Creation Patterns and Schemas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creation Patterns and Schemas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
theatredad
10-28-05, 06:29 PM I'm just about to run a new Eberron campaign and something has been bugging me the whole while I've been getting it ready. How are the Creation Patterns and Schemas used to make objects. Are they a list of instructions for the artificers or are they like a floppy disk that is inserted into the creation forge, "set-it-and-forget-it" style. I'd like to know how these magical factories work so that my characters could possibly stumble into one.
Just another user
10-28-05, 06:59 PM As things are now, they are a plot device. Whatever the GM say is right.
Kolakuba
10-30-05, 01:19 AM You can find the details for minor schemas in MoE.
Thanqol
10-30-05, 01:54 AM I love the idea of plugging a schema into a creation forge in order to make magic devices ^^! I can just see individual households having their own creation forge and going down to the shops to buy a schema for milk or something ^^.
theatredad
10-30-05, 03:22 AM I know that when it comes down to it, I am god when decisions are made. I just hate it when I make a choice and then it is contradicted by later souce material. I'm also very into the machanics of everything. I really like to know how things tick. How much info is in MoE? I'm thinking of picking it up later this month.
Edymnion
10-30-05, 01:36 PM Essentially, MoE introduces a subset of schemas, called Minor Schemas, that boil down to being a once per day item that holds a spell of up to a certain level. Sort of like an Eternal Scroll with a level limit on it. So, for instance, instead of having a Magewright have to actually cast Continual Flame every time he needs to make an Everbright Lantern, he can just pull out a minor schema and use it to supply the spell.

So, working from that, it would appear the direction schema and creation patterns are going in now is that they supply magical prereqs to item creation. Need to make a golem with a half-dozen spell requirements? If you get enough of the right schema, you can combine them into a creation pattern and supply all the spell prereqs for your golem quite easily.

And while it might sound limiting as far as creativity goes (and in some ways it is), you have to remember that these are only Minor Schema, the lowest man on the totem pole, as it were. There will doubtlessly be much more powerful, much more complex schema out there.

But, as is, its kinda cool, really. Perhaps the reason House Cannith needed the original schema to create the WF is that they contained spells that no one had ever seen before, and that no one could figure out what they were. All they knew was that if you plugged that schema into the Forge, out popped a Warforged. They couldn't figure the spell out, so they just copied the schema directly, plugged them in, and away they go.

Could also explain why Cannith was so unable to modify the WF to any real degree. They try to change a rune here, a rune there on the schema, and suddenly it didn't work at all, or threw out something totally unexpected.

Sort of like how you can take the sentance "Sally put the food in her mouth, and enjoyed how it tasted." If you don't know english, and just try to take a few words that you also don't know what they mean, and just substitute them into the sentance, chances are you will get gibberish. Like "Sally put the interstate in her foot" or something like that. Or, you might get something that still works, but has a TOTALLY differant meaning than the original sentance did. I'll leave any possible sentances for that one up to your imagination. ;)I love the idea of plugging a schema into a creation forge in order to make magic devicesExcept that, far as I remember, no book ever said Creation Forges were used to make anything but the Warforged. And after the War, *ALL* creation forges were supposed to be destroyed. That doesn't make sense if they could make things other than the WF. It would be like saying "We're going to stop making tanks. Destroy every manufacturing plant in the country."
LazarusX
10-31-05, 12:36 AM Could also explain why Cannith was so unable to modify the WF to any real degree. They try to change a rune here, a rune there on the schema, and suddenly it didn't work at all, or threw out something totally unexpected.

This is exactly how I interpreted it. You take one piece of the jigsaw out and it's no longer a complete picture. Even the best artificers of today could possibly have a clue how to adjust them now-a-days; Merrix being the obvious exception, and who else the DM would want to possibly introduce to help supplement or rival him.

I'm currently trying to figure out how to incorporate what happened to Rose Quarry, to current events. Where would be the best place to have this happen again, both being incredibly important as to whereabouts, but not completely neutering powerful NPC's that I might possibly need later on.

Anyone have a city in mind that they wouldn't mind wiping off the map, so-to-speak?
PsionicMonk
10-31-05, 03:22 AM intresting... so maybe Schemas hold exotic spells, or even creation of componets that are required to make them...

I'm thinking that the creation forges, would still be run only by house cannith members, mainly cause of the dragonmark ablitys I think.
Grymar
10-31-05, 09:25 AM Edy has it right, as far as I'm concerned.

In my game I've houseruled that patterns (made with 4 schema) allow 4 crafters (magewrights/arties/whatever) to combine to reduce the construction time and costs of making items. The catch is that the patterns are linked to their dragonmarks, so any circle of 4 craftsmen must have at least two with dragonmarks for the pattern to work. It is a mystery why ancient schemas found in Xen'drik have this requirement...it is something that the dragons are quite interested in testing.

This gives House Cannith both the mass production bonuses and keeps it exclusive to them.
Solarious
10-31-05, 12:45 PM Whoops! Didn't notice this thread before I opened my mouth in the FAQ thread. :gah:

Heh. Regardless, I would like to repost a possible interpetation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=379403) of cooperative crafting and of schema and how they might or might not work. Quite well balanced, and explains how Cannith brings you all those wonderful toys you get in your stocking every year... or maybe they're deadly constructs and traps waiting to snap your hand off. :devil: Depends. :evillaugh
Grymar
10-31-05, 01:16 PM I love your creation feats. That was the same sort of thing I was trying to do with the creation patterns, but you put far more work into it and got far better results.

It solves a few problems, a) how do low level characters make high level items and b) how does House Cannith produce items better/faster/cheaper than any others.

Nice work!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
theatredad 10-28-05, 06:29 PM	I'm just about to run a new Eberron campaign and something has been bugging me the whole while I've been getting it ready. How are the Creation Patterns and Schemas used to make objects. Are they a list of instructions for the artificers or are they like a floppy disk that is inserted into the creation forge, "set-it-and-forget-it" style. I'd like to know how these magical factories work so that my characters could possibly stumble into one.
Just another user 10-28-05, 06:59 PM	As things are now, they are a plot device. Whatever the GM say is right.
Kolakuba 10-30-05, 01:19 AM	You can find the details for minor schemas in MoE.
Thanqol 10-30-05, 01:54 AM	I love the idea of plugging a schema into a creation forge in order to make magic devices ^^! I can just see individual households having their own creation forge and going down to the shops to buy a schema for milk or something ^^.
theatredad 10-30-05, 03:22 AM	I know that when it comes down to it, I am god when decisions are made. I just hate it when I make a choice and then it is contradicted by later souce material. I'm also very into the machanics of everything. I really like to know how things tick. How much info is in MoE? I'm thinking of picking it up later this month.
Edymnion 10-30-05, 01:36 PM	Essentially, MoE introduces a subset of schemas, called Minor Schemas, that boil down to being a once per day item that holds a spell of up to a certain level. Sort of like an Eternal Scroll with a level limit on it. So, for instance, instead of having a Magewright have to actually cast Continual Flame every time he needs to make an Everbright Lantern, he can just pull out a minor schema and use it to supply the spell. So, working from that, it would appear the direction schema and creation patterns are going in now is that they supply magical prereqs to item creation. Need to make a golem with a half-dozen spell requirements? If you get enough of the right schema, you can combine them into a creation pattern and supply all the spell prereqs for your golem quite easily. And while it might sound limiting as far as creativity goes (and in some ways it is), you have to remember that these are only Minor Schema, the lowest man on the totem pole, as it were. There will doubtlessly be much more powerful, much more complex schema out there. But, as is, its kinda cool, really. Perhaps the reason House Cannith needed the original schema to create the WF is that they contained spells that no one had ever seen before, and that no one could figure out what they were. All they knew was that if you plugged that schema into the Forge, out popped a Warforged. They couldn't figure the spell out, so they just copied the schema directly, plugged them in, and away they go. Could also explain why Cannith was so unable to modify the WF to any real degree. They try to change a rune here, a rune there on the schema, and suddenly it didn't work at all, or threw out something totally unexpected. Sort of like how you can take the sentance "Sally put the food in her mouth, and enjoyed how it tasted." If you don't know english, and just try to take a few words that you also don't know what they mean, and just substitute them into the sentance, chances are you will get gibberish. Like "Sally put the interstate in her foot" or something like that. Or, you might get something that still works, but has a TOTALLY differant meaning than the original sentance did. I'll leave any possible sentances for that one up to your imagination. ;)I love the idea of plugging a schema into a creation forge in order to make magic devicesExcept that, far as I remember, no book ever said Creation Forges were used to make anything but the Warforged. And after the War, ALL creation forges were supposed to be destroyed. That doesn't make sense if they could make things other than the WF. It would be like saying "We're going to stop making tanks. Destroy every manufacturing plant in the country."
LazarusX 10-31-05, 12:36 AM	Could also explain why Cannith was so unable to modify the WF to any real degree. They try to change a rune here, a rune there on the schema, and suddenly it didn't work at all, or threw out something totally unexpected. This is exactly how I interpreted it. You take one piece of the jigsaw out and it's no longer a complete picture. Even the best artificers of today could possibly have a clue how to adjust them now-a-days; Merrix being the obvious exception, and who else the DM would want to possibly introduce to help supplement or rival him. I'm currently trying to figure out how to incorporate what happened to Rose Quarry, to current events. Where would be the best place to have this happen again, both being incredibly important as to whereabouts, but not completely neutering powerful NPC's that I might possibly need later on. Anyone have a city in mind that they wouldn't mind wiping off the map, so-to-speak?
PsionicMonk 10-31-05, 03:22 AM	intresting... so maybe Schemas hold exotic spells, or even creation of componets that are required to make them... I'm thinking that the creation forges, would still be run only by house cannith members, mainly cause of the dragonmark ablitys I think.
Grymar 10-31-05, 09:25 AM	Edy has it right, as far as I'm concerned. In my game I've houseruled that patterns (made with 4 schema) allow 4 crafters (magewrights/arties/whatever) to combine to reduce the construction time and costs of making items. The catch is that the patterns are linked to their dragonmarks, so any circle of 4 craftsmen must have at least two with dragonmarks for the pattern to work. It is a mystery why ancient schemas found in Xen'drik have this requirement...it is something that the dragons are quite interested in testing. This gives House Cannith both the mass production bonuses and keeps it exclusive to them.
Solarious 10-31-05, 12:45 PM	Whoops! Didn't notice this thread before I opened my mouth in the FAQ thread. :gah: Heh. Regardless, I would like to repost a possible interpetation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=379403) of cooperative crafting and of schema and how they might or might not work. Quite well balanced, and explains how Cannith brings you all those wonderful toys you get in your stocking every year... or maybe they're deadly constructs and traps waiting to snap your hand off. :devil: Depends. :evillaugh
Grymar 10-31-05, 01:16 PM	I love your creation feats. That was the same sort of thing I was trying to do with the creation patterns, but you put far more work into it and got far better results. It solves a few problems, a) how do low level characters make high level items and b) how does House Cannith produce items better/faster/cheaper than any others. Nice work!