Post/Author/DateTime	Post
P33KAJ3W 06-22-04, 04:47 PM	Do NON elfs from Valenar get EWP Double Scimitar?
Alkaline 06-22-04, 05:44 PM	Originally posted by P33KAJ3W Do NON elfs from Valenar get EWP Double Scimitar? Yes. In the book it says ... "A wielder native to the region mentioned in a weapon's name treats that weapon as a martial weapon rather than an exotic weapon." Remember it's still Martial, so you need to be able to use Martial weapons. Alkaline
Josh Wilhoyte 06-23-04, 12:45 PM	I don't have the book on me at the moment, but there may be a contradictory statement in the actual Double Scimitar description. There is a line in the Talenta weapons that says specifically Halflings from Talanta get to use those weapons as Martial weapons.
Alkaline 06-23-04, 01:17 PM	Originally posted by Josh Wilhoyte I don't have the book on me at the moment, but there may be a contradictory statement in the actual Double Scimitar description. There is a line in the Talenta weapons that says specifically Halflings from Talanta get to use those weapons as Martial weapons. Actually, you are wrong. In the descriptions it says that the Halflings developed the weapons, not that only they can use it. Once again, ANY WIELDER from that region can use the weapons as martial weapons. This goes back to the chapter on regions stating that races do not define what region you are from and is in fact a seperate factor in defining your character. Have fun with the Valenar Double Scimitar! I know I will. :) Alkaline
Jhaelen 06-24-04, 11:45 AM	Originally posted by Alkaline Actually, you are wrong. In the descriptions it says that the Halflings developed the weapons, not that only they can use it. Once again, ANY WIELDER from that region can use the weapons as martial weapons. This goes back to the chapter on regions stating that races do not define what region you are from and is in fact a seperate factor in defining your character. Have fun with the Valenar Double Scimitar! I know I will. :) Alkaline Actually, YOU are wrong. There is a different thread: Talentia Weapons are Overpowered (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=260798) where Keith answered the question: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by debatedeus So a human fighter from that region has those weapons as a martial weapon (note that the text does not say that only halflings from that region). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Um, actually it does. Page 26 says "Halflings native to this region treat the sharrash, the tangat, and the Talenta boomerang as martial weapons rather than exotic weapons." The humans in the region are largely settlers from Karrnath, Cyran refugees, or bandits. They have not adopted the cultural traditions of the halflings, and learning to use the weapons would take special effort. And looking at page 27 in the section on Valenar I see: "Elves native to this region treat the Valenar double scimitar (see page 119) as a martial weapon rather than an exotic weapon." In case of conflicting sections, the first mention is the correct one.
Alkaline 06-24-04, 12:47 PM	Originally posted by Jhaelen Actually, YOU are wrong. There is a different thread: Talentia Weapons are Overpowered (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=260798) where Keith answered the question: And looking at page 27 in the section on Valenar I see: "Elves native to this region treat the Valenar double scimitar (see page 119) as a martial weapon rather than an exotic weapon." In case of conflicting sections, the first mention is the correct one. First of all, he said in the WEAPON DESCRIPTIONS. In the descriptions is says that the halflings DEVELOPED the weapons. The footnote specifically says "WIELDER" and "NATIVE". If your character is an immigrant or refugee, then they wouldn't be NATIVE. I would consider ANY race from either of those two regions familiar with those weapons. JUST as I'd consider a human who had a history that he had been raised by dwarves familiar with the Dwarven Urghosh. The ECS specifically mentions races having little to do with what region you are from as represented by this quote... "A CHARACTER'S RACE DOES NOT NECESSARILY HAVE ANY BEARINGS ON HIS REGION OF ORIGIN." So, why then, would a human from Valenar NOT be familair with the weapon? It's NOT an Elven Double Scimitar... It's a VALENAR Double Scimitar. Secondly, if you are going to look at things so subjectively, it does say that "elves from Valenar use this weapon", but it doesn't say "only elves". In fact, most of the descriptions are very vague in terms of that aspect. The only DEFINED rule I see, is the footnote that says... "A wielder native to the region mentioned in the weapon's name treats that weapon as a martial weapon..." You do what you like in terms of your campaign, but to me saying a character, no matter what race, that is native to a particular region should be familair with the weapon. Alkaline
Josh Wilhoyte 06-24-04, 02:54 PM	I believe I said the descriptions as to whether the weapons may be used by ANY versus just Elves and Halfings (as Martial weapons) MAY be contradictory. Seeing as we have one poster quoting where it says "Elves" and "Halfling" and another saying "Any," I'd say it's pretty clear there is a contradictory pair of statements. However, if you're going to obsess on the fact I referenced the incorrect section (when I admitted in advance I did not have the book with me to check), then feel free to ignore the point to obsess on a fairly meaningless detail. The two statements on the weapons (Elves/Halflings native to the area vs. Wielders native to the region) are contradictory in nature. In such a case, given that one of the developers has indicated which was the developers intended it to be (as shown in the link provided), I'll go with the developer's opinion. I would consider ANY race from either of those two regions familiar with those weapons. JUST as I'd consider a human who had a history that he had been raised by dwarves familiar with the Dwarven Urghosh. Furthermore, this example is a direct houserules. I certainly have no problem with you using house rules, but for those who come here for what the rules actually say, I'd like to mention this itself is a house rule.
Alkaline 06-24-04, 03:02 PM	Originally posted by Josh Wilhoyte I believe I said the descriptions as to whether the weapons may be used by ANY versus just Elves and Halfings (as Martial weapons) MAY be contradictory. Seeing as we have one poster quoting where it says "Elves" and "Halfling" and another saying "Any," I'd say it's pretty clear there is a contradictory pair of statements. However, if you're going to obsess on the fact I referenced the incorrect section (when I admitted in advance I did not have the book with me to check), then feel free to ignore the point to obsess on a fairly meaningless detail. What the hell are you talking about? I'm not obsessing over any detail. I simply stated that MY post was in reponse to the fact that you mentioned the weapon descriptions in the equipment chapter and THAT was what I was referencing when I looked up my response. In which case, you were WRONG because it clearly states that the halflings developed the weapons. My whole point wasn't even about the ERRATA by Keith Baker. I didn't even know about that. The two statements on the weapons (Elves/Halflings native to the area vs. Wielders native to the region) are contradictory in nature. In such a case, given that one of the developers has indicated which was the developers intended it to be (as shown in the link provided), I'll go with the developer's opinion. Like I just said... I wasn't even referencing Keith Baker's post. I was referencing the MANUAL. Furthermore, this example is a direct houserules. I certainly have no problem with you using house rules, but for those who come here for what the rules actually say, I'd like to mention this itself is a house rule. [/B] Yes... This is a house rule. I never said it wasn't... But picking a region isn't necessarily a core rule either is it? It's a simple flavor mechanism intended to flash out your character more. And by me saying that my character is NATIVE to Valenar, grew up there, and is familiar with ALL other aspects of the region, I don't understand why the hell he wouldn't be able to wield a weapon native to that REGION. Like I said earlier, if you want to play it as a "Elven" Double Scimitar in your campaign, go for it. But, I'll use it as a Valenar Double Scimitar, which is what it is called in my book. Alkaline
Alkaline 06-24-04, 03:04 PM	Oops. Double post. Argue on. :) Alkaline
Ph0eNiX 06-24-04, 03:15 PM	Well, the OBVIOUS solution... to me, anyway, is that a weilder native to that region gets the weapon familiarity and may therefore consider the appropriate exotic weapon as a martial weapon. This typically would be the race that predominates said region, but I would totally go for a member of a different race getting the weapon familiarity as long as 1) they are native to the region, and 2) they are members of the predominate race's culture (since weapon familairity is not racial, but rather cultural), as was mentioned in a previous post that a human raised by dwarves would have weapon familiarity dwarven urgosh. Thusly, if the character is not a member of the culture, then he would NOT get familiarity. This maintains the distinct cultural feel of the setting while allowing someone who has a well-crafted background to gain the benefit, and keeps it out of the hands of the evil players who just try to take every advantage they can and avoids the Drizzt syndrome (except that instead of dual wielding characters, you have double-scimitar wielding characters). And, if you want to make things fun and interesting, remember the Incursion crossover event? They had the double scimitar down as a choice for Githyanki wielders, too. What better way to put down upstart wielders of exoctic weapons than with psionic wielders of the same double weapon. Hmm... the Incursion could give the Warforged who have no direction in life something to do: Defend Eberron against Gith invaders from the Astral plane...
Alkaline 06-24-04, 03:27 PM	Great post Phoenix. I think that sheds some light on what I was trying to get across, but failed. Thanks. Alkaline
Jhaelen 06-25-04, 03:22 PM	Originally posted by Alkaline But picking a region isn't necessarily a core rule either is it? It's a simple flavor mechanism intended to flash out your character more. ?! Umm, if you don't pick a region of origin, where does your character come from? Did she simply fall from the sky somewhere (it MIGHT be possible, it's what the Siberys shards do, right? ;-))? So: it's not a rule, it's common sense.
Alkaline 06-25-04, 03:27 PM	Originally posted by Jhaelen ?! Umm, if you don't pick a region of origin, where does your character come from? Did she simply fall from the sky somewhere (it MIGHT be possible, it's what the Siberys shards do, right? ;-))? So: it's not a rule, it's common sense. There are infinite possibilities. Perhaps your character isn't native to ONE region and travel around. Perhaps they are nomadic. Why don't you use your imagination? This has NOTHING to do with the argument at hand. Now you are just being a ****ing ********. Alkaline
Rauol_Duke 06-26-04, 09:07 AM	Originally posted by Alkaline Now you are just being a ****ing ********. Alkaline I was a ***ing ******** once. Went to the doctor. Got a shot. Cleared it right up...
Aris Stormdragon 06-27-04, 06:24 AM	In the PB 3.5, it mentions that dwarves, for example, can use exotic weapons with the dwarven racial descriptor as martial weapons. Wouldn't this be a variant of this rule? Instead of saying, "A dwarf using an exotic weapon with the dwarven racial descriptor, treats it as a martial weapon", aren't we saying, "A character from the Valenar region using an exotic weapon with the Valenar Regional descriptor treats it as a martial weapon"? That would make a little more sense, and maybe clear things up a little. I don't necessarily think it's a house rule, but then again, it might be. Josh, those two statements don't necessarily contradict each other. They might be redundant, or could be there to explain that just because one is an elf, they can't use the Valenar Double Scimitar as a martial weapon. If your an elf from the Valenar Region, then you can use it as a martial weapon. Likewise, the "Wielders native to the region" statement shows that you don't have to be an elf from the Valenar Region in order to use a Valenar Doouble Scimitar as a martial weapon. Rauol, glad to hear you're feeling better.........:D