Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arcane Guyver 06-14-05, 07:02 PM	Next time I attempt to run an Eberron game, I think I'd like to tone down the reliance on armor a bit by using the Class Defense thing from Unearthed Arcana. I'm a little leery of certain aspects of the system though: * Touch AC's being much higher than normal * Making that dip into Fighter even MORE incredibly beneficial * Warforged....their innate AC might be devalued somehow I was just wondering if anybody here has tried Eberron with this system, and what effect it had on the game. As a sidenote, this has been bugging me a little, though I'm betting I missed something: Sharn is a hot, muggy place, yes? Yet the residents seem totally fine wearing tons of armor & fancy clothes.
Zalaz Mavi 06-14-05, 07:29 PM	Our group uses the Defense progressions of equivalent SWRPG classes. However, a character can only apply the Defense bonus if wearing Studded Leather or lighter armor. Anything heavier, they lose the bonus and must improve their AC in the standard way. The thing I've observed about Defense bonus progressions is that only characters with a high Dexterity make it a feasible option. With only a slight increase every few levels, a high Dex bonus to AC does a lot toward keeping a character competitive and comparable to someone in full armor. Otherwise, it's been a great advantage to the group. They aren't at a disadvantage should they have to enter combat and they don't suffer penalties to skills. Further, it makes non-warrior characters more viable, since they aren't as vulnerable as they normally would be. For that matter, it frees up warrior characters to explore options other than dress-up-like-a-tank-and-carry-a-big-sword (or axe). With a defense bonus, a warrior can paint himself blue and run around in a loin cloth without that being considered suicide according to the stats of the game...
Edymnion 06-14-05, 07:55 PM	If you do use a defense bonus (ala Star Wars or Wheel of Time RPGs), you should religate magic armor to a near artifact status. Remember, those systems have the defense bonuse precisely because there is no magic armor to go around. Having both would be too much. As for Sharn, yeah, but don't forget that its also in a manifest zone for wind and air, so there's likely a nice cooling breeze at all times.
Cloud Divider 06-15-05, 07:30 PM	I've been tempted to introduce such a thing in my campaign as well. I checked out the Defense Bonus as presented in Unearthed Arcana, but wasn't particularly impressed. As written, it very much seemed to overwhelm armor in the first place. It appears that it'd work reasonably well if combined with the Armor-as-DR rules (which is more effort than I want to deal with). If a Fighter gets a +6 Defense Bonus (that stacks with Dex, IIRC) at low levels, there's no real reason for him to wear armor. What I'd ideally like, is something that splits the difference. Combat Expertise is a fairly reasonable solution for fighters (if you can afford the attack hit), however all but requiring that Feat is not a good thing. That, and the 13 Int requirement is pretty limiting, especially if you're running a mid-stats game (28 point, in my case). Perhaps merely houseruling that everyone gets Combat Expertise for free... Maybe BAB/2 as Defense Bonus might work (perhaps also limited by the max dex limit of the armor, obeys the normal flat-footed/etc rules for the dex bonus). On some level, it represents how you get better at defending yourself as you gain levels (regardless of what kind of armor you wear). So a 6th level Fighter with a 14 Dex and a Breastplate would have AC 20. Hm, perhaps even that's too high. BAB/3? BAB/5 (that's the Monk AC progression, isn't it?)? I'm not familiar with how SWd20 handles it - perhaps I should go and do some research...
drunkenewok 06-16-05, 09:32 AM	Most of the systems I've seen that use Class Defense also use the Armor as DR rule. (SWd20 and I think WoT among them). As a result, wearing armor doesn't stack your AC to the stratosphere, and you get some benefit for wearing some armor. With all the other sources of DR in fantasy d20, you'd probably also have to rule that it stacks with any other source of DR (or people with DR, especially at the lower end, basically get screwed). One thing you might also consider is to apply the "max dex" modifier to the Class Defense + Dex modifier total. That would give the impression that Class Defense is more about how quick and agile you are at getting out of the way, and armor does tend to hamper that. I'm not sure how well that works with the standard class defense progressions presented in Unearthed Arcana, because iirc they make defense higher for the traditional tank characters. You can probably tweak the table to favor the more traditionally "quick" characters (I'd put rogues/rangers/fighters/barbarians with the highest, paladin/druid/cleric/bards with the average, and wizards/sorcerers with the lowest.) The biggest problem (as a DM) that you'll have with including these rules is the amount of extra prep time you'll have to put in. Instead of taking monters/NPCs straight out of the book, you'll have to convert them to your system (or at least take a few minutes to be sure that they don't need to be converted). Hope this helps.