Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pallin Rahl 03-29-07, 01:40 PM	As presented, the Lightning Reigns are keyed to be used by dragonmarked members of House Orien... and Wheels of Wind and Water are keyed to be used by dragonmarked members of House Lyrandar. Is this simply due to the business-side of things, where House Orien runs the Lightning Rails and House Lyrandar runs the air/sea transportation? ...or is there a deeper reason mentioned anywhere that suggests one House is more inclined to better control the elemental bound to a specific transportation task? Is there any reason that a Wheel of Wind couldn't be created to function when used by a character with the dimension door ability of the lesser Mark of Passage... to telepathically control the fire or air elemental bound to an airship? Just curious, as a PC in my campaign has recently picked up the Lesser Mark of Passage (dimension door) ...and this question might come up soon (due to some upcoming plot reasons). ;)
Cifer 03-29-07, 02:28 PM	Until now, it hasn't been done. It's questionable whether it would work and you most probably would need capable scientists to research and develop this conversion - oh, and you would need to hide the entire thing from Lyrandar, because they will want everyone dead who might break their monopoly on reliable airships.
The White Sorcerer 03-29-07, 03:21 PM	While travel is the bread and butter of the Mark of Passage, the Mark of Storm holds dominion over the realms of wind and water. If one could just build a focus item that allows the Mark of Passage to control airships, why couldn't they also create items that allow the Mark of Making to do the same? Or the Mark of Handling?
Nived 03-29-07, 03:42 PM	True but House O's Dragonmark allows them to Fly. Air Elementals power the Lightning Rails. Airships can also be powered by Air Elementals. House O knows how to make an item that makes controling Air Elementals easier. I don't think its beyond the realm of possibility to jury rig Lightning Reigns to control an airship. House L wouldn't be happy about it I can tell you that much.... but I can't see House Orien and Lyrander being 'best buddies' to begin with.
Pallin Rahl 03-29-07, 03:44 PM	While travel is the bread and butter of the Mark of Passage, the Mark of Storm holds dominion over the realms of wind and water. If one could just build a focus item that allows the Mark of Passage to control airships, why couldn't they also create items that allow the Mark of Making to do the same? Or the Mark of Handling? A valid question... why can't they? Note: I'm not arguing "for" or "against" here... I'm simply looking for the reasoning given in the books (that I could have missed). Yes, Lyrandar holds dominion over sky travel. ...and from a monopoly/business standpoint, they would indeed not like just anyone running around flying airships. That being said, airships can already be controlled by... well... anyone who can win a CHA check vs the elemental (that, as mentioned, has a +0 mod in doing so). ...or anyone who can cast Charm Monster. House Lyrandar can simply control the airships more reliably via their special items - i.e. the Wheel of Wind attached to the ship that lets them directly command the bound elemental. However, the same Air Elemental that can be bound to the Lightning Rail (which House Orien can directly command via Lightning Reigns) can just as easily have been bound to an Airship instead... why does the shape of the vessel change the ability of a magical item to control a bound elemental? ...why can't that Wheel be attuned to another dragonmark than Lyrandar - or at least specifically a dragonmark that can be used to grant flight (used by a House with already-existing magical-knowhow required to directly control bound elementals)? ...or why can't some Lightning Reigns be installed on an airship? Is there any mechanical or "plot"/background reason that it is not possible? ...or is it simply not done due to business / political reasons? --- (edited in) True but House O's Dragonmark allows them to Fly. Air Elementals power the Lightning Rails. Airships can also be powered by Air Elementals. House O knows how to make an item that makes controling Air Elementals easier. I don't think its beyond the realm of possibility to jury rig Lightning Reigns to control an airship. House L wouldn't be happy about it I can tell you that much.... but I can't see House Orien and Lyrander being 'best buddies' to begin with. Exactly what I was thinking...
Syltorian 03-29-07, 04:24 PM	True but House O's Dragonmark allows them to Fly. Air Elementals power the Lightning Rails. Airships can also be powered by Air Elementals. House O knows how to make an item that makes controling Air Elementals easier. I don't think its beyond the realm of possibility to jury rig Lightning Reigns to control an airship. House L wouldn't be happy about it I can tell you that much.... but I can't see House Orien and Lyrander being 'best buddies' to begin with. I had planned, for my campaign and just as a background drop, to exacerbate the relations between Orien and Lyrandar by having the latter find out that Orien and one of the Cannith factions were working on exactly that: an airship relying on the Overland Flight power, rather than Control Wind. Of course it has not been done before. Until about ten years ago, nobody had done an airship (except for the Sulatar, who control their Firesledges without dragonmarks). Yet now Lyrandar can do it. Personally, I feel that it is only a question of time until Orien manages this breakthrough (or rather, Cannith does, in exchange for Orien's help to one of the three factions that happens to be involved in this). It could also be a great idea for an adventure: either help Lyrandar sabotage these attempts, or help Orien defend against such actions. Perhaps even split Cannith further as one faction sides with Orien and one with Lyrandar.
DarthMidget 03-29-07, 07:24 PM	We know the Gnomes stole the idea of binding elementals from ancient Giant ruins in Xen'drik. We also know that the Giants did not have Dragonmarks. Thus there must have been some other mechanism that the Giants used to control the elementals. The most likely solution? The Houses are lying. There are very simple ways to control elementals without having a Dragonmark. That, however, does not help the Houses. What helps the Houses is the idea that only someone with a specific Dragonmark can pilot elemental-bound vessels. This further reinforces the Houses' special status. Now I don't actually think there is anything in the canon material that lays this view out. It's just a conspiracy theory that I find interesting.
maollelujah 03-30-07, 11:57 AM	Since Elemental Carts can be controlled by heirs of the House that own it and more than one house is said to possess them, I imagine that House Orien could create an Airship that uses similar magical means. It would probably have to be included in when the airship is created.
The Fireballed Mage 03-30-07, 12:25 PM	Is there any mechanical or "plot"/background reason that it is not possible? ...or is it simply not done due to business / political reasons? Because Dragonmarks are not your everyday, (relatively) understood magic. They're tied to the Dragonic Prophacy, they're tied to the basic core of the world, they're tied to themes, they're tied to things beyond your understanding. House Orien would love to command airships with the powers of their mark. It would be magnificent. In my campaigns they spend tens of thousands of gold pieces each year attacking this problem, trying to find a way to make an airship elemental bow down to their Mark. But (for the moment and perhaps forever), they have had no success. For all House Cannith says, magic is not perfectly understood. It has mysteries that remain unlockable, patterns that can not be comprehended, and secrets that are as yet unknown. The giants could bind elementals, control airships, and do other wonders... but the giants were taught magic directly by the dragons. Current mortal magic is nothing but the first paragraph in the mystic knowledge of the world. There are many things that you can not accomplish simply because you do not know enough. *** Out of game answer: Because it gives power to a relatively mechanically weak Dragonmark power (wind's favour), while not giving more power to a mechanically powerful mark (oveland flight).
Darth Syntax 03-30-07, 02:24 PM	The most likely solution? The Houses are lying. There are very simple ways to control elementals without having a Dragonmark. That, however, does not help the Houses. What helps the Houses is the idea that only someone with a specific Dragonmark can pilot elemental-bound vessels. This further reinforces the Houses' special status. Now I don't actually think there is anything in the canon material that lays this view out. It's just a conspiracy theory that I find interesting. I think that you're probably correct here, especially given that the giants of Xen'Drik and others had been making use of various "Dragonmarked" devices for centuries before the appeared on living beings. The Houses simply want to maintain their economic power and privlidge and so they have created their devices in such a way that it makes using them difficult without a mark. However, it should be possible to figure out a way around this propriatary catch and finally destroy the economic domination of the Houses.
davethebrave371 03-30-07, 02:28 PM	Because Dragonmarks are not your everyday, (relatively) understood magic. They're tied to the Dragonic Prophacy, they're tied to the basic core of the world, they're tied to themes, they're tied to things beyond your understanding. House Orien would love to command airships with the powers of their mark. It would be magnificent. In my campaigns they spend tens of thousands of gold pieces each year attacking this problem, trying to find a way to make an airship elemental bow down to their Mark. But (for the moment and perhaps forever), they have had no success. For all House Cannith says, magic is not perfectly understood. It has mysteries that remain unlockable, patterns that can not be comprehended, and secrets that are as yet unknown. The giants could bind elementals, control airships, and do other wonders... but the giants were taught magic directly by the dragons. Current mortal magic is nothing but the first paragraph in the mystic knowledge of the world. There are many things that you can not accomplish simply because you do not know enough. *** Out of game answer: Because it gives power to a relatively mechanically weak Dragonmark power (wind's favour), while not giving more power to a mechanically powerful mark (oveland flight). I am in complete agreement with this. In my own game, Orien and Lyrandar both try to out-maneouver each other, all the time, as regards elemental control. Cannith and Zilargan binders keep a firm lid on the binding/Mark control fusions and their secrets, and even if those secrets were leaked, it'd be discovered that even Cannith isn't sure why certain Mark items work only with certain Marks, and not others (though they have several theories).