Catastrophic Failure of Logic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Catastrophic Failure of Logic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nomadicc
12-30-07, 08:01 PM * SPOILERS *

Sooo, I'm running "Grasp of the Emerald Claw", which by all estimates is a pretty cool adventure. I've added a lot of fluff on the front end in Sharn and Stormreach to give the party something to investigate after, rather than "go here, do this".

Anyway, I decided to use the alternate dire shark encounter, found on Bruce Cordell's (module author) webpage. That also seemed (and was) a really cool encounter... except for the CATASTROPHIC FAILURE OF LOGIC, which players seem to find faultlessly, all the time (unlike the obvious traps or clues you give them).

As a warning to future DMs, basically the failure is this. The sahuagin attempt to clog the elemental ring of the undersea ship with this special device called "draggers", thusly slowing the vehicle enough so the gargantuan dire shark can catch it.

Well, how are sahuagin supposed to create these specialized draggers to capture a vehicle that there are perhaps only a handful of, and whose existence is very secret?

My bad for not catching it, but... :rolleyes:

If you're going to use this alternate encounter, which was actually a lot of fun to run, I'd recommend coming up with a believable alternative.

(on a side note, the same argument could go against the nets in the printed encounter.. /shrug)
ArcTan
12-30-07, 08:10 PM Who says that draggers don't work on ordinary ships? Which sahuagin are known for attacking and plundering?
Toloran
12-30-07, 11:29 PM The Water Elemental ring that surround the submarine is likely similar to the ones used by the traditional Lyrandar elemental galleons. It is basically the same magic so I can't see why it wouldn't work.
Nomadicc
12-31-07, 09:08 AM Doh! Doh!

Both good points... I still think its a stretch that the sahuagin would be ambushing the undersea ship, but the means of their attack can be loosely explained.
Jabberwocky888
12-31-07, 09:29 AM Although I haven't read the adventure yet, I'd say that the GM can always have the smaller fish (cool with sahuagin :-) work for bigger ones. How can the PCs be so certain that the sahuagin (or their boss at least) didn't work for someone who was intersted in the ship and could provide some extra equipment to the bad guys? Make the Failure of Logic into Gap in the PCs' Knowledge.
korcheck
12-31-07, 10:15 AM Although I haven't read the adventure yet, I'd say that the GM can always have the smaller fish (cool with sahuagin :-) work for bigger ones. How can the PCs be so certain that the sahuagin (or their boss at least) didn't work for someone who was intersted in the ship and could provide some extra equipment to the bad guys? Make the Failure of Logic into Gap in the PCs' Knowledge.

I saw that english is not your native language and thought I would tell you congratulations on the fact that you seem to have a better grasp on the langauges dynamics and spelling than some of us natives do, so bravo.
Jabberwocky888
12-31-07, 12:09 PM korcheck: Wow (blushing), thank you! Well, I usually manage to express myself in English but I put that message to my signature in case I offended somebody unintentionally. It can happen, I can for example use a word which is considered rude without knowing it ... so, just to be safe :-)
Salla
01-02-08, 04:38 PM Doh! Doh!

Both good points... I still think its a stretch that the sahuagin would be ambushing the undersea ship, but the means of their attack can be loosely explained.

Actually, they may have been hiding intending to ambush any surface ship heading to Stormreach ... when they saw the undersea vessel coming, they simply went 'what the heck' and went for it. A boat's a boat, right? :D
ArcTan
01-02-08, 07:03 PM It wouldn't just be "What the heck?", it would be "OMG, a strange and potentially devastating new technology the surfacers could use to attack our underwater communities!"

If a bunch of sahuagin made a wheeled tank and started driving it around on land, do you think the humans would leave them alone?
davethebrave371
01-12-08, 04:52 PM Actually, if I remember correctly from PGtE, sahuagain have gigantic undersea cities and empires.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nomadicc 12-30-07, 08:01 PM	* SPOILERS * Sooo, I'm running "Grasp of the Emerald Claw", which by all estimates is a pretty cool adventure. I've added a lot of fluff on the front end in Sharn and Stormreach to give the party something to investigate after, rather than "go here, do this". Anyway, I decided to use the alternate dire shark encounter, found on Bruce Cordell's (module author) webpage. That also seemed (and was) a really cool encounter... except for the CATASTROPHIC FAILURE OF LOGIC, which players seem to find faultlessly, all the time (unlike the obvious traps or clues you give them). As a warning to future DMs, basically the failure is this. The sahuagin attempt to clog the elemental ring of the undersea ship with this special device called "draggers", thusly slowing the vehicle enough so the gargantuan dire shark can catch it. Well, how are sahuagin supposed to create these specialized draggers to capture a vehicle that there are perhaps only a handful of, and whose existence is very secret? My bad for not catching it, but... :rolleyes: If you're going to use this alternate encounter, which was actually a lot of fun to run, I'd recommend coming up with a believable alternative. (on a side note, the same argument could go against the nets in the printed encounter.. /shrug)
ArcTan 12-30-07, 08:10 PM	Who says that draggers don't work on ordinary ships? Which sahuagin are known for attacking and plundering?
Toloran 12-30-07, 11:29 PM	The Water Elemental ring that surround the submarine is likely similar to the ones used by the traditional Lyrandar elemental galleons. It is basically the same magic so I can't see why it wouldn't work.
Nomadicc 12-31-07, 09:08 AM	Doh! Doh! Both good points... I still think its a stretch that the sahuagin would be ambushing the undersea ship, but the means of their attack can be loosely explained.
Jabberwocky888 12-31-07, 09:29 AM	Although I haven't read the adventure yet, I'd say that the GM can always have the smaller fish (cool with sahuagin :-) work for bigger ones. How can the PCs be so certain that the sahuagin (or their boss at least) didn't work for someone who was intersted in the ship and could provide some extra equipment to the bad guys? Make the Failure of Logic into Gap in the PCs' Knowledge.
korcheck 12-31-07, 10:15 AM	Although I haven't read the adventure yet, I'd say that the GM can always have the smaller fish (cool with sahuagin :-) work for bigger ones. How can the PCs be so certain that the sahuagin (or their boss at least) didn't work for someone who was intersted in the ship and could provide some extra equipment to the bad guys? Make the Failure of Logic into Gap in the PCs' Knowledge. I saw that english is not your native language and thought I would tell you congratulations on the fact that you seem to have a better grasp on the langauges dynamics and spelling than some of us natives do, so bravo.
Jabberwocky888 12-31-07, 12:09 PM	korcheck: Wow (blushing), thank you! Well, I usually manage to express myself in English but I put that message to my signature in case I offended somebody unintentionally. It can happen, I can for example use a word which is considered rude without knowing it ... so, just to be safe :-)
Salla 01-02-08, 04:38 PM	Doh! Doh! Both good points... I still think its a stretch that the sahuagin would be ambushing the undersea ship, but the means of their attack can be loosely explained. Actually, they may have been hiding intending to ambush any surface ship heading to Stormreach ... when they saw the undersea vessel coming, they simply went 'what the heck' and went for it. A boat's a boat, right? :D
ArcTan 01-02-08, 07:03 PM	It wouldn't just be "What the heck?", it would be "OMG, a strange and potentially devastating new technology the surfacers could use to attack our underwater communities!" If a bunch of sahuagin made a wheeled tank and started driving it around on land, do you think the humans would leave them alone?
davethebrave371 01-12-08, 04:52 PM	Actually, if I remember correctly from PGtE, sahuagain have gigantic undersea cities and empires.