Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RisnDevil 06-20-06, 11:30 PM	I bought the ECS. Had some cool stuff. Like some of the ideas from the setting. Have yet to buy another Eberron book, and not sure if I will. I buy almost all of the FR books, and got rid of though plan to rebuy all the SL books, but I don't play in either world. There is so much quality material in them, that I like reading them, fluff and all. But with Eberron, I get so much focus on guilds, or families, or whatever, and dragon-marks, most of which I can't stand. So why should I buy any more of the books? I like quality crunch, so is the crunch good enough to forgive the fluff. Convince me to buy.
Ath'kethin 06-21-06, 12:46 AM	. . . Never mind. It occured to me halfway through replying that this is suspiciously troll-like behaviour and shouldn't be encouraged.
irDraag 06-21-06, 01:29 AM	I'd have to agree with the above poster, at least in principle. Anyways, if you are indeed truthful, I suggest buying the 5 nations book. It's full of great ideas, I recently bought it and I can't stop reading it!
ekomega 06-21-06, 01:30 AM	I bought the ECS. Had some cool stuff. Like some of the ideas from the setting. Have yet to buy another Eberron book, and not sure if I will. I buy almost all of the FR books, and got rid of though plan to rebuy all the SL books, but I don't play in either world. There is so much quality material in them, that I like reading them, fluff and all. But with Eberron, I get so much focus on guilds, or families, or whatever, and dragon-marks, most of which I can't stand. So why should I buy any more of the books? I like quality crunch, so is the crunch good enough to forgive the fluff. Convince me to buy. Why? Why should I? I get tired of posts like these, as if the Eberron fans must fight the rebellious battle and claim fans from other settings which are more established. We must prove that Eberron is the best. Because, of course, the setting with the most fans is victorious. (at what?) You should really be asking the WotC marketing department to do this for you. It's their job, not the fans', to sell you products. Don't buy it if you don't want it. Like I care what you do with your money and your free time. If you bought the campaign setting book already, and didn't like it, I hope you can return it or pass it on to someone else. They might enjoy it. At the very least, I hope you found something in the book worth stealing for your own games, so that you didn't just waste your time and money buying and reading it. No amount of convincing is going to make you like it if you read it all and don't like it. I love Eberron, and only play it now. I find it a breath of fresh air. If you don't, that's too bad, but to each his own.
ArcTan 06-21-06, 01:50 AM	I'm not going to write a convincing essay. I'm just going to make a note of good crunch, as opposed to fluff, in Eberron: The new artificer base class. The new races, especially the warforged and the new living construct subtype. Dragonshard items. The elemental binding mechanic. Psionics-based items like the dream siphon. Fun and flavorful PrCs like the Skymage, the Juggernaut, the Cyran Avenger, the Bone Knight, etc. New clerical domains designed to augment the possibilities for non-healing-based "support" clerics. Action Points! Not only that, but feats and classes built around them to support them -- characters now based on the idea of extraordinary luck. Interesting planar mechanics. Manifest zones, eldritch machines, other good stuff. All that said, Eberron exists much more in its fluff than its crunch, but there is still quite a wealth of stuff to pore through if all you want is to salvage cool mechanics for your own campaign. Monsters like the daelkyr and the quori make good BBEGs whatever world you're in, and characters like King Kaius or the Lord of Blades make great NPC stat blocks.
RedUncle 06-21-06, 03:22 AM	and there's a great deal of entertaining fluff in the EXPLORER'S HANDBOOK (which I purchased a while back, and just now started reading) ---- it has some really inspirational adventure/campaign ideas ------ and also a rather interesting compilation of Eberron specific crunch (airships and lightning rail details galore) ------- I'm really enjoying the book!
RisnDevil 06-21-06, 07:40 AM	Ath'kethin, irDraag, and ekomega: Wow. Just wow. First of all, do not call me a troll (Ath'kethin an irDraag), as that is a personal attack on me and not my post, as far as I am concerned. Moving past that, though, I posted here because this IS the Eberron forum, so I felt the fans of the forum would know best and be able to point out some of the must-buy qualities of the books/setting. And wtf ekomega? Do you not endorse any products that you like to your friends because it is the marketing of the individual products company's responsibility? I am not a player or avid supporter or fan of any other setting, and am not trying to ask anyone to steal me away so that Eberron is the winner with the biggest fan base. To me, the idea behind the setting sounded awesome, that is why I bought ECS, but then I got the book and there was so much "junk" about the aforementioned houses and dragonmarks, I was truly turned off. One of the items I did like, the binding of elementals for common use, barely got any support. If there is a book with lots of inormation on that, please, tell me where. I am not a troll, I just want someone to show me some things I am not experiencing by skipping out on the books (thus far) that might make it worth buying them. BTW, thanks ArcTan and RedUncle.
poisondusk 06-21-06, 07:52 AM	I am not the Wizards marketing department. I'm a chemist. It is not my job to convince you to buy a product. If you don't wat it, don't buy it. No amount of convincing on my part will get you to buy it if your eally don't want ti. Why should I put the time into it.
MysticTheurge 06-21-06, 08:10 AM	Ath'kethin, irDraag, and ekomega: Wow. Just wow. First of all, do not call me a troll (Ath'kethin an irDraag), as that is a personal attack on me and not my post.... I don't think anyone intended to insult you personally. There are a whole lot of threads that start just like this that degenerate into a "Ha, ha, got you. Here's why eberron really suxorz..." kind of a thing. It may have just been the phrasing of your post that pushed these buttons for people. Something like "I like good crunch material, but am less interested in the fluff of the setting, which Eberron books should I be looking at?" (The easy answer to that is Magic of Eberron) rather than "Why should I buy more eberron books? Convince me." might have been better received.
mhacdebhandia 06-21-06, 09:23 AM	If you're not interested in the dragonmarked houses, I will note that they're not very important to or prominent in any of the current releases, really, aside from the adventure path.
Ath'kethin 06-21-06, 09:29 AM	To me, the idea behind the setting sounded awesome, that is why I bought ECS, but then I got the book and there was so much "junk" about the aforementioned houses and dragonmarks, I was truly turned off. One of the items I did like, the binding of elementals for common use, barely got any support. If there is a book with lots of inormation on that, please, tell me where. I am not a troll, I just want someone to show me some things I am not experiencing by skipping out on the books (thus far) that might make it worth buying them. Elemental binding is covered in more detail in Magic of Eberron, and elemental vessels specifically in the Explorer's Handbook. The Player's Guide to Eberron also has a little bit of information, but it's scattered throughout. Unfortunately for you, the dragonmarked houses are a very major part of the campaign world, and you can't really avoid them. Indeed, the elemental binding itself is handled largely by on of the houses. What is it about the houses that you dislike so much? I think they add an interesting element to the game, and one not found in most other settings. And lastly: I do not apologize for my initial reaction. You sounded like a troll. I am however glad to see you apparently are not.
RisnDevil 06-21-06, 09:48 AM	It is not so much the presence of the houses, it is the dominance of them. Everyone and everything seemingly HAS to be linked to a house. That just doesn't jive well with me. The dragonmarks themselves have potential, but there is something missing in the execution for me. It might be a lack of simplicity to it, I don't know (I think I may have to go back and re-read my ECS). And the elemental binding itself, for me, can be pulled out and put into another world without having to bring the house with it. Just how much is devoted to elemental binding in MoE? (If you couldn't tell, I REALLY like this idea/mechanic.) Do they give pretty clear rules and/or guidelines/suggestions for other ways to bind elementals for new effects? As an aside note, I really like the Warforged (which is absolutely contradictory to my initial reaction to them), though I am not overly fond of the other races. Nothing against them, but don't have the same appeal to me that Warforged do. But, are there any other little tidbits like this, especially with semi-regular support, throughout the Eberron books that I don't know about since I do not buy them? I want to know about other cool "mechanics" like elemental binding, Warforged, dragonmarks (I may not care much for them, but they are an example), or anything else that would be great for mining? (Lastly, not related to Eberron, what was it about my initial post that sounded troll-like? And also, I was just a bit dismayed that the first reaction was to cry troll. To me, to stop trolling, wouldn't the easiest thing to do be to ignore the troll, rather than try to spurn him?)
Blizzard_Bobsan 06-21-06, 09:57 AM	Just how much is devoted to elemental binding in MoE? (If you couldn't tell, I REALLY like this idea/mechanic.) Do they give pretty clear rules and/or guidelines/suggestions for other ways to bind elementals for new effects? There are a few pages describing the basics of the process step by step, there is an elemental-binding related organization (Power of Purity), there are several new spells and infusions related to the subject of elementals and binding, maybe a feat or two as well as several new magic items and elemental bound vessels. There are also some elemental grafts and a prestige class called Elemental Scion of Zilargo. Also, it may make you happy to know that the whole elemental binding magic is more closely related to a nation and a race (the gnomes of Zilargo) than to a dragonmarked house (Cannith). edit: As an afterthought - I personally don't find MoE to be one of the best books for the setting, but it's deffinately one of the crunchiest.
Seth of the First Brigade 06-21-06, 11:05 AM	It is not so much the presence of the houses, it is the dominance of them. Everyone and everything seemingly HAS to be linked to a house. That just doesn't jive well with me. The dragonmarks themselves have potential, but there is something missing in the execution for me. It might be a lack of simplicity to it, I don't know (I think I may have to go back and re-read my ECS). Simply put, the "Dragon Marked Houses" really serve as the major economic power; or rather mercantile power/industry. They are the mirror of modern day major corporations and standard setters within the global market. Due to their unique abilities they were able to more readily produce things that the average person needs on a day to day basis, and fill a void that would have otherwise been left open. The DMH's were able to; through the use of simple magic produce such innovations as everbright torches and lanterns, airships, lighting rail, and elemental powered carts and galleons. Where as in other worlds these voids would have been filled with technology; which by the way is in short supply within your traditional fantasy setting. :) Check out this link "Dragon Marked Houses Bio (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=442444)" for a more in-depth look at the DMH's as well as the political intrigue they bring along with them. In essence they are the Mercantile Princes and Barons of this world. In addition to this they also regulate your more traditional Merchant houses that do not bear DM's (Dragon Marks) Their power cannot be denied. PS: Think about this for second, how many things do you have in your house that are not linked to GE, Johnson & Johnson, Proctor & Gamble, Microsoft, Coca-Cola, Intel, or AMD, the list goes on, but I hope you get the picture. The big difference being that we as a country; meaning in real life have reached an almost decadent place in our growth in regards to major innovation of new ideas. Eberron however is just on the rise in regards to these things, probably quite similar to where the US was shortly after WWII. Innovation abounds, and private industry steps to the forefront to provide that innovation. Heres a little bit to read on that subject: (and a couple of links as well) Articles: Post WWII, 1945-1952 - Historical Text Archive (http://historicaltextarchive.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=607) Post-WWII Western European Exceptionalism: The Economic Dimension (http://econ161.berkeley.edu/Econ_Articles/ucla/ucla_marshall2.html) Post WWII Economic Expansion Written by: geoff127 “The U.S. embarked on one of the greatest periods of economic expansion in its history.” America did indeed embark on one of the greatest periods of expansion in the postwar years. People had money, consumers were spending that money, and corporations were profiting from that. New types of companies got started and were succeeding, and older businesses folded because of this. New industries were created which opened many possibilities for the near future. Current workers were getting promoted into white-collar jobs in all sorts of industries, and new jobs were created because of new technology. The postwar era was the beginning of the technology boom, which would transform the world within 50 years. The move away from the cities still continued, and the baby boom was still occurring. All of this made the postwar years some of the best economic years in American history. During World War II people were earning wages, but not spending much of them. This was mostly because of the small supply of consumer goods, if they were even produced during the war. This meant that the average American consumer had several years of wages saved by the end of the war. Some unfortunate families also had money from the government and insurance companies if they lost a relative due to the fighting in Europe and the Pacific. This meant that at the end of the war Americans had money, and the want to buy new things and give the economy a nice, long awaited boost. Americans had thousands of dollars saved up, and now they wanted to do something with that money. The obvious solution was spending it. For the first time in years consumer good were once again produced and sold in large quantities. That set-up was a perfect situation for economic growth. Consumer has money, corporation has product, consumer wants product. It’s very simple, the consumer will pay for what they want, and that will cause economic growth because of increased spending. This spending was very obvious, the Grosse National Product increased by 292 billion dollars from 1945 to 1960, which was an increase of almost 150%. That proves how much American consumers were spending compared to the war years. This increase in buying did not just make the consumers happier. The corporations welcomed the buying increase, because that meant a profit increase for them. The “big three” automotive companies, General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, because the clear industry leaders, because they were outselling competitors by a long shot. These large companies were using their large profits to take-over smaller companies, thus causing the parent corporation to grow. Some large corporations bought up totally unrelated companies, like a telephone company buying an insurance company, and a rent-a-car place. These unrelated companies were called diversified conglomerates. Hundreds of companies found themselves diversified conglomerates in the postwar years. This is how companies benefited and grew during the postwar years. During this time of economic growth some people wanted to get themselves a piece of the pie. Several large corporations that still exist today first opened their doors during the postwar era. Companies such as McDonald’s, American Express, and Visa led the way. These new businesses quickly grew, and were industry leaders within just a few years. These new businesses were too successful for existing businesses such as corner café’s, and soda shops. These private, small businesses were mostly all taken over by these large franchises, like Burger King, Kentucky Friend Chicken, and the previously mentioned McDonalds. Credit card companies also make millions during these years. For the second time Americans had hundreds of dollars of personal debt because of credit, but this time there were precautions in place to prevent a major disaster for reoccurring. These are just a few examples of new corporations booming in the growing economy of America. Technical advances made during World War II led to the development of several new industries in the postwar era. The largest, and perhaps most intriguing was nuclear power. The atomic bomb created thousands of possibilities for future usage. Not all of these uses were destructive weapons either. The most important peacetime use, which still exists today, is commercial power. The first nuclear power plant was built in 1957 in Shippingport, Pennsylvania. Sense then nuclear power has become an incredibly valuable resource to our nation. Another factor that contributed towards the growth of the American economy was the promotion of a large portion of the current workforce. This meant pay increases, but it also caused a lot of internal conflict amongst workers. Blue-collar workers were not white-collar office workers, and some didn’t quite like that. The companies pushed for uniformity, and not individual expression. Some of the workers didn’t feel comfortable with this, and the impersonal feeling that came with the job. They felt like a number, not a living, breathing person. Even with this set back many workers kept their jobs, and enjoyed the high pay, and good benefits that came with the job. Their increased salary was yet another factor that lead to a growth of the economy. The economic boom in the postwar years led to the creation of many new jobs, which ended up boosting the economy further. Corporate expansion of the main cause of more jobs available to the American people. These large corporations were making millions each year, so hey turned around and invested some of those profits in the expansion of the company. With capital expansion you must also make human resource expansion, so that was a main source of new jobs. Other new jobs were ones left open by men who were killed during the war. Thousands of jobs had to be filled, because the men who previously held them were never going to come back, so they hired new people. All of this helped to lead towards a larger job market, and a much lower unemployment rate. Wartime technology made it’s way into the civilian consumer world in the years immediately following the war. These technologies would end up laying the groundwork for the computer; a thing that fifty years later would totally transform the world. This second Technological Revolution would create many new jobs in several new industries; as well create new inventions at a rapid pace. All of that would help to transform the way we live, and it would change the way that people worked, more and more people would have to be educated to enter this workforce, which meant colleges would experience growth, just like the rest of the economy. The computer was becoming a device that would start to enter homes within several years, and silicone “chips” would start to replace big, bulky vacuum tubes used in older computers. This invention made the home computer possible. Even know the computer had a small effect of the economy of postwar America, it did have a major effect on the economy within the end of the century. One of the largest events of the postwar era, and one that had a major effect of the economy was the move away from the cities. People were flocking to the suburbs once again, and this time the move was on a much larger scale. This movement was held back by one thing, a lack of housing. This would have to be dealt with in a fast manner, but the homes still had to be high quality. This posed a relatively major problem. The solution came from a developer named William J. Levitt. He thought that communities should be built like cars; just bring the assembly line to the worksite. Buyers were offered very few options, just color for the most part, so all the homes looked similar. This was revolutionary idea; it allowed more houses to be built it less time, which increases profits that the builder received. This also increased the number of jobs available in the construction industry, because of the number of people required to build these homes. This is how the move to the suburbs affected the growth of the postwar economy. The final major event that affected the growth of the economy was the baby boom. The birthrate was skyrocketing, up about 20% from before the war. With more children running around the country came more bills. You have to spend money to pay bills, and that means that along the line someone is profiting. Thus profit helps the economy grow. That means the more babies there are the more bills that have to be paid. That is how the economy positively benefits from a baby boom, because more money gets spent. That is the baby boom’s contribution towards the growth of the economy in the postwar years. The economy did grow tremendously during the years following World War II. Those years had a huge impact on the future of the world. Some of those impacts were nuclear power, computers, and even an assembly line process for building homes. The economy grew with huge leaps and bounds, instead of tiny steps like in the past. The Gross National Product increased by nearly 150 percent from the en of the war a 1960. People were earning more money, and they had a lot saved up from during the war years. All of that factored together caused the greatest period of economic expansion in America history. Hope this helps! :)
DoveArrow 06-21-06, 11:56 AM	So why should I buy any more of the books? Because I am holding your dog at ransom. No not that dog, the other one. In any case, if you ever want to see your dog again, I suggest that you buy more Eberron sourcebooks. :P Seriously, though, if you're looking for some interesting crunch, I would highly recommend Magic of Eberron. There's a lot of good stuff in there, and I'm not just talking about new spells and magic items.
jpwyrm 06-21-06, 12:29 PM	Well, in Magic of Eberron you get to know how the gnomes (principaly) conduct elemental binding. Thus, it gives you or your player a good base to create new or already existing elemental-bounded items. It also contains grafts, plant, deathless and elemental, new elemental bound items and vehicles and some new and interesting feats (particularly those related to the artificer class and the Draconic Prophecy). There's also the Races of Eberron that gives a lot of possibilities for players (Racial substitution level for the 4 new races, racial feats for all races, prestige class and several spells and magic items). Now I think those two books are the crunchier in the Eberron book range. Hope this helps!
Edymnion 06-21-06, 01:49 PM	Allow me to say what no one else will say. Don't buy any more books. Take the one you got back, and get something else. You've already said that you can't stand what amounts to the very backbone of the setting, so why do you want to keep going in it? You've got the ECS, thats all of the convincing you should need, one way or the other.
RisnDevil 06-21-06, 02:38 PM	That is just it, parts of the setting itself don't fit well together for me, as I have said several times, but the premise behind the world, or at least as I understood it, does. I like some things, and am hoping to learn about other things (or expansions of thse things) that would make buying more books worthwhile.
Rocksa 06-21-06, 02:43 PM	Sharn: City of Towers, is also a good book, well, that is if you're planning on running a lot of stuff in Sharn. There are a few nice PrC's in there, as well as some new monsters, orginizations, items, and feats. Magic of Eberron, as has been said, is one of the crunchier books, lots of stuff on the workings of Eberron's unique approach to magitech. New items, new race(s) new monsters, great new grafts, nice new spells and feats, terrific new PrC's, and even a sort of explanation on schemas. Most importantly though, well for me anyway, is the fact that there were finally some new symbionts. Eh, I like symbionts, what can I say. Anyway, this would probably be a must buy for you, I'd definitely recommend it. Explorer's Handbook has quite a bit of crunch as far as elemental vehicles are concerned, plenty of stats and maps for everything from lightning rails to airships, as well as some kind of fluffy-crunch on lightning rail stations and airship docking towers. Also some nice fluff about the Wayfinder Orginization and The Twelve, with some nice little adventure sites to boot. Races of Eberron also has some great crunch for the four new races, as well as some new stuff for Xen'drick drow. However, there's some argument as to whether or not it can be considered a true Eberron book. Some would argue that it's really just part of the "Races of" series, one that tries to bring the new races to worlds not Eberron. Some would argue that it's part of the Eberron canon, citing first and foremost that it deals with major aspects of Eberron and therefore is an Eberron book. Anyway, I remember there being some contradictary material in there, which, well, IIRC was all in the fluff, but the crunch of the book is all great. Nice new items for the four new races, loads of great feats, and even a few very nice PrC's. I'd recommend it if you'd like to have some more options for the four new races. Five Nations was a book I only really managed to be able to flip through. From what I know though, it's pretty much just pure fluff, lots of stuff for backgrounds of the nations and the like. I liked it for all the history stuff and everything, but you seem like more of the type of person who goes for more mechanics, so...I don't know, I'd say just flip through it and check it out if you can, but this one is probably one you could save for later. There were, however, one or two PrC's in the book IIRC. Player's Guide to Eberron...well, I don't have this one, haven't even really had a chance to read this one any. From what I've been told it has a lot of secrets and whatnot for the various orginizations, but I can't really say for sure what all's in there. Hope this helps a little.
DoveArrow 06-21-06, 04:59 PM	Guys, I know we've all seen a variation on this thread posted probably a hundred times before. However, keep in mind that the poster was probably unaware of this fact and shouldn't be expected to be aware of this fact when he's probably never visited the boards before. Also, try to remain polite. While you may not agree with this poster's opinion about dragonmarked houses, there are certainly better ways to express that opinion which don't involve telling the poster to shut up and take his copy of the ECS back to the store.
ArcTan 06-22-06, 02:38 AM	It is not so much the presence of the houses, it is the dominance of them. Everyone and everything seemingly HAS to be linked to a house. That just doesn't jive well with me. The dragonmarks themselves have potential, but there is something missing in the execution for me. It might be a lack of simplicity to it, I don't know (I think I may have to go back and re-read my ECS). And the elemental binding itself, for me, can be pulled out and put into another world without having to bring the house with it. Well, different strokes. Eberron is itself a pretty strong example of a particular subgenre of high fantasy, that being the "clanking" sort of urban fantasy that draws more from the Renaissance than the High Middle Ages. What is often -- misleadingly -- called "steampunk", even though in fantasy works it usually doesn't have steam engines (or gunpowder) and is only "punk" in that it has more shades of gray than the highest of high fantasy. And one classic trope of such Renaissance-punk-ish fantasy is the predominance of merchant houses and guilds over things like noble fiefdoms and kingly lineages and things, which matches our own world's slow progression away from pure feudalism toward proto-capitalism with elected noble councils and guilds of tradesmen and burghers, the ancestors of today's democratic republics and publicly-traded corporations. The fact that I'm into such stories -- and that I consider things like a Guild of Artisans and Guild of Merchants and Guild of Courtesans to be kind of _de rigeur_ for the fantasy I read and be the source of most of the politicking that drives the plot -- may be one of those things that made this attractive to me, but apparently not you. Do remember, though, that not everything in Eberron is "linked" to the Dragonmarked Houses in such a direct way. A lot of crunch is laid out about them, because they are a whole new mechanical wrinkle that takes a lot of time to describe -- having a dragonmark is a unique form of magical power, in that aside from the social benefits it doesn't do much on its own besides give you some hard-to-use spell-like abilities -- but it becomes increasingly powerful the more dragonmark-only or dragonmark-enhanced items you find. Think of dragonmarks in that context as a new, more thematic wrinkle on old-fashioned "Must be race X" or "Must be nation X" requirement items, only with more potential -- because it makes more *sense* for a powerful crafting tool to only be usable by a member of the Mark of Making or a powerful defense mechanism to only be usable by a member of the Mark of Sentinel, whereas it gets a bit tiresome seeing how many elven magical devices seem to be powered by pointy ears or something. Also, you personally, in your campaign, don't need to use dragonmark items or to have any dragonmarked PCs or prominent NPCs. The Dragonmarked Houses are notable mainly for their neutrality, and it's perfectly plausible that they will remain neutral in most things for the near future. The *exciting* politicking still remains with the noble governments of the Five Nations and the nations around them. The really cool factions -- the governments, the Blood of Vol, the Dreaming Dark, the Lords of Dust, the Lord of Blades, the Church of the Silver Flame, etc. -- only bear a tangential relationship to the Dragonmarked Houses. There's tons of potential for cool story within the Houses, but from an outsider's perspective it's easy to see the Houses as nothing more than tradesmen who do most of the difficult and annoying jobs in Khorvaire so that adventurers can adventure and politicians can struggle for power and plotters can plot in the dark. You can't run Eberron without the Dragonmarked Houses *existing*, but you can easily run it with them in the background. The Dragonmarks become the equivalent of Microsoft, American Airlines, General Electric, Merill Lynch, etc. in our world. In a d20 Modern campaign, you know that you type and communicate with people using Microsoft software, that you make your emergency trip to Mexico on board an American Airlines jetliner, that your light and heat come from GE, that your $100 million net worth is tied up in stocks run by the good folks at Merill Lynch, etc. You're even vaguely aware that the people who own these companies are very important, and that bad things that happen to these companies can cause massive problems for you and the other citizens of the world. But mainly these companies exist in the background, and you enjoy their services on a day-to-day basis and don't notice them unless something goes wrong. Which is how an average campaign will probably handle House Sivis (messages and communication), House Lyrandar (long-range transportation), House Cannith (consumer technology) and House Kundarak (finance). Basically all they did was take other settings' Guild of Artificers or Guild of Sailors and flesh them out and flavor them up a great deal. Just how much is devoted to elemental binding in MoE? (If you couldn't tell, I REALLY like this idea/mechanic.) Do they give pretty clear rules and/or guidelines/suggestions for other ways to bind elementals for new effects? Relatively, yes. Still not truly a complete system, but there's more than enough detail in there to keep fans of elemental binding occupied. Fans of elemental binding should get MoE and, if you want, Player's Guide to Eberron, for its High Elemental Binder PrC. As an aside note, I really like the Warforged (which is absolutely contradictory to my initial reaction to them), though I am not overly fond of the other races. Nothing against them, but don't have the same appeal to me that Warforged do. But, are there any other little tidbits like this, especially with semi-regular support, throughout the Eberron books that I don't know about since I do not buy them? I want to know about other cool "mechanics" like elemental binding, Warforged, dragonmarks (I may not care much for them, but they are an example), or anything else that would be great for mining? Quori possession is cool, although since you didn't care for the kalashtar you may not care for them. A lot of the psionics-related material in Eberron is tied strongly to the quori. The Mournland is a cool concept, and the living spells from the Mournland are one of the coolest ideas from Eberron with a lot of potential for customization. A Living Mordenkainen's Disjunction is one of the scariest things you could ever meet. (Lastly, not related to Eberron, what was it about my initial post that sounded troll-like? And also, I was just a bit dismayed that the first reaction was to cry troll. To me, to stop trolling, wouldn't the easiest thing to do be to ignore the troll, rather than try to spurn him?) Well, most of the people here are Eberron fans, and so in any environment like that coming right out and saying you don't like Eberron and want to be convinced to like Eberron rubs people the wrong way.
RisnDevil 06-22-06, 07:26 AM	I vaguely remember living spells from the ECS, but does MoE (or any other book for that matter) give more complete guidelines for making/statting a living spell? Also, it appears I will be looking into MoE, but I just want to know, is it Hardcover, or Paperback like MoF?
Ath'kethin 06-22-06, 08:07 AM	I vaguely remember living spells from the ECS, but does MoE (or any other book for that matter) give more complete guidelines for making/statting a living spell? Also, it appears I will be looking into MoE, but I just want to know, is it Hardcover, or Paperback like MoF? There are no more complete guidelines for living spells; everything you need to know about them and make them is on page 293-295 pf the ECS. And MoE is a hardcover; all of the Eberron books so far have ben hardcover except for the adventures.
dutchmason 06-22-06, 08:11 AM	MoE is hardback and it is one of my personal favorites as it exapands on one of my favorite aspects of Ebberon, the unique magic such as elemental vehicles and grafts as well as one of my favorite PrCs the Alchemic Savant and the Mastermaker bothe of which make for great villains or anti-heroes . Its very crunchy and although some of the items require a dragonmark to operate it is simple enough as a DM to downplay that factor and the artificer items are a great way for non cannith artificers to shine.
Kreistor1 06-22-06, 11:55 AM	Risndevil, one of the best parts of Eberron is that you can make it your own. You do not need to make the Houses as powerful as you seem to interpret them so far. Me, I treat them as glorified Guilds. Yes, they have slight advantages in their chosen field, but the individuals with dragonmarks of significant power are very rare: as rare as the Wizards that could learn that power. It is an advantage in their marketplace, but it is not an enormous one. The Houses can't produce in volume. Yes, they sell first, but once their supplies are exhausted, others fill the void. So, though a House Cannith Greater Mark wearer could make a suit of Full Plate every day, he's only one man making 365 per year. There's still demand for Banded, Splint, Breastplates, and so on that he can't fill. So, in the end, they compete with regular joe smiths on the street, but that they do it cheaper and easier only means they make more money, not that they're superpowers. Others treat them differently. Edymnion would have you believe that the Hosues are the backbone of Eberron. No, they're the backbone of his Eberron. Breland, Karrnath, Aundair, and Thrane are the backbones of my Eberron. Military power always trumps mercantile power. Well, to me it does, but not to Edymnion. But, that both he and I can create acceptable worlds using Eberron as our source material speaks volumes towards the flexibility of this world. Don't like Houses? Focus on the Nations, or even the internal politics of one nation, using Five Nations. Or the religions (Faiths of Eberron isn't out yet). Or the Lords of Dust and Daelkyr. Or on investigating Xen'drik (Secrets of Xen'drik next month). You can focus a campaign on the underworld in Sharn, using Sharn:CoT. Even without Eberron, the Explorer's Handbook provides some interesting locations that you could use in any world. Wow, I sound like a marketer. Anyway, my point is simple: there's more here than the one little thing you're worried about, and you can avoid that aspect of the world if you like. I did.
Sythion 06-22-06, 01:31 PM	The ECS is basically a huge encyclopedia of information. It does not explain what is necessary, or how the setting has to be played. Instead it gives tons of options for you to pursue and/or focus on. As was mentioned before, the dragonmarked houses need not be a focal point of the campaign. It comes down to deciding what type of a game you like playing. Intrigue, adventure, mystery, and hack and slash all have their place in Eberron. The DMH belong to that first category. I'm a huge fan of intrigue, and the Eberron setting is set up to support intrigue better then any other. If you don't like intrigue, or just don't like the idea of a mercantile house (although I would consider them to be more nobility then simple merchants) running things from the shadows, no problem. Pick what fits you the best. Although I do love the intrigue set-up of Eberron, what really sets it apart is the tone. The dark, pulpy fiction is more unique then most other high fantasy settings. Having magic mimic, or in some cases over power early technologies allows for interesting new themes. I can have an idea that feels familiar without being cliche fantasy. You can read this humorous post to see how many genres Eberron can be tied into: [humor] 1001+ Things that the worst party in Eberron is forbidden from doing... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=507223) . For a jaded group of RPers, this world breathed new life into our game. Until Eberron's themes become cliche for us, I will be setting all my games in this campaign world.
ekomega 06-22-06, 02:11 PM	I vaguely remember living spells from the ECS, but does MoE (or any other book for that matter) give more complete guidelines for making/statting a living spell? Also, it appears I will be looking into MoE, but I just want to know, is it Hardcover, or Paperback like MoF? Living Spells can be created using the rules from both the Eberron Campaign Setting, and their reprint in Monster Manual III.
bromleylaerchenheim 08-04-06, 11:00 AM	[QUOTE=RisnDevil]To me, the idea behind the setting sounded awesome, that is why I bought ECS, but then I got the book and there was so much "junk" about the aforementioned houses and dragonmarks, I was truly turned off. QUOTE] For me, the stuff about factions, guilds and houses is what makes Eberron different from other settings. If you let yourself immerge in the house politics or in the hidden goals of factions like the lords of dust, you will notice how rich and deep the story potential behind all this is. For my group being a very senior one (most of them playing D&D for 15+ years), struggling around with politics is far more engaging than the typical D&D style of black and white, evil and good guys scenarios. In Eberron everybody could be friend or foe despite his alignement. Do not trust a paladin of the silver flame as he might have a hidden agenda. And in times of need, even the evil Mockery cleric could stand beside you to defend your common hometown. And whatever you do, watch your back when you start negotiating with one of the factions in Sharn...
a_psh 08-04-06, 12:07 PM	Set aside an hour of your time, go to a bookstore or gaming store, and flip through some Eberron books and see if you like anything. This will serve you better than the opinions of 20 strangers on an Internet forum.
a_psh 08-04-06, 12:27 PM	For my group being a very senior one (most of them playing D&D for 15+ years), struggling around with politics is far more engaging than the typical D&D style of black and white, evil and good guys scenarios.One caveat here is that Eberron's quasi-modern sensibilities also somewhat limit the politicking that can go on, since the world is modern-y enough that politics is really the realm of... well, politicians (since, in contrast to the typical fantasy world of vanilla D&D, you can't really become a king by being the world's best swordsman or earn a high rank by dint of heroism alone). True to the noir/pulp label, most adventurers in Eberron don't have what it takes to actually acquire noble titles or elected offices; rather, their version of "politics" tends to play out in dark alleys and seedy secret meetings, a kind of politics that involves a whole lot of corruption, violence, and vicious betrayal. So, if your definition of politics is lots of factions and deception and whatnot, then Eberron definitely works for that. If you're interested in seeing PCs become lords or guildmasters or Senators or what have you, then it's not really much better than the average setting -- which is not to say that it's impossible to do so, but that it's not really any easier and isn't central to the setting at all.