Clerical titles [Archive] - Wizards Community

Clerical titles [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thramzorean
10-31-05, 12:49 AM Just wondering if there is a list of clerical titles anywhere. There's various individual references with NPCs in splatbooks and so forth but has anybody seen a list of ranked formal titles for the clergy of the Sovereign Host, the Silver Flame, etc?
MarkB
10-31-05, 11:36 AM Just wondering if there is a list of clerical titles anywhere. There's various individual references with NPCs in splatbooks and so forth but has anybody seen a list of ranked formal titles for the clergy of the Sovereign Host, the Silver Flame, etc?
I've always pictured the Church of the Silver Flame following a Roman Catholic style heirarchy. Googling that, I found this list (http://www.cylist.com/List/400300500/Roman-Catholic-Church-Clergy-Hierarchy.html):

Pope
Cardinal Bishop
Cardinal Priest
Cardinal Deacon
Archbishop
Bishop
Auxiliary Bishop
Parish Priest
Curate
Deacon
Religious orders also have a different structure.
Prior general/Abbot General/Provincial General/Friar General Provincial Prior/abbot/friar Sub Prior/Sub Abbot/ sub Friar Brother

I'd use the above list for the Silver Flame, but change Archbishop, Bishop and Auxiliary Bishop to Archierophant, Hierophant and Auxiliary Hierophant, and replace Pope with Keeper of the Silver Flame.

The Church of the Silver Flame Part 2 Dragonshard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041122a) also gives some information on church hiererchy.

For the Sovereign Host, I don't have any particular ideas, but you could look at other real-world religions, or make up a few ranks based on real ones.
The Almighty Dru
10-31-05, 01:01 PM I agree that the Silver Flame's hierarchy should somewhat resemble the Catholic Church's. After all, there is a council of cardinal and such already, so that's one that you've got. That and the Keeper of the Silver Flame. I'd try not to copy it too close though. For one, you don't want to make the Silver Flame into the Catholic Church. And second, it just seems knocked off. I remember reading a preview for one of the D&D books with the iconic characters, and Regdar referred to Jozan as "Father." I just thought it was kind of lame.

As for the Sovereign Host, I can see a generic clerical title as being "Sovereign," as in "Sovereign Jaelax." By clerical title, I mean to specify that only clerics carry this level of title, whereas the adepts of the Host have some other title. "Sovereign" seems like it gives the person a lot of importance, which seems like it should be reserved for clerics, as more powerful, more learned members of the church.
garner_adam
10-31-05, 11:15 PM Keep in mind that not every church or religion needs a heirarchy or organized structure. A priest of a god might be just that- you either are or you aren't. In my Eberron games I've had a few clerics of the Dark Six. As a thematic we have the characters take on a "The ..." in an effort to emulate the six. One of my clerics is named "The Virtue" (He's a partiuclarly insane cleric who's motive is to foster the strong and to cull the weak).

Authority can also be in direct relation to duty. "I'm the keeper of the sacred sea. This is my dominion given to me by Boldrei." That's more how I'd run the Sorveign host.
Thramzorean
11-01-05, 01:12 AM Thanks for the responses. I noted the Catholic type structure and figured the very strong lawful bent of the Silver Flame church implies it will be strictly delineated heirachy. I'm personally not too happy just dropping in a contempary structure nomenclature as the connotations of the real world church will rub off on the game one. I would rather have seen these renamed in the campaign material - then again you want something players will relate to so it's a bit of a catch 22. Also because the silver flame church has both temporal and spritual authority over Thrane I wonder how the church would differentiate the executive and eccleciastical responsibilities of the bureacracy.

I'm thinking for the Soverieign host this would not have any specific country wide organization, being more an individual structure with the temples. The temples while dedicated to a particular god of the sovereign host, being polytheistic in nature, open to all comers and generally allied together. Nomenclature could vary there as well from temple to temple but not greatly I would imagine, just shadings of particular areas of authority.

Of course the Dark Six is another question, heh. Each High Priest would be emperor of their own little spiritual empire

BTW, HAS ANYBODY SEEN A PICTURE OR STATEMENT OF WHAT THE TRAVELERS HOLY SYMBOL IS?!?!
MarkB
11-01-05, 03:28 AM BTW, HAS ANYBODY SEEN A PICTURE OR STATEMENT OF WHAT THE TRAVELERS HOLY SYMBOL IS?!?!
Nope. Common consensus is that the Traveler has approximately as many holy symbols as followers - each one comes up with their own, based on their interpretation of the faith.

My CG changeling cleric of the traveler used a symbol of a hand proffering a beautiful but thorny-stemmed rose.
Thramzorean
11-01-05, 09:05 PM Nope. Common consensus is that the Traveler has approximately as many holy symbols as followers - each one comes up with their own, based on their interpretation of the faith.

My CG changeling cleric of the traveler used a symbol of a hand proffering a beautiful but thorny-stemmed rose.
Eh?! I'm just making a chaotic good changeling cleric of the Traveler here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7604226&postcount=8) . Thus the question. :D But I've just got directed to the previous thread you've commented on that with a cross post on the cosmology board where I guess this post should have gone in the first place.

Hmm... might give the Traveler a vortex spiral... once you're on the slippery slope down...
Thwyvylyn
11-01-05, 09:45 PM In my Eberron the symbols of the Traveler change as the character moves reflecting the environment in which the symbol finds itself. A Chaotic Neutral symbol for a Diety of the same bend.
Darth Syntax
11-02-05, 02:38 AM Although I havent worked out hierarchies for all the religions in eberron, I have some conventions I go by when refering to varrious religious figures. Prelate, for example, is the catch all title for a priest of any religion in the five nations and assosiated lands. Officially (and by this I mean in my personal eberron campaign) the title of prelate began with the SH, especially the varrious orders of Aureon and the other lawful gods. When the Flame came into existence it took many of the SH titles and used them in slightly different ways. Cardinal is a title unique to the flame, while Hierophant and Archhierophant are more universal, although they might refer to different levels of the hierarchy. In the flame the rank of Hierophant is equivilent to that of Bishop in the Roman Catholic church, while the SH Hierophant is actually something more akin to an cardinal .

I use Matriarch and Patriarch for those priests of Bolderi who would be fairly high up in the organization, again a bishopesque sort of level.

When refering to martial clerics or paladins I use Praetor as the polite form address.

Following is a rough list of some of my working ideas for the COTSF. I will be using the terms "Secular Clergy" to refer to those priests and such who are not part of orders, monastic or otherwise, and "regular clergy" to refer to those who are part of an order

Hierarchy of the Church of the Silver Flame

Secular Clergy

Keeper of the Flame

High Cardinal

Elector Cardinal

Cardinal Prelate

Archhierophant

Hierophant

Prelate

Acolyte

Neophyte

Regular Clergy

Non-martial

Abbot/ Abbess

Prior / Prioress

Prelate Sib (usually a member of the Secular clergy who is attached to the order)

Cantor

Cellarer

Sib (short for sibling)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thramzorean 10-31-05, 12:49 AM	Just wondering if there is a list of clerical titles anywhere. There's various individual references with NPCs in splatbooks and so forth but has anybody seen a list of ranked formal titles for the clergy of the Sovereign Host, the Silver Flame, etc?
MarkB 10-31-05, 11:36 AM	Just wondering if there is a list of clerical titles anywhere. There's various individual references with NPCs in splatbooks and so forth but has anybody seen a list of ranked formal titles for the clergy of the Sovereign Host, the Silver Flame, etc? I've always pictured the Church of the Silver Flame following a Roman Catholic style heirarchy. Googling that, I found this list (http://www.cylist.com/List/400300500/Roman-Catholic-Church-Clergy-Hierarchy.html): Pope Cardinal Bishop Cardinal Priest Cardinal Deacon Archbishop Bishop Auxiliary Bishop Parish Priest Curate Deacon Religious orders also have a different structure. Prior general/Abbot General/Provincial General/Friar General Provincial Prior/abbot/friar Sub Prior/Sub Abbot/ sub Friar Brother I'd use the above list for the Silver Flame, but change Archbishop, Bishop and Auxiliary Bishop to Archierophant, Hierophant and Auxiliary Hierophant, and replace Pope with Keeper of the Silver Flame. The Church of the Silver Flame Part 2 Dragonshard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041122a) also gives some information on church hiererchy. For the Sovereign Host, I don't have any particular ideas, but you could look at other real-world religions, or make up a few ranks based on real ones.
The Almighty Dru 10-31-05, 01:01 PM	I agree that the Silver Flame's hierarchy should somewhat resemble the Catholic Church's. After all, there is a council of cardinal and such already, so that's one that you've got. That and the Keeper of the Silver Flame. I'd try not to copy it too close though. For one, you don't want to make the Silver Flame into the Catholic Church. And second, it just seems knocked off. I remember reading a preview for one of the D&D books with the iconic characters, and Regdar referred to Jozan as "Father." I just thought it was kind of lame. As for the Sovereign Host, I can see a generic clerical title as being "Sovereign," as in "Sovereign Jaelax." By clerical title, I mean to specify that only clerics carry this level of title, whereas the adepts of the Host have some other title. "Sovereign" seems like it gives the person a lot of importance, which seems like it should be reserved for clerics, as more powerful, more learned members of the church.
garner_adam 10-31-05, 11:15 PM	Keep in mind that not every church or religion needs a heirarchy or organized structure. A priest of a god might be just that- you either are or you aren't. In my Eberron games I've had a few clerics of the Dark Six. As a thematic we have the characters take on a "The ..." in an effort to emulate the six. One of my clerics is named "The Virtue" (He's a partiuclarly insane cleric who's motive is to foster the strong and to cull the weak). Authority can also be in direct relation to duty. "I'm the keeper of the sacred sea. This is my dominion given to me by Boldrei." That's more how I'd run the Sorveign host.
Thramzorean 11-01-05, 01:12 AM	Thanks for the responses. I noted the Catholic type structure and figured the very strong lawful bent of the Silver Flame church implies it will be strictly delineated heirachy. I'm personally not too happy just dropping in a contempary structure nomenclature as the connotations of the real world church will rub off on the game one. I would rather have seen these renamed in the campaign material - then again you want something players will relate to so it's a bit of a catch 22. Also because the silver flame church has both temporal and spritual authority over Thrane I wonder how the church would differentiate the executive and eccleciastical responsibilities of the bureacracy. I'm thinking for the Soverieign host this would not have any specific country wide organization, being more an individual structure with the temples. The temples while dedicated to a particular god of the sovereign host, being polytheistic in nature, open to all comers and generally allied together. Nomenclature could vary there as well from temple to temple but not greatly I would imagine, just shadings of particular areas of authority. Of course the Dark Six is another question, heh. Each High Priest would be emperor of their own little spiritual empire BTW, HAS ANYBODY SEEN A PICTURE OR STATEMENT OF WHAT THE TRAVELERS HOLY SYMBOL IS?!?!
MarkB 11-01-05, 03:28 AM	BTW, HAS ANYBODY SEEN A PICTURE OR STATEMENT OF WHAT THE TRAVELERS HOLY SYMBOL IS?!?! Nope. Common consensus is that the Traveler has approximately as many holy symbols as followers - each one comes up with their own, based on their interpretation of the faith. My CG changeling cleric of the traveler used a symbol of a hand proffering a beautiful but thorny-stemmed rose.
Thramzorean 11-01-05, 09:05 PM	Nope. Common consensus is that the Traveler has approximately as many holy symbols as followers - each one comes up with their own, based on their interpretation of the faith. My CG changeling cleric of the traveler used a symbol of a hand proffering a beautiful but thorny-stemmed rose. Eh?! I'm just making a chaotic good changeling cleric of the Traveler here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7604226&postcount=8) . Thus the question. :D But I've just got directed to the previous thread you've commented on that with a cross post on the cosmology board where I guess this post should have gone in the first place. Hmm... might give the Traveler a vortex spiral... once you're on the slippery slope down...
Thwyvylyn 11-01-05, 09:45 PM	In my Eberron the symbols of the Traveler change as the character moves reflecting the environment in which the symbol finds itself. A Chaotic Neutral symbol for a Diety of the same bend.
Darth Syntax 11-02-05, 02:38 AM	Although I havent worked out hierarchies for all the religions in eberron, I have some conventions I go by when refering to varrious religious figures. Prelate, for example, is the catch all title for a priest of any religion in the five nations and assosiated lands. Officially (and by this I mean in my personal eberron campaign) the title of prelate began with the SH, especially the varrious orders of Aureon and the other lawful gods. When the Flame came into existence it took many of the SH titles and used them in slightly different ways. Cardinal is a title unique to the flame, while Hierophant and Archhierophant are more universal, although they might refer to different levels of the hierarchy. In the flame the rank of Hierophant is equivilent to that of Bishop in the Roman Catholic church, while the SH Hierophant is actually something more akin to an cardinal . I use Matriarch and Patriarch for those priests of Bolderi who would be fairly high up in the organization, again a bishopesque sort of level. When refering to martial clerics or paladins I use Praetor as the polite form address. Following is a rough list of some of my working ideas for the COTSF. I will be using the terms "Secular Clergy" to refer to those priests and such who are not part of orders, monastic or otherwise, and "regular clergy" to refer to those who are part of an order Hierarchy of the Church of the Silver Flame Secular Clergy Keeper of the Flame High Cardinal Elector Cardinal Cardinal Prelate Archhierophant Hierophant Prelate Acolyte Neophyte Regular Clergy Non-martial Abbot/ Abbess Prior / Prioress Prelate Sib (usually a member of the Secular clergy who is attached to the order) Cantor Cellarer Sib (short for sibling)