Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bobitron 02-25-05, 04:22 PM	Hello everyone! I hope to get some input on a new campaign I am running as a play-by-post over at EN World. I'll start with links to the various threads. In Character (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=121439) Out of Character (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=120453) Characters (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=121438) The characters play members of a secret sect within the Church of the Silver Flame. The sect, known as the Lodge of Glory, is a puritanical organization organized by a small group of cardinals known as the Faithful. Here's the background material I posted to introduce the campaign. Background: Formed by Venerable Cardinal Kora Radiante at the height of the inquisition against the were-creatures that stained Khorvaire, the Lodge of Glory is a secret organization buried deep within the hierarchy of the Church of the Silver Flame. Radiante was a zealous opponent of evil, and felt that more needed to be done to combat the influence of the various evils upon the good people of the world. She was strongly supportive of the crusade against were-kind, and was criticized by the other cardinals for her strong prejudices against shifters. Cardinal Radiante was an advocate of the worst aspects of the crusade, seeking the destruction of all forms of were-kind, regardless of history or morality. She formed the Lodge of Glory to further her goals by circumventing the watchful eyes of the Keeper of the Flame, who, towards the end of the conflict, was beginning to steer the Church along a more moderate path. Radiante formed an elite cadre of religious adherents to fight evil, whatever the cost. She felt that the ends justified the means, and that evil must be rooted out, even if that meant sacrifice of individual rights and welfare. The Lodge has been responsible for some of the vilest acts ever committed in the name of the Flame in its pursuit of its goals. They have destroyed entire towns to kill a single creature hiding amongst the population, performed torturous acts upon hundreds of victims, and many other atrocities more suited to the evil they fought than the champions of good they claim to be. Pressure from the Council and the Keeper of the Flame eventually weighed heavy on Radiante, and the Lodge was officially disbanded just before the start of the Last War. Radiante died soon after. The Lodge of Glory no longer exists. All official records of its acts were sealed, and the majority of its members retired, with a few responsible for the most corrupt and vile acts tried in secrecy. The Council of Cardinals itself has little knowledge of the continued existence of the Lodge of Glory. A group of cardinals calling themselves the Faithful have resurrected the ideals of the Lodge of Glory. They have been slowly recruiting members from within the Church to serve in the Lodge, and preparing its members for action. They call upon the Lodge for issues that require absolute discretion and the complete ignorance of the other cardinals and the Keeper of the Flame. The members of the Faithful have kept their identity hidden from the Council and the members of the Lodge of Glory, and lead from the shadows. When a mission is entrusted to the Lodge, the utmost secrecy is to be upheld. If the members of the Faithful or the Lodge of Glory were to ever be revealed, the group would surely be disbanded once again. Mission: The Lodge is most often called upon by the Faithful to take on issues which the Keeper of the Flame or even the Council is judged to be ‘weak’ or ‘indecisive’. The Faithful feel that evil must be destroyed regardless of the cost. Common tasks include finding covens of infernalists, packs of were-kind, possessing demons hiding within the population, and acting as a secret inquisition within the Church, seeking out those who attempt to destroy the Church from within. Composition: The Faithful hunt for potential members of the Lodge within the Church. They look for people who are devout traditionalists, with a faith strong enough to smother evil’s dark flames. A penchant for intrigue and undercover activity is desirable, as well as combat experience and the willingness to take the fight to evil. The Lodge is made up of 48 members at any given time, although the turnover has been brutal. Many of the Lodge’s missions since its resurrection have been dangerous, and the attrition has been extreme. The Faithful are continuously looking for new members to complete the Lodge. The Lodge is divided into six person factions, which act independently of each other. Two factions have never worked together, as the risk of discovery is regarded as too great. The members of each faction are locked into that faction for life, and are replaced with new recruits rather than veterans from other factions. Each faction effectively functions as an independent cell, with no knowledge of other members or missions. A faction consists of a leader, known as the Pious. Normally, a second is appointed, named the Seneschal. The Pious is given the right to choose his Seneschal. The other four members are equal in rank, and are known as Purifiers. Factions vary tremendously in their makeup, but most are built around flexibility. A faction lacking an expert in the arcane or stealthy infiltration rarely survives to complete its mission. Each faction normally contains an inquisitor to ensure that the members do not cross the fine line between doing what is necessary to defeat evil, and becoming evil. The first adventure, underway as I type this in the In Character thread, involves a member of the Church who has uncovered the renewed Lodge and means to condem it at the next meeting of the Council of Cardinals. Our heroes are sent to convince the cleric to keep the secret of the Lodge a secret or remove the threat to the Lodge by any means. The reason I am here is to plumb for advice from some veteran players in Eberron and plot hooks for future adventures to add to my plans. This is my first attempt to DM in the excellent setting, and I really want the campaign to come to life. I would really appreciate your input on this, folks. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Bobitron 02-27-05, 09:26 AM	Hmmm. Almost fifty views and not a single comment? Did I include too much information? :confused:
Saurenda 02-27-05, 09:46 AM	It's not that, it's a matter of the premise for me. Here you have something in common with all the players, but at what cost did you do this? Here you have the players members of the silver flame church, something they all have in common? Thats fine. But you also have them bound to a completely secret organization that has full control of thier actions. How exactly do they adventure, or go off on missions? If this wasn't the unanimous decision of all the players it feels like a ver bad case of railroading. At what point was it dependent that they all be members of the silver flame church or members of this organization to interact with it and complete the story line you have in mind? Who exactly stops a terrorist organization like these zealots in Eberron? Do they people take into account that they that the players are superior to normal followers in teh reguards that sending them out on such missions tends to prove undesierable results? What happens when a player so much as flinches and lets a good werebeing go or decides it's not in the church's interests to do a missions to the letter? Doesn't sound like a lot of room for fun or error here. If I have misunderstood your explination I apologize, but having all your players as members of these organizations doesn't seem to be providing any useful service, or something the chruch hasn't been willing to publicly do itself. I don't see the need for such a terrorist organization to exsist within the silver flame church when the church itself is willing to accomplish these goals and see nothing as trivial itself. This lodge goes through a lot of secrecy for somethings everyone knows the flame does anyway. Should the lodge of glory be concerned more with Karnath, and destroying thier means for producing negatively charged undead? Why was Karnath not mentioned in thier purpose? Do they not see the nieghboring country as a threat to the faithful?
Taurren 02-27-05, 11:58 AM	Bobitron, I love your idea's for the Lodge, and if you dont mind I'll be using them for the main antagonists in an upcoming story for my players. :w00t: My thoughts on the Lodge as the motivation for the PC's to gather together are very similar to Saurenda. Unless the party will end up turning against the Lodge and fighting them from within, I see alot of frustrated players in your games future. Good job on the background and good luck with the game.
Cloud Divider 02-27-05, 01:14 PM	It's not that, it's a matter of the premise for me. Here you have something in common with all the players, but at what cost did you do this? Here you have the players members of the silver flame church, something they all have in common? Thats fine. But you also have them bound to a completely secret organization that has full control of thier actions. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the secret organization has full control of their actions. In many ways, it'd be pretty similar to running a Citadel Elite or Dark Lanterns campaign in Breland (or an FBI, CIA, or "special operations" campaign in a modern setting). Yes, you have an organization structure larger than you. You take orders from a boss ("Your mission, should you choose to accept it..."). The boss will be not so happy if you fail the mission. But that's really only a slightly different take on the typical Fantasy Adventuring Party campaign structure ("We wait in the bar until a Mysterious Stranger appears with a map to some ruins and an offer of gold in exchange for finding something there and bringing it back.") The difference is really only that you get your orders from the same guy, and it's in an office, rather than a tavern. If you return from the Cavern of Endless Peril without the Wonderous World-Shattering Widget, the Mysterious Stranger will likely be very disappointed. How exactly do they adventure, or go off on missions? Well, for one, they probably don't "adventure" in the standard way (ie, randomly wander around the countryside righting wrongs and killing kobolds). But they'll certainly have missions. The original poster (OP) listed the first one: "A cardinal outside of this organization has learned of us, and intends on exposing us to the leadership of the Church. We cannot allow this to happen. Your team has been assigned to 'influence' him, and convince him to maintain our secrecy. Use any means necessary, though assassination is to be the option of last resort - Cardinal Foozuts' mysterious demise would bring more unwanted attention." If this wasn't the unanimous decision of all the players it feels like a ver bad case of railroading. At what point was it dependent that they all be members of the silver flame church or members of this organization to interact with it and complete the story line you have in mind? I don't necessarily see it as railroading - a boundary condition, yes. Not not railroading in the conventional context ("you can do this, and exactly this"). It's a campaign gimmick, and that's all. It'd be like saying "All of your PC's must have served together in the Cyran Army during the Last War." Sure, it limits your options - but it also gives you a tighter campaign focus. It's essentially similar to my Eberron campaign gimmick - the PC's are members of an independent intelligence operation that an old spy set up prior to his demise to try and stop the Next War. The OP's gimmick is a little darker, and more antiheroic. It's similar to running a mafioso campaign, really. Except instead of "Sammy the Slug," the PCs work for "Cardinal Samarus". If the PC's are kosher with it, I don't see any issues, really. Who exactly stops a terrorist organization like these zealots in Eberron? Other PC-class organizations? This is essentially an "Evil" Eberron campaign - so instead of fighting the Lord of Blades or the Blood of Vol, the PC's are instead having to deal with Breland's Dark Lanterns and the Citadel Elite (or similar Thranish organizations). Do they people take into account that they that the players are superior to normal followers in teh reguards that sending them out on such missions tends to prove undesierable results? That can be handled in backstory - the PC's may have (historically) been quite loyal agents of the Lodge. But it's all too easy to add in something that would cause a conflict of interest RIGHT at the start of the campaign. To steal some Forge terminology, it'd be throwing in a Kicker. For instance, maybe one PC's sister/mother/brother/girlfriend/spouse got infected with lycanthropy? What would they do? The campaign focus would then turn into something potentially very much like say, Equilibrium. Actually, Equilibrium's probably an EXCELLENT example of what you could do with such a campaign concept. Preston (Bale's character) is a member of an elite organization that are ultimately the bad guys. He has an incident occur (his partner being a Sense Offender, coupled with "accidentally" missing a dose of the emotion-inhibiting drug), and off the movie goes on Bale's character Fighting the System (and ultimately bringing it down). I'm not sure if that's the original poster's plan for the campaign or not, but that could certainly be quite interesting to play, in my opinion. What happens when a player so much as flinches and lets a good werebeing go or decides it's not in the church's interests to do a missions to the letter? Doesn't sound like a lot of room for fun or error here. Well, let's look to Equilibrium again for some answers. Preston rescues a dog (and hides it, and eventually tries to set it free), but gets busted by the police. He ends up killing them all and has to cover it up. Preston is forced into a shell game with the Tetragrammaton Clerics and the government - he puts on the "Loyal Enforcer" face, while simultaneously acting against them. So there's LOTS of room for error - it will just require damage control by the PCs. Perfectly acceptable for a heavy espionage/politics style game. If I have misunderstood your explination I apologize, but having all your players as members of these organizations doesn't seem to be providing any useful service, or something the chruch hasn't been willing to publicly do itself. As the OP said, the Silver Flame has become relatively moderate in recent history (in his Eberron; mine as well). That's not to say there still aren't subfactions that are much more extremist in their views. The Lodge isn't an official arm of the Silver Flame. It's a product of a single person's personal crusade... I don't see the need for such a terrorist organization to exsist within the silver flame church when the church itself is willing to accomplish these goals and see nothing as trivial itself. This lodge goes through a lot of secrecy for somethings everyone knows the flame does anyway. The Lodge may still raze and torture entire towns in order to hunt down fiends and lycanthropes. The Silver Flame is pretty openly against that kind of extremism these days - I'd even suggest that they may even excommunicate (publically) churchmembers that do that kind of stuff. Even if it was openly acceptable 50-100 years ago (whenever the purge was). Should the lodge of glory be concerned more with Karnath, and destroying thier means for producing negatively charged undead? Why was Karnath not mentioned in thier purpose? Do they not see the nieghboring country as a threat to the faithful? I'd suggest that this ties more specifically to the Lodge's sponsor. They personally have something against Lycanthropes and other fiends. Undead, they don't care quite so much (while they'd be higher priority than say, goblinoids, they're a distant third to Lycanthropes and Rakshasa). The reasons for this personal crusade could range from the straightforward (he really has a hate-on for lycanthropes), to something rather more nefarious (he is a lycanthrope or in league with the Rakshasa, and organizing such an extremist/terrorist organization within the Church, even unofficially, provides a reason to not suspect him as a Lycanthrope or fiend, a means to weaken the Church, and a weapon to use against Lycanthrope or Rakshasa competition/threats.
Bobitron 02-27-05, 03:41 PM	Thanks for the replies! I'll try to address some points raised... Saurenda, Cloud Divider hit your issues just about on the button. While the characters compose a faction within the Lodge, they are each still individuals, prized and recruited for their resourcefulness and ability to think on their own. Like Cloud said, in my campaign, the Church, especially under Jaela Daran, has been transitioning to a more moderate approach towards a more moderate approach towards dealing with those they see as threats. While the Council of Cardinals would most certainly expect the use of some more extreme actions in the pursuit of a pack of were-kind or evil undead, in general, the ultra-violent, 'kill first, ask questions later' attitudes of the past are frowned upon. As Cloud mentioned, this really isn't any different than playing characters in any organization that has direct control, such as a Citadel Elite or FBI D20 Modern game. They will not be going on traditional D&D adventures, but will be assigned tasks more in the vein of 'missions' for the Faithful, the group of cardinals that secretly supports the Lodge. I don't expect the players will object, as I recruited them with this exact role in mind. As for Karnath, I expect there will be some serious head-butting with members of that nation to come. The Lodge exists to tackle issues head-on that the Council is not willing to. The Faithful feel that the time for soft talk and negotiation with those who are opposing the Church is past. If I decide that the Council and Jaela Daran's position on an issue is wishy-washy or indecisive, it's fair game. Taurren, I'm glad you like the idea, even if our characters might end up on opposite sides. ;) Feel free to grab antagonists from the 'Characters' link I posted above. At this point, it's up to the characters if they eventually turn on the Lodge and the Faithful. I can tell you this; some of the members of the faction are pretty hardcore Puritans. If one of them does turn, the others will be quick to take him down rather than risk the turncoat revealing the Lodge's renewed existence. Have no doubt, folks, that these are Good-aligned characters. To quote my introduction to the players... "One of the things I love about the Eberron setting is the way it treats alignment. I will treat alignment in a somewhat ambiguous manner in this campaign. The characters will be called on as judge, jury, and executioner, and a certain degree of moral ‘looseness’ will be needed. I am looking for characters with a sense of morality and zeal that embody the ideals that Radiante portrayed. Anyone without the conviction to carry out the will of the Faithful would probably not have been approached to join the Lodge. For example, a Lawful Good paladin who kills a helpless criminal rather than seek a court of justice would risk punishment and loss of his paladinhood in another campaign. In this campaign, the same action would be perfectly acceptable, if it furthered the goals of the mission." Cloud Divider, thanks for the response. I think you understand my purpose for the Lodge well. The Faithful have no ulterior motive beyond a frustration with the lack of decisive action in the ruling body of the Church (at this point, anyhow. :plotting: ) They view themselves as being above the petty politics and squabbling over doctrine that exists within the Council of Cardinals. The Faithful feel they are the only people who are willing to stand up and fight the battle that the remainder of the Church has lost the will to fight.