Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ch@pel 11-23-04, 06:26 PM	May contain SPOILERS!! (NO CHEATING JON! YES YOU!) Hi all. The group I'm DMing is playing through Whispers and they're just about to go into the ball at Trolanport and I'm wondering if anyone has a good way to catch Lucan alive? Subduing him shouldn't be too big a deal, but he'll obviously go gaseous as soon as he is pinned; so how can they capture him alive? They have an artificer, and I'm thinking he could research some kind of device to suck up the gas and trap Lucan, but I don't know if such a device exists. If not, I'll open up the floor to wild speculation about such an item. Now that I think about it, it sounds a LOT like the thing from Ghostbusters. Cool! Oh and I know that this isn't the end of the adventure, but this module seems a little railroady, and even though I think it's great; the PCs ought to have a real shot of catching him here. If they botch it, I'll continue gladly, but I have some other things going on with this, not presented in the module, so it's starting to get lengthy.
EscherEnigma 11-23-04, 06:32 PM	Well... there certainly are ways to catch a mist, but I suppose the real problem is will the players do it? Unless you plan on devising this device and then GIVING it to the players in a properly contrived way, then I don't really see how it matters if we can cook up something. On the other hand, if the players do come up withsomething themselves that sounds like it might work, then let it. I know, I know, not really constructive. I'll think about it some and post back if I come up wiht anything.
Targos 11-23-04, 07:17 PM	I had some PCs use a cube of force to catch a gaseous vampire once way back in 2E. It should still work in 3E.
DolArrah 11-23-04, 07:21 PM	Use a stake and put it through his heart. He won't die (or die again or something). Remove it when you get to the employer. He will come back. Put him on an island sorounded by holy water, were it rains holy water everywhere but the island. Give the employer a teleportation thing, then let him teleport to another close ilsand, with holy water. Expensive but. . . problem solved. Also, it can hold other undead minions. Make the water running (i.e. moving). Then, even with the damage he will die in the running water.
Black Bard 11-23-04, 09:07 PM	A well-placed wind wall can hold Lucan for some rounds... But to capture him??? Undead and creatures in gaseous form are not subject to subdual damage... I can't think of nothing useful, sorry... :P
EscherEnigma 11-23-04, 09:14 PM	hm... upon further reflection I don't think theres a way the players can easily stop Lucan from escaping with his Gaseous Form ability. If hes dropped to 0 or below he immediatly assumes it at which point they can't harm him. But since at that point he has to flee to his coffin for at least one hour... If they can drop him to low enough hitpoints in the ball room scene then he misses his flight! Since he has to go to his coffin at that point he can't go to the airship so unless his sister also escapes and brings his coffin to the ship then he misses it, and if she does do that he still doesn't get to play mind games with the dock workers. As for how to stop her from escaping... should be easy enough. I know thats not that helpful, but its all I could think of that doesn't require alot of resources that the players shouldn't have at this level.
Korhal IV 11-23-04, 09:35 PM	It's a second-level cleric spell called "Wind Wall", folks. Just make it circular, and in an interior environment he has no way to go. Pepper him with Magic Missiles and tell him to surrender. :D
EscherEnigma 11-23-04, 10:03 PM	wind wall can only stop him for a few rounds (1/round per level). Now... lets examine the cases real quick for when hes in gaseous form... Willingly in gaseous form: well, he can change back into humanoid form and then the wall poses no threat to him. He can use one of his various OTHER means of escape. Unwillingly in gaseous form, ie was reduced to 0 hp: well, even if you contain him for 1/round per level, its gonna drop and then hes loose again. You have him contained for a short time but you can't hurt him. If you have some other trap availible (such as the original ghost-buster trap idea) then now would be a good time to set it up for use, but unless you have another plan then all you're doing is delaying him. now, if you could maintain that wind wall for 2 hours after you've reduced him to 0 then you can destroy him... but thats alot of castings. fourth level cleric, so four rounds per casting, and an hour is 60 rounds, so 120 rounds needed... cast it 30 times it looks like? So... theres your trap! reduce him to zero hp, then crack out your wand of wind wall and use up quite a few of the charges to pin him for two hours, and then near the end of it slide a coffin into inside the windwall. He'll probably use it to avoid complete destruction, and you now have your vampire in a box. Just pop the lid and stake him and you're set! And of course, if you don't have a coffin handy, well, you're in a city and you have 2 hours, you can probably get one. The problem is having a wand of wind wall ahead of time. And reducing him to zero hp. Becasue don't forget, gaseous form is by no means his ONLY means of escape, and if he tries that and you block it he'll try something else. So... it looks like if you have a wand of wind wall, a coffin, and a stake, and some means of preventing his various and sundry OTHER means of escape you can pin him at the party. But I doubt you'll be able to pin him in such a way on in most of the other encounters (open sky! he can always go up and over!) but there you have it. I think.
Ch@pel 11-23-04, 11:41 PM	What about if the rogue can sneak up on him, and in the surprise round nail him with the stake? And then collect the body and bring him home? Or can he go gaseous as soon as she hits him with the stake? I'm not opposed to giving them something to help them out, because I have a way planned out for them to earn the help (from an NPC) that they'd receive. They have a day to plan, and there's an artificer in their party, and he's an engineer in real life, so he's always coming up with cool ideas for items or weapons. Maybe they can come up with something that will prove useful. Any other ideas? Keep'em coming, this is helping, thanks!
EscherEnigma 11-23-04, 11:51 PM	I'd say no, the rogue can't sneak attack him with the stake. Not because his unique affliction, but because hes a lvl 6 rogue and has uncanny dodge. I'd probably rule that if you drop him from positive hit points to less than one with a stake, that it would work like a normal staking and you can proceed from there, but since the wooden stake isn't a usual weapon that would involve some penalties. Are the PCs aware of what he is yet?
maijstral2 11-24-04, 01:50 AM	contains some adventure spoilers.... he'll obviously go gaseous as soon as he is pinned or killed (or rekilled) I'm not sure how you refer to a vampires "death". I am running this adventure right now and noticed this problem. what I plan on happening if the players don't figure something out sooner is to have the warforged stop the train over a river (I ditched the final ziggurat part). I want the final battle on the lightning rail anyway and this provides the prefect opportunity. vampires can't cross running water on there own so as long as the train remains over the water he can't escape from it no matter what form he is in. All the party has to do after defeating him is wait two hours for him to fall out of gaseous form find his body and stake it. I don't know if this is 100% correct but it works for me.
EscherEnigma 11-24-04, 01:55 AM	spoiler warning and what not. If I read the vamp entry correctly, then if he doesn't get to a coffin or somesuch within two hours after being reduced to 0 hp, then he gets destroyed. No body, no ashes, just destroyed, hes dead-dead, not superman-dead. And even worse tehre won't even be a body to show to your employers...
Azarias 11-24-04, 06:22 AM	Vampires and gaseous form: some things worth bearing in mind - (1) Creatures in gaseous form lose all supernatural abilities except the gaseous form ability. In a vampire's case, this rules out changing to animal form (notably a bat), summoning creatures, dominating creatures, or creating spawn. It also removes their vampiric DR and replaces it with 10/Magic. (2) DR 10/Magic aside, gaseous creatures are affected by spells - and indeed weapons - normally. There are thus any number of spells that may take a gaseous vampire down pretty sharpish if it can be hedged in for even a few rounds. Weapon abilities can be brought to bear, too. A scroll or two of Disrupting Weapon, or an Artificer augmenting the fighters' weapons with the same ability, can finish the vamp off post-haste. (3) A party of 4-5 has numerous ways of hedging in a vamp, but only if they know what they're up against. Wind Wall will hold it for several rounds, allowing the party to pound it with spells. If one character can fly, then the party can present mirrors or garlic around and above the gaseous form - as long as they leave no gap of more than 10' (5' from each mirror), the gas will be repelled inwards on itself, and the characters will still have a hand free each to cast etc. A scroll of Control Winds can be used to create a vortex of wind, with the calm eye centred on the party and vamp, which lasts ten minutes/level. A Command Undead spell can be used to simply persuade the vamp to stay where it is until the party is ready to launch a barrage of magic and disrupting weaponry. A scroll of Resilient Sphere will fulfill the same function.
EscherEnigma 11-24-04, 06:33 AM	Just thought I'd clarify on the vampires gaseous form, or more precisely, some of the special traits it has when hes forced into it. This is pulled straight from the SRD found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35). Fast Healing (Ex): A vampire heals 5 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. (It can travel up to nine miles in 2 hours.) Any additional damage dealt to a vampire forced into gaseous form has no effect. Once at rest in its coffin, a vampire is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour, then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 5 hit points per round. This seems particularly important because the main problem is not dealing damage to this guy, its keeping him from running away. His gaseous form is one of the more difficult methods of escape to stop. And if hes reduced to 0 and forced into it he becomes invulnerable to all further damage and focuses SOLEY on escape. If hes been forced into gaseous form then the problem really isn't containing him, it seems, but of saving his life (unlife) so that you can present him to the boss man. And I think we've beaten this subject to death. Can he be beaten/contained/captured? Yes. Is it easy for the unprepared? Nope.
Azarias 11-24-04, 10:03 AM	oops...my mistake. Of course he can't be harmed. In that case, I think the simplest method is a scroll of Control Winds, cast to create a rotational wind - standard action casting. If the vampire attempts to leave the eye, it'll simply go round and round the plughole, as it were, for the duration of the spell. The minimum duration would be 90 minutes (10 minutes/level), which leaves the vamp a maximum of half an hour to reach its coffin. A scroll of Extended Control Winds would leave him with no escape. I don't suppose it'd leave much proof behind, though, if it were to be 'utterly destroyed'.
Ch@pel 11-24-04, 05:14 PM	Thanks everybody for helping me out with this. Here's what I think my PCs should do, and any advice they can earn from NPCs will point them towards doing this. They're in good standing with the city watch of Trolanport and they have a whole day to prepare. So the first step would be to arm all the gaurds in the ballroom with holy symbols and mirrors and station them at each window and door. This will make it fairly hard for Lucan to escape, no matter what form he's in. They're lucky that he's already going to be in a confined space. Second, there are four PCs and one NPC weretiger helping them. They have an artificer who will probably cast spells, but can more importantly monitor the exits and help with crowd control. If Lucan somehow finds an exit, mage hand and a string of garlic ought to hold him. The have a changeling rogue, a monk and a WF fighter, too. The WF works on him mainly, since he's immune to energy drain. The other two back him up, while the NPC keeps an eye out for Grilsha. Eventually, they'll wear him down to 0 hp and he'll have to take gaseous form. He's still pretty much trapped, but more or less helpless, since he can't attack or use any special abilities. Then they focus on Grilsha. She values her brother's well being over all, and will probably prefer to bring the coffin into the room rather than see him outright destroyed. (The PCs will convince her that they only want to help him :devil: ) They get him in the coffin, stake him up good, and haul him back to Viorr. As long as they maintain the perimeter and prevent his escape, they should be alright, as long as they can ACTUALLY avoid being killed by him, which certainly won't be easy. Is there anything I'm missing? Any contingency I haven't planned for? Anything other suggestions for this plan?
DolArrah 11-24-04, 05:54 PM	ventilation shaft. . . and the pc's probably can't scout out the place without alerting someone, and Lucan has many friends. How will he et in if the gaurds have garlic, think of hoow expensive giving some 30 gaurds mirrors or garlic or a holy symbol. 30x say 3 silver peaces. That is 9 gold peaces, far more than a peasant earns in 3 years. If the government can afford to buy all of those, then they will have to take the money from another place. Also, the supply and demand: if someone bought 30 some mirrors, I would tell plople about it, then Lucan would find out: he has informants, remember. Also, he should be returned alive. Would Undead count as Creatures for the Dpell Locate Object? If not, your artificer could buy a scroll of it, then, when Lucan is in gaseous, track him with it. You have the guys credit card right? Use Discern Location (buy a scroll of it from the authorities) or some other info finding spell, after he is gaseous, then get to his coffin. The guy wouldn't be happy but, if you said it was nessecary, you would still get payed.
Ch@pel 11-25-04, 12:00 AM	I don't think there are any vents in the place, or at least I won't use that as a cop out for getting Lucan out. Also, they can get access to the hall without too much trouble. In my campaign, there were a few monsters on the loose in town, the PCs killed them, so the City Watch is pleased with them. Because of that, they shouldn't have much trouble getting the cooperation of the gaurds either. They bought a butt load of garlic in some small town they stopped in along the way, as soon as they figured out he was a vampire. And they've got the money to cover a bunch of holy symbols. As far as Lucan finding out because they bought a bunch of stuff, well that just seems a little cheesy to me. Lucan is doing everything possible to lay low, and no preist is gonna go around saying "Hey look at all the holy symbols I sold today!" Especially, if the PCs say, "Hey we're trying to kill vampire in your town, you think you could keep a lid on it?" Thats a killer idea about the discern location, I'll make sure to toss that in there, too. Also, I'm not worried about proving he's 'dead' if they kill him; there ought to be enough witnesses that Viorr has heard the whole freakin' story before they even get back to Breland. I'm more trying to figure out a way for them to collect the whole reward, if they can. The way to module is laid out, it doesn't look they're even supposed to have a chance at it, and I don't really get down with that.
Pioneer 11-28-04, 11:23 AM	Use a bellow to capture a gaseous form vampire then take him outside during the day and release him there to kill him. Or as one of our players did, use a scroll of true strike and a called shot to the heart. (neg 8 to hit but +20 for true strike.) That should solve the problem of the quest.
grimwarden 12-02-04, 07:22 AM	I have just scanned through this module, read your post.. how about some new angles of approach : take his sister as hostage... could work, depending on how much influence this sword has on him. another way : how about disarming him and putting that sword in holy water or drop some holy symbols on it with the right weapon and feat... possible some antimagic Zone could supress the sword's powers long enough to talk some sense into Lucan just some ideas ps corrected some minor spelling
DDELLE 12-11-04, 02:32 PM	Hello all, I've some questions on running WotVB. Heres the set up. In Whispers of the Vampires Blade my players just finished up the Ballroom scene last week. An interesting turn of events, one of the casters in my group is using spells from Monty Cooks Arcana Unearthed and there is one spell called Unhand (i think, its from grimore 2) and caused Lucan to drop his weapon. I've checked and this spell isn't in the catagory of spells undead are immue too, so it succeed in causing him to drop the blade. Now when this happened he had been attacking the group from the ceiling, to avoid the heavy fighter attacks and when he was disarmed the Soul Blade fell into the hands of the Players. The ranger in the group was able to resist its powers and the entire group beat a hasty retreat with the weapon knowing they couldn't take Lucan without full armor and weapons. (getting into the Ball ment the group had to smuggle in small weapons and light armor only) The question is: now that Lucan lost the Soul Blade, should he even bother to try to get it back? I'd think he would be happy to be rid of it. I plan on keeping him in Trolanport for a bit to try to rescue his sister whom the group captured in the stage coach chase but as far as the Soul Blade goes I can't see him even attempting to get it back. Any thoughts on this? :confused:
Lara Flynn 12-12-04, 12:45 PM	Calderus... Urosh is after Lucan as well and Lucan is subject to the vampire's will. Now that he's not dominated by the soul blade anymore, he'll probably return to Sharn and report to Calderus. Perhaps Calderus will send Urosh and Lucan to deal with the players and make 'em loose the soul blade once again. Or maybe Calderus will take heed of this herself... Regarding his sister I guess that Lucan won't be that interested in rescuing her. He's a vampire and it was a long time ago that he made decisions on his own or for his own/his relative's good. It's an interesting turn that he lost the soul blade, but that's not kicking Lucan out of the game.
Iku Rex 12-13-04, 02:10 AM	(No spoiler space - anyone reading this far knows what they're doing.) Ch@pel: You may want to put [Spoilers] in the thread title. And revealing that gaseous form is important when it comes to catching Lucan alive is a major spoiler in itself. (The adventure keeps assuming that his vampire abilities are a complete surprise to the PCs.) this module seems a little railroadyYa think? Basically, you can't let the PCs capture Lucan before the last battle. It ruins the adventure. Nor can you let the players disarm Lucan. It ruins the adventure. In fact, to be on the safe side, I suggest you put an end to all this unseemly "decision making" and "dice rolling" among your players. It ruins the adventure. Just tell them what happens in each scene, as David Noonan intended. Ok. Deep breaths. And I'm back on track... In order to catch a vampire "alive" you need to bring him to 0 HPs, follow him back to his coffin, and stake him. How hard this is depends on how you rule that the fast healing/0 HP ability works. A 0 HP vampire is "incapacitated", so I see this as an instinctual beeline flight towards the vampire's coffin. (Which can apparently be anything the vampire wants it to be, but that's another rant.) Of course, the adventure clearly states that it's impossible to follow Lucan once he leaves the embassy, but YMMV. If they do capture Lucan you may want to mention that a certain airship is leaving for Sharn soon. Then you can do the air battle on the way home. (When I tried this adventure [on my own - I was bored] my PC "killed" Lucan in the embassy, then followed Lucan through the window/wall when he fled in gaseous form. [That's right! My PC followed the fleeing bad guy, rather than stay to chat up the diplomat woman. In. Your. Face. David Noonan. Deep breaths. ] I retro-engineered some events to have Lucan's coffin already installed on the Destiny, and due to a timely sahuagin attack my PC lost sight of the fleeing vampire. He picked up the trail again on the docks, but was thrown of the Destiny, allowing Lucan to heal.)