Complete Psionic in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Complete Psionic in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BoneLord_of_Skullthrone
04-12-06, 04:20 PM Has anyone here looked through Complete Psionic and seen much that they liked? I want to buy it on Amazon with Tome of Magic for the discount, but I don't know if it's worth it. I am also interrested in hearing about your Eberron psionic adventures and how you like to (or want to) use this stuff in the setting.

I know a lot of you don't like the psionics system, but I think it realy is balanced if you understand it and play it as-is...completely by RAW without any modifications whatsoever. Those of you who disagree can kiss my mindblade. ;)
Kid SixXx
04-12-06, 05:45 PM Click here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8919285#post8919285) for the CPH discussion in the Classes / Races / Monsters board.

I like the book despite the fact (at first glance admittedly) that there still doesn't appear to be too many PrC's for telepaths or seers, which sorta limits Kalashtar Telepath / Seers to use of Quori Nightmare & that still strikes me as a needlessly dark PrC for the typical Kalashtar PC to use.

Soulknives have two more PrC's, but the Atavist from RoE already fits the bill, IMO.

Divine Minds are just what the doctor ordered, as I plan on subbing this class for cleric when dealing with the Kalashtar clergy of the Path of Light. I'll probably add Divine Mind levels to any Mind Flayer spiritual leaders of the Cult of the Dragon Below as well.
Azazyll
04-13-06, 02:37 AM I don't have the book yet (my thesis is due in less than 36 hours, and I'm very proud of my self control), but I have to say that the comment on no telepath prestige classes makes me happy, because it meant there was more room for other ways for psionics to progress. I was very afraid that was all we were going to get out of the kalashtar in the way of psions after RoE had the specifically psion substitution levels and the quori nightmare. The telepath discipline is already way overpowered with access to by far the largest number of discipline only powers. I'm glad the other varieties of psion are getting their chance to shine (particularly the shapers it sounds like).

The divine themed psionic classes are also very welcome. How well do the not-so-subtly-repackaged kalashtar (I mean "host") feats look? do the new ones (not just re-published racial kalashtar feats) blend well with the Kalashtar fluff?
Rechan
04-13-06, 07:14 AM The one thing that I think will likely have some problems integrating into Eberron would be the Houses.
ekomega
04-13-06, 10:36 PM The Host feats are either kinda lame or kinda cool, depending on the feat. A lot of them just give you a few spell-like abilities.

Some of them are really neat if there's an all kalashtar party, or all Inspired enemies. These feats give bonuses to certain features (saves, etc.) based on the number of other hosts in the area.

I'm in the middle about the book. It's cool, but they repeat a lot of powers (if not all?) from the XPH. I really like the base classes and some of the prestige classes.

There are very few general feats, and several racial feats for each race.
Seth of the First Brigade
04-17-06, 02:40 PM Has anyone here looked through Complete Psionic and seen much that they liked? I want to buy it on Amazon with Tome of Magic for the discount, but I don't know if it's worth it. I am also interrested in hearing about your Eberron psionic adventures and how you like to (or want to) use this stuff in the setting.

I know a lot of you don't like the psionics system, but I think it realy is balanced if you understand it and play it as-is...completely by RAW without any modifications whatsoever. Those of you who disagree can kiss my mindblade. ;)

I just typically go to a book store like a Borders or Barns and Noble, or your local gaming store and take several days to just hang out there and read the books, once I get a good sense of whether the book is good or not, or whether it meets the needs of my campaign I go online and buy it. Then from time to time, I just go back to the same stores and read the books there until my copy arrives, also if I can find a download online I download it as well, I have however called WotC and asked permission to do so. My personal belief is if I have purchased the book then I have the right to keep an electronic copy. I do NOT however download any books that I have not purchased, nor do I distribute my downloaded copies, they are for my records only, and from time to time if I need to give my players a blurb from a book that I dont want them looking at, it comes in handy to be able to copy and paste whatever flavor or information pieces I need to give them. Hope that helps.
BoneLord_of_Skullthrone
04-18-06, 01:03 AM That's actually a pretty good idea. Thanks. :)
Pinky's brain
04-18-06, 01:06 AM I'm glad the other varieties of psion are getting their chance to shine (particularly the shapers it sounds like).Im told they nerfed astral construct ...
Atlictoatl
04-22-06, 01:35 PM I just typically go to a book store like a Borders or Barns and Noble, or your local gaming store and take several days to just hang out there and read the books, once I get a good sense of whether the book is good or not, or whether it meets the needs of my campaign I go online and buy it. Then from time to time, I just go back to the same stores and read the books there until my copy arrives, also if I can find a download online I download it as well, I have however called WotC and asked permission to do so. My personal belief is if I have purchased the book then I have the right to keep an electronic copy. I do NOT however download any books that I have not purchased, nor do I distribute my downloaded copies, they are for my records only, and from time to time if I need to give my players a blurb from a book that I dont want them looking at, it comes in handy to be able to copy and paste whatever flavor or information pieces I need to give them. Hope that helps.I'm sure nobody here needs a lecture, but it kills me, as a local gaming store, when people do this. Local gaming stores do a lot for the local community, and it's well worth supporting them over some anonymous internet retailer who only takes your money and cares nothing for the hobby.

Please mention to your local store that you'd love to buy books there, but the discount you get online is just too good. In my store, I'll do my best to compete with online merchants, and I have the added advantage of putting the book in your hands the day it is released, not weeks later. If your local store is smart, they'll do whatever they can to get your business, but they need to know that you are shopping elsewhere in order to offer you an incentive.

:)
PoeticJustice
04-24-06, 11:47 AM Just wanted to second Alictoatl message: Buy from local game stores if you buy at all. If you're a student they can typically offer a 10% discount. Also, if you attend a public university, ask your student services program about starting a gaming club. Once you're approved, you can request funds from the university which must be spent on gaming.
I've made lots of friends through my FLGS, I've been over to the owners' house and we've even gone drinking together. Cheap books from Amazon don't add up to that.
SpaceShot
04-24-06, 06:19 PM I want to chirp in and say that I liked the tone and delivery of Alictoatl's plea to keep local gaming stores in business. Most times this message is simply, "Suck it up and pay more because it's immoral to save money and buy online and it's immoral to read the book and see if you want to spend your limited hard-earned cash on it!"

Alictoatl recognizes that we can save money online, and does his best to compete in the marketplace. I wish your store the best.

Now, to say something on topic, I do think since I integrated the XPH into Eberron (as suggested by the setting) that it did really enhance the campaign. I was leery of a kitchen-sink type approach in D&D (i've never utilized psionics) where there's magic and psionics and who knows what else. I am unsure if anything from Complete Psionic will make it in, simply because I'm not much of a fan of Prestige Classes. I also think the new classes are a little too tightly tied into the new material, so I can't do something like "Well, the new classes are available, but that's about it." This is unlike Complete Adventurer where you could lift a class like Scout and just drop it in without anything else.
astute1
04-24-06, 08:24 PM they need to know that you are shopping elsewhere in order to offer you an incentive.
They need me to tell them that Amazon is undercutting their prices by 33%?

As for complete psionic - if you like the other "complete" books, you'll probably like it. It's chock full of new classes, new feats, new powers, etc. There's a few powers that have been nicely errata'd from the XPH (read: energy missile & energy stun.)

The new classes seem really nice, although probably a notch below the psion or wilder in terms of raw power. The Erudite is toned down from his Dragon magazine appearence, but still seems like he'd be unbalancing at high levels.

As far as psionics and Eberron, I have a "kalashtar only" rule on psionics in my campaign. I've had one person play a psion so far, and he was the resident powergamer, so of course his build was hideously overpowered. We'll see how things go in the next campaign.
Azazyll
04-25-06, 01:58 AM I think the houses could fit even in eberron. You can say that they fled the daelkyr invasion of their own world, even make that the world the gith originally came from. They might have arrived on Sarlona just before the Daelkyr war happened on Khorvaire, thus providing a link between psionics and sarlona long before the arrival of the kalashtar. They could even have emigrated to khorvaire, sensing the approach of the Quori and the coming of the inspired, thus giving a place to psionics on khorvaire without using the kalashtar. Granted, I love the kalashtar, but I often get frustrated by the way that it feels that if you want to be a psion with any tradtion at all you have to either be a kalashtar or a dragon below cultist. The houses could provide another option, and their interactions with other entities of khorvaire, like the antions and dragonmarked houses, could be very interesting. You could say they don't come up in any of the books because they are so well hidden.

Other than that, most of the book is great. They did nerf astral construct, and from looking at the forums the thing that makes me most mad is that it appears to be a concession to WotC's current move towards mini gaming and stream-lining of the combat system. That's not reason, in my opinion, to give a hard rule to nerf a power. Summon monster spells can be used over and over again, or even summon multiple monsters at a time (something AC already can't do). Why whould psions be penalized? the new construct ectopic forms do not make up for it, they are in fact rather lame. The illthid feats are great, and the image of a blue (goblin) with two tentacle tongues from those feats certainly inspired me with all kinds of ideas for the degenerates of dhakaan. I'm not sure how playable the ardent and divine mind are (or the lurk for that matter) but they do seem to fit a good role with kalashtar who want to be psionic but display a greater affinity for the Path of Light. The feats are in general fantastic, and while the psionic powers have a very different feel in some places from what psionics has been like before, they still have a feel all their own (in general) and are a welcome addition to the unique flavor of psionics in the game.

On the FLGS issue, I have to say, I love my FLGS' (both of them in town) and whenever I wouldn't get a deal on amazon (games workshop products, adventures, and some other items) I buy from them. Sometimes I even buy from my FLGS when I really want the book early, although I've ntoiced they often get it behind amazon where I live. But as a student with a very limited income who buys pretty much every book that comes out (and basically no other luxury purchases of any kind), I can't ignore the huge discount on stuff that amazon can give. even a ten percent discount isn't competive with thirty percent, particularly with the forty dollar books. I appreciate how hard this is on FLGS and bookstores in general, and when the prices are comparable I try to always go to a FLGS over amazon, but the sad fact is that for some of us it just doesn't make economic sense to do so in most cases.
Ryuu_Tenshi
04-26-06, 01:33 PM I can't imagine NOT buying from our FLGS. The people there are awesome and it's literally the only interesting thing in this god-forsaken town. Furthermore, not only do they give a 10% discount to all students of this college, they ALSO have periodic HUGE SALES with up to 50% off. Furthermore they often have incredibly obscure or out-of-print books (Like Old World of Darkness o.O ) And lastly, they are the best-organized gaming/comic book store I've ever seen. all the Complete books are lined up next to each other in a neat row, all the Eberron books are together, the core set is on its own shelf, the Races books get their own shelf... it's fantabulous.
That and they also have things like comic books.
The only reason I don't buy from them is that I have no money AT ALL. I almost bought Races of the Dragon last time, except that I can't even afford to get stuff from Amazon. So... yeah. But they still win forever.
Atlictoatl
04-26-06, 04:31 PM My apologies for highjacking the thread with my comments. Thanks to others for chiming in, and thanks SpaceShot, for your kind words.

On topic, I'll say that Complete Psionic, IMO, works best for new characters. I'm currently playing a 6th-level changeling Telepath, and there wasn't much in there that I found useful for my specific character. Had I had the book when I made the character, though, I would have considered the Synad as a race, and some of the core classes. As for Eberron, there's not much content that wouldn't work in Eberron, but the book is firmly centered in the gith / thri-kreen / duergar world of psionics instead of the kalashtar / changeling / quori world.

They need me to tell them that Amazon is undercutting their prices by 33%?My comment was that, in order to have any possibility of a competitive discount from your FLGS, you have to let them know that you would like to shop there but can't justify it.

I have people in my store all day looking at books. I have to assume they are in my store as customers. When they don't make purchases, it can be for any number of reasons, but I can't walk up to each one and say, "You're probably buying online, aren't you? You want a 15% discount today?"

If, however, someone I see in my store every once in a while comes up to me and says, "Man, I'd really love to pick my books up from you, but the discount at Amazon is just too good" we can get into a conversation. Depending on the circumstances, I might offer him a discount of anywhere from 10-25%. But I can only offer that to him if he tells me that he isn't currently a customer, otherwise I'm undermining my normal sales.

As to the cost effectiveness, Amazon is selling Complete Psionic for $18.87 + shipping. If I give you a 20% discount, for $5.00 more you can have the book the day it comes out. If you only want the one book, that's comparable to buying it from Amazon. One of the ways Amazon gets you is by making you buy more than one book in order to get free shipping -- so you get stuck either buying a book you don't absolutely need, or you wait a few months to buy two books you absolutely want. You don't get that problem at a FLGS, so it might be worth talking to them to see if they are able to offer a discount.

Keep in mind that not every place can offer a discount. Overhead is different for everybody, so don't think they're cheap jerks if they can't do the kind of discount I'm talking about. Know also that Amazon operates at a loss (or at least they did last time I checked), so their cheap, cheap prices aren't reflective of the reality of doing business.

[/soapbox]
Amaril
05-21-06, 10:45 PM The one thing that I think will likely have some problems integrating into Eberron would be the Houses.
I'm just now starting to dig deeply into Eberron, but I think the psionic houses fit well with the history of the humans of Sarlona. The presence of such birthmarks in Khorvaire humans who have ancestral blood from the humans of Sarlona adds more weight to the threat of the Inspired in Khorvaire. It would make an intersting additional layer of depth for some human psions to still secretly associate with those houses without the rest of the world knowing that they exist. Imagine an Underworld with psions instead of vampires and werewolves with house alliances and enemies who are all hunted by the Inspired.
DarkWarriorKarg
05-23-06, 10:01 AM Im told they nerfed astral construct ...

Yes. And not for any valid balance issue. Simply because some incompetent DMs whined about multiple astral constructs being summoned during the same combat.

They then create a gimped Constructor class (Ectopic adept) that breaks said rule change.

I bought the book & felt somewhat cheated.

Apart from feats & some PrCs, the book is mostly useless for my game.

It's products like these that encourage people to NOT buy the books.
Thanqol
05-23-06, 10:02 PM I don't buy from FLGS because it's a half-hour drive (or hour long bus ride) into the city to get to my closest place. Don't get me wrong, the atmosphere rawks, but it's just inacessable. Can't wait for my copy of CS to get here.
kelvinaw273
05-24-06, 12:16 AM Well, I got and I was impressed and surprised by the new core classes. The Ardent and the Divine Mind are well worth investigating and fit the kalashtar mould very well indeed. The Lurk I was less sure about ... essentially a psychic rogue, I am not sure it was necessary, but it looked OK. The ideas of Mantles to construct a powers list means that the divine-based psionics have very limited powers lists, but at the same time lots of bonus abilities.

The 'hosts' feats ... I can't say I was impressed, I had seen some before in the Races of Eberron and Eberron source book, the remainder ... well I can't say that I saw anything that jumped out and said "You need this feat!" unlike when I read complete psionic and saw the Psionic Fist feat tree for my Monk. Likewise I was lukewarm on some of the PrCs. I had been told the Zerth Cenobyte was an excelent Monk PrC, but I wouldn't choose it over Fist of Zuoken, especially with some of the new powers in the Psychic Warrior lists. It's still one to watch, but I would take FoZ first - they get more powers and power points by a long way, if not the special abilities.
Thramzorean
05-24-06, 09:24 AM There's plenty of useful stuff in there. And plenty to leave out if you want. Enough has been said about the base classed ardent and divine mind - these are the known hits of the book. The lurk's a character I think people will be surprised how good it is once they actually play it. It can look pretty bare until you realize that with the +2 level augment feat you get access to all sorts of neat abilities real quick, a 3rd level lurk can rock and a kalashtar lurk would be bad news.

The soulknife PrCs are excellent and absolutely worth bringing in. Plenty of use for undead hunting and ranged classes. A bunch of the feats have their place.

But you have to have some interest in psionics to want to buy it. If you're Eberron first and psionics second there are, unfortunately, better purchases available if you're budget watching (and that's pretty much the first time I've ever said that about any WotC book)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BoneLord_of_Skullthrone 04-12-06, 04:20 PM	Has anyone here looked through Complete Psionic and seen much that they liked? I want to buy it on Amazon with Tome of Magic for the discount, but I don't know if it's worth it. I am also interrested in hearing about your Eberron psionic adventures and how you like to (or want to) use this stuff in the setting. I know a lot of you don't like the psionics system, but I think it realy is balanced if you understand it and play it as-is...completely by RAW without any modifications whatsoever. Those of you who disagree can kiss my mindblade. ;)
Kid SixXx 04-12-06, 05:45 PM	Click here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8919285#post8919285) for the CPH discussion in the Classes / Races / Monsters board. I like the book despite the fact (at first glance admittedly) that there still doesn't appear to be too many PrC's for telepaths or seers, which sorta limits Kalashtar Telepath / Seers to use of Quori Nightmare & that still strikes me as a needlessly dark PrC for the typical Kalashtar PC to use. Soulknives have two more PrC's, but the Atavist from RoE already fits the bill, IMO. Divine Minds are just what the doctor ordered, as I plan on subbing this class for cleric when dealing with the Kalashtar clergy of the Path of Light. I'll probably add Divine Mind levels to any Mind Flayer spiritual leaders of the Cult of the Dragon Below as well.
Azazyll 04-13-06, 02:37 AM	I don't have the book yet (my thesis is due in less than 36 hours, and I'm very proud of my self control), but I have to say that the comment on no telepath prestige classes makes me happy, because it meant there was more room for other ways for psionics to progress. I was very afraid that was all we were going to get out of the kalashtar in the way of psions after RoE had the specifically psion substitution levels and the quori nightmare. The telepath discipline is already way overpowered with access to by far the largest number of discipline only powers. I'm glad the other varieties of psion are getting their chance to shine (particularly the shapers it sounds like). The divine themed psionic classes are also very welcome. How well do the not-so-subtly-repackaged kalashtar (I mean "host") feats look? do the new ones (not just re-published racial kalashtar feats) blend well with the Kalashtar fluff?
Rechan 04-13-06, 07:14 AM	The one thing that I think will likely have some problems integrating into Eberron would be the Houses.
ekomega 04-13-06, 10:36 PM	The Host feats are either kinda lame or kinda cool, depending on the feat. A lot of them just give you a few spell-like abilities. Some of them are really neat if there's an all kalashtar party, or all Inspired enemies. These feats give bonuses to certain features (saves, etc.) based on the number of other hosts in the area. I'm in the middle about the book. It's cool, but they repeat a lot of powers (if not all?) from the XPH. I really like the base classes and some of the prestige classes. There are very few general feats, and several racial feats for each race.
Seth of the First Brigade 04-17-06, 02:40 PM	Has anyone here looked through Complete Psionic and seen much that they liked? I want to buy it on Amazon with Tome of Magic for the discount, but I don't know if it's worth it. I am also interrested in hearing about your Eberron psionic adventures and how you like to (or want to) use this stuff in the setting. I know a lot of you don't like the psionics system, but I think it realy is balanced if you understand it and play it as-is...completely by RAW without any modifications whatsoever. Those of you who disagree can kiss my mindblade. ;) I just typically go to a book store like a Borders or Barns and Noble, or your local gaming store and take several days to just hang out there and read the books, once I get a good sense of whether the book is good or not, or whether it meets the needs of my campaign I go online and buy it. Then from time to time, I just go back to the same stores and read the books there until my copy arrives, also if I can find a download online I download it as well, I have however called WotC and asked permission to do so. My personal belief is if I have purchased the book then I have the right to keep an electronic copy. I do NOT however download any books that I have not purchased, nor do I distribute my downloaded copies, they are for my records only, and from time to time if I need to give my players a blurb from a book that I dont want them looking at, it comes in handy to be able to copy and paste whatever flavor or information pieces I need to give them. Hope that helps.
BoneLord_of_Skullthrone 04-18-06, 01:03 AM	That's actually a pretty good idea. Thanks. :)
Pinky's brain 04-18-06, 01:06 AM	I'm glad the other varieties of psion are getting their chance to shine (particularly the shapers it sounds like).Im told they nerfed astral construct ...
Atlictoatl 04-22-06, 01:35 PM	I just typically go to a book store like a Borders or Barns and Noble, or your local gaming store and take several days to just hang out there and read the books, once I get a good sense of whether the book is good or not, or whether it meets the needs of my campaign I go online and buy it. Then from time to time, I just go back to the same stores and read the books there until my copy arrives, also if I can find a download online I download it as well, I have however called WotC and asked permission to do so. My personal belief is if I have purchased the book then I have the right to keep an electronic copy. I do NOT however download any books that I have not purchased, nor do I distribute my downloaded copies, they are for my records only, and from time to time if I need to give my players a blurb from a book that I dont want them looking at, it comes in handy to be able to copy and paste whatever flavor or information pieces I need to give them. Hope that helps.I'm sure nobody here needs a lecture, but it kills me, as a local gaming store, when people do this. Local gaming stores do a lot for the local community, and it's well worth supporting them over some anonymous internet retailer who only takes your money and cares nothing for the hobby. Please mention to your local store that you'd love to buy books there, but the discount you get online is just too good. In my store, I'll do my best to compete with online merchants, and I have the added advantage of putting the book in your hands the day it is released, not weeks later. If your local store is smart, they'll do whatever they can to get your business, but they need to know that you are shopping elsewhere in order to offer you an incentive. :)
PoeticJustice 04-24-06, 11:47 AM	Just wanted to second Alictoatl message: Buy from local game stores if you buy at all. If you're a student they can typically offer a 10% discount. Also, if you attend a public university, ask your student services program about starting a gaming club. Once you're approved, you can request funds from the university which must be spent on gaming. I've made lots of friends through my FLGS, I've been over to the owners' house and we've even gone drinking together. Cheap books from Amazon don't add up to that.
SpaceShot 04-24-06, 06:19 PM	I want to chirp in and say that I liked the tone and delivery of Alictoatl's plea to keep local gaming stores in business. Most times this message is simply, "Suck it up and pay more because it's immoral to save money and buy online and it's immoral to read the book and see if you want to spend your limited hard-earned cash on it!" Alictoatl recognizes that we can save money online, and does his best to compete in the marketplace. I wish your store the best. Now, to say something on topic, I do think since I integrated the XPH into Eberron (as suggested by the setting) that it did really enhance the campaign. I was leery of a kitchen-sink type approach in D&D (i've never utilized psionics) where there's magic and psionics and who knows what else. I am unsure if anything from Complete Psionic will make it in, simply because I'm not much of a fan of Prestige Classes. I also think the new classes are a little too tightly tied into the new material, so I can't do something like "Well, the new classes are available, but that's about it." This is unlike Complete Adventurer where you could lift a class like Scout and just drop it in without anything else.
astute1 04-24-06, 08:24 PM	they need to know that you are shopping elsewhere in order to offer you an incentive. They need me to tell them that Amazon is undercutting their prices by 33%? As for complete psionic - if you like the other "complete" books, you'll probably like it. It's chock full of new classes, new feats, new powers, etc. There's a few powers that have been nicely errata'd from the XPH (read: energy missile & energy stun.) The new classes seem really nice, although probably a notch below the psion or wilder in terms of raw power. The Erudite is toned down from his Dragon magazine appearence, but still seems like he'd be unbalancing at high levels. As far as psionics and Eberron, I have a "kalashtar only" rule on psionics in my campaign. I've had one person play a psion so far, and he was the resident powergamer, so of course his build was hideously overpowered. We'll see how things go in the next campaign.
Azazyll 04-25-06, 01:58 AM	I think the houses could fit even in eberron. You can say that they fled the daelkyr invasion of their own world, even make that the world the gith originally came from. They might have arrived on Sarlona just before the Daelkyr war happened on Khorvaire, thus providing a link between psionics and sarlona long before the arrival of the kalashtar. They could even have emigrated to khorvaire, sensing the approach of the Quori and the coming of the inspired, thus giving a place to psionics on khorvaire without using the kalashtar. Granted, I love the kalashtar, but I often get frustrated by the way that it feels that if you want to be a psion with any tradtion at all you have to either be a kalashtar or a dragon below cultist. The houses could provide another option, and their interactions with other entities of khorvaire, like the antions and dragonmarked houses, could be very interesting. You could say they don't come up in any of the books because they are so well hidden. Other than that, most of the book is great. They did nerf astral construct, and from looking at the forums the thing that makes me most mad is that it appears to be a concession to WotC's current move towards mini gaming and stream-lining of the combat system. That's not reason, in my opinion, to give a hard rule to nerf a power. Summon monster spells can be used over and over again, or even summon multiple monsters at a time (something AC already can't do). Why whould psions be penalized? the new construct ectopic forms do not make up for it, they are in fact rather lame. The illthid feats are great, and the image of a blue (goblin) with two tentacle tongues from those feats certainly inspired me with all kinds of ideas for the degenerates of dhakaan. I'm not sure how playable the ardent and divine mind are (or the lurk for that matter) but they do seem to fit a good role with kalashtar who want to be psionic but display a greater affinity for the Path of Light. The feats are in general fantastic, and while the psionic powers have a very different feel in some places from what psionics has been like before, they still have a feel all their own (in general) and are a welcome addition to the unique flavor of psionics in the game. On the FLGS issue, I have to say, I love my FLGS' (both of them in town) and whenever I wouldn't get a deal on amazon (games workshop products, adventures, and some other items) I buy from them. Sometimes I even buy from my FLGS when I really want the book early, although I've ntoiced they often get it behind amazon where I live. But as a student with a very limited income who buys pretty much every book that comes out (and basically no other luxury purchases of any kind), I can't ignore the huge discount on stuff that amazon can give. even a ten percent discount isn't competive with thirty percent, particularly with the forty dollar books. I appreciate how hard this is on FLGS and bookstores in general, and when the prices are comparable I try to always go to a FLGS over amazon, but the sad fact is that for some of us it just doesn't make economic sense to do so in most cases.
Ryuu_Tenshi 04-26-06, 01:33 PM	I can't imagine NOT buying from our FLGS. The people there are awesome and it's literally the only interesting thing in this god-forsaken town. Furthermore, not only do they give a 10% discount to all students of this college, they ALSO have periodic HUGE SALES with up to 50% off. Furthermore they often have incredibly obscure or out-of-print books (Like Old World of Darkness o.O ) And lastly, they are the best-organized gaming/comic book store I've ever seen. all the Complete books are lined up next to each other in a neat row, all the Eberron books are together, the core set is on its own shelf, the Races books get their own shelf... it's fantabulous. That and they also have things like comic books. The only reason I don't buy from them is that I have no money AT ALL. I almost bought Races of the Dragon last time, except that I can't even afford to get stuff from Amazon. So... yeah. But they still win forever.
Atlictoatl 04-26-06, 04:31 PM	My apologies for highjacking the thread with my comments. Thanks to others for chiming in, and thanks SpaceShot, for your kind words. On topic, I'll say that Complete Psionic, IMO, works best for new characters. I'm currently playing a 6th-level changeling Telepath, and there wasn't much in there that I found useful for my specific character. Had I had the book when I made the character, though, I would have considered the Synad as a race, and some of the core classes. As for Eberron, there's not much content that wouldn't work in Eberron, but the book is firmly centered in the gith / thri-kreen / duergar world of psionics instead of the kalashtar / changeling / quori world. They need me to tell them that Amazon is undercutting their prices by 33%?My comment was that, in order to have any possibility of a competitive discount from your FLGS, you have to let them know that you would like to shop there but can't justify it. I have people in my store all day looking at books. I have to assume they are in my store as customers. When they don't make purchases, it can be for any number of reasons, but I can't walk up to each one and say, "You're probably buying online, aren't you? You want a 15% discount today?" If, however, someone I see in my store every once in a while comes up to me and says, "Man, I'd really love to pick my books up from you, but the discount at Amazon is just too good" we can get into a conversation. Depending on the circumstances, I might offer him a discount of anywhere from 10-25%. But I can only offer that to him if he tells me that he isn't currently a customer, otherwise I'm undermining my normal sales. As to the cost effectiveness, Amazon is selling Complete Psionic for $18.87 + shipping. If I give you a 20% discount, for $5.00 more you can have the book the day it comes out. If you only want the one book, that's comparable to buying it from Amazon. One of the ways Amazon gets you is by making you buy more than one book in order to get free shipping -- so you get stuck either buying a book you don't absolutely need, or you wait a few months to buy two books you absolutely want. You don't get that problem at a FLGS, so it might be worth talking to them to see if they are able to offer a discount. Keep in mind that not every place can offer a discount. Overhead is different for everybody, so don't think they're cheap jerks if they can't do the kind of discount I'm talking about. Know also that Amazon operates at a loss (or at least they did last time I checked), so their cheap, cheap prices aren't reflective of the reality of doing business. [/soapbox]
Amaril 05-21-06, 10:45 PM	The one thing that I think will likely have some problems integrating into Eberron would be the Houses. I'm just now starting to dig deeply into Eberron, but I think the psionic houses fit well with the history of the humans of Sarlona. The presence of such birthmarks in Khorvaire humans who have ancestral blood from the humans of Sarlona adds more weight to the threat of the Inspired in Khorvaire. It would make an intersting additional layer of depth for some human psions to still secretly associate with those houses without the rest of the world knowing that they exist. Imagine an Underworld with psions instead of vampires and werewolves with house alliances and enemies who are all hunted by the Inspired.
DarkWarriorKarg 05-23-06, 10:01 AM	Im told they nerfed astral construct ... Yes. And not for any valid balance issue. Simply because some incompetent DMs whined about multiple astral constructs being summoned during the same combat. They then create a gimped Constructor class (Ectopic adept) that breaks said rule change. I bought the book & felt somewhat cheated. Apart from feats & some PrCs, the book is mostly useless for my game. It's products like these that encourage people to NOT buy the books.
Thanqol 05-23-06, 10:02 PM	I don't buy from FLGS because it's a half-hour drive (or hour long bus ride) into the city to get to my closest place. Don't get me wrong, the atmosphere rawks, but it's just inacessable. Can't wait for my copy of CS to get here.
kelvinaw273 05-24-06, 12:16 AM	Well, I got and I was impressed and surprised by the new core classes. The Ardent and the Divine Mind are well worth investigating and fit the kalashtar mould very well indeed. The Lurk I was less sure about ... essentially a psychic rogue, I am not sure it was necessary, but it looked OK. The ideas of Mantles to construct a powers list means that the divine-based psionics have very limited powers lists, but at the same time lots of bonus abilities. The 'hosts' feats ... I can't say I was impressed, I had seen some before in the Races of Eberron and Eberron source book, the remainder ... well I can't say that I saw anything that jumped out and said "You need this feat!" unlike when I read complete psionic and saw the Psionic Fist feat tree for my Monk. Likewise I was lukewarm on some of the PrCs. I had been told the Zerth Cenobyte was an excelent Monk PrC, but I wouldn't choose it over Fist of Zuoken, especially with some of the new powers in the Psychic Warrior lists. It's still one to watch, but I would take FoZ first - they get more powers and power points by a long way, if not the special abilities.
Thramzorean 05-24-06, 09:24 AM	There's plenty of useful stuff in there. And plenty to leave out if you want. Enough has been said about the base classed ardent and divine mind - these are the known hits of the book. The lurk's a character I think people will be surprised how good it is once they actually play it. It can look pretty bare until you realize that with the +2 level augment feat you get access to all sorts of neat abilities real quick, a 3rd level lurk can rock and a kalashtar lurk would be bad news. The soulknife PrCs are excellent and absolutely worth bringing in. Plenty of use for undead hunting and ranged classes. A bunch of the feats have their place. But you have to have some interest in psionics to want to buy it. If you're Eberron first and psionics second there are, unfortunately, better purchases available if you're budget watching (and that's pretty much the first time I've ever said that about any WotC book)