Crazy idea: combine Eberron and Thief: the Dark Project? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Crazy idea: combine Eberron and Thief: the Dark Project? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cheezwizthe47th
08-20-04, 09:01 AM Hi guys, I've been planning a semi-derivative campaign based on elements of Thief: the Dark Project (a PC game, though if you didn't know that this whole thread might not make too much sense. ;) ) and to a lesser extent the sequels thereof. Originally, I planned to use Ravenloft to fill the gaps beyond what I've gleaned from the games and written myself, but then I grabbed the Eberron book on a whim and I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. I like the general feel, the quality of the atmosphere and the "dark" fantasy approach, and though I'll still probably be mostly making up my own city and the like for the players to explore, I can see it fitting in well with a world like this.

There are a few quirks that wouldn't quite fit with this juxtaposition; I'm thinking of banning my players from being any of the fun new races, just because they're not exactly very in tune with the general feel of the Thief games. Though, I can certainly see some Warforged perhaps fitting in the background somewhere, and nobody necessarily notices Changelings, and... well, anyway. Dragonmarks seem a bit too... flashy, for my purposes at least, but they're not exactly diametrically opposed to the concept either.

Anyhow, has anybody ever thought about such things before, or perhaps seen other settings like this?
Kid SixXx
08-20-04, 09:04 AM Originally posted by cheezwizthe47th
I like the general feel, the quality of the atmosphere and the "dark" fantasy approach, and though I'll still probably be mostly making up my own city and the like for the players to explore, I can see it fitting in well with a world like this.

Wait until the Sharn book comes out & your city questions will be answered.
Deep Blue 9000
08-20-04, 03:30 PM Very cool campaign idea. Have you played Thief 2: The Metal Age? I think Warforged and Shifters would fit very well into a Thief style game. Warforged could be one of the Mechanist creations and shifters would be right at home in the pagan villages. You'll definitely want to keep the focus on stealth and intrigue so I'd suggest banning all the base classes except monk, rogue, and ranger. All the other classes could exist, they just wouldn't be good for PCs to take.
Darkest90
08-21-04, 06:23 AM I am doing something like this as well. Because of both my inclination to use homebrew worlds for my campaigns (disobeying lately with Eberron) and mix ideas together, I am creating a world I'll probably use in my next game that mixes Thief with Ebberon.

I will probably have a city that combines both Sharn and The City from Thief. There will be tons of factions, some borrowed from Thief and others from Ebberon. The Hammerites could be mixed with the Silver Flame, the Mechanists would be mixed with House Cannith, and the Pagans would be an awesome faction to have a few druid organizations operate within. The Keepers would have to compete with a number of other Eberron factions that operate under secrecy, like the Blood of Vol.

I disagree on using dragonmarks, which will make my City much less magical, but since elementals exist in both Thief and Eberron, I don't see why not some people can start binding them into items.

Warforged could definitely fit with the Mechanists, and Shifters with the Pagans. The Changelings provide the dark, mysterious feel of Thief, so they are in too. Other races I am not too sure on, as in Thief, humans rule supreme. And, I don't like tolkeinesque races, usually. No elves, no dwarves, no gnomes, no orcs, and probably no kalashtar.

Also, don't forget that Thief III: Deadly Shadows is out. I don't know what to draw from that, other than a lot of undead and Pagan wood-mothers (plant elementals.).

- Darkest90
MarkB
08-21-04, 06:54 AM Originally posted by Deep Blue 9000
You'll definitely want to keep the focus on stealth and intrigue so I'd suggest banning all the base classes except monk, rogue, and ranger. All the other classes could exist, they just wouldn't be good for PCs to take.
On the other hand, other classes can flesh out characters and aren't necessarily entirely inconsistent with the theme - I'd suggest making Monk, Rogue and Ranger the 'base' classes, and allowing multiclassing into other classes, so long as you never have more levels in non-base classes than in the base classes. The exception to this could be prestige classes, which would be limited to those involving stealth and intrigue.

I love the basic idea, by the way - I think Eberron and Thief do share quite a few themes, and could blend well together.
Darkest90
08-21-04, 01:45 PM Only the PCs should have base classes as Rogue, Ranger and Monk.

NPC City Watch would probably be Warriors 1, 2, or 3; if you want to follow the Eberron way of doing things.

NPC Pagans are a varied lot, and very hard to translate into the base classes of D&D. Normal Pagans would probably be Adept 1 or 2/ Warrior 1 or 2. Pagan Shamans are hard to do with normal base classes, but I would suggest Druid 1 / Sorcerer 2, 3, or 4. Dang, even that is rough, you might even have to make an entirely new class for the Shamans.

NPC Hammerites would be a varied lot as well. Your normal Hammerite would probably be Adept 1/ Warrior 2 or 3. Your usual Hammerite Priests would definitely be Cleric 3, 4, or 5. Hammerite Engineers would be Experts 2 or 3, with blacksmithing and mechanic skills and feats.

NPC Keepers are very cool. Your usual one would probably be no more than a Commoner 1/ Rogue 1. Acolytes would be Rogue 2 or 3 / Fighter or Wizard 1. Your usual Keeper Elders would be Rogue 3 / Wizard 3 or 4. If you can work the Prestige Class, the Loremaster, into any of them, it would make them more believable.

These of course, aren't the cream of the crop, just the usual NPCs. Yes, even for Eberron, each of these factions has fairly-powerful members. You come out with those exceptional figures like Inspector Drept of the Hammerites (Cleric 3 / Fighter 4 / Master Inquisitive 3) or High Priest Greidan (I think that's his name) which is a Cleric 8, probably. The Priestess Dyan would be a Druid 4 / Sorcerer 6, with her leuitenant Larkspur a Druid 1 / Fighter 3, Sorcerer 4.

The Keepers have a lot of hero characters within their midst. The First Keeper Orland would probably be a Rogue 3 / Loremaster 4 / Wizard 5. Interpreter Caduca would be a Wizard 3 / Cleric 5 / Loremaster 6. There are more which slip my mind. Each Keeper Enforcer would be a high-classed assassin/warrior with a very cool template that gives them awesome magical powrs.

Garrett, though, he is one of the Keepers we all love, and he is one heck of a high-classed character. Fighter 4 / Rogue 12 I would give to him, unless you wish to add some prestige classes I am not aware of. Man that guy is cool.

Then again, after I have done all of this, it would be much easier to give each faction a Base Class or Prestige Class of their own. Your classic Hammers start being warriors with a good deal of knowledge about mechanics and religious lore, but later on they take up the wand are start throwing fireballs, healing and blessing their allies, and excorsizing the undead.

Your classic Pagans start as secretive warriors with a few small nature-based powers, but later they also take up magic, creating toxic gas and throwing green energy around, as well as summoning up elementals, creating elemental items, and wielding nature to themselves.

You classic Keepers are quiet warriors with an entirely new type of magic: glyph-magic, sort of like runes. They are incredibly good at not being seen, and have a vast knowledge of the world around them. When they progress, they gain flashier magicks and can write more complex runes.

I haven't even gotten to the ultra-cool Mechanists.

Yeah, someone needs to write a sourcebook for Thief, it would be amazing.

- Darkest90
Arch Lich
08-21-04, 01:50 PM I think Garret has some assassin levels he can one hit kill people and knock them out for whole nights that’s allot of nonlethal damage.
Bubba333
08-22-04, 07:25 AM As a HUGE fan of the Thief setting, I've got oodles of stuff from it that I'm putting into my Eberron games. Seriously, I'd love to exchange ideas and the like, so everyone please feel free to message me at my e-mail addy, cool?
Darkest90
08-22-04, 10:39 AM Hey, Bubba, you are my kind of guy. I adore Thief, and all the games in its series. I really hope that Sharn will have a few qualities that The City has, as it would be very cool to play a campaign in a Thiefesque environment, while still keeping it Eberron.
Bubba333
08-22-04, 05:30 PM Originally posted by Darkest90
Hey, Bubba, you are my kind of guy. I adore Thief, and all the games in its series. I really hope that Sharn will have a few qualities that The City has, as it would be very cool to play a campaign in a Thiefesque environment, while still keeping it Eberron.

Have you played Thief: Deadly Shadows??? I bought it, played it, LOVED it, sold it...and I'm actually considering buying it again. It was that good! It was great to see a beloved line still going strong.

Anyhoo, there's quite a bit that can be used from all three games in a Eberron epic. I'm planning on having Karris be a low-level member of House Cannith that wants not only to gain favor and power, but to bring his house to greatness. He finds ancient and forbidden lore which tells of "The Builder" and he decides to learn more. He breaches the wall to The Builder's plane (Mechanus, perhaps?) and becomes his thrall. You can guess the rest of it. It's a rough draft of sorts and needs some tweaking but that's the basic premise. As for The Trickster (don't you just LOVE the way the pagans speak?) I'm thinking he's a very ancient and mad druid of truly epic levels who was the most potent foe against The Builder. He was imprisoned thousands of years ago and has a small but devoted following that keeps his memory alive through worship, all the while speaking out against the depradations of the world of men and metal (they HATE places like Sharn, with all its magitech). They learn of Karris' plans and while spying on him, also learn of how to free The Woodsie Lord. Something like that I guess. Like I said before, it still needs work. Perhaps the war between the two was based in Xen'drik? Or another continent? I have the basic framework, I just need some ideas for the meat.

Oh yes! The City! How could I forget that wonderful place? You could use Sharn, but I feel it would be better to have it made from scratch (based on the games, of course). I was lucky enough to find a website with the jargon for all things Thief, to include the names of the characters (Lord Baffor, etc.).

All-in-all I'm excited to include this in an Eberron game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cheezwizthe47th 08-20-04, 09:01 AM	Hi guys, I've been planning a semi-derivative campaign based on elements of Thief: the Dark Project (a PC game, though if you didn't know that this whole thread might not make too much sense. ;) ) and to a lesser extent the sequels thereof. Originally, I planned to use Ravenloft to fill the gaps beyond what I've gleaned from the games and written myself, but then I grabbed the Eberron book on a whim and I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. I like the general feel, the quality of the atmosphere and the "dark" fantasy approach, and though I'll still probably be mostly making up my own city and the like for the players to explore, I can see it fitting in well with a world like this. There are a few quirks that wouldn't quite fit with this juxtaposition; I'm thinking of banning my players from being any of the fun new races, just because they're not exactly very in tune with the general feel of the Thief games. Though, I can certainly see some Warforged perhaps fitting in the background somewhere, and nobody necessarily notices Changelings, and... well, anyway. Dragonmarks seem a bit too... flashy, for my purposes at least, but they're not exactly diametrically opposed to the concept either. Anyhow, has anybody ever thought about such things before, or perhaps seen other settings like this?
Kid SixXx 08-20-04, 09:04 AM	Originally posted by cheezwizthe47th I like the general feel, the quality of the atmosphere and the "dark" fantasy approach, and though I'll still probably be mostly making up my own city and the like for the players to explore, I can see it fitting in well with a world like this. Wait until the Sharn book comes out & your city questions will be answered.
Deep Blue 9000 08-20-04, 03:30 PM	Very cool campaign idea. Have you played Thief 2: The Metal Age? I think Warforged and Shifters would fit very well into a Thief style game. Warforged could be one of the Mechanist creations and shifters would be right at home in the pagan villages. You'll definitely want to keep the focus on stealth and intrigue so I'd suggest banning all the base classes except monk, rogue, and ranger. All the other classes could exist, they just wouldn't be good for PCs to take.
Darkest90 08-21-04, 06:23 AM	I am doing something like this as well. Because of both my inclination to use homebrew worlds for my campaigns (disobeying lately with Eberron) and mix ideas together, I am creating a world I'll probably use in my next game that mixes Thief with Ebberon. I will probably have a city that combines both Sharn and The City from Thief. There will be tons of factions, some borrowed from Thief and others from Ebberon. The Hammerites could be mixed with the Silver Flame, the Mechanists would be mixed with House Cannith, and the Pagans would be an awesome faction to have a few druid organizations operate within. The Keepers would have to compete with a number of other Eberron factions that operate under secrecy, like the Blood of Vol. I disagree on using dragonmarks, which will make my City much less magical, but since elementals exist in both Thief and Eberron, I don't see why not some people can start binding them into items. Warforged could definitely fit with the Mechanists, and Shifters with the Pagans. The Changelings provide the dark, mysterious feel of Thief, so they are in too. Other races I am not too sure on, as in Thief, humans rule supreme. And, I don't like tolkeinesque races, usually. No elves, no dwarves, no gnomes, no orcs, and probably no kalashtar. Also, don't forget that Thief III: Deadly Shadows is out. I don't know what to draw from that, other than a lot of undead and Pagan wood-mothers (plant elementals.). - Darkest90
MarkB 08-21-04, 06:54 AM	Originally posted by Deep Blue 9000 You'll definitely want to keep the focus on stealth and intrigue so I'd suggest banning all the base classes except monk, rogue, and ranger. All the other classes could exist, they just wouldn't be good for PCs to take. On the other hand, other classes can flesh out characters and aren't necessarily entirely inconsistent with the theme - I'd suggest making Monk, Rogue and Ranger the 'base' classes, and allowing multiclassing into other classes, so long as you never have more levels in non-base classes than in the base classes. The exception to this could be prestige classes, which would be limited to those involving stealth and intrigue. I love the basic idea, by the way - I think Eberron and Thief do share quite a few themes, and could blend well together.
Darkest90 08-21-04, 01:45 PM	Only the PCs should have base classes as Rogue, Ranger and Monk. NPC City Watch would probably be Warriors 1, 2, or 3; if you want to follow the Eberron way of doing things. NPC Pagans are a varied lot, and very hard to translate into the base classes of D&D. Normal Pagans would probably be Adept 1 or 2/ Warrior 1 or 2. Pagan Shamans are hard to do with normal base classes, but I would suggest Druid 1 / Sorcerer 2, 3, or 4. Dang, even that is rough, you might even have to make an entirely new class for the Shamans. NPC Hammerites would be a varied lot as well. Your normal Hammerite would probably be Adept 1/ Warrior 2 or 3. Your usual Hammerite Priests would definitely be Cleric 3, 4, or 5. Hammerite Engineers would be Experts 2 or 3, with blacksmithing and mechanic skills and feats. NPC Keepers are very cool. Your usual one would probably be no more than a Commoner 1/ Rogue 1. Acolytes would be Rogue 2 or 3 / Fighter or Wizard 1. Your usual Keeper Elders would be Rogue 3 / Wizard 3 or 4. If you can work the Prestige Class, the Loremaster, into any of them, it would make them more believable. These of course, aren't the cream of the crop, just the usual NPCs. Yes, even for Eberron, each of these factions has fairly-powerful members. You come out with those exceptional figures like Inspector Drept of the Hammerites (Cleric 3 / Fighter 4 / Master Inquisitive 3) or High Priest Greidan (I think that's his name) which is a Cleric 8, probably. The Priestess Dyan would be a Druid 4 / Sorcerer 6, with her leuitenant Larkspur a Druid 1 / Fighter 3, Sorcerer 4. The Keepers have a lot of hero characters within their midst. The First Keeper Orland would probably be a Rogue 3 / Loremaster 4 / Wizard 5. Interpreter Caduca would be a Wizard 3 / Cleric 5 / Loremaster 6. There are more which slip my mind. Each Keeper Enforcer would be a high-classed assassin/warrior with a very cool template that gives them awesome magical powrs. Garrett, though, he is one of the Keepers we all love, and he is one heck of a high-classed character. Fighter 4 / Rogue 12 I would give to him, unless you wish to add some prestige classes I am not aware of. Man that guy is cool. Then again, after I have done all of this, it would be much easier to give each faction a Base Class or Prestige Class of their own. Your classic Hammers start being warriors with a good deal of knowledge about mechanics and religious lore, but later on they take up the wand are start throwing fireballs, healing and blessing their allies, and excorsizing the undead. Your classic Pagans start as secretive warriors with a few small nature-based powers, but later they also take up magic, creating toxic gas and throwing green energy around, as well as summoning up elementals, creating elemental items, and wielding nature to themselves. You classic Keepers are quiet warriors with an entirely new type of magic: glyph-magic, sort of like runes. They are incredibly good at not being seen, and have a vast knowledge of the world around them. When they progress, they gain flashier magicks and can write more complex runes. I haven't even gotten to the ultra-cool Mechanists. Yeah, someone needs to write a sourcebook for Thief, it would be amazing. - Darkest90
Arch Lich 08-21-04, 01:50 PM	I think Garret has some assassin levels he can one hit kill people and knock them out for whole nights that’s allot of nonlethal damage.
Bubba333 08-22-04, 07:25 AM	As a HUGE fan of the Thief setting, I've got oodles of stuff from it that I'm putting into my Eberron games. Seriously, I'd love to exchange ideas and the like, so everyone please feel free to message me at my e-mail addy, cool?
Darkest90 08-22-04, 10:39 AM	Hey, Bubba, you are my kind of guy. I adore Thief, and all the games in its series. I really hope that Sharn will have a few qualities that The City has, as it would be very cool to play a campaign in a Thiefesque environment, while still keeping it Eberron.
Bubba333 08-22-04, 05:30 PM	Originally posted by Darkest90 Hey, Bubba, you are my kind of guy. I adore Thief, and all the games in its series. I really hope that Sharn will have a few qualities that The City has, as it would be very cool to play a campaign in a Thiefesque environment, while still keeping it Eberron. Have you played Thief: Deadly Shadows??? I bought it, played it, LOVED it, sold it...and I'm actually considering buying it again. It was that good! It was great to see a beloved line still going strong. Anyhoo, there's quite a bit that can be used from all three games in a Eberron epic. I'm planning on having Karris be a low-level member of House Cannith that wants not only to gain favor and power, but to bring his house to greatness. He finds ancient and forbidden lore which tells of "The Builder" and he decides to learn more. He breaches the wall to The Builder's plane (Mechanus, perhaps?) and becomes his thrall. You can guess the rest of it. It's a rough draft of sorts and needs some tweaking but that's the basic premise. As for The Trickster (don't you just LOVE the way the pagans speak?) I'm thinking he's a very ancient and mad druid of truly epic levels who was the most potent foe against The Builder. He was imprisoned thousands of years ago and has a small but devoted following that keeps his memory alive through worship, all the while speaking out against the depradations of the world of men and metal (they HATE places like Sharn, with all its magitech). They learn of Karris' plans and while spying on him, also learn of how to free The Woodsie Lord. Something like that I guess. Like I said before, it still needs work. Perhaps the war between the two was based in Xen'drik? Or another continent? I have the basic framework, I just need some ideas for the meat. Oh yes! The City! How could I forget that wonderful place? You could use Sharn, but I feel it would be better to have it made from scratch (based on the games, of course). I was lucky enough to find a website with the jargon for all things Thief, to include the names of the characters (Lord Baffor, etc.). All-in-all I'm excited to include this in an Eberron game.