Copyright and Houses [Archive] - Wizards Community

Copyright and Houses [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
skrap-san
02-15-08, 01:27 PM Do you think there is some sort of copyright law in the world of Eberron?
Do they have the same piracy problems we have today?
Would House Medani and Dennith have a "copyright police"?

I know its a bunch of lame question but I just started wondering about it...
naturax
02-15-08, 01:58 PM I'll bet House Sivis deals with it.
Syltorian
02-15-08, 02:04 PM It would certainly be an issue. I could see some Morgrave scholars as making their careers out of plagiarism, and the gnomes as happily playing at stealing each other's poetry or scholarly work to hone their skills.

But first, you need to consider how copyrighted material is going to be spread.

Eberron has printing, so books should be readily available. Not as much as now, but more than back when everything had to be copied by hand. There is also a fierce competition in the scholarly world, especially with Morgrave's ethics, so plagiarism will be an important issue. To copyright your latest work on The Use of Alliteration in Mid-Empire Xen'drik Artefact Spells, I'd advise you go to Sivis. They are the document guys, the bureaucrats, and used to lists, books, writings and Zilargo intrigues. To make sure nobody steals your three volumes of poems on the Twelve Moons, become a member of the Artisan's Guild, and they will protect your work. That's one major reason for the guild's existence.

Music is more difficult; while Dragon Magazine had horns of recording, most music will be spread by performances and bards singing it in inns and taverns, so your fame comes much more from people actually passing it on without your own doing. Larger works (symphonies, operas) might have to be licensed, but smaller songs which you guard jealously without radios and inexpensive mass-media will be lost to history. Again, Phiarlan will be the best to go to in order to copyright your work; I'd even go so far as saying that your work might not be copyrighted, unless you are a member of the guild, or at least, that it will be much more difficult to enforce if you are an outsider.

If you steal an idea or text from someone not connected to a house, guild, or influential organisation (Mograve, Wynarn Uni, Library of Korranberg, etc)? I do not think anyone would care that much. The Five Nations do not have the forces required to move effectively against regular criminals, and during the War certainly had other problems than making sure nobody copied your idea. Telling the Fairhaven Guard that someone has stolen your love poems when half of their forces have been sent off to make up for the lack of border guards and the rest try to make sure Kreelo's gang does not gain too much control over the city while looking for the people who deposited alchemist's-fire bombs in various bars around the city, will not get you much attention. Keeping watch is probably also something the copyright holder has to do himself, though. Hiring the Warning Guild full-time to make sure nobody sings your latest ballad in the Shadow Marches, Q'Barra or the Eldeen Reaches without telling anyone where he got it from is possible, but it is going to be expensive. The Artisan's Guild (and their Ghallanda allies) and Sivis will pay attention, but if you're on your own...
skrap-san
02-15-08, 02:40 PM Thanks, I'm creating a new adventure for my players, and its going to contain a crashed airship with loads of technical plans that many a organization would like its hands on. So naturally the question came to mind.

Once again, thanks for the information.
Syltorian
02-15-08, 02:54 PM Thanks, I'm creating a new adventure for my players, and its going to contain a crashed airship with loads of technical plans that many a organization would like its hands on. So naturally the question came to mind.

At this point, you're not dealing so much with copyright as with trade secret or patent. If anyone tries to copy this information, they are coming closer to industrial espionage. Medani would be the ones hired to protect something like this - they are the counter-intelligence professionals. While they are probably overpriced and overworked to protect every intellectual property worldwide, they will most likely get into play where industrial property is concerned - especially if the information is sensitive enough to interest many powerful organisations.

That said, I wonder who would register patents. Sivis or Cannith? Or the Twelve as a whole? Not to forget the Arcane Congress, of course.
skrap-san
02-15-08, 05:28 PM Well my basic idea is that during the war House Cannith developed a shardslinger (discused over and over again in other section of forums), and near the end of the war they hired House Lyrandar to send a few prototypes and part of the schemas to a seecret lab in Q'barra. Lyrandar thought this would be a good time to test a new ship design, so they sent the ship on a maiden voyage, of course it crashed. So now everyone wants the schemas, Lyrandar wants to know why the ship crashed. And then of course it crashed in a holy site for a tribe of lizardfolks. Go go pulp action, Oh did i mention the horrid T-rex :D
Zadmar
02-16-08, 07:53 AM That said, I wonder who would register patents. Sivis or Cannith? Or the Twelve as a whole? Not to forget the Arcane Congress, of course.

In the real world, patents allow the inventor to prevent others from using their work - but patents usually expire after 20 years, and the details are shared with the public from the moment of being filed.

Personally I couldn't see the houses revealing their secrets to the public, particularly when that legal protection expires after 20 years - otherwise we'd already have people building their own competing lightning rails, etc. Thus I'd tend to favour your other suggestion of trade secrets, probably backed up with the threat of death as well as legal action for anyone who tries to steal them.

If you want to introduce a more legal element to it, one option might be a letters patent granted to each of the dragonmarked houses by Galifar himself, two thousand years ago, as part of his neutrality offer in return for their support in his campaign (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_patent). With the land of Galifar now divided, the legal situation would be sufficiently gray that law-savvy PCs might be able to challenge the houses' monopoly, if they could get hold of those trade secrets (and were tough enough to deal with hired thugs).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
skrap-san 02-15-08, 01:27 PM	Do you think there is some sort of copyright law in the world of Eberron? Do they have the same piracy problems we have today? Would House Medani and Dennith have a "copyright police"? I know its a bunch of lame question but I just started wondering about it...
naturax 02-15-08, 01:58 PM	I'll bet House Sivis deals with it.
Syltorian 02-15-08, 02:04 PM	It would certainly be an issue. I could see some Morgrave scholars as making their careers out of plagiarism, and the gnomes as happily playing at stealing each other's poetry or scholarly work to hone their skills. But first, you need to consider how copyrighted material is going to be spread. Eberron has printing, so books should be readily available. Not as much as now, but more than back when everything had to be copied by hand. There is also a fierce competition in the scholarly world, especially with Morgrave's ethics, so plagiarism will be an important issue. To copyright your latest work on The Use of Alliteration in Mid-Empire Xen'drik Artefact Spells, I'd advise you go to Sivis. They are the document guys, the bureaucrats, and used to lists, books, writings and Zilargo intrigues. To make sure nobody steals your three volumes of poems on the Twelve Moons, become a member of the Artisan's Guild, and they will protect your work. That's one major reason for the guild's existence. Music is more difficult; while Dragon Magazine had horns of recording, most music will be spread by performances and bards singing it in inns and taverns, so your fame comes much more from people actually passing it on without your own doing. Larger works (symphonies, operas) might have to be licensed, but smaller songs which you guard jealously without radios and inexpensive mass-media will be lost to history. Again, Phiarlan will be the best to go to in order to copyright your work; I'd even go so far as saying that your work might not be copyrighted, unless you are a member of the guild, or at least, that it will be much more difficult to enforce if you are an outsider. If you steal an idea or text from someone not connected to a house, guild, or influential organisation (Mograve, Wynarn Uni, Library of Korranberg, etc)? I do not think anyone would care that much. The Five Nations do not have the forces required to move effectively against regular criminals, and during the War certainly had other problems than making sure nobody copied your idea. Telling the Fairhaven Guard that someone has stolen your love poems when half of their forces have been sent off to make up for the lack of border guards and the rest try to make sure Kreelo's gang does not gain too much control over the city while looking for the people who deposited alchemist's-fire bombs in various bars around the city, will not get you much attention. Keeping watch is probably also something the copyright holder has to do himself, though. Hiring the Warning Guild full-time to make sure nobody sings your latest ballad in the Shadow Marches, Q'Barra or the Eldeen Reaches without telling anyone where he got it from is possible, but it is going to be expensive. The Artisan's Guild (and their Ghallanda allies) and Sivis will pay attention, but if you're on your own...
skrap-san 02-15-08, 02:40 PM	Thanks, I'm creating a new adventure for my players, and its going to contain a crashed airship with loads of technical plans that many a organization would like its hands on. So naturally the question came to mind. Once again, thanks for the information.
Syltorian 02-15-08, 02:54 PM	Thanks, I'm creating a new adventure for my players, and its going to contain a crashed airship with loads of technical plans that many a organization would like its hands on. So naturally the question came to mind. At this point, you're not dealing so much with copyright as with trade secret or patent. If anyone tries to copy this information, they are coming closer to industrial espionage. Medani would be the ones hired to protect something like this - they are the counter-intelligence professionals. While they are probably overpriced and overworked to protect every intellectual property worldwide, they will most likely get into play where industrial property is concerned - especially if the information is sensitive enough to interest many powerful organisations. That said, I wonder who would register patents. Sivis or Cannith? Or the Twelve as a whole? Not to forget the Arcane Congress, of course.
skrap-san 02-15-08, 05:28 PM	Well my basic idea is that during the war House Cannith developed a shardslinger (discused over and over again in other section of forums), and near the end of the war they hired House Lyrandar to send a few prototypes and part of the schemas to a seecret lab in Q'barra. Lyrandar thought this would be a good time to test a new ship design, so they sent the ship on a maiden voyage, of course it crashed. So now everyone wants the schemas, Lyrandar wants to know why the ship crashed. And then of course it crashed in a holy site for a tribe of lizardfolks. Go go pulp action, Oh did i mention the horrid T-rex :D
Zadmar 02-16-08, 07:53 AM	That said, I wonder who would register patents. Sivis or Cannith? Or the Twelve as a whole? Not to forget the Arcane Congress, of course. In the real world, patents allow the inventor to prevent others from using their work - but patents usually expire after 20 years, and the details are shared with the public from the moment of being filed. Personally I couldn't see the houses revealing their secrets to the public, particularly when that legal protection expires after 20 years - otherwise we'd already have people building their own competing lightning rails, etc. Thus I'd tend to favour your other suggestion of trade secrets, probably backed up with the threat of death as well as legal action for anyone who tries to steal them. If you want to introduce a more legal element to it, one option might be a letters patent granted to each of the dragonmarked houses by Galifar himself, two thousand years ago, as part of his neutrality offer in return for their support in his campaign (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_patent). With the land of Galifar now divided, the legal situation would be sufficiently gray that law-savvy PCs might be able to challenge the houses' monopoly, if they could get hold of those trade secrets (and were tough enough to deal with hired thugs).