Can artificers use high level infusion slots for low level ones, like Wiz and Sorcs? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can artificers use high level infusion slots for low level ones, like Wiz and Sorcs? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DyloniusFunk
11-07-05, 01:28 AM This is something that's been bugging me. Can an artificer do ana infusiuion by burning a spell slot of higher level than the level of the infusion. So say i'm out of 1st level infusions but still have some 2nd level ones. I need a Spell Storing so Ii use a 2nd level instead. Is this allowed?

My DM ruled it was cool, since it was basically the same thing Wizards and Sorcerors do. But there's nothing in the ECS to either support or oppose this. And i don't recall reading anything about it in the Errata i read either. It's a moot point right now since the campaign is over, but i'd like to knwo for the next Ebberon game i'm in. Thanks
Save-vs-DM
11-07-05, 02:10 AM Note that the ECS states that: "[Infusions] function just like spells and follow all the rules for spells."

Since the core books clearly allow you to use a higher level spot to cast a lower level spell, it follows that you could logically do the same exact thing with infusions.

It's well within the spirit of the rules and I think that it's also within the copes of the rules as written.

Cheers and happy infusing!
Save vs DM
Chiyo
11-07-05, 03:52 PM Yeah I agree with Save_vs_DM. It'd make sense to allow it considering the similarity between arcane/divine spell mechanics and infusions. All things being considered, I often think of infusions as sorcerer spells that could only be cast on items/constructs and start from sorcerer spell mechanics to determine what's allowed and what's not. Aside from meeting pre-requisites for crafting, the analogy works pretty well.

Alternatively, most often artificers alredy have access to a selection of metamagic feats and one can apply those spontaneously to infusions. That raises the spell level so it works the same and might even give some fringe benefits depending on metamagic feat. A good mix could be things like extend spell, empower spell, maximize spell, quicken/twin spell for respectively +1, +2, +3 and +4 spell levels which may be useful to apply on wands anyway. Downside to applying MM feats spontaneously on infusions is the increased casting time (standard action ->1 round, 1 round or more extended by another round). If that's an issue, then you can fall back on using wizard/sorcerer spell mechanics as you described.
Elderich
11-07-05, 05:35 PM I always thought the line "Not spells, but follow all the rules for spells" was just silly. If it walks and talks and quacks like a duck?

It would have been simpler to just say they are a new type of spell, named infusions.
Just another user
11-07-05, 07:06 PM I always thought the line "Not spells, but follow all the rules for spells" was just silly. If it walks and talks and quacks like a duck?

It would have been simpler to just say they are a new type of spell, named infusions.
If they are spells then you can apply metamagic feats and item costruction feats and metamagic rods and whatsnot and all sort of problems arise. (Scrolls of weapon augmentation, anyone?).
So, they are not spells they just use the same rules.
Zelin
11-07-05, 10:58 PM If they are spells then you can apply metamagic feats and item costruction feats and metamagic rods and whatsnot and all sort of problems arise. (Scrolls of weapon augmentation, anyone?).
So, they are not spells they just use the same rules.

From the errata:

"In the Infusions class feature, the first sentence of the eighth paragraph should read as follows: Like a spellcaster, an artificer can apply metamagic feats he knows to his infusions."

If I remember correctly there was a lot of discussion on scribe scroll but I don't remember what the consensus was... I think since the scrolls are neither arcane nor divine that anyone can make use of them with a UMD check but that wizards (and with Heroes of Horror, the Archivist) can't copy them.
Elderich
11-12-05, 01:07 PM If they are spells then you can apply metamagic feats and item costruction feats and metamagic rods and whatsnot and all sort of problems arise. (Scrolls of weapon augmentation, anyone?).
So, they are not spells they just use the same rules.In Magic of Eberron "you can apply metamagic feats and item costruction feats and metamagic rods and whatsnot". The Errata has been trumped by a published book. :confused: So you CAN actulay do these things. I am not sure about the problems that arise tho.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DyloniusFunk 11-07-05, 01:28 AM	This is something that's been bugging me. Can an artificer do ana infusiuion by burning a spell slot of higher level than the level of the infusion. So say i'm out of 1st level infusions but still have some 2nd level ones. I need a Spell Storing so Ii use a 2nd level instead. Is this allowed? My DM ruled it was cool, since it was basically the same thing Wizards and Sorcerors do. But there's nothing in the ECS to either support or oppose this. And i don't recall reading anything about it in the Errata i read either. It's a moot point right now since the campaign is over, but i'd like to knwo for the next Ebberon game i'm in. Thanks
Save-vs-DM 11-07-05, 02:10 AM	Note that the ECS states that: "[Infusions] function just like spells and follow all the rules for spells." Since the core books clearly allow you to use a higher level spot to cast a lower level spell, it follows that you could logically do the same exact thing with infusions. It's well within the spirit of the rules and I think that it's also within the copes of the rules as written. Cheers and happy infusing! Save vs DM
Chiyo 11-07-05, 03:52 PM	Yeah I agree with Save_vs_DM. It'd make sense to allow it considering the similarity between arcane/divine spell mechanics and infusions. All things being considered, I often think of infusions as sorcerer spells that could only be cast on items/constructs and start from sorcerer spell mechanics to determine what's allowed and what's not. Aside from meeting pre-requisites for crafting, the analogy works pretty well. Alternatively, most often artificers alredy have access to a selection of metamagic feats and one can apply those spontaneously to infusions. That raises the spell level so it works the same and might even give some fringe benefits depending on metamagic feat. A good mix could be things like extend spell, empower spell, maximize spell, quicken/twin spell for respectively +1, +2, +3 and +4 spell levels which may be useful to apply on wands anyway. Downside to applying MM feats spontaneously on infusions is the increased casting time (standard action ->1 round, 1 round or more extended by another round). If that's an issue, then you can fall back on using wizard/sorcerer spell mechanics as you described.
Elderich 11-07-05, 05:35 PM	I always thought the line "Not spells, but follow all the rules for spells" was just silly. If it walks and talks and quacks like a duck? It would have been simpler to just say they are a new type of spell, named infusions.
Just another user 11-07-05, 07:06 PM	I always thought the line "Not spells, but follow all the rules for spells" was just silly. If it walks and talks and quacks like a duck? It would have been simpler to just say they are a new type of spell, named infusions. If they are spells then you can apply metamagic feats and item costruction feats and metamagic rods and whatsnot and all sort of problems arise. (Scrolls of weapon augmentation, anyone?). So, they are not spells they just use the same rules.
Zelin 11-07-05, 10:58 PM	If they are spells then you can apply metamagic feats and item costruction feats and metamagic rods and whatsnot and all sort of problems arise. (Scrolls of weapon augmentation, anyone?). So, they are not spells they just use the same rules. From the errata: "In the Infusions class feature, the first sentence of the eighth paragraph should read as follows: Like a spellcaster, an artificer can apply metamagic feats he knows to his infusions." If I remember correctly there was a lot of discussion on scribe scroll but I don't remember what the consensus was... I think since the scrolls are neither arcane nor divine that anyone can make use of them with a UMD check but that wizards (and with Heroes of Horror, the Archivist) can't copy them.
Elderich 11-12-05, 01:07 PM	If they are spells then you can apply metamagic feats and item costruction feats and metamagic rods and whatsnot and all sort of problems arise. (Scrolls of weapon augmentation, anyone?). So, they are not spells they just use the same rules.In Magic of Eberron "you can apply metamagic feats and item costruction feats and metamagic rods and whatsnot". The Errata has been trumped by a published book. :confused: So you CAN actulay do these things. I am not sure about the problems that arise tho.