Daelkyr? Do they re-spawn? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Daelkyr? Do they re-spawn? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
talion09
07-08-05, 06:50 PM So about the possibly redundant question, but I'm on vacation and I had an idea... unfortunately, while I have my laptop, my ECS is in another country...

Do Daelkyr "re-spawn" like other outsiders? Ie, the Lords of Dust, Rakhasa Rajahs, etc. Or are they more along the lines of elementals?
TheRedRobedWizard
07-08-05, 07:08 PM Be warned, this is just my take on things, and I am prone to being wrong by leaps and bounds.

That said, I believe that the Daelkyr cannot 'respawn' as they never die. There isn't really a 'they', more of a 'we'. A collective existance. When a part dies, the existance rebuilds it. This is not to be confused with a collective mind, wherein each Daelkyr knows what each other is experiencing at any given moment (though, that would be damned cool).

So basically, the short version of my answer would be "Yes, mainly."

-TRRW
ekomega
07-08-05, 07:28 PM I would say yes, they do respawn. Simply because the Gatekeepers trapped some of them in Khyber, rather than just killing them. Why would they do that if the Daelkyr didn't respawn?
stone_dog
07-08-05, 07:41 PM Why would they do that if the Daelkyr didn't respawn?
Probably because they didn't have enough 20th level characters to lay the kind of epic smackdown that it would take to actually slay one of the things. A CR 20 critter is supposed to be a challange for four PCs isn't it? Ah, but a plot device/ritual fueled by the arcane secrets of the Dragons that merely keeps them bound away from the surface... THAT a few score druids chanting at auspicious moments with draconic aid.. that a bit more tasty than a bunch of mega-orcs on epic bug hunts.

Personally? I don't think that they do respawn on Eberron. On Xoriat or Xoriat manifest zones they might get recycled back into Azathoth's gullet or whatever happens in Xoriat, but I do feel that either way that particular Daelkyr will never be seen again. Not that it matters, they all look alike. ;)
KP91
07-08-05, 10:51 PM Also to add to the above. CR 20 plus many may have class levels.
lugnut71
07-09-05, 12:27 AM I think that is unlikely that they "respawn". I really don't think anything does in Eberron. Although when one outsider dies in Eberron another one forms to replace them in their home planes.
talion09
07-09-05, 01:18 AM ...Although when one outsider dies in Eberron another one forms to replace them in their home planes.

Yeah, that was what I was getting at.

I'm looking at the end goal of my campaign being the party battling one of the Daelkyr emerging from Khyber after some of the seals have been destroyed/suppressed by an Eldritch Machine... and I was thinking about possible results of the final battle:

1. The party falls to the Daelkyr. Possible, but not the end I'm hoping for, lol.

2. The party manages to hold off the Daelkyr long enough for their Gatekeeper allies to destroy the eldritch machine and restore the seals, thereby sealing the Daelkyr back into the depths of Khyber. This is the more likely outcome.

3. The party gets lucky and actually slays the Daelkyr. The least likely of the possibilities, but still possible.

I was trying to think of how to keep the Cthulu-esque feel of the heroes doing their best, and possibly dying in the process, but still only being able to stave off the inevitable for a while longer. I thought that if the Daelkyr did respawn back on Xoriat after being slain, then that would fit this theme. The party went to epic extremes to kill the Daelkyr trapped in Khyber, but all they have really managed to do was cause it to re-form (albeit without the same memories) back on Xoriat, waiting for the seals to go down and to invade again...
ImmortalBlueMage
07-10-05, 06:53 AM Short answer: If you want them to.
hiryuu
07-10-05, 07:16 AM Well, yes. Typically in the same area. Hopefully when the patch comes out, they'll include a random location roll for the Daelkyr's respawn point, otherwise it's pointless due to the adventurers camping the current spot.
MarkB
07-10-05, 07:17 AM I think that is unlikely that they "respawn". I really don't think anything does in Eberron. Although when one outsider dies in Eberron another one forms to replace them in their home planes.
The Rakshasa are outsiders native to Eberron, and according to Keith, if one dies another will be spawned somewhere in the Demon Wastes.

That said, I don't think this will apply to Daelkyr - they aren't native to Eberron, and couldn't respawn there.
lugnut71
07-10-05, 09:51 PM Yes but Eberron isn't their home plane. I think a new appears in Xoriat.
LugWrench
07-11-05, 01:54 AM Well, if its possible to slay all the Daelkyr on Eberron then the setting is going to run out of Really Bad Guys at some point. Granted the Daelkyr are immortal, but that doesnt mean they cant be killed.
Or perhaps the Gatekeepers could only strike a balance, rather than truly seal Xoriat away. When a Daelkyr is slain on Eberron, there is an imbalance. The multiverse corrects this balance by allowing a Daelkyr to slip from Xoriat to Eberron. The balance is restored, there are six (or what ever number) Daelkyr on Eberron again.
In that way, it would be possible to kill the Daelkyr, but still keep them as an ominous threat to Eberron.
MarkB
07-11-05, 03:01 AM Well, if its possible to slay all the Daelkyr on Eberron then the setting is going to run out of Really Bad Guys at some point. Granted the Daelkyr are immortal, but that doesnt mean they cant be killed.
Or perhaps the Gatekeepers could only strike a balance, rather than truly seal Xoriat away. When a Daelkyr is slain on Eberron, there is an imbalance. The multiverse corrects this balance by allowing a Daelkyr to slip from Xoriat to Eberron. The balance is restored, there are six (or what ever number) Daelkyr on Eberron again.
In that way, it would be possible to kill the Daelkyr, but still keep them as an ominous threat to Eberron.
Either that, or the only reason Xoriat has remained Remote is that the plane's finest minds and best planar engineers are all stuck beneath Eberron. Respawn them on Xoriat and the new Daelkyr will find a way to launch a new planar invasion within months.
AvonRekaes
07-11-05, 04:12 AM I think it's the case with any outsider that when they die another one of their "species" is born.

I.E. a Balor dies, a Balor is born, a Lemure dies, a Lemure is born.

As part of this, I think the creature that is born is a completely new creature. The only thing that is "recycled" is the species of the dead outsider, not it's experiences or personal power.

So, if the "planar engineers" of the Daelkyr are trapped in Khyber, all with 20+ levels of Wizard or Artificer, then when they die a plain-old 20 HD Daelkyr will pop up in Xoriat. No memories, no class levels. Blank slate.

At least thats how it works in my campaign.
talion09
07-11-05, 12:47 PM I think it's the case with any outsider that when they die another one of their "species" is born.

I.E. a Balor dies, a Balor is born, a Lemure dies, a Lemure is born.

As part of this, I think the creature that is born is a completely new creature. The only thing that is "recycled" is the species of the dead outsider, not it's experiences or personal power.

So, if the "planar engineers" of the Daelkyr are trapped in Khyber, all with 20+ levels of Wizard or Artificer, then when they die a plain-old 20 HD Daelkyr will pop up in Xoriat. No memories, no class levels. Blank slate.

At least thats how it works in my campaign.

Yeah, that is along the lines of what I was thinking. So the party can "win" by slaying the Daelkyr if they are lucky, but all they have done is create a "new" 20 HD Daelkyr back in Xoriat, which is merely putting off the problem off another Xoriat invasion.
CzarGarrett
07-11-05, 01:21 PM To me, it almost seems as if the Daelkyr go through a mental recyling process.

D1 lives for 500 years and then gets killed by something. The mental essence of D1 goes into the heart of Xoriat, and D's 2, 3, & 4 are 'born'. D2,3,4 now all have the knowledge that D1 gained. But they do not share the information among themselves. So if D2 learns X, D3 learns Y, and D4 learns Z, thats all they have unless the knowledge is specifically shared. But if D2 dies after learning X, then D5 will have everything D1 and D2 learnt. Kinda like a snowball effect. The next will be greater than the prior.
Psymnotica
07-11-05, 02:13 PM Personally, my own opinion on it is that the Daelkyr have been trapped by the Gatekeepers Dimensional Seals & its interactions with the energies of Khyber, which has two effects (in my campaign). First, they cannot leave Khyber. Not physically, spiritually or mentally. This means no walks in the sun, no astral projection, and no being reborn in Xoriat. Second, the Seals (combined with the energies of Khyber) curb the Daelky's desires of escape, meaning they see little need in trying to break out of their prison. It doesn't mean they won't stop trying to destroy, conquer or warp the lands surrounding theirs. Just not try to leave Khyber.

These two effects, combined with the sheer power, reality bending presence, and psychic dynamo that is the Daelkyr, allows them to be reborn through one of their followers who they have impregnated with their own madness (i.e. any abberation that they, personally, have created) in a special birthing chamber they tend to create in their lairs. The birthing chambers themselves are colossal aberrations, formed from the twisted bodies of hundereds, if not thousands of victims of the Daelkyr's "vision," with each being now a pulsing, twitching part of the whole.

And when the Daelkyr dies one of its loyal minions gets the overwhelming psychic command to begin the trek to the birthing chamber, there to start its gestation/mutation as the black madness that is Daelkyr is reborn into flesh once more.

But, I am a long way off in my campaign before I can begin to implement the Daelkyr (14 or so more levels before I'll pit my players up against one), so all of this is completely subject to change. :)

Cheers!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
talion09 07-08-05, 06:50 PM	So about the possibly redundant question, but I'm on vacation and I had an idea... unfortunately, while I have my laptop, my ECS is in another country... Do Daelkyr "re-spawn" like other outsiders? Ie, the Lords of Dust, Rakhasa Rajahs, etc. Or are they more along the lines of elementals?
TheRedRobedWizard 07-08-05, 07:08 PM	Be warned, this is just my take on things, and I am prone to being wrong by leaps and bounds. That said, I believe that the Daelkyr cannot 'respawn' as they never die. There isn't really a 'they', more of a 'we'. A collective existance. When a part dies, the existance rebuilds it. This is not to be confused with a collective mind, wherein each Daelkyr knows what each other is experiencing at any given moment (though, that would be damned cool). So basically, the short version of my answer would be "Yes, mainly." -TRRW
ekomega 07-08-05, 07:28 PM	I would say yes, they do respawn. Simply because the Gatekeepers trapped some of them in Khyber, rather than just killing them. Why would they do that if the Daelkyr didn't respawn?
stone_dog 07-08-05, 07:41 PM	Why would they do that if the Daelkyr didn't respawn? Probably because they didn't have enough 20th level characters to lay the kind of epic smackdown that it would take to actually slay one of the things. A CR 20 critter is supposed to be a challange for four PCs isn't it? Ah, but a plot device/ritual fueled by the arcane secrets of the Dragons that merely keeps them bound away from the surface... THAT a few score druids chanting at auspicious moments with draconic aid.. that a bit more tasty than a bunch of mega-orcs on epic bug hunts. Personally? I don't think that they do respawn on Eberron. On Xoriat or Xoriat manifest zones they might get recycled back into Azathoth's gullet or whatever happens in Xoriat, but I do feel that either way that particular Daelkyr will never be seen again. Not that it matters, they all look alike. ;)
KP91 07-08-05, 10:51 PM	Also to add to the above. CR 20 plus many may have class levels.
lugnut71 07-09-05, 12:27 AM	I think that is unlikely that they "respawn". I really don't think anything does in Eberron. Although when one outsider dies in Eberron another one forms to replace them in their home planes.
talion09 07-09-05, 01:18 AM	...Although when one outsider dies in Eberron another one forms to replace them in their home planes. Yeah, that was what I was getting at. I'm looking at the end goal of my campaign being the party battling one of the Daelkyr emerging from Khyber after some of the seals have been destroyed/suppressed by an Eldritch Machine... and I was thinking about possible results of the final battle: 1. The party falls to the Daelkyr. Possible, but not the end I'm hoping for, lol. 2. The party manages to hold off the Daelkyr long enough for their Gatekeeper allies to destroy the eldritch machine and restore the seals, thereby sealing the Daelkyr back into the depths of Khyber. This is the more likely outcome. 3. The party gets lucky and actually slays the Daelkyr. The least likely of the possibilities, but still possible. I was trying to think of how to keep the Cthulu-esque feel of the heroes doing their best, and possibly dying in the process, but still only being able to stave off the inevitable for a while longer. I thought that if the Daelkyr did respawn back on Xoriat after being slain, then that would fit this theme. The party went to epic extremes to kill the Daelkyr trapped in Khyber, but all they have really managed to do was cause it to re-form (albeit without the same memories) back on Xoriat, waiting for the seals to go down and to invade again...
ImmortalBlueMage 07-10-05, 06:53 AM	Short answer: If you want them to.
hiryuu 07-10-05, 07:16 AM	Well, yes. Typically in the same area. Hopefully when the patch comes out, they'll include a random location roll for the Daelkyr's respawn point, otherwise it's pointless due to the adventurers camping the current spot.
MarkB 07-10-05, 07:17 AM	I think that is unlikely that they "respawn". I really don't think anything does in Eberron. Although when one outsider dies in Eberron another one forms to replace them in their home planes. The Rakshasa are outsiders native to Eberron, and according to Keith, if one dies another will be spawned somewhere in the Demon Wastes. That said, I don't think this will apply to Daelkyr - they aren't native to Eberron, and couldn't respawn there.
lugnut71 07-10-05, 09:51 PM	Yes but Eberron isn't their home plane. I think a new appears in Xoriat.
LugWrench 07-11-05, 01:54 AM	Well, if its possible to slay all the Daelkyr on Eberron then the setting is going to run out of Really Bad Guys at some point. Granted the Daelkyr are immortal, but that doesnt mean they cant be killed. Or perhaps the Gatekeepers could only strike a balance, rather than truly seal Xoriat away. When a Daelkyr is slain on Eberron, there is an imbalance. The multiverse corrects this balance by allowing a Daelkyr to slip from Xoriat to Eberron. The balance is restored, there are six (or what ever number) Daelkyr on Eberron again. In that way, it would be possible to kill the Daelkyr, but still keep them as an ominous threat to Eberron.
MarkB 07-11-05, 03:01 AM	Well, if its possible to slay all the Daelkyr on Eberron then the setting is going to run out of Really Bad Guys at some point. Granted the Daelkyr are immortal, but that doesnt mean they cant be killed. Or perhaps the Gatekeepers could only strike a balance, rather than truly seal Xoriat away. When a Daelkyr is slain on Eberron, there is an imbalance. The multiverse corrects this balance by allowing a Daelkyr to slip from Xoriat to Eberron. The balance is restored, there are six (or what ever number) Daelkyr on Eberron again. In that way, it would be possible to kill the Daelkyr, but still keep them as an ominous threat to Eberron. Either that, or the only reason Xoriat has remained Remote is that the plane's finest minds and best planar engineers are all stuck beneath Eberron. Respawn them on Xoriat and the new Daelkyr will find a way to launch a new planar invasion within months.
AvonRekaes 07-11-05, 04:12 AM	I think it's the case with any outsider that when they die another one of their "species" is born. I.E. a Balor dies, a Balor is born, a Lemure dies, a Lemure is born. As part of this, I think the creature that is born is a completely new creature. The only thing that is "recycled" is the species of the dead outsider, not it's experiences or personal power. So, if the "planar engineers" of the Daelkyr are trapped in Khyber, all with 20+ levels of Wizard or Artificer, then when they die a plain-old 20 HD Daelkyr will pop up in Xoriat. No memories, no class levels. Blank slate. At least thats how it works in my campaign.
talion09 07-11-05, 12:47 PM	I think it's the case with any outsider that when they die another one of their "species" is born. I.E. a Balor dies, a Balor is born, a Lemure dies, a Lemure is born. As part of this, I think the creature that is born is a completely new creature. The only thing that is "recycled" is the species of the dead outsider, not it's experiences or personal power. So, if the "planar engineers" of the Daelkyr are trapped in Khyber, all with 20+ levels of Wizard or Artificer, then when they die a plain-old 20 HD Daelkyr will pop up in Xoriat. No memories, no class levels. Blank slate. At least thats how it works in my campaign. Yeah, that is along the lines of what I was thinking. So the party can "win" by slaying the Daelkyr if they are lucky, but all they have done is create a "new" 20 HD Daelkyr back in Xoriat, which is merely putting off the problem off another Xoriat invasion.
CzarGarrett 07-11-05, 01:21 PM	To me, it almost seems as if the Daelkyr go through a mental recyling process. D1 lives for 500 years and then gets killed by something. The mental essence of D1 goes into the heart of Xoriat, and D's 2, 3, & 4 are 'born'. D2,3,4 now all have the knowledge that D1 gained. But they do not share the information among themselves. So if D2 learns X, D3 learns Y, and D4 learns Z, thats all they have unless the knowledge is specifically shared. But if D2 dies after learning X, then D5 will have everything D1 and D2 learnt. Kinda like a snowball effect. The next will be greater than the prior.
Psymnotica 07-11-05, 02:13 PM	Personally, my own opinion on it is that the Daelkyr have been trapped by the Gatekeepers Dimensional Seals & its interactions with the energies of Khyber, which has two effects (in my campaign). First, they cannot leave Khyber. Not physically, spiritually or mentally. This means no walks in the sun, no astral projection, and no being reborn in Xoriat. Second, the Seals (combined with the energies of Khyber) curb the Daelky's desires of escape, meaning they see little need in trying to break out of their prison. It doesn't mean they won't stop trying to destroy, conquer or warp the lands surrounding theirs. Just not try to leave Khyber. These two effects, combined with the sheer power, reality bending presence, and psychic dynamo that is the Daelkyr, allows them to be reborn through one of their followers who they have impregnated with their own madness (i.e. any abberation that they, personally, have created) in a special birthing chamber they tend to create in their lairs. The birthing chambers themselves are colossal aberrations, formed from the twisted bodies of hundereds, if not thousands of victims of the Daelkyr's "vision," with each being now a pulsing, twitching part of the whole. And when the Daelkyr dies one of its loyal minions gets the overwhelming psychic command to begin the trek to the birthing chamber, there to start its gestation/mutation as the black madness that is Daelkyr is reborn into flesh once more. But, I am a long way off in my campaign before I can begin to implement the Daelkyr (14 or so more levels before I'll pit my players up against one), so all of this is completely subject to change. :) Cheers!