Critical/Fumble tables [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical/Fumble tables [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
edveal
11-14-05, 08:44 PM I am going to be running a campaign soon and would like to use some sort of crit/fumble table. However, I want the table to add to the flavor rather than just add to the potential impact of the attack. Any ideas?
Uller999
11-14-05, 09:28 PM I am going to be running a campaign soon and would like to use some sort of crit/fumble table. However, I want the table to add to the flavor rather than just add to the potential impact of the attack. Any ideas?

You could use the tables from 2nd combat and tactics. I think the book in question is posted in archives somewhere. The list is a bit complicated but once you internalize it a bit can add quite a bit of color to a campaign.
edveal
11-14-05, 09:51 PM Yeah, I have that and will probably end up using it. However, I was just wondering if any has done anything Eberron specific.
Rocksa
11-14-05, 11:16 PM I've always been a fan of having everybody roll a d100 everytime they roll a 1...then if they happen to roll a 1 again on the d100, the world implodes. I think this is part of the reason why my group keeps hiding my fumble tables.
jknevitt
11-15-05, 12:19 AM My house rules:
Criticals
1) If you roll a 20, confirm for a critical.
2) If you roll another 20 to confirm the crit, roll a third time.
3) If you roll a third 20, it's an instant kill -- regardless of the target.

(I've seen a celestial dire badger burrow through a guy's chest in this fashion.)

Fumbles:
Same applies, but with ones. Of course, this means if you roll three 1s in a row, it's some kind of fumble suicide.
a_psh
11-15-05, 12:46 AM My advice would be to avoid it. Fumbles are, to say the least, unheroic.
DoveArrow
11-15-05, 01:02 AM Also, I would say that it should be impossible to critical fumble with a ranged weapon. I mean seriously, how do you accidentally shoot yourself with a longbow?
Galahad_Knight
11-15-05, 01:06 AM The problem with crit and fumble tables is that they always do more harm to the players than the monsters.
PCs make lots of rolls through tons of encounters. Your average monster is only going to make it through one encounter. While there's always more monsters if one disembowels himself, there's only one character per player.

What I would do in Eberron is take a page from Spycraft.
Give the DM a pool of action points (say, as many as the whole party combined) that only replenishes when the PCs level up. They can be used for the same stuff as PCs, but only by Named/PC-class monsters/NPCs.

Most importantly though, they can be used to activate crits or fumbles (or at least special effects based on beyond the normal rules).
Spycraft (and speciffically the Stargate SG1 RPG), had a table of different effects depending on how many action points you wanted to spend.

With Eberron I would just make a small table and then determine the effect by rolling the dice you;d get for your action point.

The fact you have to spend points, and only important NPCs can spend them makes it so that the DM can;t just hose players by sheer statistics, and it makes it so players have to budget their points and decide what's important
Pan_Ai_Khan
11-15-05, 08:49 AM There are some pretty complicated (and horrific / hilarious) critical / fumble tables in the Middle Earth roleplaying game.
I personally have pinned my knees together with a crossbow playing that :embarrass
Bluebrush
11-15-05, 09:22 AM The problem with critical attack fumbles upon rolling a 1 is that they work against the best warriors.

If you're a fighter you're going to be making a load of attack rolls so you have a larger chance of screwing up despite being the better trained combatant.

This problem increases once you get iterative attacks. A sixth level fighter has twice the chance of screwing up compared to a sixth level wizard.
edveal
11-15-05, 09:22 AM Point of clarification!

I am not looking for tables that would result in added damage or injury to the PC or the opponent. What I am looking for is a table to help me with descriptions of that critical hit or miss. I tend to get in ruts with my descriptions of what happens and I thought it might be nice to have some lists to draw from. For example:

PC: Confirmed Critical using a longsword and he does darn near max damage.
DM (me): “As you swing your sword the orc dodges your companion’s blow yet assists you with yours by providing you a clear opening to his defenseless ribs. You drive your sword in deep as the orc begins to crumble”

So I guess I am looking for some descriptive language to use in critical situations for either a hit or a miss.
Godspeed Silent Emperor
11-15-05, 10:25 AM Also, I would say that it should be impossible to critical fumble with a ranged weapon. I mean seriously, how do you accidentally shoot yourself with a longbow?

In a very strange and somehow comedian way? :D
makeshiftwings
11-15-05, 12:32 PM PC: Confirmed Critical using a longsword and he does darn near max damage.
DM (me): “As you swing your sword the orc dodges your companion’s blow yet assists you with yours by providing you a clear opening to his defenseless ribs. You drive your sword in deep as the orc begins to crumble”

Your example sounds great to me; I'd say the best way to do it is to improvise based on what they're fighting and where they are. Tables aren't going to work in many cases... you'll start reading "You drive your blade deep into your opponent's throat and pin him to the wall...." and your PC will say "What? I'm using a hammer. And we're fighting a behloder. In an open field."
edveal
11-15-05, 12:41 PM Maybe table is not the best word. I want a chart (table) that I can glance at to get ideas quickly. Not a table with % or numbers. Just nice chart of cool descriptive terms to be used when the PC crits or fumbles.
Dex
11-15-05, 11:45 PM When I DM i do the 'three crits and you're dead' thing (see jknevitt's post), but i avoid anything that pisses the players off. I just say 'you drop your<whatever weapon>', because a lvl 1 wizard trying to hit a kobald with a quaterstaff does not want to have any chance at all of killing himself. If a party is flleing for their lives and loose a parting shot, dropping the bow is fine (yes you can drop a bow when firing - i have seen i done back in high school archery comps), but shooting another (probably badly wounded) party member is just going to upset people.

Remember, players play dnd because they enjoy it - not because there aren't better things to do. Evil DM's dont get players.
Rocksa
11-16-05, 06:55 PM Also, I would say that it should be impossible to critical fumble with a ranged weapon. I mean seriously, how do you accidentally shoot yourself with a longbow?

Reminds me of the time that a friend of mine was using a Particle Beam Rifle in another game. The description of the rifle was something along the lines of it creating a beam of light that burrows through 150 ft. of whatever. He rolled a 1, DM said he shot himself in the foot...my friend ended up just saying that his foot was gone. I don't know, I've always thought that hitting yourself on a nat 1 was kinda silly. I mean, I could see hitting a fellow pc or something like that if they were in the same square, or maybe just nicking yourself with the weapon, but hitting yourself...I dunno. Always favored the whole "you drop your weapon" idea better.

Anyway, as per the original question type request...whatever.

Critical Hits

1. Your ____ smashes into the ____ skull with a sickening thud and a wet cracking sound, the _____'s eyes roll back as it slumps to the ground.

2. (on three crit instant death) Your blade slashes through the _____'s stomach, the creature drops its weapon as its hands grope over the slash with a mad rush. You hear a ripping sound as if someone were tearing through stitches shortly before the ______'s entrails fall from the gash with a rip and a steamy hiss. The ______ feverently tries to shove his entails back inside of him/herself to no avail. Combat pauses as all who can see stop to watch the ______ fall to its knees with a whimper before dropping lifelessly to the ground. The remaining (if there are any) enemies are shaken, roll fortitude to resist nausea.

3. (on three crit instant death) Your ______ (whatever weapon) rips the _____'s head clear from its boday and sends it flying across the ______ (field, room, whatever). The ______'s body continues to stand and flail its arms around as blood begins to spurt from the remains of the ______'s neck like a fountain. Several seconds pass before the _____'s body finally falls to the ground and ceases to twitch.

Fumbles.

1. (if using a weapon you swing) You swing your ____ wish such force that had you hit the enemy it would have been a splat on the wall right now. Instead the force sends you swinging around before the weapon slips free from your grasp. Roll reflex (or balance) to stay on your feet or to fall prone. Your weapon flies off 1d4 x 5 feet in a random direction, potentially slamming into a different enemy or perhaps a party member (treat as a missed attack into melee)

2. (if using a bow) You feel a sharp stinging on your face as the string of your bow/crossbow snaps in your face. Your bow becomes usless until you restring it.
perrywrogers
11-16-05, 07:55 PM This sounds like a great opportunity for another of those 1001 _____ descriptions threads.
edveal
11-17-05, 09:37 AM This sounds like a great opportunity for another of those 1001 _____ descriptions threads.
Now that is more what I had in mind...
AlDaRoN Arg
11-17-05, 02:37 PM I'm mave my players make confirmation rolls for fumbles too, seems unfair to otherwise.

If you want descriptions for criticals you should read the rolmaster tables.
edveal
11-17-05, 03:12 PM If you want descriptions for criticals you should read the rolmaster tables.
Thanks, that sounds great. However, I have one more question, where can I find the rolmaster tables?
Eben Duskblade
11-17-05, 03:39 PM Our group dropped RM when D&D 3e was published, but we still use the crit tables. The RM crit tables are great for descriptive images. We use them to describe criticals, and other high damage attacks, all of the time.

A quick search of the web should point you towards at least some of the tables in question, I know they were errata'd at some point.
pinky_si
11-17-05, 04:07 PM Another option would be to apply a bit of randomness to the descriptions...

you could use an Excel spreadsheet to generate a list of random fatalities and/or effects.

eg "your weapon ______ ______ your opponent's _____"

producing "your weapon slashes into your opponents arm" or "your weapon cuts through your opponents leg" and, depending how many variables you plug in, many more comedy options as well (a lot of which won't make sense :D )

I use this method for pub names (because my players are pesky and never want to go to the first or even second bar in town, and I get stuck in ruts thinking up names,or use the same name twice in different contexts/towns etc).

Here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/simon.kendrick/Random_Inn_Generator.xls) is a link to my random inn generator spreadsheet. Feel free to save and adapt it to whatever purposes you require. (I've also used a variant to provide convincing Oriental Adventures character names which is Here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/simon.kendrick/OA_Name_Generator.xls)). Both spreadsheets have a single name random function, and a printable d20 table. In either case, use F9 to produce a new set of data.

Hope this helps.
AlDaRoN Arg
11-18-05, 07:09 AM Thanks, that sounds great. However, I have one more question, where can I find the rolmaster tables?

Download them from kazaa or some other peer to peer, most rolmaster book are there. I have a link for a torrent web that may have them but I don't know if it's legal to post them.
perrywrogers
11-19-05, 10:59 AM Has it been done / started?

If not I'll go to the combat section and do it.
perrywrogers
11-21-05, 07:22 PM Okay, I went to the Combat part of the Eberron discussion boards, and started the 1001 crit/fumble descriptions thread.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7810402

Let's party!
WarlockDa
11-21-05, 09:15 PM One thing I've always done was that if you roll a 1, something goes wrong. But it depends on the exact action and situation being taken. Sometimes in SW as a group laugh everyone writes a quick idea and puts them all into a hat...first pick goes :D

Seriously... must of the fumbles we rule as your sword gets stuck in something has you miss,... you lose your grib and toss your weapon/it's knocked out of your hand but your foe,....the string on your bow snaps....

Also with ranged I have warned players firing into a heavy melee,.. 2 PCs fighting 1-2 NPCs in close quarters or limited area,.. that if the ranged attack rolls a 1 then I roll a 1-10...or 20...or 30% chance of a friend being shot instead.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
edveal 11-14-05, 08:44 PM	I am going to be running a campaign soon and would like to use some sort of crit/fumble table. However, I want the table to add to the flavor rather than just add to the potential impact of the attack. Any ideas?
Uller999 11-14-05, 09:28 PM	I am going to be running a campaign soon and would like to use some sort of crit/fumble table. However, I want the table to add to the flavor rather than just add to the potential impact of the attack. Any ideas? You could use the tables from 2nd combat and tactics. I think the book in question is posted in archives somewhere. The list is a bit complicated but once you internalize it a bit can add quite a bit of color to a campaign.
edveal 11-14-05, 09:51 PM	Yeah, I have that and will probably end up using it. However, I was just wondering if any has done anything Eberron specific.
Rocksa 11-14-05, 11:16 PM	I've always been a fan of having everybody roll a d100 everytime they roll a 1...then if they happen to roll a 1 again on the d100, the world implodes. I think this is part of the reason why my group keeps hiding my fumble tables.
jknevitt 11-15-05, 12:19 AM	My house rules: Criticals 1) If you roll a 20, confirm for a critical. 2) If you roll another 20 to confirm the crit, roll a third time. 3) If you roll a third 20, it's an instant kill -- regardless of the target. (I've seen a celestial dire badger burrow through a guy's chest in this fashion.) Fumbles: Same applies, but with ones. Of course, this means if you roll three 1s in a row, it's some kind of fumble suicide.
a_psh 11-15-05, 12:46 AM	My advice would be to avoid it. Fumbles are, to say the least, unheroic.
DoveArrow 11-15-05, 01:02 AM	Also, I would say that it should be impossible to critical fumble with a ranged weapon. I mean seriously, how do you accidentally shoot yourself with a longbow?
Galahad_Knight 11-15-05, 01:06 AM	The problem with crit and fumble tables is that they always do more harm to the players than the monsters. PCs make lots of rolls through tons of encounters. Your average monster is only going to make it through one encounter. While there's always more monsters if one disembowels himself, there's only one character per player. What I would do in Eberron is take a page from Spycraft. Give the DM a pool of action points (say, as many as the whole party combined) that only replenishes when the PCs level up. They can be used for the same stuff as PCs, but only by Named/PC-class monsters/NPCs. Most importantly though, they can be used to activate crits or fumbles (or at least special effects based on beyond the normal rules). Spycraft (and speciffically the Stargate SG1 RPG), had a table of different effects depending on how many action points you wanted to spend. With Eberron I would just make a small table and then determine the effect by rolling the dice you;d get for your action point. The fact you have to spend points, and only important NPCs can spend them makes it so that the DM can;t just hose players by sheer statistics, and it makes it so players have to budget their points and decide what's important
Pan_Ai_Khan 11-15-05, 08:49 AM	There are some pretty complicated (and horrific / hilarious) critical / fumble tables in the Middle Earth roleplaying game. I personally have pinned my knees together with a crossbow playing that :embarrass
Bluebrush 11-15-05, 09:22 AM	The problem with critical attack fumbles upon rolling a 1 is that they work against the best warriors. If you're a fighter you're going to be making a load of attack rolls so you have a larger chance of screwing up despite being the better trained combatant. This problem increases once you get iterative attacks. A sixth level fighter has twice the chance of screwing up compared to a sixth level wizard.
edveal 11-15-05, 09:22 AM	Point of clarification! I am not looking for tables that would result in added damage or injury to the PC or the opponent. What I am looking for is a table to help me with descriptions of that critical hit or miss. I tend to get in ruts with my descriptions of what happens and I thought it might be nice to have some lists to draw from. For example: PC: Confirmed Critical using a longsword and he does darn near max damage. DM (me): “As you swing your sword the orc dodges your companion’s blow yet assists you with yours by providing you a clear opening to his defenseless ribs. You drive your sword in deep as the orc begins to crumble” So I guess I am looking for some descriptive language to use in critical situations for either a hit or a miss.
Godspeed Silent Emperor 11-15-05, 10:25 AM	Also, I would say that it should be impossible to critical fumble with a ranged weapon. I mean seriously, how do you accidentally shoot yourself with a longbow? In a very strange and somehow comedian way? :D
makeshiftwings 11-15-05, 12:32 PM	PC: Confirmed Critical using a longsword and he does darn near max damage. DM (me): “As you swing your sword the orc dodges your companion’s blow yet assists you with yours by providing you a clear opening to his defenseless ribs. You drive your sword in deep as the orc begins to crumble” Your example sounds great to me; I'd say the best way to do it is to improvise based on what they're fighting and where they are. Tables aren't going to work in many cases... you'll start reading "You drive your blade deep into your opponent's throat and pin him to the wall...." and your PC will say "What? I'm using a hammer. And we're fighting a behloder. In an open field."
edveal 11-15-05, 12:41 PM	Maybe table is not the best word. I want a chart (table) that I can glance at to get ideas quickly. Not a table with % or numbers. Just nice chart of cool descriptive terms to be used when the PC crits or fumbles.
Dex 11-15-05, 11:45 PM	When I DM i do the 'three crits and you're dead' thing (see jknevitt's post), but i avoid anything that pisses the players off. I just say 'you drop your<whatever weapon>', because a lvl 1 wizard trying to hit a kobald with a quaterstaff does not want to have any chance at all of killing himself. If a party is flleing for their lives and loose a parting shot, dropping the bow is fine (yes you can drop a bow when firing - i have seen i done back in high school archery comps), but shooting another (probably badly wounded) party member is just going to upset people. Remember, players play dnd because they enjoy it - not because there aren't better things to do. Evil DM's dont get players.
Rocksa 11-16-05, 06:55 PM	Also, I would say that it should be impossible to critical fumble with a ranged weapon. I mean seriously, how do you accidentally shoot yourself with a longbow? Reminds me of the time that a friend of mine was using a Particle Beam Rifle in another game. The description of the rifle was something along the lines of it creating a beam of light that burrows through 150 ft. of whatever. He rolled a 1, DM said he shot himself in the foot...my friend ended up just saying that his foot was gone. I don't know, I've always thought that hitting yourself on a nat 1 was kinda silly. I mean, I could see hitting a fellow pc or something like that if they were in the same square, or maybe just nicking yourself with the weapon, but hitting yourself...I dunno. Always favored the whole "you drop your weapon" idea better. Anyway, as per the original question type request...whatever. Critical Hits 1. Your ____ smashes into the ____ skull with a sickening thud and a wet cracking sound, the _____'s eyes roll back as it slumps to the ground. 2. (on three crit instant death) Your blade slashes through the _____'s stomach, the creature drops its weapon as its hands grope over the slash with a mad rush. You hear a ripping sound as if someone were tearing through stitches shortly before the ______'s entrails fall from the gash with a rip and a steamy hiss. The ______ feverently tries to shove his entails back inside of him/herself to no avail. Combat pauses as all who can see stop to watch the ______ fall to its knees with a whimper before dropping lifelessly to the ground. The remaining (if there are any) enemies are shaken, roll fortitude to resist nausea. 3. (on three crit instant death) Your ______ (whatever weapon) rips the _____'s head clear from its boday and sends it flying across the ______ (field, room, whatever). The ______'s body continues to stand and flail its arms around as blood begins to spurt from the remains of the ______'s neck like a fountain. Several seconds pass before the _____'s body finally falls to the ground and ceases to twitch. Fumbles. 1. (if using a weapon you swing) You swing your ____ wish such force that had you hit the enemy it would have been a splat on the wall right now. Instead the force sends you swinging around before the weapon slips free from your grasp. Roll reflex (or balance) to stay on your feet or to fall prone. Your weapon flies off 1d4 x 5 feet in a random direction, potentially slamming into a different enemy or perhaps a party member (treat as a missed attack into melee) 2. (if using a bow) You feel a sharp stinging on your face as the string of your bow/crossbow snaps in your face. Your bow becomes usless until you restring it.
perrywrogers 11-16-05, 07:55 PM	This sounds like a great opportunity for another of those 1001 _____ descriptions threads.
edveal 11-17-05, 09:37 AM	This sounds like a great opportunity for another of those 1001 _____ descriptions threads. Now that is more what I had in mind...
AlDaRoN Arg 11-17-05, 02:37 PM	I'm mave my players make confirmation rolls for fumbles too, seems unfair to otherwise. If you want descriptions for criticals you should read the rolmaster tables.
edveal 11-17-05, 03:12 PM	If you want descriptions for criticals you should read the rolmaster tables. Thanks, that sounds great. However, I have one more question, where can I find the rolmaster tables?
Eben Duskblade 11-17-05, 03:39 PM	Our group dropped RM when D&D 3e was published, but we still use the crit tables. The RM crit tables are great for descriptive images. We use them to describe criticals, and other high damage attacks, all of the time. A quick search of the web should point you towards at least some of the tables in question, I know they were errata'd at some point.
pinky_si 11-17-05, 04:07 PM	Another option would be to apply a bit of randomness to the descriptions... you could use an Excel spreadsheet to generate a list of random fatalities and/or effects. eg "your weapon ______ ______ your opponent's _____" producing "your weapon slashes into your opponents arm" or "your weapon cuts through your opponents leg" and, depending how many variables you plug in, many more comedy options as well (a lot of which won't make sense :D ) I use this method for pub names (because my players are pesky and never want to go to the first or even second bar in town, and I get stuck in ruts thinking up names,or use the same name twice in different contexts/towns etc). Here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/simon.kendrick/Random_Inn_Generator.xls) is a link to my random inn generator spreadsheet. Feel free to save and adapt it to whatever purposes you require. (I've also used a variant to provide convincing Oriental Adventures character names which is Here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/simon.kendrick/OA_Name_Generator.xls)). Both spreadsheets have a single name random function, and a printable d20 table. In either case, use F9 to produce a new set of data. Hope this helps.
AlDaRoN Arg 11-18-05, 07:09 AM	Thanks, that sounds great. However, I have one more question, where can I find the rolmaster tables? Download them from kazaa or some other peer to peer, most rolmaster book are there. I have a link for a torrent web that may have them but I don't know if it's legal to post them.
perrywrogers 11-19-05, 10:59 AM	Has it been done / started? If not I'll go to the combat section and do it.
perrywrogers 11-21-05, 07:22 PM	Okay, I went to the Combat part of the Eberron discussion boards, and started the 1001 crit/fumble descriptions thread. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7810402 Let's party!
WarlockDa 11-21-05, 09:15 PM	One thing I've always done was that if you roll a 1, something goes wrong. But it depends on the exact action and situation being taken. Sometimes in SW as a group laugh everyone writes a quick idea and puts them all into a hat...first pick goes :D Seriously... must of the fumbles we rule as your sword gets stuck in something has you miss,... you lose your grib and toss your weapon/it's knocked out of your hand but your foe,....the string on your bow snaps.... Also with ranged I have warned players firing into a heavy melee,.. 2 PCs fighting 1-2 NPCs in close quarters or limited area,.. that if the ranged attack rolls a 1 then I roll a 1-10...or 20...or 30% chance of a friend being shot instead.