Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Brianish 11-22-04, 10:44 AM	So what's the general consensus? Is Merrix D.Cannith Neutral (pg. 45) or Lawful Evil (pg. 112)? Is Gath a level 7 cleric (pg. 104) or a level 14 Cleric (also pg. 104)? Gath, at least, I can figure is a level 14, since he's a lich, and has to be 11 at least. Merrix I'm still curious on. The descriptions about how he wants to help warforged make me lean towards neutral, but I'm still not sure. There was a third contradiction that I've since forgotten.
Bubba333 11-22-04, 10:53 AM	As for Merrix I'm going for Neutral. I don't want to fall into shtick of "The Evil Overlord" for anyone of power and plan to keep him a good guy...at least if you're on his side! ;) As to what to do about the lich levels, I'd go for what you're campaign needs.
My Lego 11-22-04, 11:23 AM	Merrix is LE in the ECS so I would have to go with LE.
Brianish 11-22-04, 11:34 AM	I was looking in the ECS to see if his alignment was listed, but I didn't find it. I looked at the insert by the Warforged Racial Entry. Where was he?
LazarusX 11-22-04, 12:01 PM	I was looking in the ECS to see if his alignment was listed, but I didn't find it. I looked at the insert by the Warforged Racial Entry. Where was he? Pretty sure he's in the House Cannith section in the back of the book. My DM has the ECS atm; but i'm pretty sure the 3 significant Cannith leaders are presented there.
spamfiltre 11-22-04, 12:01 PM	As for Merrix I'm going for Neutral. I don't want to fall into shtick of "The Evil Overlord" for anyone of power and plan to keep him a good guy...at least if you're on his side! ;) I mentioned this in another thread recently - Evil doesn't mean not doing good deeds. He could be helping warforged, feeding the hungry, and healing the sick, but if he's Evil, he's doing it to further his own goals, not because he is altruistic. This is especially true of LE. He'll by the rules because they protect him from all of the LG people who would oppose him if they knew what he were up to, so he's willing to play nice, at least on the surface.
JabBond 11-22-04, 12:12 PM	There are a few: Daca, the gnome saint, is listed as a paladin in the area intro, but her sidebar lists her as a commonor or expert, I believe. Either way, the saint bit is most important... Even the ECS has a few boo-boos. Like my character's hometown in Zilargo: is it Zalanberg, or Zolanberg? Map and paragraph are different. I just always make the excuse that it's a mistranslation from the Dwarven script. I figure, just go with what fits your campaign the best, alignment, level, whatever. After all, it should be a fluid campaign world.
jonthegm 11-22-04, 12:26 PM	Page 144 of the ECS has Merrix listed as LE.
Bubba333 11-22-04, 02:32 PM	I see him being selfish and self-serving as more neutral than evil, but that's just me. In the end I don't feel it really matters as alignments are so malleable to begin with. I also use the "Detect ______" spells from Dragon, so Detect Evil/Good aren't really an issue either.
Dauntless 11-23-04, 03:31 AM	I have no problem having him being evil without him actually doing much in the way of actual evil acts. In my game, I take the shades of gray to heart, and essentially have shifted where the line dividing Neutral and Evil lies, so the population is much more evenly divided on the G/N/E axis. Someone who is selfish, self-serving, and out for only themselves might technically be neutral in most games, but in my Eberron game I would make them slightly evil depending on the situation. The end result is that many more average people detect as evil than in a standard DnD game (though I've fudged the aura strength table to make up for this) and players can't just assume "Oh he's evil, he must be a bad guy!" In my game, Merrix will likely be right on the edge between LN and LE.
Ycore Rixle 11-26-04, 03:39 AM	IIRC, there also seems to be a contradiction between the Sharn sourcebook and Keith Baker's recent Dungeon adventure module (can't remember the title, unfortunately) concerning the fall of the Glass Tower. I believe the Sharn book says that the tower fell as the result of abjurer saboteurs, while Keith's adventure in Dungeon gives an entirely different reason (which I'm not mentioning so as to avoid spoilers).
Brastan 11-26-04, 04:50 AM	As always when a discrepancy or dual explanations are give assume that both could be true. Is the Lord of Blades a raving Zealot or the Benevolent Benefactor of the Mournland? Both of the Lord of Blades could still be true, even give his line listing. Was the Crystal Tower brought down by sabotage as many believe or was some other force responsible? These misconceptions had half trues provide the best DM tool of any setting. Even if players know the setting front to back they may still have an unexpected twist awaiting them which is still a part of the setting and not exclusive modified by the DM. As long as there are not serious contradictions, like the Lord of Blades actually being a Gnome or something, its still good.
Alexius D'Cannith 11-26-04, 07:41 AM	just because its accepted fact that it was saboteurs dosnt mean their right and it wasnt something else, and vica versa, after all its a commonly accepted fact that Christopher Columbus discovered america, common opinion is wrong of course, as it was Amerigo Vespucci (assuming you ignore Lief Erikson) In ancient Greece it was comonly accepted that everything was made of combinations of earth air fire and water and that the sun went round the world and not the other way around In short never believe anything that is commonly accepted its usually wrong
Blizzard_Bobsan 11-26-04, 08:40 AM	I see him being selfish and self-serving as more neutral than evil, but that's just me. In the end I don't feel it really matters as alignments are so malleable to begin with. I also use the "Detect ______" spells from Dragon, so Detect Evil/Good aren't really an issue either. Totally off-topic, but can you tell me about this spells (you may do so on PM, not to spam the thread).
Gez 11-26-04, 09:24 AM	after all its a commonly accepted fact that Christopher Columbus discovered america, common opinion is wrong of course, as it was Amerigo Vespucci (assuming you ignore Lief Erikson) Columbus only discovered Cuba or some other islands, not the continents themselves, but Amerigo Vespucci didn't "discover" the Americas, either. (Although he did explore South America, notably around the Amazon.) Anyway, America was discovered by Chinese Buddhist monks before it was discovered by Erikson. They called it Fu Sang or Fusang. And even before, it had been discovered by those who would then be considered the natives of this land.
Ashfallen 11-26-04, 10:53 AM	There's discrepancies left to make room for individual interpretation, and then there's insufficient editing. I think it's option B. Although to be fair, there aren't a lot of errors in Sharn, City of Towers. The web enhancement's much worse for inconsistency. To the question at hand, Merrix is LE and yet he helps the warforged. How exactly is he helping the warforged? "He has been trying to help the living constructs adapt." That doesn't mean a lot. Could be anything from publishing a pamphlet of vague suggestions, through to business establishment loans and free psychotherapy. Up to you. IMC, he's willing to talk to any warforged who he doesn't actually dislike, if he has time, and in the course of that conversation he will make helpful suggestions and try to explain confusing things the fleshies do if the question isn't too involved. He'll suggest reading material and write a letter of introduction to the Morgrave University library for a warforged who seems intelligent and who is not likely to offend the librarians. If he has dealt with a warforged several times he will consider writing a letter of introduction to help that person to get identity papers, if he approves of the reason they want the papers. He will employ warforged at minimum wages doing menial work, but will encourage these employees to better themselves and leave his employ. For his purposes, there's always more. He will facilitate (but charge market rate for) construction and installation of components and other warforged-specific items. He will provide sanctuary for a warforged pursued by the authorities, in a similar manner to sanctuary provided by a priest: basically, he'll only hand the warforged over after negotiating with the authorities to ensure the prisoner is given a chance to explain and is treated fairly. In such a situation he will take note of who the officers are and will leave them with the strong impression that if things go badly for the warforged in a legally unsupportable manner, then those officers will answer for it (and Merrix probably has a pretty high Intimidate bonus). He may lend a warforged money to hire a barrister, if he thinks he'll get the money back. If it's a particularly interesting crime, he will attend the trial, and might even pay for the barrister, if the case is likely to create a useful precedent. All of this is subject to Merrix not being too busy, and if Merrix isn't available, then a House Cannith flunky will try to do what the flunky thinks Merrix would want. If the flunky's wrong, gods help them. Why does Merrix help the warforged? Perhaps he thinks of them as his children, or dependents, or as persons he has a responsibility to? All of these are within the scope of lawful behavior. LE people want the best for their children too. One of the differences between LE, LN and LG vis-a-vis children is how much they want the best for other people's children. More sinisterly, perhaps he has a method of controlling warforged, or at least ensuring their loyalties. So, as they spread through Sharn's industries and political life, Merrix's own political power grows. This is true even if he has no magical means of controlling them: diplomacy and political affinity are enough. Come the warforged revolution--unless the Lord of Blades is leading it--not only will Merrix be last against the wall, he will get to choose the order of the executions. Merrix is a good example of how an NPC can be evil, but not a campaign bad guy. Unless the PCs are fleshy-supremacists or artificer-haters, his interests and theirs won't clash. If there's a warforged and/or artificer PC in the group, Merrix might be an ally, patron, or puppet-master.
DBlizzard 11-26-04, 01:10 PM	IIRC, there also seems to be a contradiction between the Sharn sourcebook and Keith Baker's recent Dungeon adventure module (can't remember the title, unfortunately) concerning the fall of the Glass Tower. I believe the Sharn book says that the tower fell as the result of abjurer saboteurs, while Keith's adventure in Dungeon gives an entirely different reason (which I'm not mentioning so as to avoid spoilers). I don't think anyone knows the reason listed in the Dungeon adventure. Indeed, IIRC, the players aren't going to find out from the given adventure (although, follow-ups adventures could bring the information out). The sabateurs bit iis the "common knowledge" or "word around town" about why it feel.
Alexius D'Cannith 11-26-04, 03:31 PM	like i said, never trust what your told
Gurv 11-26-04, 03:55 PM	I think I'm going to stick with LE, but for a different reason. With his alignment as as is, Merrix (LE), Jorlanna (LN), and and Zorlan (NE) each have different alignments. That goes further into explaining the schism within the House. But in support of a NE alignment, I'll quote from Sharn: "Merrix has little interest in reuniting the house, he doesn't care for either of his younger cousins, and he intends to keep the southern house on the same paths of research and production that it was on before the destruction of Cyre". That does not sound like the standard mindset of a LE person to me. One way or another, I am keeping him as a subtly evil character, not one who acknowledges it. He will be someone who believes what he is doing is right, and to Dolurrh with anyone who can't see that.
Brianish 11-26-04, 10:41 PM	Neutral. Not Neutral Evil.
scaryfroman 11-26-04, 11:04 PM	I'm starting to see eberron evil like how Kaius is described. He is ruthless, and would do anything to see his people and country succeed. I think the same could be said of Merrix. He is devoted to the warforged, using his tools to create more and help them on thier way. Besides blatantly breaking the laws, I expect that he wouldn't be opposed to sending one of his warforged friends to "persuade" someone to stop trying to figure out what Merrix is doing. I see him as a ruthless buisnessman, forever dedicated to his grandfather's creations.
Beleriphon 11-27-04, 07:32 AM	I sort of see Merrix as being a godfather type figure. He's all to willing to help, but only if you promise him a favour later. I might be large, it might be small, it might never be called in, but you owe him just the same.
Brianish 11-27-04, 10:01 AM	That is a really, really good idea.
Beleriphon 11-27-04, 10:22 AM	That is a really, really good idea. :plotting: :lightbulb :evillaugh