Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cancerousmango 08-28-06, 09:20 PM	My player wants to play a freelance photojournalist, and wants some way to get images of the places he goes to. He posted a thread about this on the Character Development boards (where no one goes) so I thought I'd get more responses here. Someone there posted, "maybe just give him a protoype camera obscura?" Doesn't fit the Eberronian idiom, dunnit?
Twiggly the Gnome 08-28-06, 10:00 PM	How about a one-shot magic item that consists of a small metal plate with a mirrored surface. When a command word is spoken the image being reflected is seared on the plate's surface, creating a printing plate suitable for a publishing press. One plate per image (four if you want color ;) ).
InfinityStar8 08-28-06, 10:04 PM	Maybe make it like an Eternal Wand. You can use it X per day, so make the pictures count. Think it's a little easier then a new unit for each pic.
Loki5654 08-28-06, 10:33 PM	Just make it a single use item that combines Flare, Silent Image, and Amanuensis (to copy the image to paper).
Nived 08-28-06, 11:02 PM	Some sort of illusion deffinatly. A limited use Silent Image.
PowerPlay 08-28-06, 11:20 PM	Er... I think the item should require a ranged touch attack. No, seriously. One important part of this item needs to be a function to determine the quality of the image taken. So we need to know whether or not I get a good picture. We could thus treat it as a ranged weapon which would allow us to adapt some spells/abilities to allow for more interesting options... i.e. "True Shot" (+20 to "attack roll"), quick draw, rapid reload, etc. I think it should also have ammunition, etc. This should be a relatively common item, although not necessarily inexpensive - good cameras have never been cheap. Also, does anyone have a better name for the dang thing? If you are capturing a photo with "magic" you aren't really using... uh... photons... or whatever... Mage Caster? Mage... caster journalist... man... Imagejournalist? Imajouralnist? iJournalist (by Mac)? Mordenkainen's Paparazzi? -PowerPlay
cancerousmango 08-28-06, 11:24 PM	Those are stupid names, Powerplay, get on AIM. Also, sightscribe might be a cool name, it scribes what you see!
Lafarallin 08-28-06, 11:37 PM	My personal opinion is a camera would be a bad thing to introduce to Eberron. Soon after you allow a camera you'll have someone wanting to make a camcorder. Once the camcorder shows up, it will shortly lead to people wanting to view the videos on a flat dragon shard screen. This will obviously lead to the first computer. This is when the campaign will end. Now the PC's will surf porn and never leave to take another adventure. :weep:
cancerousmango 08-28-06, 11:44 PM	They'll make movies about fantastic, faraway places like York, Pennsylvania.
Nived 08-28-06, 11:50 PM	There is such a thing as a camcorder... its called a Gnome Illusionist under a Zone of Truth with a good memory.
Lafarallin 08-29-06, 12:34 AM	There is such a thing as a camcorder... its called a Gnome Illusionist under a Zone of Truth with a good memory. Ugh...we're all doomed!! :eek:
Just another user 08-29-06, 04:15 AM	I'd make the "camera" a charged magic item based on "silent image", it generate the image based on the user's senses , what you see is what you get, it store the images in little dragonshards that can be replaced when they are fully charged (they can't be reused) they are not very common because they are expensive and because only bards (or anyone with silent image in his spell list) can use them reliably (i.e. without a UMD check). As I've said, I would make it expensive or even better I would make it rare, only house Sivis know how to make the camera and the special shard they need and they keep a more or less strict control over it, not unlike house Lyrandar with his airships, I would not say that only marked gnomes can use it, but it si an option. How to get it: Working for a organization: newspapers can supply you with a shardbox, because they have a deal with Sivis, but because they are rare you must make it worth, if you lost it often or bring shards full of garbage don't expect that they give you a new shard too soon. other organizations with access to cameras are university museums or the various adventurers's guilds (wynarn foundation). Sivis, if you are famous enough and you must go somewhere interesting Sivis could give you a camera to bring back some picture of the place, but don't expect this at first level, you must be worth the effort. Black market: yes, there are some shardbox and picshards available outside the normal contact of house Sivis, even if not without the house knowledge, house sivis allow this for the same reason lyrandar sell those rare airships to privates, deniabilty, if a shardbox is used for something illegal or that could embaras the house, Sivis can say that he know nothing about it, and sometime it could even be true.
Just another user 08-29-06, 04:29 AM	And personally I think a magic camera would fit very well with the pulp noir fellings of Eberron.
Shady314 08-29-06, 05:52 AM	Craft: Painting or Drawing too crazy? :rolleyes: Seriously. Think how much action an artistic bard reporter must get in Eberron. If it MUST be a magic item I suggest using a Dragonshard in someway. Dragon shards make anything Eberronish. I'd make them spectacles or monocle or something similar. Very kewl to take a picture of whatever you may be looking at just by speaking a command word. The more I think about it though the more I think this item is a BAD idea. Especially if you make it's existence public and well known. It would have to be a unique magic item/minor artifact. Think of the uses such an item has in the intrigue filled world of Eberron. I seriously think every intelligence organization and more would try to get their hands on this by any means necessary. Unless you rule such items exist throughout Eberron and so is not such a big deal but then you always have to take this item's existence into account. Which ends up making the character less special. It's a hard call. Perhaps the gnomes of House Sivis have created a quill pen with an embedded dragonshard that can grant a competence bonus to craft drawing checks and produce any color of ink indefinitely? Probably the best option.
Fabius Maximus 08-29-06, 06:34 AM	How about hasted pixies in small boxes who draw the pictures extremely fast? If you're at it, why not use wooden boxes with wires in it to capture music? :rolleyes:
Bluebrush 08-29-06, 06:56 AM	I used to be keen on the idea of goblin alchemists perfecting the process of capturing images on an exposed silver plate. Purely because I'd get to call it a "Darguunotype". Nowadays, I'd just say that pencils should be more widely available and journalists should use those ranks in Craft: Artwork.
Syltorian 08-29-06, 08:46 AM	There was an article in the Dragon Magazine some time ago about modern equipment (internet maps, pda, etc) replicated with magic. Some of it needs some adaptation not to impunge on the monopoly of the dragonmarked houses (such as the statuettes of delivery), but otherwise they seem to hit the flavour of Eberron pretty well. But I disgress. These items also include the magical equivalent of a camera Image Crystal. Basically, a one-shot item that creates a silent image in the crystal itself of whatever it 'sees' when it is activated. They are low-priced magic items (comparative to other magic items, not to what a journalist normally earns as a wage). Unfortunately, I am currently in transition between accomodations, and my dragon magazines are all in storage, so I do not know which issue this is in. Otherwise, perhaps an adaptation of the image-recording item tied to the Dragonmark of Shadow in Magic of Eberron. Again, my stuff is all in storage so I don't know the name anymore. (So Eberron already has a one-minute camcorder :P)
Save-vs-DM 08-29-06, 10:09 AM	This item is based on the deguerrotype, one of the oldest photographic processes. It also has an aspect of a callotype, as it can be used to produce positive images from a negative. If you're looking for antoher version, Dragon 327 has a single use camera item on page 67. (This is what happens when you ask a photographer who's also a gamer to make magic items). Image Binder An image binder is a simple bronze ring with two handles that accepts copper discs. You can use an image binder to capture images inside a crystal. Description: An image binder is a five inch bronze ring framed by two ornate wooden handles. The bronze ring has been inlayed with silver runes of arcane power. The interior of the bronze ring has been carved to accept cut and polished bronze discs that lock into place with a simple twisting motion. Each disc is flat and featureless, save for a tiny hole in the middle that serves as a focusing device. When an image disc is placed into the bronze ring, it glows a very faint white color until it has been used. Once an image disc has been used, it stops glowing and the back of the disc becomes a flat black color. A captured negative image then appears on the opposite side of the disc in black and white. Activation: An image binder is activated by placing an image disc into the holder, looking through the hole to find what you wish to be captured, and winking. When you wink with the image binder placed up to your eye, whatever you see through the hole is captured on the image disc for eternity. You can then transfer the image to paper or parchment by placing the image disc on a piece of paper and saying the command word. Effect: An image binder can reproduce a black and white copy of a scene on a blank copper image disc. Once the image has been captured, it cannot be changed short of magic such as limited wish, wish, or permanent image. The image discs can then be used to transfer the image to paper. Aura/Caster Level: Moderate illusion and evocation. CL 5th. Construction: Image Binder requires Craft Wondrous Item and permanency, 1,000 gp, 80 XP, 2 days. Image Discs require Craft Wondrous Item and silent image, 50 gp, 4 XP, 1 day. Weight: 1 lb. Price: Image Binder 2,000 gp, Image Disc 100 gp. Cheers, Save vs DM
Siran Dunmorgan 08-29-06, 12:58 PM	Full-motion video cameras were officially introduced in Magic of Eberron. They have two drawbacks: They're fairly large, being similar in size to a box camera on a tripod. They require that the user bear the Mark of Shadow. The division of labor in Eberron seems to be that House Phiarlan and House Thuranni govern the entertainment business, including the Eberron analogue of the film industry, while House Sivis is the backbone of the news business. That said, House Sivis clearly has some means of transcribing and copying images; just, not photographic images. Rather, they can reproduce anything drawn to specification; they can reproduce Albrecht Dürer's Young Hare (http://www.southern.net/wm/paint/auth/durer/hare.jpg), for instance, but could not take a 'photograph' of a hare from life. I suspect, based on this, that characters inventing—or simply using—cameras that were not dragonmark focus items would very likely find themselves at odds with the Houses in short order. —Siran Dunmorgan
Kreistor1 08-29-06, 01:06 PM	Okay, here's what I would do... I want the camera "lens" to have an Eberron feel, but an Elemental isn't appropriate for light manipulation. A Dragonshard, on the other hand, is a crystal and could be enchanted to manipulate light. The device looks like a box with a Syberis shard projecting out the front. You need a medium on which you can place an image. I view Eberron to be mor 1800's tech than 1900's, so I would make the medium to be bulky. I like the idea of alchemical substances storing the image. So I invent an alcehmical liquid that responds to light. It begins as a thick, grey liquid, which we trap between two panes of glass. When light strikes the glass, the substance repels the black portion, which brightens that position. The medium must be protected from light at all times, so it would require some kind of sleeve, and you can't look at it until the next step. Processing the film requires someone with Darkvision. The medium is first subjected to higher than boiling temperatures in order to harden the alchemical substances. This is then placed in another device. Light will be projected through the medium to project it onto another medium, but this time it has only a sheet of steel instead of between two panes of glass. It is positioned vertically, so that gravity holds the alchemical substance onto that single pane. It is now exposed to the original, and baked to harden it. This sheet can now be used as a master. The master is dipped into a bath of black dye. The hardened substance will pick up de in proportion to how much is present. The dye will deposit onto a sheet of paper pressed to the master, so you can use silkscreening techniques to transfer the image and make hundreds of copies. Multiple steps of colours are required in order to produce the final image. It is important to remember that Eberron is intended to be ideal for Noir, which means black and white. I don't think colour pictures are appropriate to the genre. You may disagree and not be wrong.
PowerPlay 08-29-06, 07:25 PM	There is such a thing as a camcorder... its called a Gnome Illusionist under a Zone of Truth with a good memory. Hahaha... and then we're going to make him play back his memories of gnome sex for us for the first Eberron porn? -PowerPlay
Nived 08-29-06, 08:27 PM	Wouldn't need the zone of truth for that... And there's a district for that sort of thing in Sharn.
Loki5654 08-29-06, 08:43 PM	Okay, here's what I would do... I want the camera "lens" to have an Eberron feel, but an Elemental isn't appropriate for light manipulation. A Dragonshard, on the other hand, is a crystal and could be enchanted to manipulate light. The device looks like a box with a Syberis shard projecting out the front. You need a medium on which you can place an image. I view Eberron to be mor 1800's tech than 1900's, so I would make the medium to be bulky. I like the idea of alchemical substances storing the image. So I invent an alcehmical liquid that responds to light. It begins as a thick, grey liquid, which we trap between two panes of glass. When light strikes the glass, the substance repels the black portion, which brightens that position. The medium must be protected from light at all times, so it would require some kind of sleeve, and you can't look at it until the next step. Processing the film requires someone with Darkvision. The medium is first subjected to higher than boiling temperatures in order to harden the alchemical substances. This is then placed in another device. Light will be projected through the medium to project it onto another medium, but this time it has only a sheet of steel instead of between two panes of glass. It is positioned vertically, so that gravity holds the alchemical substance onto that single pane. It is now exposed to the original, and baked to harden it. This sheet can now be used as a master. The master is dipped into a bath of black dye. The hardened substance will pick up de in proportion to how much is present. The dye will deposit onto a sheet of paper pressed to the master, so you can use silkscreening techniques to transfer the image and make hundreds of copies. Multiple steps of colours are required in order to produce the final image. It is important to remember that Eberron is intended to be ideal for Noir, which means black and white. I don't think colour pictures are appropriate to the genre. You may disagree and not be wrong. I think you've got too much science in your magic. Single use magic item, use activated (Spell level × caster level × 50 gp) Silent Image (SL1 x CL1 x 50gp = 50gp) Need a flash? As above plus: Flare (SL.5 x CL1 x 50gp = 25gp. Total 75gp) Copy to paper? As above plus: Amauensis (SL.5 x CL1 x 50gp = 25gp. Image + Copy = 75gp, Image + Flash + Copy = 100gp) Your friendly neighborhood Magewright can sell them to you by the dozen. Ask your editor if you can write them off as a business expense. Now get out of my office, Parker. (j/k)
PowerPlay 08-29-06, 11:06 PM	The only thing that has not been addressed by this thread so far is the "end-goal applicabilitiy" of the cameras - meaning, a) can these images been easily mass-produced into a newspaper, and b) can they be trusted by the general public? The public has to trust these images as if they were the actual event that took place. So if I just use a basic illusion spell... I wouldn't really have to see the actual event would I? I could just scry it or, hell, make it up. The image binder has to work in such a way that ONLY the image I see will be projected onto the film. I like save vs DM's image binder and k1's idea of alchemical film. Other notes.. Do these magic items allow for zoom or filter effects (such as detect magic, true seeing, read magic, etc.?) -PowerPlay
cancerousmango 08-29-06, 11:18 PM	Why do we trust the New York Times' pictures? There was a big stink when Newsweek photoshopped this trashy couple on the front to make their teeth nicer. It's all about an implicit trust between publisher and reader.
Save-vs-DM 08-30-06, 08:40 AM	Why do we trust the New York Times' pictures? There was a big stink when Newsweek photoshopped this trashy couple on the front to make their teeth nicer. It's all about an implicit trust between publisher and reader. And right here, you've very much hit the nail on the head. This has been a huge argument against photography nearly since its inception. There have been several photographers known for doing things like this, such as Weegee. But I digress. Actually...I think I remember a spell that could make visual illusions on a flat plane...it might have even been prestidigitation. Could be something as simple as a special piece of parchment that makes that particular use of prestidigitation permanent. Then just play a bard or the like. Cheers, Save vs DM
Romulus LoneWolf 08-30-06, 09:49 PM	The great comic author/artist Fred Perry already came up with a great magical equivalent of the camera.. The Rune Artist (http://ne.tsunami-art.com/view.aspx?Rec=23): Rune Artists are entertainers whose medium is the Jade equivalent to television! A magic canvas can instantly relay it's composition to magic frames across the realm. The artists paint with brushes that change the color of the paint with just a thought. (Though some artists prefer to have paints of different color available anyway.)
Sereno 08-31-06, 10:09 AM	It is important to remember that Eberron is intended to be ideal for Noir, which means black and white. I don't think colour pictures are appropriate to the genre. You may disagree and not be wrong. I don't disagree at all. I think black and white is the only way to go for an Eberron 'camera'. I also like the idea of "storing" the image in a dragonshard; it works with the whole 'binding' concept inherent in dragonshard technology. In my version of the Eberron camera, the flashbulb, in an old-time camera, would be the dragonshard, and it would actually serve as the film. The flash would actually from from the box (Flare works well enough) and the image would be captured by the 'shard. I picture an Eberron photojournalists snapping pictures and replacing the 'shards the way reporters used to replace their flash bulbs. Transfering the image out of the 'shard would require a separate process involving something similar to a darkroom and other magical/alchemical equipment to "print" the picture. Chances are pretty good that Eberron has offset/moveable-type printing (probably backed with some sort of magic) so "printing" an image onto a metal or wooden printing plate makes inclusion of black and white "photos" possible in print mediums.
Kreistor1 08-31-06, 10:38 AM	Do these magic items allow for zoom or filter effects (such as detect magic, true seeing, read magic, etc.?) That would be up to mango. My system certainly can do zoom and filters (colour filters, that is, though I'd still see the result as B&W). But I don't think the public should be allowed access to Detect Magic, True Seeing, Read Magic, and other "proofs". I think there should be a certain amount of unprovability to any story. We don't get radar, sonar, or other sense images, so I don't think that it would be appropriate to extend the detection spells to cameras. Especially not True Seeing. That can reveal a Rakshasa who has worked his way into public position. I personally don't want anyone to be able to "prove" someone is a Rakshasa to other people without a direct confrontation.
yossarius 08-31-06, 05:31 PM	I am surprised by the responses against this idea, as photography was arguably one of the catalysts that founded the pulp noir style. Look at those old photos from the 1920s and 30s: it's hard to imagine film noir movies in color, or even less grainy black & white. Also, if this character has a magic version of a camera, certainly others do too. Early photographers were EXTREMELY competative to get THE PHOTO. They had to be, since early cameras could only take a single picture. It wasn't at all uncommon for them to roughly nudge each other just as they were taking the picture, in hopes of ruining the other reporter's photo. Likewise, early photographers weren't just reporters; they had to be athletes too. The camera and all of its accompanying equipment weighted as much as 100 pounds or more. It would be a shame if you gave this character a 1 pound wand to do the same function.
Edymnion 08-31-06, 06:37 PM	There was an article in the Dragon Magazine some time ago about modern equipment (internet maps, pda, etc) replicated with magic.And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I won't touch Dragon Magazine with a 10 foot pole.
Gnome Gninja 08-31-06, 06:43 PM	There is such a thing as a camcorder... its called a Gnome Illusionist under a Zone of Truth with a good memory. This is exactly the kind of thing that The Trust is here to prevent. Do you have any idea what We do to gnomes who allow themselves to get into this predicament? No. ...And you never will.
Romulus LoneWolf 08-31-06, 08:04 PM	And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I won't touch Dragon Magazine with a 10 foot pole. It's not so bad, actually. They only copy the functions of modern items, but the flavor of the items is definetly fantasy, and thus perfect for Eberron. The camera equivalent, the Memory Crystals, could be an invention of House Phiarlann..
Siran Dunmorgan 08-31-06, 08:30 PM	It's not so bad, actually. They only copy the functions of modern items, but the flavor of the items is definetly fantasy, and thus perfect for Eberron. The camera equivalent, the Memory Crystals, could be an invention of House Phiarlann..Absolutely. Memory crystals that anyone can use, but that require a bearer of the Mark of Shadow to manufacture. Not quite a dragonmark focus item, but still not something that gives up the House monopoly on imaging devices. For what it's worth, if we're looking at characters in the rôle of reporters, it seems hard to dispute House Phiarlan as the leader in the field: they have had a reputation for accurate reporting since before the ancestors of the gnomes climbed down from the trees. [1] —Siran Dunmorgan [1] Well, to hear the hobgoblins tell it.