Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zerovoid 03-04-05, 02:20 PM	I am considering playing a Arenal Elf Cleric of the Undying Court in an eberron campaign. I think it would be cool to have some Deathless minions with me, but I'm wondering if I can actually cast the Create Deathless spell. Since the Elves of Aerenal reserve Deathless status for only their most revered elders, it doesn't seem appropriate to, say, create a deathless version of a dead kobold and use it to set off traps. Even if a cleric is trying to give new life to a fallen warrior to continue the good fight, is this even something they can do without consulting the Undying Court and the church hierarchy? It seems like this is almost like granting sainthood, which maybe isn't something that an adventuring cleric should be doing out in the field.
Purple Yin 03-04-05, 02:28 PM	deathless....minions?
zerovoid 03-04-05, 02:31 PM	deathless....minions? I know the word minion has some evil connotations. Maybe I should have asked if it was ok for my character to raise up "champions of the light" in the field, without consulting the Undying Court.
Vharuck 03-04-05, 02:53 PM	According to the ECS, only the Priests of Transition can meet and discuss whether or not an elf may be risen as a deathless.
Setherial 03-04-05, 03:07 PM	enchained we'll drag them from our Chariots, and whip their deathless carcasses into submission. Warlord Behelon The Insane of the Dragon Horde, in the year -20.000, The Age of Monsters
Ksaturn 03-05-05, 08:45 AM	no comment... but I can't help myself... They put the spell in there so USE IT. No kobolds please... Stick with warriors of the light man. If your a cleric high enough level to cast THAT you have the authority to decide thier worthiness as alway IMHO... Things i shoun't say to support my case... (Deathless may only be created at the necromantic power sourse that is the heart of Aerenal, Counsult the Counciloers first, Only the greatest amoung elvenkind... Blah Blah Blah) Really...
Gurv 03-05-05, 10:16 AM	I think Ksaturn has the right idea here. If your character know how to cast create deathless, then your character has been taught what qualifies someone to benefit from it. It should be worked out between the DM and the player what this means, but the character himself shouldn't have too much difficulty telling the difference. I would certainly say that the spell should not be used on one's fallen foe's to produce minions which can be controlled with other spells and powers. But there is no restriction by race or anything. The person should have done something noble, died heroically, etc. Although some worshippers may feel that only elves are worthy, you are the cleric, and if anyone has the authority to make exceptions, it would be you. Things i shoun't say to support my case... (Deathless may only be created at the necromantic power sourse that is the heart of Aerenal, Counsult the Counciloers first, Only the greatest amoung elvenkind... Blah Blah Blah) I think that it mostly flavor text. Note that the ECS says the City of the Dead "is the only place where the ritual of the undying can be performed". It doesn't say the only place where create deathless can be cast, simply that the pomp and ceremony can be done. It never defines what the ritual is and for all we know it might be the means by which one becomes an Ascendant Councilor (not within the ability of a PC anyway). I don't think a cleric needs to consult with the Undying Court all the time. The Court has given the cleric authority, and if he needed to be managed all the time, then the court would just do it themselves. No point in having a powerful, capable minion if he has to ask before he acts all the time. That said, when time allows, it might be good roleplaying to use divination spells everyone once in a while to know the correct course. I strongly feel that any players of a cleric or paladin should be able to ask the DM, at any time, whether an action or event is acceptable to his faith. He didn't spend all those years doing nothing but studying spells. He should be considered to know his church's doctrines well enough that he never accidentally does something to oppose them. The religion's rules about who can benefit from a particular spell are something a cleric should automatically know. A cleric should then have the option of using his own judgment to determine whether an exception exists, what he does about it, and how he deals with the repercussions of bending the rules.
AvonRekaes 03-05-05, 04:44 PM	I think Keith has said that the deathless elves of the Undying Court aren't the only deathless creatures on Eberron. You can go with the idea that inducting a deathless elf into the Undying Court, which in it's entirety has the power to rival gods (if they exist), is the really restricted, must-be-considered-by-a-council-of-ancestors type of ritual, while making a deathless creature is not. As long as you don't bring home your deathless kobold with broken off wall sycthes and scorch marks from the burning hands trap and expect to get him inducted into the Undying Court, you'll be fine. So, to recap: Undying are a special type of deathless that can only be created with the consent of the clergy. Deathless creatures in general are fair game.
darkthought 03-05-05, 10:10 PM	I'd think the Undying Court would take much offense at someone making a race other than elves deathless. The "lesser" races aren't worthy of the wisdom and power that it brings. As for animals, I don't see there being too much of a problem, just so long as it's not a displacer beast or beholder you make deathless.