoV section. A lot of the information might be very important to certain character concepts, but to many, it is entirely useless. So, the more important religion is in your campaign, the higher this book should be rated. The last three -- Magic of Eberron, Races of Eberron and Player's Guide to Eberron -- aren't vital at all. RoE only really provides a few feats and PrC's for the PC's and some NPC's. MoE gives some new spells, items, and options, but you've already got enough of those. PGtE duplicates a lot of the ECS, meaning you're buying the same info twice, but it does have a few more expanded details if you really want them.
cancerousmango 08-31-06, 02:22 PM	The book of erotic fantasy is all you'll ever need. JK.
Edymnion 08-31-06, 03:17 PM	IMO, the order of "Must Have" is as follows: Eberron Campaign Setting: Duh, its the main setting book, you gotta buy this one first. Players Guide to Eberron: If you ignore the sidebars, this is the single best book in the line, IMO. Almost no crunch of any kind, its just page after page after page of incredible fluff that is invaluable in getting the right feel for the setting. Sharn: City of Towers: This thing is almost a mini-campaign setting book in it's own right. So much good stuff here that you can also apply to other large cities in the game. Five Nations: Its somewhere between the PGtE and S:CoT, IMO. Lots of great fluff, with some good crunch to back it up. I don't understand why people dump on it. Other than some wonky layout issues, the material in here is incredibly good. Magic of Eberron: The Artificer's best friend. Has a few issues, like Infusions that can't be used and more high level material than low level, but its still pretty sweet. Races of Eberron: I'm well known for my hatred of this book, and for good reason. The flavor is some of the worst in the line, to the point I'm glad its not actually *IN* the Eberron line. Yes, its a generic Races of X line book, its not officially part of the Eberron universe. However, it does have some good mechanics in it, and is useful to have for that, if nothing else. Explorer's Handbook: For me, this book was utterly worthless. Its almost nothing but premade adventure locations, which is just wasted space IMO. Secrets of Xen'Drik: Haven't gotten this one yet, but then again, from what I've heard on the boards I have no burning desire to get it either. I hear all this stuff about premade Xen'Drik adventure locals, which I already said I find useless, and people saying its like the Explorer's Handbook, which I also found useless. Combine that with the fact that its all about what boils down to a continent half a world away from the main campaign setting, it earns the bottom slot on my list.
cancerousmango 08-31-06, 03:24 PM	Magic of Eberron: The Artificer's best friend. Has a few issues, like Infusions that can't be used and more high level material than low level, but its still pretty sweet. What do you mean by infusions that can't be used?
Edymnion 08-31-06, 03:28 PM	What do you mean by infusions that can't be used?Has an infusion that is supposed to be cast directly onto natural weapons. Other than WF (which the infusion already has a specific use on), all natural weapons are considered part of the creature, and infusions can only be used on inanimate objects. You *CANNOT* directly infuse anything into a living being, or any part of it.
cancerousmango 08-31-06, 03:36 PM	Has an infusion that is supposed to be cast directly onto natural weapons. Other than WF (which the infusion already has a specific use on), all natural weapons are considered part of the creature, and infusions can only be used on inanimate objects. You *CANNOT* directly infuse anything into a living being, or any part of it. You split hairs, I would just let it fly.
Lafarallin 08-31-06, 03:38 PM	You split hairs, I would just let it fly. I don't think he is splitting hairs. He is just stating the rules which are obviously there for game balance. Casting infusions into natural weapons or a monk's fists would be a little overpowered, in my humble opinion.
cancerousmango 08-31-06, 03:40 PM	I don't think he is splitting hairs. He is just stating the rules which are obviously there for game balance. Casting infusions into natural weapons or a monk's fists would be a little overpowered, in my humble opinion. Guess so.
Edymnion 08-31-06, 05:55 PM	You split hairs, I would just let it fly.Well, lets put it this way, would you think its okay to ignore the "Target" section in a spell's statblock? Would you allow a Shatter spell to work on an elf? Its the same thing here, all infusions, by definition, have "Target: Object" in their statblock.
Donald_Cannith 08-31-06, 07:32 PM	but is a tooth an object is a claw an object or what if you put some metal on the claw or tooth thats decorative otherwise but suddenly is useful for such things is that legal
Lafarallin 08-31-06, 07:35 PM	but is a tooth an object is a claw an object or what if you put some metal on the claw or tooth thats decorative otherwise but suddenly is useful for such things is that legal I would rule "no". This is all a game balancing issue. Artificers should be able to cast infusions into a warforge or other item. They give an example of casting bull's strength on someone's cloak, not on them. I think the purpose was to somewhat limit an all ready powerful class. If you let an artificer cast on a claw or fangs, why not let them cast on a monk's hands? If you allow that, why not let them cast on anyone with natural armor class? A claw is as natural as scales to a lizardman. There has be some limitations to being an artificer. If you were to allow this I think you take away from sorcerors and wizards. HOWEVER, you can do whatever you want. You can house rule whatever you want. It is your campaign...not mine.
Edymnion 08-31-06, 07:45 PM	but is a tooth an object is a claw an objectOnly if you pull it out. If you rule that they are objects while still attatched, you must also rule that they can be sundered. If you rule that you can sunder a shifter's claws, then you can sunder a monk's hands, etc etc etc. It just opens the floodgate.
Ringmereth 09-01-06, 02:03 AM	Since you're looking to run a game, not play, I'd suggest picking up Five Nations. Even if you're DMing a game elsewhere in Khorvaire, the Five originally ruled the entirety of the continent, and their influences remain. The book is chock full of good fluff with some decent bits of crunch sprinkled in there, and while there's some overlap between FN and the ECS, the book presents and fleshes out a lot of NPCs, organizations, and places in central Khorvaire.
OneWinged4ngel 09-01-06, 02:33 AM	I would definitely say Five Nations would be the book to pick up after the ECS and Sharn: City of Towers. I've found myself using it quite a bit. After that, it's largely based on what you want to have. More information on the Kalashtar? Grab Races of Eberron. Running a campaign in Xen'drik? Grab Secrets of Xen'drik. PGTE can be occasonally useful... although much of its information can be a bit... iffy, to say the least. Some of the material they added 'Eberron Expanded' style seems like they threw darts at a map to decide where to put it. I find Explorer's Handbook and Magic of Eberron to be the most disposable of all the books...
Amaril 09-01-06, 09:45 AM	Don't forget Faiths of Eberron comes out this month.
maollelujah 09-01-06, 01:11 PM	Five Nations: Its somewhere between the PGtE and S:CoT, IMO. Lots of great fluff, with some good crunch to back it up. I don't understand why people dump on it. Other than some wonky layout issues, the material in here is incredibly good. I think it is because most of the NPCs it talked about where already in discussed in ECS and just rehashed the ECS material. Also most of the fluff something that takes minutes to create, and most of the organizations were a little long winded. Oh and most of the maps pretty much suck. (Wroat and Flamekeep are just plain silly. Although I did find the map of Thrane pretty good.) It could've been great, but turned out below-average.
shemov 09-02-06, 02:18 AM	must have ECS Sharn:CoT PGtE SoE + DRAGONSHARDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! other books you should forget
makeshiftwings 09-02-06, 04:19 AM	I'm going to veer off from the rest of the replies and say that you probably have enough Eberron with the ECS and Sharn, and that the most important book to get next would be the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Eberron has psionics much more integrated into its setting than the other settings; if you don't have the XPH, then you're probably going to have to push the Kalashtar, Inspired, Quori, and the whole continent of Sarlona into the background. The setting is designed so you can ignore all of that without it seeming too strange, but I think the setting is better with those groups involved. Also, I think all four of the main "Complete" books are pretty useful, and there are references to some of those books in the Eberron books and articles. I particularly think classes like the Warlock and Scout can add a lot of diversity to the game.
Aldoth 09-06-06, 08:39 AM	Thank you for the feedback. I have a good picture of the books and there merits and flaws and that is what I wanted to know. Now with campaign models, what have you found really works in Eberron? Also what do we think of the adventures?
ArcTan 09-06-06, 01:56 PM	Well, I will note that while the real XPH is nice to have, it's not a must-buy because all its mechanics exist in the SRD.
Aldoth 09-09-06, 11:55 PM	Srd?
Ricohard_Draconis 09-10-06, 12:03 AM	the system reference document. poke around on the sight and you should find it.
Edymnion 09-10-06, 04:39 PM	the system reference document. poke around on the sight and you should find it.The links are in my sig. :P
makeshiftwings 09-11-06, 05:26 PM	The links are in my sig. :P Or if Edy's sig is mysteriously missing again, you can read it here: http://www.d20srd.org/
Edymnion 09-11-06, 08:57 PM	Or if Edy's sig is mysteriously missing againThe default setting for the boards is to only display a sig once per page, meaning if you wanna see mine, you gotta scroll back up to the first post of mine on this page.
PoeticJustice 09-12-06, 12:56 AM	I totally recommend you buy Secrets of Xen'Drik even if you're not playing on Eberron. It's a fantastic companion piece to Sharn: City of Towers. The two are not necessarily equivalent in focus, nor should they be, but there's a lot of awesome stuff nonetheless.
operations 09-12-06, 07:25 PM	I agree on Five Nations. It's handy. I like the "Five things every native of ________ should know" part. Sharn is cool, but only necessary if you're going to run a lot of games in the city. If it's just the 'home port' between adventures, the stuff in the main setting book is fine. The Explorer's Handbook is more useful than some people indicate. It has sites from all over the world, and detailed maps of things that can be used frequently.
Edymnion 09-13-06, 08:19 PM	I've had SoX for a few days now, and I've read through most of it. Its not a bad little book, actually. Its nice to see some familiar faces and places from the Dreaming Dark trilogy, and some of the adventure local ideas are pretty cool as well. I do like the way the locals were presented as a "Here's a swamp location, you could stick it anywhere that you need a swamp encounter". And really, I think some people overstated the connection between the WF and the Quori. The Quoriforged are all mindless constructs that are really nothing more than golems that Quori could posess, which still leaves the real Warforged to the Giants to create. All in all, I'd put it above the Explorer's Handbook, but still below the rest in the terms of must-have-ness. It would obviously go much higher if you're going to be doing a Xen'Drik specific campaign, but in terms of general usefulness, I'd put it at #7 on my list, promoted up from it's previous #8 slot, again making the Explorer's Handbook the most unneeded book in the Eberron line.
PoeticJustice 09-14-06, 02:54 PM	All in all, I'd put it above the Explorer's Handbook, but still below the rest in the terms of must-have-ness. It would obviously go much higher if you're going to be doing a Xen'Drik specific campaign, but in terms of general usefulness, I'd put it at #7 on my list, promoted up from it's previous #8 slot, again making the Explorer's Handbook the most unneeded book in the Eberron line. On a strictly must-have basis, all you need is the ECS. 5 Nations and Magic of Eberron fill their niche, but the quality of the writing can't compare to Secrets of xen' Drik. I question the merits of 5 Nations, given that while they provide those handy sidebars detailing the national character of each country, they also get the perceived facts wrong on many occasions. Look at the Healer in Fairhaven, the appropriation by Thrane of Arcanix, and the questionable power level involved in most NPCs detailed in the book and you'll read a narrative of authors who weren't totally comfortable with the setting. Magic of Eberron has its problems too, as does Races of Eberron. Secrets of Xen' Drik, on the other hand, nails almost every page. More than that, it has the spirit of the setting too. Bottom line: I think higher-quality info about an esoteric subject is better than lower-quality material about high-profile topics.
Melvin the Mediocre 09-14-06, 04:16 PM	Now that the Faiths of Eberron book is out, I'm curious where people rate it on the must have list. I pre-ordered mine from Amazon and really wish I had not as it still hasn't arrived. But from what I have glimpsed on line I think it may be my second favorite after the ECS. Currently that position is held by 5 Nations, with Magic of Eb. coming in third.
Kreistor1 09-14-06, 04:52 PM	Updated my entry to reflect Faiths.
Euangelion 09-14-06, 05:13 PM	Depending on your campaign, other generic books may end up being more useful than some of the Eberron books. If you're going to be dealing a lot with the Cults of the Dragon Below, then Lords of Madness will be very helpful, with Keith's Eberron Expanded article to guide you. Heavy undead campaign? Libris Mortis and Heroes of Horror, which is Eberron's Book of Vile Darkness. Last War campaign? Heroes of Battle. Sea campaign? Stormwrack, though an Eberron veteran will be able to tell the difference between the Mockery and the Devourer! ;) (Lords of Madness (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20050704a), Libris Mortis (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20060130a), and Heroes of Battle (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20050725a)have been covered by Eberron Expanded articles, keeping in mind that Heroes of Battle and Libris Mortis have two parts each.) Then again, anyone running a jungle campaign will probably be able to use much of Secrets of Xen'drik, even if it's not in Eberron.
Edymnion 09-14-06, 09:03 PM	Bottom line: I think higher-quality info about an esoteric subject is better than lower-quality material about high-profile topics.I chose my rankings based on how useful they will be for a generic game. Since the generic game is going to be set in Khovaire, that means the information in Five Nations is, by default, going to see MUCH more use than the information in SoX. And as you know, I hate what Races of Eberron did to the setting as a whole, but it does have a lot of good usable crunch in it, making it more useful on average than singular adventure locals in Explorer's Handbook. My opinion is that the must-have-ness of a book relates more to how often it will be used than the overall quality of the book. If the quality is bad, it won't get used as often, but even a poorly written book that has a lot of usable material in it is more important to have than a very well written book that has stuff you might use once in a campaign.
PoeticJustice 09-15-06, 11:53 AM	My opinion is that the must-have-ness of a book relates more to how often it will be used than the overall quality of the book. If the quality is bad, it won't get used as often, but even a poorly written book that has a lot of usable material in it is more important to have than a very well written book that has stuff you might use once in a campaign. Here's the thing: beyond my initial reading, in which I'll admit to be pretty intrigued, I only ever cracked 5 Nations open to look at the Prestige Classes. Even then, I don't think I ever used any of them. How bad does a new DM need to know that Audairians like wine, horses, and fencing? How bad does he need to know the structure of Rekkenmark Academy? Is it worth 30 Bucks? To a lesser extent, I feel the same way about Magic of Eberron and Races of Eberron. They really don't say much that hasn't been said already. Karrnathi uses Zombies. Daelkyr magic corrupts. Big deal. Some of the supplemental rules are interesting, but there's plenty to be had in other, more worthy books. Now, I sold most of my Eberron collection. I'm glad I did. But I can understand the desire to root for the home team and buy every book and try incorporate it. I just don't feel that way myself. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, Edy.
eehamburg 09-15-06, 12:11 PM	I'm gonna say that at one point or another you may just need every single book that you can get your hands on ... yeah ... that's what I'm gonna say :)
Aldoth 09-24-06, 09:38 AM	Ok so now I have the campaign book and Sharn. Also have Whispers of the Vamipre's Blade and Grasp of the Emerald Claw. I need to get Shadow of the Last War. (it's Part 1 so you know) Im just taking it in at the moment. I love the CD with Sharn. Im using it as background with Pirates of the Carribean soundtrack while I work on my novel. Good background music. So with the $40 in three weeks (Im in australia so double the price of all the books.) What should I buy next. Not yet running will run once I finish running Age of Worms. Still on the first adventure.