Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kinntar 12-01-05, 11:06 PM	Hey all, I am a fairly new dm running roleplay veterans. Surprisingly they like my style so i want to continue as it's fun for all of us. I run a 3.5 dnd eberron campaign with some alterations. I have really enjoyed running them through the shadows of the last war and the whispers of the vampire blade. I am about to embark on the grasp of the emerald claw. What my question is, can you all recomend good Cloak and dagger style campaign adventures that would not be too hard to import into a eberron campaign. I dont mind purchasing them as long as they are good. I am a bit tired of running seemingly exclusive dungeon crawls, and as I stated my veteran players have run almost every variation of that style. Of course they love hack and slash, but I desire a bit of a deeper roleplay feel. Any and all recomendations will be appreciated. Thanks
Straylight 12-01-05, 11:22 PM	The problem with published advantures is that they are generic. Intrigue and cloak&dagger stuff works best when there is a very personal involvement with the characters. Eventually, I just got so tired of looking for good modules that weren't either Monty Haul dungeon romps or Necromancer Games-style "OMG we r teh oldskoolz lolollo!!!1! odlskool pwnz ju nubs!" adventures that I just gave up completely and started writing my own stuff to run. It worked. Over the last two years, I've run two very successful and very memorable campaigns, and though one of them did kick off with the Canith Affair trilogy (Shadows, Whispers, Grasp), I let it spiral off in new directions and I think we came out better for it. In Eberron specifically, I think plots needs to be tied together much more closely, and the characters need to be built into the world moreso than, say, Faerun. Since published advantures are, by their nature, NOT closely tied with worlds or characters, I feel they perform poorly. So if you aren't afraid of a little work, my advice would be to toss a merry One Finger Salute at the endless processions of badly written modules that get pumped out and go write your own stuff. It's not as hard as it seems, and your players will thank you for it in the end.
Errant 12-02-05, 01:24 AM	What my question is, can you all recomend good Cloak and dagger style campaign adventures that would not be too hard to import into a eberron campaign. I dont mind purchasing them as long as they are good. I am a bit tired of running seemingly exclusive dungeon crawls, and as I stated my veteran players have run almost every variation of that style. Of course they love hack and slash, but I desire a bit of a deeper roleplay feel. I'd love to find some good cloak and dagger style adventures myself. Unfortunately, if you're looking for more than dungeon crawls I think Straylight may be right, you'll have to write them yourself. If you're anything like me though, blessed with a great appreciation for intrigue but very little gift for creating it, it might not be as easy as he makes it sound. :(
Kinntar 12-02-05, 03:11 AM	You both hit it exactly on the head. I totally want the personal feel that a self created adventure would do, but I lack the creativity to produce it. Another huge obstacle is, as I mentioned before, I am relatively new to DMing, while all my players have 10 plus years in not only DnD, but Gurps, Rolemaster, Original DnD, and probably more than I know of. The nice thing is my players have liked what I have done so far, and they are hankering for my next adventure. I took the Eberron world but made it a low Magic world. I used the Catastrophe at the mournhold as my reasoning for it. I have barely touched the different houses and all the political intrigue that could come from it but I don't know how to implement it. My players are very much the Hack and Slash style players. Worse yet, they are so into their S.O.P. that most of the standard ambushes/traps won't work unless I ramrod them into it. (I have one player, that no matter what class he picks always carries 2 short spears, one main melee weapon and one back up weapon.) They always camp with a fire going, and dried brush on the outer ring incase they need to light it up to see whats coming. They will never split up a group even it it would make searching an area more efficient. A dungeon crawl turns into a slow process of prodding the floor/walls/cieling with a pole to find any traps/secret passages, and I don't even use traps like that. Basically what I am saying is they have an answer for anything that has ever been thrown at them, and I am to new to know a good way of beating their S.O.P. without it seeming like a dm ramrod to them. So, after all that explanation, is there any of you fellow dm's out there that could help me out by giving me great plot hooks/ideas that I could mold into my campaign. My players do like my campaign, but I want to keep it that way so it is fresh and fun for all of us.
maollelujah 12-02-05, 03:57 AM	Here is an idea dealing with the Emerald Claw: The Emerald Claw plan to kidnap Carianna ir'Tain, who is traveling to Wroat via carriage to visit Haydith ir'Wynarn. The two became friends recently when Haydith visited Sharn. In a small village that is one day's travel to Wroat, the Emerald Claw launch an audacious strike. The village has an abnormal amount of Inns in it as it is the last stop til Wroat and is a way station for caravans. Set it up so the PCs have chances to watch people watching them, when actually they are watching Carianna's travel group. Carianna is staying at an expensive fine inn, best and largest in the village, after a night in the bar, she can even speak to the PCs. Once she retires, in sweeps the Emerald Claw in two groups. One rushes up stairs to capture Carianna, the other protects the stairs trying to stop access to the stairs. Once they grap her, the group at the stairs rush out heading south. The group that captured her, sneaks out the window to a group of horsemen waiting in the alley way. The Horsemen flee north to the bridge at the end of town. There is another group of Undead ready to hold off the PCs will the group splits up again. Several sneak off down to awaiting boat below (with the real Carianna), this group is not actually seen, but they think they catch a glimpse of a dark object floating away. The horsemen eventually ride off with the leader of the mission (a changeling who is posing as Carianna) north. The group in the boat whisk the real Carianna to a secret location holding her captive. The horsemen and the fake Carianna and attempt to escape, but unbeknowst to the horsemen, they are to be captured and killed, allowing the fake Carianna replace the real one at court. With their fake Carianna at court, the Emerald Claw then plans to replace the King... while the PCs job is to find out about the plot and derail it... They can be enticed by a reward offered by the ir'Tain family. If you like the idea I can continue...
Straylight 12-02-05, 04:25 AM	I totally want the personal feel that a self created adventure would do, but I lack the creativity to produce it. Another huge obstacle is, as I mentioned before, I am relatively new to DMing, while all my players have 10 plus years in not only DnD, but Gurps, Rolemaster, Original DnD, and probably more than I know of. Ditto with the group I started with. My first time DMing was my third time playing, and I started doing it because frankly I thought I could do a better job than their usual GM. (Turns out I was right, and I've been the primary DM for four years and five different groups, but that's not my point.) As for creativity... that's easy. There's a quote about performers that rings true here as well: "good actors imitate, great ones STEAL." In other words, don't hesitate to take characters, plots, stories and other juicy bits from elsewhere and twist them to your own needs. Just be sure to twist them enough that your players don't pick up on your source material unless you're intentionally out to parody something or pay homage to something. Example: I recently finished up a campaign that I drew heavily from the plot of Half-Life 2 for. I even used the G-Man's opening and closing dialogue verbatim. But, while I kept the rough plot intact, I twisted it enough that none of my players figured it out. Original? Eh, not really. Fun? You betcha. So if you're lacking for inspiration, look around you. Chances are there's an idea there somewhere. (And if you ever want some help with that, feel free to drop me a PM. I dunno how much help I'll be, but people tell me I'm good at the creative thing.) ...Oh, and as for getting them to break SOP: never give them the chance to establish it. Make them run for dear life from a giant boulder or a ****** off Warforged Titan, rain on their campfire, spook them with movement in the shadows at the edge of vision but have them find nothing. Smash their poles, sunder their weapons; use traps, avalanches and ambushes to forcibly split them up. Have their enemies adapt to their tactics: if they always have the Rogue on point, make the first spell something that requires a Will Save; if they rely on magical recon to know what's coming, have their enemy scry trap every book, doorknob, window, mirror and torch. Throw things at them they've never seen before. I ambushed a party of 5 12th level characters with a pair of CR 10 Kolyarut Inevitables, and nealy got a TPK. A level later, I attacked the same party with a trio of Cerebreliths (XPH) and almost got them all killed again. D you use a lot of Undead? Fill an entire dungeon with Abberations. Use a lot of monstrous humanoids? Use nothing but Constructs. Have enemy spellcasters toss Dispels, counterspells, debuffs, curses and the occasional Antimagic Zone. Dimension Anchor the Sorcerer, Feeblemind the Wizard, Ego Whip the Cleric. Keep them off-guard and on their toes. Have their opponents come prepared to counter their SOP. Force them to move, set time limits, delay traps, or set fights in places where they have to watch out for something other than their own hides. It'll work wonders for the game, trust me.
Delgar 12-02-05, 11:06 AM	Tips for Designing your own modules: - Look at what their enjoying and give them more of it. - Always make it personal, the more personal the better. It doesn't always have to be bad, it can be good, but tragedy will usually lead the group somewhere. - Always give the players complete freedom to do whatever they want, never EVER, EVER make them feel like they are riding a train (ala Living Greyhawk). This is the most beautiful thing about Home games. - Throw modules in the garbage, when you run a module players tend to treat it like a module (ie Okay lets go to room 1 and then room 2, etc). Before you trash them feel free to steal ideas from them. - Listen to your players, this is the best thing. Perhaps your players get attacked by a group of people and they begin to get paranoid that Faction X is out to get them. However, this was just some random attack that you planned. Hell roll with it, make faction X out to get them. How cool is it when you players uncover your plot, even when you don't have one. - Tie things together. This is the coolest thing ever. This requires the most planning, but with a little work your players will be amazed. What is cooler than finding out that something some small little clue in your first session ties together with something months even years later. - Don't stat everything, who cares if something has 10 hit points or 12, not really a big difference. If your players do something unexpected great, roll with it you'll all have a blast doing something that the players want. Be creative, make it up as you go. You don't know the stats for the thing they are fighting. Who cares make it up. Want to make new creatures, piece of cake. Take any creature from the monster manual, change it's description, voilla you now have a new creature. Sure it has the same stats as a troll, but because you've changed it's apperance the players now don't really know what's it's weaknesses are. That they will have to figure out the hard way. :) - As far as running the game goes, the best thing I ever did was I used what I like to call the PIG. What it was basically a container in the center of the table and once the game started any talk out of character (unless it was to ask a question or for clarification), such as non-incharacter jokes, politics, things that happened in so in so's campaign etc, or any metagaming (okay guys this creature this thing should only have like 30 hit points we can take it) or any telling other players what to do out of character, resulted in them paying a quarter into the pig. This went for me as well as the DM. What this did was keep the game on track and kept all the sidetracking stuff to a minimum and it really kept the players focused on the game. Now, I know that laughing and joking around during a game is fun and the thing is, you REALLY had to decide whether you're joke was worth a quarter, and if the comeback was worth a quarter. It really helped the game along, I highly reccommend it. The funny thing is the first session I introduced it, I think we ended up with around 25 bucks in the pot, which then I spent on snacks for the next session (the session was 8 or so hours long). I'm not sure if any of this is helpful at all, but there you go.
Chiyo 12-02-05, 11:26 AM	- As far as running the game goes, the best thing I ever did was I used what I like to call the PIG. What it was basically a container in the center of the table and once the game started any talk out of character (unless it was to ask a question or for clarification), such as non-incharacter jokes, politics, things that happened in so in so's campaign etc, or any metagaming (okay guys this creature this thing should only have like 30 hit points we can take it) or any telling other players what to do out of character, resulted in them paying a quarter into the pig. This went for me as well as the DM. What this did was keep the game on track and kept all the sidetracking stuff to a minimum and it really kept the players focused on the game. Now, I know that laughing and joking around during a game is fun and the thing is, you REALLY had to decide whether you're joke was worth a quarter, and if the comeback was worth a quarter. It really helped the game along, I highly reccommend it. The funny thing is the first session I introduced it, I think we ended up with around 25 bucks in the pot, which then I spent on snacks for the next session (the session was 8 or so hours long). I'd take that advice VERY VERY carefully. For some groups, it'll totally ruin it. My group has a few people that care as much about the extra stuff that they care about the game. We do get sidetracked and sometimes it bothers me but it's also part of everyone having fun. It enforces staying in-character but some players will feel that it's too much bossing people around. I prefer positive reinforcement rather than negative one so personally I give rewards for roleplaying and in-character stuff rather than penalize out of character stuff. Anything from 5 to 30% extra XP for roleplaying. It does create motivation for the more roleplay-oriented players and it also creates a dynamic with the less roleplay motivated players following in on some of the roleplay initiated by others. It's all about what's more fun for your group. Some things work with a group and some don't.
Delgar 12-02-05, 11:35 AM	Oh I forgot one other thing that I totally abandon when I DM. XP. Forget XP. Stop counting the number of creatures they kill and challenges they face. Level your players when they want to level. Or give a set amount of XP per session. Plus when you give out differing amounts of XP to players some players find it unjustified. I find that it's fair just to give the group the same ammount of xp per session. Players that get less XP than another player will feel robbed, maybe they aren't as good a role-player as the other person, but maybe they really tried, and instead they got 30 percent less XP. Next time they'll be less likely to try. It's all about the fun. Whatever works. Delgar
Tarionz_Cousin 12-06-05, 11:40 PM	It's all about the fun. Whatever works. Delgar Yeah, this is true. I agree with almost everything said here. However, how much does it help a brand-new DM to say "Make it all up yourself"? Some decent modules are out there that might help you with some ideas and design elements for your own adventures. Monte Cook's Banewarrens springs to mind. It has plenty of monsters to fight, but also has a plot that revolves around various factions' actions. I also enjoyed the 1st Edition AD&D modules Bone Hill and The Assassin's Knot. They both are set in rural villages and involve a lot of mystery-solving and not as much hack and slash. Planescape had a few interesting modules as well. Tales from the Infinite Staircase is a particularly interesting design for a module, being two storylines that progress simultaneously. Of course, none of these are really cloak and dagger. To get that stuff, you really need to get personal, as Delgar said. Work on the PC's backgrounds and then work some of that stuff into the game.
LazarusX 12-07-05, 01:23 AM	From my experience, most cloak&dagger and intrigue adventures need to be very improvised. As much preparation as you can do--the party will end up throwing a wrench into the plans at some point. So, if you're not the best writer, not to worry! Make a really good outline, decide if/when Random Encounter tables should be used, make up all stats for prominent NPC's in the adventure, and then just do a general synopsis of the adventure. The most important thing is to make sure that *in your head* you have everything planned out and prepared. Do this for one adventure--I think you'll find it just as exciting and fun for you as it is for your players.
Delgar 12-07-05, 10:31 AM	I'd take that advice VERY VERY carefully. For some groups, it'll totally ruin it. My group has a few people that care as much about the extra stuff that they care about the game. We do get sidetracked and sometimes it bothers me but it's also part of everyone having fun. It enforces staying in-character but some players will feel that it's too much bossing people around. I prefer positive reinforcement rather than negative one so personally I give rewards for roleplaying and in-character stuff rather than penalize out of character stuff. Anything from 5 to 30% extra XP for roleplaying. It does create motivation for the more roleplay-oriented players and it also creates a dynamic with the less roleplay motivated players following in on some of the roleplay initiated by others. It's all about what's more fun for your group. Some things work with a group and some don't. Like I said, I would be careful about doling out differing amounts of XP for roleplaying, because lets face it not everyone is an actor, and some peoples best roleplaying efforts are not as good as somes medicore efforts. Any time I've every seen people get more xp than someone else, it causes hurt feelings. Plus throw in the fact that your not recognizing some peoples best efforts they may just give up entirely. I understand that people like to have fun, and have out of game chat. I'm fine with that. What we usually do is have out of game chat before the session and once the session begins, then all out of game chat costs you a quarter. Like I said, it keeps the game focused, and more in game things happen and trust me it promotes a role-playing, problem solving environment. Plus make sure you have plenty of breaks for food and out of game chat. Usually once every couple of hours. That way people can get up stretch, go to the bathroom and then get back too it. Plus usually there is a lot of banter after the game, mostly poser talk, postulations about what is happening and who did what. It might not be for everyone, but I promise if you try it out you won't be dissapointed.
sh0 12-07-05, 12:27 PM	Oh I forgot one other thing that I totally abandon when I DM. XP. Forget XP. Stop counting the number of creatures they kill and challenges they face. Level your players when they want to level. Or give a set amount of XP per session. Plus when you give out differing amounts of XP to players some players find it unjustified. I find that it's fair just to give the group the same ammount of xp per session. Players that get less XP than another player will feel robbed, maybe they aren't as good a role-player as the other person, but maybe they really tried, and instead they got 30 percent less XP. Next time they'll be less likely to try. It's all about the fun. Whatever works. Delgar Bravo. I use this same method and in my opinion, makes the game much better and easier to enjoy for everyone all around.