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| Charles Phipps04-25-06, 08:00 PM | This is my personal gift to the forums for High Level Adventuring in Eberron. It's an assemblage of High Level Gaming questions for Eberron that I've been asked by my group, people on this forum have repeated a lot, and that have occurred in my experience. I personally love High Level and Epic Level Gaming so the combination works very well in Eberron despite some initial difficulties. It thus saved me plenty of time that might have been spent coming up with a new campaign for my novel writing. I gladly welcome feedback, additions, and also people's own questions and answers. I will also give a Q&A option for this thread to fans of this thread with the option of asking your own questions to the thread in order to give my own answers...like a little column on the forum. Now let us begin. Basic FAQ 1. What is the problem with High Level Adventuring in Eberron? 2. What is the difference between High Level adventuring and Epic Level? 3. Is it possible to have too high level in Eberron? 4. What is the best solution for 'My PCs are too powerful' syndrome? High Level Adventuring FAQ 1. My PCs have reached High Level, now what? 2. What sort of goals should the players have now that they're High Level? 3. What sort of goals should the players have now that they're Epic Level? 4. What sort of villains should the players now have that they're High Level? 5. How do I maintain realism that there's all these new challenges now facing them? 6. What sort of loot should I give High Level Adventuring PCs? High Level and Epic Level Aspects of Eberron 1. Dragons 2. The Undying Court 3. The Daelkyr 4. The Cult of the Dragon Below 5. The Quori 6. The Giants 7. The Lords of Dust 8. Dhakanni 9. Couatl 10. Fellow Adventurers Role-playing High Level in Eberron **Updated April 26th** 1. So how do high level hit points function in Eberron? 2. How do I RPG the rise in skill for high level characters? Players (and DMs) behaving badly 1. So my players don't respect the King of Breland because they're higher level than him, what now? Essay *Updated May 1st* 1. How do I deal with player's changing the world? |
| Charles Phipps04-25-06, 08:02 PM | Answers 1. What is the problem with High Level Adventuring in Eberron? Eberron has been described as a setting where the importace of PC levels is re-emphasized. It has never been described as a low level setting but the implications are that PC classes are rare by comparison to other settings. The implications are that adventurers are rare in the world of Eberron and that few individuals rise to great levels of magic and warcraft. This helps establish the PCs as individuals of great promise from the very beginning with even first level fighters being well trained by comparison to simple warriors. In such a setting, many DMs somewhat feel hamstrung surprisingly by the implications that the setting is not "built" for high level adventuring. 2. What is the difference between High Level adventuring and Epic Level? High Level adventuring is roughly (for the purposes of this FAQ) 12th through 20th level with 1st through 11th level being essentially the 'expected range' for an individual to be capable of progressing through Eberron without being noted as above normal limits for characters. High Level Characters in Eberron are extraordinarily rare and are able to move the course of their nations' destinies. Epic Level is 21st and above level by the descriptors of the Epic Level Handbook and it is more or less unheard of in Eberron save amongst monsters or the most legendary of beings in the lands. 3. Is it possible to have too high level in Eberron? For the purposes of this FAQ...no. However, if you feel that you aren't enjoying a game as much as the "Everyman" approach of lower levels then no one is holding a gun to your head, tastes may vary and if your players agree to it then there's nothing wrong with imposing a level cap for characters as well. You can say that's simply how high a character can go for his race. 4. What is the best solution for 'My PCs are too powerful' syndrome? You ultimately know this best and what your players like. Keep this mindset in mind for reading the FAQ. Your players could be perfectly happy to remain 23rd level mercenaries that just enjoy killing for gold to get them through the next day or they might want to become courtiers and masters of intrigue or even individuals who carve out their own kingdoms. The pacing and handling of your games will not be able to be addressed here so instead we just will be giving as broad suggestions as possible with hopes you'll ask more specific questions when you have read over the general ones. |
| Charles Phipps04-25-06, 08:45 PM | High Level Adventuring FAQ 1. My PCs have reached High Level, now what? Your PCs have managed to reach High Level and possibly have a large selection of small scale adventures behind them or perhaps have actually become famous for their efforts. It's important that by this point that you start to acknowledge the player's accomplishments and just what ripples they might have been having. This is a process that may be huge or small but ultimately there's the implications that the players are fairly well known in the circles they travel and also might be feared by various parties for their actions. Next, its a good idea to start throwing in the occasional 'narrative' fight rather than giving a steady power increase to one's enemies. These shouldn't take up too much adventuring time but feel free to start games where things have gone perfectly according to plan and the players have dealt with experienceless threats like a bandit gang, goblin mercenary troupe, or won a few barfights....it helps remind players they aren't lightweights who have to struggle with most problems. If you desire to tether your campaign to an existing area or group then it might be time to also start having the players invited to be honored or reviled by the leadership of the Five Nations. Even if they're a pack of scoundrels, the King certainly knows they might be able to do what a small army might not be able to. 2. What sort of goals should the players have now that they're High Level? This is something that has to be personalized for each player but its a good idea that if you ask what their player character's goals are, that they have some idea. As mentioned above, there's nothing wrong with the player character who simply wants to live free and die well as a wandering vagabound swordsman. However, if a player has broader ambitions then perhaps it should be allowed that they should seriously be able to consider them. It can be troublesome to campaign unity if there's goals that the players might be split apart for like one player wishing to become Keeper of the Flame, another Monarch of Breland (or his own kingdom), while yet another still has ambitions to set up a position as a noble counsellor. You can work around this well by simply acknowledging them going their seperate ways in game only to reunite them for each adventure for whatever quest that will have the potential to bind them. 3. What sort of goals should the players have now that they're Epic Level? If the players manage to get to Epic Level then its important to think not about BROADENING your limits but oddly re-establishing them. Many people erroneously believe Epic Levels gives them Infinity Gauntlet like power and their lives are to be defined with this quote from Thanos the Titan.... "I am now omnipotent. What should I do with such almighty power? The answer to that is really quite simple: Anything I want. Anything. I am incapable of error. Any result that displeases me I can simply reverse. There is nothing I need to worry on, for I am Thanos. And Thanos is supreme. Supreme." While this attitude may please some players sometime, it can quickly grow boring. Players do not undergo a magical transformation from 20th level to 21st but simply grow that much stronger than before. For Eberron its a good idea to remember treachery and the combined efforts of many (many clerics working together for example in a circle) and the like can overwhelm even mighty individuals. However, by this time most PCs may have trouble being believed as BEING themselves if they don't swagger essentially like a figure from Greek Myth. By this time PCs should essentially be like Lancelot Du Lake or King Arthur for many Middle Agers with some worshipping the ground they walk on, others unbelieving at the veracity of their stories, or others still terrified beyond imagination. It's entirely within reason also that at this point players might find their lives taking on a slightly Mythic Scope to them with figures like Radiant Idols, Archons, Balor, or other 'Godlike' beings choosing to involve them in their affairs and expanding the scope of their operations to Eberron because of the power they represent. In which case, you can argue the PCS THEMSELVES changed the scope of the world like Superman changed the world of DC comics. 4. What sort of villains should the players now have that they're High Level/Epic Level? The important thing for High Level Adventurers is to go slightly over the top while for Epic Levels its important to remember the benefits of quality over quantity. High Level Adventurers should be able to wade through most mooks and enter Matrix style into Dungeons if they so desire...confident in their own ability to survive. Epic Level characters should feel challenged by things beyond the realm of human understanding and terrifying on many levels that even their own power should be worried about facing such matters. It's better to say an Epic Level character destroyed an entire army on the fields of Cyre than it actually is to roll it out. It's also a good idea to recall that atmosphere and projected power work better than stats. A player may know that the players can fight a Balor by the illustration in the MM but using the Balrog picture from the Lord of the Rings as a starting point is a good idea plus a bit of flowery language. 5. How do I maintain realism that there's all these new challenges now facing them? This is a major concern for projecting realism into the setting and my best arguement is that there should be hints dropped every now and then that Eberron is a far more dangerous world than its often projected as for PCs at lower levels. Howard Phillip's Lovecraft's implications of the Great Old Ones and nightmarish Godlike things could well describe Eberron with the gateway seals on the horrors beneath Khyber potentially opening up to destroy the world. To avoid destabilizing the region, its best to perhaps argue that folks from the distant past will rise to challenge the players rather than ones that are contemporaries that have arisen to equal their might in the future. Perhaps they are arising directly because of the PCs with cults that fear them seeking to revive powers beyond their ken. 6. What sort of loot should I give High Level Adventuring PCs? A difficult question, an important idea is that by high level the PCs should have weapons and magical items equal to great power ad perhaps some reknown of their own while by Epic Leve one should perhaps simply start thinking of ways to make the weapons legendary by themselves rather than players seeking legendary ones. |
| DarkWarriorKarg04-25-06, 10:57 PM | This is great! Thanks! Spotted a typo: Couatl, not Coatl |
| Charles Phipps04-25-06, 11:29 PM | High Level and Epic Level Aspects of Eberron 1. Dragons Dragons are the typical of creatures for high level adventurers to oppose but they're a subtle creature on Eberron. The best way to overcome this is to confront their subtle natures head on and use renegades of their people, corrupted dragons, and perhaps even comment that even the mighty can be enslaved with the power of wizards (perhaps even Draconic wizards) binding others under draconic control. As Aerenal shows, even the Dragons can also go to war even though a campaign against Khovaire would radically change the gameline forever. 2. The Undying Court While the Undying Court itself is restricted to Aerenal, there's no reason to believe that members of it might be exiled or choose to leave because of their ambitions. These could be thousands of years old and as powerful as Lichs for mages or as equally great in fighter classes or clerical magic. It also adds the benefit of having as many as you want from the Elven people. The real question becomes 'why are they doing this' and things from xenophobia, power lust, or even more arcane motivations come into play. 3. The Daelkyr The Daelkyr are the big dogs in terms of causally creating a superpowerful threat for players and should not be treated causally. The weavers of flesh could actually be a very good "monster generator" for the Pcs with one awoken from slumber potentially creating hordes of monstrouscities to devastate the planet potentially. Portraying the insanity properly and intelligence likely means the PCs will have difficulty reaching them to finally undo them though and they can never be treated as cannon fodder. Their ability to affect their surroundings could probably make several interesting adventures into themselves with Silent Hill style Hells (or Willy Wonka). 4. The Cult of the Dragon Below The Cult of the Dragon Below shouldn't necessarily be dismissed as a group of mindless deformed insane fanatics. It's entirely possible they could be the most dangerous mortals on Eberron simply because Khyber promises such potential power to mortals foolish enough to worship it. This can be used as a shorthand method (horrors unnameable are released from Khyber) or Berserk! style antics with a faction of the Cult discovering a method to incarnate powerful demons all over the planet. It can even justify many "rules breaking" like exercises like a priest going to godlike power thanks to a lot of sacrifies it might have made. They can furthermore be subtle and groups like the Aurrum or other great power brokers can fall to worship of evil. 5. The Quori Many people complain they don't have the capacity to portray the Quori as subtlely as they should. In truth, the Quori's main point of subtlety is the fact that they are unknown and manipulating various groups to destabilize the region while increasing their own personal power. When the PCs come into high level, they gain the ability to wreck large scale plans of the Quori and throw off their time table considerably. Furthermore, they gain the ability to bind the spirits and potentially even journey into their dimension to slay them (and thus destroy their knowledge and power in the reincarnations). The physical impotency of the Quori should be explored along with the damage the Pcs can do to their centuries long plans. |
| Charles Phipps04-26-06, 12:28 AM | 6. The Giants Giants make great high level villains in Eberron, especially if you apply Storm Giant or Reef Giant templates to throwbacks to the ancient days of yore. The existence of Eldritch machines means that large numbers of campaigns can be fought against a movement to ressurect them with even low level footsoldiers existing as huge "cannon" fodder of varying strength to assault the enemy. 7. The Lords of Dust Even the most epic level party will be unlikely to defeat a Rajah in battle. However, their minions can theoretically provide opponents indefinitely as they have the potential to reach virtually any level with their immortal demonic lifespans. They also have all the benefits of the Quori for subtlety, immortality, and power but also the benefit of physical power. 8. Dhakanni The Goblin Empire poses a somewhat similiar threat to the Giants in attempts to bring them back but also less defined and not limited to Xen'drick. The idea of lost technology, sleeping in stasis goblins, and attempts to bring back the Empire with those warriors training every day for that time represents a good opportunity to have a high level game. 9. Couatl The Couatl may seem like a group that are unlikely to be sed as enemies in the setting but its entirely possible that corrupted members or ones that believe that the Silver Flame binding is simply not worth the desruction of their race could be important to restoring their people. In which case their powerful magic both arcane and clerical and potent natural abilities could make formidable adversaries. 10. Fellow Adventurers Simply fellow humans and legendary members of the demihuman races we've already mentioned the possibility of ancients coming back. A fanatical and corrupted Tira Mirron ready to lead a crusade against all unbelievers, Erandis D'Vol (perhaps gaining levels as the Pcs), the Lord of Blades being continually modified into something ever more deadly, and other nasties could all occur....the trick is keeping pace with PCs and giving a reason for the ancient to wake up for the truly powerful you don't want to explain as legendary heroes of the Last War or the like (the Last War is a great opportunity to explain where exploits might be) |
| Kid SixXx04-26-06, 07:54 AM | Charles Phipps works hard so you don't have to! Grats on the novels, Mr. Phipps. My brother digs Machine Goddess. |
| Ragnarok_N_Roll04-26-06, 08:43 AM | Finally someone codifies what I've been saying since I bought and read the setting book. Well done. More! :) |
| Charles Phipps04-26-06, 08:56 AM | Charles Phipps works hard so you don't have to! Grats on the novels, Mr. Phipps. My brother digs Machine Goddess. Thanks! And glad to hear it! |
| Sereno04-26-06, 10:12 AM | Charles ... you've done an excellent job of putting into actual details what a lot of us have been arguing for a long time ... that Eberron isn't a "low-level" world. Too many people have read through the books, found that there was no Eberron equivalent of Elminster/Halaster/etc and concluded that it was just for low-level adventures. Great work! I'm looking forward to more! |
| Titanic Ego04-26-06, 06:05 PM | About the Undying Court, the deathless can't travel too far from manifest zones of Irian, that's why the Undying Court can repel dragon invasions but not project power beyond Aerenal. Although it's certainly possible that some deathless would be hidden in smaller zones on Khorvaire, with a small cult of worshippers to sustain them. |
| Charles Phipps04-26-06, 06:17 PM | About the Undying Court, the deathless can't travel too far from manifest zones of Irian, that's why the Undying Court can repel dragon invasions but not project power beyond Aerenal. Although it's certainly possible that some deathless would be hidden in smaller zones on Khorvaire, with a small cult of worshippers to sustain them. Basically, what I was going for yeah. On a related note, its also important to note that for High Level games its good to be 'flexible.' In this case, if you desire to create a small or large army of the Deathless say....invading Khovaire then really all that's standing in your way is coming up with a good excuse as to how they've worked around the problem of the Manifest Zones of Irian. Crystal shards carrying links that they wear around their necks or other handwavey solutions should exist to move forward the plot even if DMs shouldn't be surprised if their players turn the solution against their enemies (and they should be glad about it). |
| Charles Phipps04-26-06, 06:27 PM | Role-playing High Level in Eberron 1. So how do high level hit points function in Eberron? A constant problem which many DMs have is RPGing the role of hit points in combat. In many campaigns, its simply that players can take that much more damage than lesser individuals. This can seem somewhat ridiculous in the context of D&D with the equivalent of a cartoon style violence with players having anvils dropped on their head and only being dazed. For the purposes of Eberron, its perhaps better to describe the role of hit points as instead reflection of a player's 'combat reserves' of energy where they're able to move at titanic speeds and with immense skill to avoid much in the way of damage (some players rightly point out that armor class is already a reflection of this but my argument is that it doesn't go quite far enough) along with perhaps a little in the way of one's ability to absorb damage better. This better reflects that poison and falls of immense height shouldn't be guarded against by one's hit point score. When describing grizzly wounds and scaring, a good rule of thumb is that 10% of one's damage is scarring, 50% of one's body is bleeding badly, and 90% is barely alive. Penalties might be realistic in many games but for the high level player, the adrenaline of fighting is presumed to outweigh such questions. This helps hopefully reflect the idea that Eberron is a realm of immensely skilled fighters but not super-humans. 2. How do I RPG the rise in skill for high level characters? The gain in high level features can be RPGed as simply a reflection of players gaining strength from their continued experience in fighting monsters. However, it might be more fun for players to need to seek out teachers or study a variety of different practices to increase their skill. DMs who wish to be generous can offer 10% bonuses to players who seek out high level teachers of equal level or above for the characters to RPG their training with. Clearly, of course, SOME person must be at the top and be an innovator so it cannot be a completely hard and fast rule but a less generous imposition might be that requirements of teaching are necessary for feats and certainly for all prestige classes or other class changes. At the very least, DMs should not be afraid to roleplay that the gain in skill for players to high level is particularly intense and they should not be above occasionally giving scenes from the intense training they might undertake on their own. Scenes like splitting rocks with their swords, montages of pouring through libraries of tomes assembles, and the like give a feel of how hard the player characters have worked for their newfound arete. Players (and DMs) behaving badly 1. So my players don't respect the King of Breland because they're higher level than him, what now? Explaining this to players is something that is sort of born out of what I call "Darwinian" campaigns where 'survival of the fittest' is supposed to have apparently put everyone on the throne. It's suggestable that players should realize that politics in Eberron is motivated as much by gold, business sense, heritage, and friends serving friends as pure strength. The fact this needs to be explained is somewhat sad honestly. In these explanations, take note that you shouldn't shy away from the fact the players should YES be aware its possible that they could kill the King and theoretically they might honestly be powerful enough to get away with it if they wanted to. This should by itself be enough to satisfy their bloodthirstier urges but if its not well....then that's the breaks of the campaign and they'll likely be hunted for the rest of their lives by warriors both great and small and have plunged a kingdom into anarchy. |
| Korhal_IV04-26-06, 08:28 PM | My question involves adjudicating high skill modifiers versus NPCs of only 10thish level. For example, a PC bard at 20th level might have +30 to Diplomacy and Bluff. King Boranel, as a 10th level fighter, can't even compete, and even if his advisor is a 10th level expert or rogue with Sense Motive, they're not going to reliably see through even mildly outlandish proposals (severely outlandish, yes, but not otherwise). In this sense, a game of intrigue might devolve into a frenzy of war-mongering from an irresponsible and silver-tongued PC. Thoughts? |
| Charles Phipps04-26-06, 08:52 PM | My question involves adjudicating high skill modifiers versus NPCs of only 10thish level. For example, a PC bard at 20th level might have +30 to Diplomacy and Bluff. King Boranel, as a 10th level fighter, can't even compete, and even if his advisor is a 10th level expert or rogue with Sense Motive, they're not going to reliably see through even mildly outlandish proposals (severely outlandish, yes, but not otherwise). In this sense, a game of intrigue might devolve into a frenzy of war-mongering from an irresponsible and silver-tongued PC. Thoughts? Well while the options really should be that the PCs of such level should be able to convince people that the sky is green really (we all know about evil Advisors like Grima Wormtongue and even Disney's Jaffar for this sort of thing), I recommend the imposition of modifiers to a large extent might be able to help matters considerably. A general chart for this sort of thing should be that for getting the PCs to be liked an appreciated, the rules system should remain unchanged. However, a more long term investment should be required for changing long standing matters of policy amongst the courts. A simple chart on my end should be... +1 to 5 modifiers for the social class bonus of the NPCs over the PCs (i.e. A Duke PC would only have a +1 bonus of Boranal over them while a King might have +5 over the commoner's tongue) -1 to 5 point penalty depending on how active the matter is against the previous policy and beliefs of the individual. (If the King really WANTS to go to war against the Goblins despite the uncertainties involved versus adamantly opposed) Furthermore, presenting the option of "Combining Actions" from the hands of a group of individuals (the 10th level advisor backed up by a cadre of other advisors can use their highest level +1 for each advisor with the addition of the Mythical "Committee" feat). There is also the social equivalent of "take ten" and use bribery or smaller actions to slowly erode greatly impressive moments. This helps establish that PCs must have an extended investment in courtly politics to have a powerful place in the workings of war and the like. A PC of 20th level is spoken of and is the equivalent of Moses walking in to confront Pharoah....a truly memorable occasion but while he can dramatically throw things into turmoil, he's not going to become the driving will of the throne unless he makes a committed effort to be there and its easy to write off their actions with 'dozens of advisors spent months undoing the damage the Karrnath hating Bard's carefully spun words had created in formenting fervent hatred around the capital." I find this helps seperate matters of "You can bag the Princess" for a night to convincing her father to let her marry you. |
| aelryinth04-26-06, 10:42 PM | Advisors using Aid ANother actions with modifiers can raise the DC of that Bluff check extremely high even against Epic Characters. Also, keep in mind reality vs balance. This is the King of all Breland. His resources are in the Millions of GP ...he IS richer then the characters (use the Landlord/Rulership/Leadership rules from Power of Faerun) and really, his ancestral gear of the Brelish Kings should be as expensive as you want to make it. If he's seated on his Throne he might be getting +30 to his Sense Motive Checks. He could be Mind Blanked all the time. Money is NOT a barriar to him. They might show him with the gear of a level 12 character...but he's a freaking KIng, not a level 12 fighter. He's as well equipped as y ou want to make him. And if you want to kill off Epic Characters...a few artificers with Heightened Staves of Force Orb or something can paste an Epic Character every round if they need to. Epic characters are not invulnerable, just hard to kill. Also, Eberron is based on the fact that the legendary heroes of old are gone...but that doesn't mean new ones aren't coming...it means the PC's are leading the next wave. So as they gain power, so should others be. ---------------- But really, keeping the characters busy enough to not worry about knocking off kings shouldn't be hard. Being a king should be beneath them once they start finding out who the real movers and shakers are. keep throwing stuff at them only they can solve...if they waste time trying to run a kingdom, they won't have a kingdom anyways. They should be aware if they DO take a kingdom, it's only going to get worse as their threat level increases exponentially. A King is only the VISIBLE ruler. The Lords of Dust once ruled the world, and can pull strings. Vol has been around longer then any nation on Khorvaire. The Elven Court is collectively a divine entity. The Daelkyr are utterly mad and simply want to destroy the world. ANd, the Prophecy may not give them any choice in the matter. Going against Fate never tends to end up well...if you have arcanists involved at all with it, or characters with Dragonmarks, binding them more and more tightly to the Prophecy and the Grand Plan of Eberron should give them more reward then any Kingship. ===Aelryinth |
| Euangelion04-27-06, 10:44 AM | Basically, what I was going for yeah. On a related note, its also important to note that for High Level games its good to be 'flexible.' In this case, if you desire to create a small or large army of the Deathless say....invading Khovaire then really all that's standing in your way is coming up with a good excuse as to how they've worked around the problem of the Manifest Zones of Irian. Crystal shards carrying links that they wear around their necks or other handwavey solutions should exist to move forward the plot even if DMs shouldn't be surprised if their players turn the solution against their enemies (and they should be glad about it). Or just bring along an orrery of the planes. In my personal opinion, while moving one means ending the effect created by the orrery until 24 hours after setting it back in place, I have no problem with the idea that an orrery could be mounted on a moving vessel larger than its area of affect and the ship could move without disrupting the effect of the orrery. |
| doomtrain04-27-06, 12:09 PM | For the purposes of Eberron, its perhaps better to describe the role of hit points as instead reflection of a player's 'combat reserves' of energy where they're able to move at titanic speeds and with immense skill to avoid much in the way of damage (some players rightly point out that armor class is already a reflection of this but my argument is that it doesn't go quite far enough) along with perhaps a little in the way of one's ability to absorb damage better. This better reflects that poison and falls of immense height shouldn't be guarded against by one's hit point score. When describing grizzly wounds and scaring, a good rule of thumb is that 10% of one's damage is scarring, 50% of one's body is bleeding badly, and 90% is barely alive. First, one question: "This better reflects that poison and falls of immense height shouldn't be guarded against by one's hit point score." Does this mean that in your opinion a high level fighter should not be able to survive af fall from 200 ft even though he has enough hp to survive the fall 3 or 4 times? I've just started DM'ing a solo-campaign in eberron and actually the damage system of d20 is something that I have given more than just a little thought. I play in WoD a lot where the damage-system is radically different (some would say more realistic than D&D) and I faced the same problem you describe, namely keeping the verisimilitude and not changing the system. I came up with a solution inspired partly by WW's Mage game, partly by Keith Baker, partly by a half-remembered post, I seem to recall having been written by yourself (I am not sure, however). Basically the idea is that hit points (and actually all accumulative bonuses gained from leveling up) after the first couple of levels is something inherently mystical/magical in nature. Basically I view all creatures as somekind of pattern in a larger tapestry, and when a PC gains a level and (thus more hitpoints skill points etc.) his pattern in the tapestry strengthens from some unknown (it could be the silver flame, sovereign host, rajahs, planes, the draconic prophecy or perhaps just the subtle magic that binds the world(s) together) source of energy or magic or whatever. Who is chosen is based on an unknown system, too, as it is very difficult (if not impossible) to predict how strong a certain person can be, and over how much time this power will accumulate. Also it is often very difficult even to ascertain who is "chosen" and who is just tough or lucky or fast, until you reach the higher levels. This explains why one person is able to survive hits that would tear giants to shreads, fall from immense heights and walk away from it, and do increddible (almost silly) things with skill-checks when he reaches epic level (balancing on clouds for example). It also explains why the same same spell that could bring the shopowner back from the brink of life to full vitality, can scarcely heal the bruise on the hero's left knee. I would like to finish with a congratulation, I am a huge fan of most of what you write on these boards and I'm desperately searching the libraries over here for your novels, having heard so much good about them :) (I am danish so please bear with any misspellings and the like) |
| LugWrench04-27-06, 12:55 PM | The other thing to remember is that, realisticly, the King got there because hes charasmatic (look at the hobgoblin king...he aint cute), but also becasue he may have something on his rivals. It could be that hes paying some duchess' Booze Bill for the month, or he may have some rather embarasing stuff on somone else. "Hey, Duke. Knock off the noise, or Ill see to it that the Sharn Inquisitive hears about you and the senechals daughter at the Dol Dornmas party." While Im not saying that the King is a fink, he is human. And its only human to make friends, and influence enemies. But what happens when the King is dethroned? Lets say the PCs do manage to take out the Kiing and put themselves on the throne. Two things are going to happen. One, the people who liked the old King are going to think that these guys are a bunch of jerks, and refuse to help them. In some cases, they may actually work against the party. Monkey warfare in politics can be very cutthroat, literally. Two, the PCs arent going to know where the bodies are buried. Now that the Duke no longer has to deal with a rule who knows the Dukes little secret, hes going to town when it comes to rabble-rousing, raising a ruckus, and making a damned nuscance of himself. Sure, the PCs just might manage to take the throne, by hook or by crook, but that doesnt mean they will have the instant loyalty of the Court. |
| Gurv04-27-06, 03:56 PM | My question involves adjudicating high skill modifiers versus NPCs of only 10thish level. For example, a PC bard at 20th level might have +30 to Diplomacy and Bluff. I strong recommend Rich Berlew's article on The Diplomacy Skill (http://www.giantitp.com/Func0010.html) to anyone. He had similar problems with the way the skill worked, and he comes up with some good solutions when he finds a problem. |
| Kemmotar_veon04-27-06, 06:37 PM | Rigth now I'm runnig a high level campaing... based in sarlona... the players are lost in sarlona being chased by everyone and everything... they has just found a Kalashtar that they hope will help them or at least bring them to Adar.... is quite good... I really like it... and more since the high level psionics is quite interesting if you know how to play it |
| Charles Phipps04-27-06, 06:43 PM | First, thanks Doomtrain and sadly I don't think my book is much available abroad (I only know England sadly) but thank you for trying. Maybe sometime in the future. As for my opinion. I use saving throw vs. death rolls for falls from great heights. I minus a penalty for every extra 10 feet before the fall range (past 30 feet in which I do inflict 1d6, 2d6, and 3d6 damage) |
| Charles Phipps05-02-06, 02:13 AM | How exactly do I deal with players that change the world? This is something that's going to be the longest part of this particular essay probably as I talk about the hardest and most difficult part of the story, in essentially the point that players transform from being soldiers/mercenaries/explorers/cutpurses/vagabond preachers into heroes. This is a point that's going to essentially occur not too far into your PC's career if you're lucky. It's going to be bluntly when the PCs have made an impression on the entire world. In Eberron you don't have the assumption that there's plenty of people putting down evil mining Barons or local gangs solely for the good of the community but the PCs and you SURE as Hell don't have people just causally stopping rogue Warforged Juggernauts let alone standing up to the Emerald Claw's armies and living. The following things become important to remember.... Who Loves the Characters? This is something that I keep a notecard for that I assign each player a +1 for each bonus. I also divide the results into the Five Estates. Peasants, Clergy, Nobility, Merchants, and Foreigners. The foreigners representing the "world in general" for their heroic actions. I assign a +1 to +10 bonus with the +10 basically being for people whom are fanatical and probably literal worshippers of the characters for things like having saved the city from destruction on numerous occasions and throw their wives/daughters at players. Who Fears the Characters? Basically, for the players to also be benefited they are also to be feared. The Hero of Breland may be a villain for the other nations. These can change but in Germany the Pulp Hero might be a nasty villain. These results should roughly be inversely proportional to the character's fame with their enemies. This means that someone beloved in Karrnath may find that the Emerald Claw views them as a terrible threat. What is the character's social status A good question is that can directly change with the activities of the player. In Breland, if the players kill hundreds of bad guys they can either expect to have the government legitimatize their actions in some manner (making them Knights of the Realm or otherwise elevating them to the peerage) or making them feared outlaws...even if its only of the Zorro variety. |
| Charles Phipps05-23-06, 01:44 AM | I thought this should go up. |
| Thanqol05-23-06, 10:55 PM | +30 on bluff by level 20? My bard, with the Glibness spell, could have much, much more than that by level 7. By level 6 he's also got +20 on Diplomacy and Peform. Don't underestimate the bards. |
| Talkkno06-29-06, 10:13 PM | "4. The Cult of the Dragon Below The Cult of the Dragon Below shouldn't necessarily be dismissed as a group of mindless deformed insane fanatics. It's entirely possible they could be the most dangerous mortals on Toril simply because Khyber promises such potential power to mortals foolish enough to worship it." I belive Toril, should be eberron, a minor nitpick |
| Korhal_IV06-29-06, 10:19 PM | +30 on bluff by level 20? My bard, with the Glibness spell, could have much, much more than that by level 7. By level 6 he's also got +20 on Diplomacy and Peform. Don't underestimate the bards. Without Glibness or other magical/circumstantial bonuses, happy? :P |
| Thanqol06-29-06, 11:36 PM | Without Glibness or other magical/circumstantial bonuses, happy? :P Well, without Glibness, his +20 diplomacy stands. The 5 nations don't exactly hold diplomats in antimagic fields either :P but if so, it drops maybe 2 points? |
| Revan_Revanthas06-30-06, 04:10 AM | This is an excellent and insightful thread Mr. Phipps. The question I have is this: How does a DM balance the expanding influence these nefarious organizations and villans will undoubted exert on the politics of Eberron without reigniting the Last War? I applaud your choice in avatars. :D |
| Titanic Ego06-30-06, 04:33 PM | This is an excellent and insightful thread Mr. Phipps. The question I have is this: How does a DM balance the expanding influence these nefarious organizations and villans will undoubted exert on the politics of Eberron without reigniting the Last War? I applaud your choice in avatars. :D The Lords of Dust have been doing their thing (many separate 'things' actually) for millenia, with various partially overlapping and strange (Prophecy-related) objectives. I would assume they have the most developed networks of influence, but each LoD will have a separate network, but many of these networks will not be designed to facilitate external conquest (the rakshasa are strong enough to crush Khorvaire without softening it up first, provided that the dragons would not intervene) so competition with the Quori for influence need not be overly intense. A rakshasa might be trying to create a new musical fad or have a castle made of white marble built in a certain location in order to fulfill prophecies on the way to releasing a rajah, and the DD, BoV, LoB, CotDB, etc wouldn't care about this at all. The Dreaming Dark doesn't like the rakshasa, but also doesn't want to fight with them if at all possible: their interest is in stabilizing mortal affairs to prevent the turning of the Age, not dominance of other outsiders. On the other hand, releasing rajahs would be just the thing to initiate catastrophic change, so the DD WILL take action if such a threat looms. Likewise for the apocalyptic ambitions of the daelkyr and the Children of Winter. They will also want to neutralize several factions that do not dream, e.g. the warforged/LoB and the undead of the BoV. Creatures that don't dream are a tactical threat, and since they don't have any dreams to contribute to Dal Quor exterminating them is unlikely to trigger great changes there. On the other hand, if either of these forces (or even the elves) were to supplant the dreaming races this would almost certainly be a disaster. The Cults of the Dragon Below and daelkyr minions are unlikely to have any coordinated policy (although you never know with the illithids): a cult might cooperate with or oppose the LoD or DD on any particular occasion depending on its insanities, goals, etc. The Blood of Vol is in an interesting position: Vol is old and wise enough to know a lot about the ancient powers, and her undead are in a good position to detect and bring back information about the Dreaming Dark, but the BoV isn't at the same power levels (unless it establishes open rule over a region and starts converting thousands of people into vampires or some similarly bold move, releases primal Qabalrin vampires, etc). The BoV and Emerald Claw are likely to try to (perhaps indirectly) set other forces such as the PCs and mortal kingdoms against enemies like the Dreaming Dark while quietly providing support from behind the scenes. This would be most even and likely with the Dreaming Dark due to the dreamless nature of the undead. Conflict with the LoD is unlikely to be extreme, and the BoV might even have good relations with some of the minions of Katashka or another death/undeath related rajah, especially ak'chazar necromancer rakshasa. (Although the half-dragon bit could be very offensive to some rakshasa, others might find it amusing to utilize a draconic pawn for their own purposes, noting Vol's anger towards the dragons that helped to destroy her house.) |
| Kid SixXx07-02-06, 08:41 PM | :bump: |
| Charles Phipps07-02-06, 09:04 PM | This is an excellent and insightful thread Mr. Phipps. The question I have is this: How does a DM balance the expanding influence these nefarious organizations and villans will undoubted exert on the politics of Eberron without reigniting the Last War? While Titanic Ego did an excellent job, my answer for it is this... It's important to remember these are Supervillains and not Corporations. What does this mean? It means basically that the majority of these organizations are interested in quick and dramatic payoffs than slowly building up their fortunes. They want power in a manner that will provide them with open and physical results. The majority of their 'smaller' operations are actually based around building enough capital and power for their larger activities. This means that they tend to perform only a small number of 'big operations' every year and the players have a genuine chance to thwart their plans in huge and dramatic ways as opposed to merely thwarting a minor movement of them. An example of a Lord of Dust plot might be that they are spending a fortune in purchasing property across Sharn, paying off slavers for people to sacrifice in blood rituals, and preparing for the big riot they want to arrange for their drawn magical circle that will provide the necessary energy to collapse Sharn to summon a Rajah from its dormant slumber. The player characters may stop it at the last moment but having ruined their plans, they have lost millions and thrown entire years of planning to the wind. Ironically, this usually means they'll be willing to gamble MORE next time. On a related note, the majority of villain furthermore dont want to start the Last War. The Lords of Dust want to force all human beings under the slavery of the Rakashasas, the Emerald Claw wants to take over Karrnath, the Quori want to slowly corrupt the people of Khovaire while also cutting more corners than is healthy to attack the Kalashatar, and so on. None of these are necessarily served by the return of the Last War. Indeed, the players may find themselves allied with people they don't want to be in order to prevent the return. Ironically, the only people who want the Last War to return are the monarchs of three of the four surviving nations. |
| Revan_Revanthas07-03-06, 09:48 PM | In a living and breathing campaign, all of these organizations would be gambling on these major operations simultaneously in different parts of Khorvaire. A single party cannot hope to oppose them all and there is a notable absence of powerful good aligned NPCs to assist them. A successful gamble within the borders of any one of the Five Nations would cripple that Kingdom or force the ruler to field their military forces, violating the cease fire. As previously mentioned, there are other rulers looking for any excuse to rekindle the flames of war and they would relish the opportunity to assault an enemy already under duress. All of that having been said, I do realize that the ambitions, plots and successes of any antagonist(s) are firmly in the hands of the DM. I could focus solely on one entity and leave the others dormant (except as needed for flavor text) but it seems unrealistic that the powers behind one organization grow and flex while the others sit quietly and wait their turn. How does the DM justify having the "build up" times for so many different organizations operations being staggered in such a way that the PCs even have the opportunity to get involved (near the climax or not)? Even if they manage to thwart one organization, the others are still moving. The climate of Khorvaire being what it is, the party is probably ignorant of at least three other major threats at any given time. Someone is bound to roll a natural "20" eventually and high level enemies tend to go for the brass ring. I don't want to sound over critical but it seems like Global Thermonuclear War; "The only way to win is not to play..." The problem is, of course, that I would really like to play. :D |
| Charles Phipps07-03-06, 10:17 PM | You actually asked a half dozen questions there at once Revan_Revanthas. However, I'll try and answer the questions as best as I possibly can. 1. How do the PCs make a difference? Your main question here is basically the pressures of the world being in the hands of the PCs. The answer is metanarrated as the PCs won't necessarily be the ones to break down all the evils of the world. I actually make it a point to set all of my Eberron games in the same world so that there are several heroes operating. The future is also potentially very bleak but Eberron has survived up until this point and its not like the Apocalypse is necessarily iminent. The destruction of even one of the organizations that assails Eberron has the potential to make the world a tremendously better place. People should also be inspired by tales of the epic deeds of the PCs. Even if they die in battle, they might just bring about a generation of other heroes. 2. How often do the Big Plans occur? Don't confuse the actions of most of the evil doers with those of Marvel comics. The Lords of Dust are SLOW in their plots. They're immortal and they have no reason to do anything but take their time. The Quori are much faster in their actions but they are opposed relentlessly by the Kalashatar resistance. The Kalashatar wage a fanatical gureilla war against them and screw them up a great deal. The lesser powers are also only human in their deeds. The Aurrum and Emerald Claw may have the most to fear from PCs but they also want to avoid the attention of the Dark lanterns, Queen's Eyes, the Black Cabinet, and other groups that preserve order. 3. How does one justify the PCs being in the right place at the right time? I utilize the Dragons in this respect as its noted that they have no desire to see the world taken over by demons or the balance of power profoundly shaken. The Chamber and other parties KNOW by their knowledge of the Dragon Prophecy the PCs are capable of making waves in the world by their personalities. They thus are often the hidden people who lay the clues or items that make them be in the locals they need to be. The Gatekeepers and other organizations can also be at this place. Hell, even the Dark Lanterns and other agencies are willing to employ "outside contractors" if they sense something is immense but requires a violent solution. 4. How soon will the Last War be? You're wrong if you think that the warhawks want to begin the war immediately. In addition to the sheer TERROR of the Day of Mourning that some attribute from divine judgement to a weapon that SOMEONE is lying about not having, there's a simple attitude that the war was in a stalemate despite its best efforts. The current climate is one where Queen Aurala is building up her devastated lands in preparation for eventually retaking the world. However, if she can go to war with Thrane and take back her lost lands or take the whole of the Eldeen Reaches first then it might provide her more than her fair share of power to eventually take all of Khovaire. King Kaius is a formidable power and his biggest goal is to put down the warhawks in his land currently while they have to overthrow Kaius before they'll take the nation to war. Even then, plenty have Aurala's idea that the Valenar might need to recruited/enslaved before they can conclusively take Thrane. In Thraen's case, Jaela has no particular ambitions to rule the world and needs to be overthrown or some maguffin to prove that it needs to be done. 5. The organizations might oppose one another It's possible The Lords of Dust could be recruited to destroy the Quori and ditto vice versa. There is only one master of the Ring and he does not share power. |
| Revan_Revanthas07-04-06, 02:25 AM | Whereas I can understand where you're coming from, I would like to invite you to where I am... The Last War may have been in a stalemate at the signing of the Thronehold Accords but the Five Nations (along with all of the newly empowered ones) have had years to restock and resupply. The cessation of overt hostilities has not lessened the average citizens (or rulers) aggression towards their enemies and the wounds dealt during the Last War are still festering. This pretty closely follows what has been written so far. Each kingdom maintains spies and other covert agents in the realms of both their enemies and their allies. All of this, you already know. Immortal though the Lords of Dust and many of their proxies may be, they are not stupid. If their plans to free/ressurect/assist the daelkyr (or any other appropriate entity) would benefit from having certain enemies distracted, then sparking off hostilities between nations would certainly be on the menu. Please refrain from offering suggestions along the lines of, "Why don't you just level them up," or "They are immortal," when I can read and apply that text as clearly as you can. The Council of Wyrms, err, Chamber may be a useful tool for interpreting the Prophecy but they fall somewhat behind in the divination arena. I have seen references to their ability to foresee "disturbances in the force" but not in actual precognition. They sure didn't see the whole Mark of Death thing coming... Besides, even though I could try to introduce them in a favorable light, the idea of evil silver dragons has apparently put my players on edge. They seem more likely to treat all dragons as a threat then to ally with any of them. I'm hoping that playing through the lower levels of a campaign will get them more used to the idea. For now, I'd prefer to keep my oracles freeform until I see which way the wind blows. I was somewhat insulted by the tone of your reply and I may be responding a bit harshly. That would be fair to say. Irregardless I have only one, very specific, question: - Without resorting to chopping the world into isolated bits and running it episodically, - While running a long term campaign, spanning 1st to 40th level, - Where the enemies do not sit in stasis and wait for the heroes to come and oppose them, which one would logically conclude means some of them run unchecked, -With so many antagonists and so few allies, many of which have neither the means nor the desire to oppose one another until after their goals are realized, - Without needing to suggest to the party that they need to create several dozen more heroes to deal with the literally hundreds of other villans operating on a global theater if they want to play a role in their defeat, - Where the enemies, like the heroes, gain resources and power as the campaign timeline advances, - Where the deities of the realm are so distant that they reward their devout priests with eternal purgatory, let alone not lending unasked assistance for the good of the world, - Where the average pregenerated good aligned NPC is 5 or more CRs behind the average threat of similar influence and maintaining that status quo throughout the campaign to allow for continuity and moderate realism, In short, while running an Eberron campaign, How does one not end up with a BBEG generated apocalypse? |
| aelryinth07-04-06, 02:55 PM | The correct response to that is "why don't you want a BBEG apocalypse to threaten the world?" Apocalypses are level 20 meat and drink. For Epic Characters, not having an Apocalypse to fend off is a really boring day. The very fact that they ARE capable of meeting the apocalypse head on might be an extension of the Prophecy moving things to derail things...somehow, despite centuries or millenia of painstaking planning to remove all possible threats, the PC's plow through everything, disrupt the dire deed, and can actually undo uncounted lifespans of work to bring about the Happy Day of the Fiends. As you go Epic, you start becoming aware of all these huge, dangerous plots going on all sides that threaten the world. Having foiled one, the Players are now aware of you, and willing to take major actions to forestall you, as you've proven to be something their Immortalnesses can't just slap down like a bug. Then, you become aware that these plots that threaten the world pale in terms of the REAL threats from Outside reality that come in. Epic games by default almost require plane stomping to handle the level of power that is there. The former masterminds are now pawns themselves, and don't know it. Furthermore, the game definitely has to start involving the players more. The Adventure Path is basically a Reactive Series...the players are thrown into the middle of something and have to respond to it...kind of like ANtibodies to an external threat. In a place like Eberron, a homebrew campaign is going to be more about the goals of the PC's as they level, especially once they are 12+ and tower over most of the Good Rulers/powers of the place. They start doing stuff, and events start responding to them. From starting a mercantile business to forging a trade empire to political power to reforging Galifar...plenty of things to do as now the events start having to try and stop them...and they are now proactive instead of reactive. At high levels, goals should be similarly lofty. How do you slay an Outsider forever, so you don't have to face Singh the Sly yet AGAIN, nor have your descendents put up with him? How will discovering this method cause all Outsiders to respond? What if your players want to resurrect Siberys using the power of every Rajah, sacrificed to provide the power to do so? What happens when they exterminate all the Daelkyr to open up Deepearth to exploration and exploitation, only to find out the Daelkyr are merely the advance scouts for the Pseudonatural Fiend Lord Uggr,bluu, itself a minor general in the armies of the King in Yellow? What happens if the Blood War of Planescape threatens to punch its way into Eberron, or even Dollurh, to make off with the slain souls of every creature that ever dies, as fuel for their war, and there are no divinities to stop them? What happens if some Planeswalker from another sphere stumbles on Eberron, and lets his Gods know about this place? Do the people of Eberron really want Mystra around, even if she can chain the Rajahs forever? Can the PC's stop an invading Pantheon, and do they want to? What does lay beyond Dollurh? Etc etc. goals of the PC's as much or more then external threats. THe PC's might be part of the Prophecy, their very existence and power gathered just to face all these events coming to a head, or to force these events into being. When you've the power to destroy armies, Apocalypse is the only viable threat you can make in lieu of simple direct confrontation with powerful, essentially unkillable creatures who keep returning. Not satisfying...you have to make thigns events. ==== I started a new storyline on my Story of Worms, about Ruin and Co. post Age. Now, be aware that these people are probably individually the strongest forces for Good alive. Two of them (the Tenser and Bucknard analogs) are 'returned heroes of old', who basically have grown past the idiocy of the Last War and taken their own places of power. As the story enters, it's all about consolidation and mopping up. 'Tenser', the NPC, is the Archmage in Amber, and controls one of the most magically powerful sites of power in the world. He's also the first Catastrophe Mage to hit level 10, and as a result fears the Dragons and Lords of Dust immensely. He surrounds himself with a very few close friends and most of his servants and allies are Celestials, simply because of trust issues. While an Epic character, he's rather overwhelmed at the sheer scope of the powers arrayed out there, he basically clings to his Fortress and Guardianship and needs to be coaxed out...supplicants come to him. 'Bucknard', Lord Kenzelstun, is effectively 'retired' into Princedom of the city of 'Alcastar', which got thoroughly trashed in the Age of Worms. A former royal advisor, explorer, mage, he's acheived his ambition of crushing the Host of Worms and is satisfied with his lot in life. His magic is turned towards rebuilding the Princedom, turning the inhabitants away from the self-serving attitudes spawned by the prior ruler, and occasionally popping out to perform mop-up duties on the broodspawns left behind in distant places. Estemar, paladin, Topaz Knight, Cyran Avenger, finds himself the Patriarch of the Church of Silver waters, being erected atop where the Spires of Worms was. He's dealing with the conversion of a new flock, further expanding the philosophy of his faith...and becoming a threat to the Church of the Silver Flame as a rival philosophy to their own authority and the same source of power. After all, HERE the Silver Waters rose to claim the power of a would-be god...over THERE, all the Flame did was keep the chains on a god already sealed, and required the sacrifice of a couatl to do it! We don't need no Keeper bound to her little fire...we've got a REAL hero here! Trencher's magical power over earth and stone is burgeoning, and in a level or two he'll be capable of Epic Spellcasting. His great motivation for learning magic has been to avenge the extermination of the fallen dwarven kingdom from with the Mror were descended, and take the war to the Daelkyr as they've never seen it before or since. He's aware he can't do it alone, and in the meantime he's building up Fort Lewt into one of the most unassailable strongpoints and fortresses that has ever existed...from threats both above and below. Haze' is the most magically powerful of the lot, and is capable of Epic Spellcasting. She's also a Witch of Siberys, and bound to and a pawn of the Prophecy on many levels. She can expend massive resources and do great things if she sets her mind to it. Few people realize just how powerful she is, because she stays so personable. Lady Silver is effectively a former henchman of General Ruin, and not quite Epic...however, she's surpassed the normal limits of the Chameleon class, and is of comparable power spellcasting to Jaela of Flamekeep...while actually possessing the levels. As the heart and soul of the Silver Waters movement, she's basically in charge of the souls of thousands of former Cyrans who've found a faith to turn to in the despair over their loss of their country. Her diplomacy modifiers are through the roof, and the most beloved of all the characters in the realm of General Ruin. Ana, Marcus' wife, is effectively his henchman and two levels lower...almost but not quite an Epic Artificer. There's no living artificer who can compare to her skill and the demands placed upon her. However, her talents are geared towards the continuing support of her husband and his troops, for the most part, and defenses of the place where she and her family have chosen to live. General Ruin is the Leader of them all...an Epic Forsaken. His very nature breaks the Prophecy around him...his WOlves are, pound for pound, the absolute finest fighting force in the lands...his environs have more higher level people then they have a right to (meaning level 4+)...he has no magical ability to speak of, and yet his men follow him with zeal and fanaticism worthy of a great leader. He commands the finest airship in all Khorvaire, one using methods other then enslaved elementals to propel it...he sits solidly athwart the River Cyre, a threat to Valenar, Darguun, and exploits the local environs of the Mournland for everything he can to benefit the people. At the start of the story, these Epic level powerhouses are basically ALL on mop up duty. Marcus and the team in Fort Lewt musters out every couple of days to take down another broodfiend left over from the Age of Worms, a thankless job that has taken them months. They are rebuilding and entrenching their defenses against mundane threats, rather unmindful of the half-believed stories rocking the continent that a band of assembled heroes slew a would-be God, and the dire reputations that go with it. Fallout from the Age of Worms is ravaging distant places, especially Valenar and Darguun, and Karrnath is reeling from backlash against its own undead troops turning on it. Aware of, yet ignoring, the broad shakeout of the destruction of the Age of Worms (or,perhaps, the coming of the Age of the Burbur), a minor event (the coming of a Sarlonan Diplomatic party) to secure their aid in overcoming the broodfiends sent to infest Sarlona explodes into broader and broader consequences. Mindful of the growing power of Fort Lewt, and seeing the opportunity there, the Inspired Psion Talashara mind seeded a young Karrnathi woman, married one of Ruin's junior officers, and established herself as the nanny/babysitter for Ruin's children. Using dreams to warp and influence them (extremely aware of the power of those about her), the Inspired planned to use the descendents of Lord Ruin as another center of power for their infiltration of Khorvaire. Now, that mind seed has been found out, and things are going to get interesting as the Dreaming Dark finds out how an Epic warlord does war against the unkillable and unseeable. Apocalypse? Been there, done that...now, it's time to bring some Epic Stuff into play. ===Aelryinth |
| Charles Phipps07-04-06, 07:20 PM | Revan, with all due respect, you seem to be taking this way too seriously. I heard you fine the first time. I just disagree with your interpretation. Don't think its me insulting your game style, its just me offering a different way of looking at things. The majority of bad guys don't want the world to be destroyed (how would they rule it then?), the majority of nations don't want to go to war until they have a clear advantage over the other sides, and there are parties that want to help the PCs like the Gatekeepers and Chambers. The players are the nexus points but they WILL save the world most likely. By doing so, the forces of the bad guys will be crushed. If you don't want to go with this interpretation in your world, that's fine by me. I'm just forwarding a interpretation of information that doesn't have such a pessimistic view of Eberron. Eberron is meant to be Pulp Adventure. That means that while the forces of evil are overwhelming, it has given birth to an elite group of heroes that will overwhelm the seemingly invincible forces of darkness. There will be a dozen World Ending Plots and Evils but the assumption is your players will stop them....or someone else. That's my take on it and you're welcome to reject it. If you feel the darkness of Eberron is too overwhelming. Then I suggest to capture the Pulp feel you make some player characters equal to the PCs. Eberron isn't LACKING heroes. The Gatekeepers, the Kalashatar, the Knights of the Silver Flame, and the Dark Lanterns/Red Cloaks are all people who fight for the salvation of the world. They just aren't as good as the PCs. |
| Revan_Revanthas07-08-06, 02:58 AM | I'm not insulted, nor did I mean to be insulting. I apologize for at least one of my earlier postings in which I was a bit heavy handed. I am just brainstorming, perhaps overmuch, a campaign that I would like very much to implement utiliziing as much of the published material as possible. One of the threads someone posted in response to one of my rants stated, very pointedly, that high level good alighned heroes have numerous limitations and obligations that evil characters of similar levels simply wouldn't experience. That statement, along with a few dozen others - many of which were yours - have opened avenues of thought that I had not explored beforehand. That my friend is the reason why I post here and why I continue to state and restate any and all conflicts that I encounter. I prefer realism to pessimism. I do not disregard any information or any of the ideas shared with me. I didn't mean to imply any such thing. Assisting someone in asking the right question is oftentimes more helpful than answering their first inquiry. You have done that and I appreciate it. As to the prevalence of evil in Eberron, I agree wholeheartedly that the setting is meant to teeter on the brink of destruction and that the pulp genre is infused with a suspension of disbelief that would never be tolerated in many other mediums. I do not disagree with you on any specific point. In point of fact, the idea that I am currently kicking around my brain would be to reverse the roles and have the players generate anti-heroes. Evil destroying evil simultaneously solves three distinct problems that I was having (thanks Errant). Not having enough allies of sufficient moral fiber to maintain a predominately good party is irrelevant if they instead turn to the dark side of the force. It's simple mathematics, yet I hadn't even considered it. That's all I've got for now, though I'd love to hear any thoughts on the concept. |
| JWSIII07-21-06, 06:33 PM | Hey Mr. Phipps, I was curious as to how you handle the introduction of advanced magical capabilities by characters? (I already have alot of experience dealing with "I want to &^%$#-slap the king :D ) - What I mean is, if, for example, one player is a Cannith Artificier and gets high enough to make a Teleportation circle permanent, and Cannith begins getting its Mror Iron or Shadow Marches Eberron shards directly from he source? Or even worse/better, what about potential permanent changes, like rediscovering artifact spells fom Xen'Drik with a +60 spellcraft? Do you let people learn to make them, or how do you handle these things in general? And do you/would you take them into account for organizational capabilities (Epic Clerics of the Silver FLame helping Thrane conquer territory, ect.?). When characters stay individually powerful, I think it is relatively easy to deal with them; but what about the trickle down economics of advanced characters and organizations is my general question. Thanks for any insight, John |
| aelryinth07-22-06, 05:44 PM | Hey Mr. Phipps, I was curious as to how you handle the introduction of advanced magical capabilities by characters? (I already have alot of experience dealing with "I want to &^%$#-slap the king :D ) - What I mean is, if, for example, one player is a Cannith Artificier and gets high enough to make a Teleportation circle permanent, and Cannith begins getting its Mror Iron or Shadow Marches Eberron shards directly from he source? Or even worse/better, what about potential permanent changes, like rediscovering artifact spells fom Xen'Drik with a +60 spellcraft? Do you let people learn to make them, or how do you handle these things in general? And do you/would you take them into account for organizational capabilities (Epic Clerics of the Silver FLame helping Thrane conquer territory, ect.?). When characters stay individually powerful, I think it is relatively easy to deal with them; but what about the trickle down economics of advanced characters and organizations is my general question. Thanks for any insight, John I actually posted a Orien Waypoint for Xen'Drik, that effectively doubled the range of Orien teleporters so they could teleport between khorvaire and Xen'Drik. The key is keeping the bloody thing totally secret so that the competition doesn't destroy it to erase the magical advantage, and theives don't camp it to rob the teleporters or divert the people using it. Control of those points will immediately become contested. A permanent teleport circle to Xen'Drik allows massive movement of goods and people...countries will mobilize to control such a resource and capture control of a huge swathe of Xen'Drik. The character will have to keep it plenty secret...and what happens when his enemies let word of it leak out? Suddenly every wealthy power wants one of their own, OR doesn't want anyone else to have one. Now, you have intrigue. What is the character going to do when the monarchs and lords of the Houses are all beating down his door for a circle of their own, or unremittingly hostile to the only one who has control of it, or are willing to enter negotiations for exclusive use of it? Those who he doesn't let use it will try to destroy it...those who he does he'll exert a remarkable degree of power over. You want to drop the 'high level character power' bomb, make sure it has repercussions that are realistic. IF they want to change the world, they have to realize they are fighting people who like the world the way it is. ===Aelryinth |