Dal Quar: Kalashtar & Inspired Motivations [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dal Quar: Kalashtar & Inspired Motivations [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shirono Usagi
07-30-05, 03:14 PM Hello All!

I'm looking to make a character using the Kalashtar Race, (inspired are NPC material after all) and I have the worst problem I can imagine. A lack of knowledge. I have the Races of Ebberon book. This explains alot about the Kalashtar in the Material Plane. My only question is, What about Dal Quar?

What exactly happened in Dal Quar? I made some guesses, but they are all just me looking for the deeper part of something unexplained. I understand that the Quari have to have had some sort of fracture within their race and this produced a rebel faction that came to the material plane, and over time created the Kalashtar. I also know that the inspired are Quari possesing people from the material plane. They then, over the years, began sculpting the perfect host so that the Quari could be unfettered by the person it possesed. ( To me it looks like they both did the same thing only one wanted to be itself while on the material plane and the other was willing to look at it as an ansestrial thing.)

This boils down to, what happend to make the rebels in the first place? Is it like a Heaven/ Hell thing between Dream Quar and Nightmare Quar? Are the Dreaming Dark like the lords of the Devils and Deamons only Nightmare Spirits instead? Was there a war on Dal Quar? Are the Inspired REALLY Evil? or are they the good guys on Dal Quar trying to eliminate the evil rebels? Is this conjecture all just up to the DM and Player while they make the characters backstory?

I really hope someone out there has the answer. I would love to use the Kalashtar, but I think I need a little more knowledge about what I'm doing before I can do that.

Thanks a bunch!
Sirono-San
darkthought
07-30-05, 03:43 PM Hoy, you ask the big questions, don't you. :)

Let me see if I can direct you in the right way...

First off, the Inspired and Quori in Dal Quor are evil. EVIL! They will do ANYTHING to finish their goals (which are a mystery) and use ANY means. Yes, that includes genocide.

There is a fixed number of Quori alive at any one time. When a Quori dies, a new one is born from the middle of Dal Quor. So when the rebel Quori left the Plane of Dreams and melded with human monks in Adar, that means that there is now a number of Quori missing from the Realm of Dreams that will never be reborn. Their spirits are alive, but just spread out through all the different kalashtar in their line. So the Dreaming Dark wishes to kill ALL the kalashtar, so the spirits that are bound in these mortal bodies can be reborn back in Dal Quor.

I'd read the Kalashtar chapter in Races of Eberron again, along with the chapter on the Inspired starting on page 98. Also scroll through the Ask Kieth Baker FAQ thread, he's answered many many questions on the Kalashtar, Quori, and Dal Quor.
Hellcow
07-30-05, 03:44 PM This boils down to, what happend to make the rebels in the first place?
You said that you have Races of Eberron, right? Have you read the religion section that starts on page 64? That's the fundamental basis of the split, right there.
Gurv
07-30-05, 04:31 PM What exactly happened in Dal Quar? I made some guesses, but they are all just me looking for the deeper part of something unexplained. I understand that the Quari have to have had some sort of fracture within their race and this produced a rebel faction that came to the material plane, and over time created the Kalashtar. I also know that the inspired are Quari possesing people from the material plane. They then, over the years, began sculpting the perfect host so that the Quari could be unfettered by the person it possesed. ( To me it looks like they both did the same thing only one wanted to be itself while on the material plane and the other was willing to look at it as an ansestrial thing.)
You seem to have a pretty good understanding of this. Except that it is spelled with an "o". Dal Quor, Quori, Quor. :)

This boils down to, what happend to make the rebels in the first place? Is it like a Heaven/ Hell thing between Dream Quar and Nightmare Quar? Are the Dreaming Dark like the lords of the Devils and Deamons only Nightmare Spirits instead? Was there a war on Dal Quar? Are the Inspired REALLY Evil? or are they the good guys on Dal Quar trying to eliminate the evil rebels? Is this conjecture all just up to the DM and Player while they make the characters backstory?
In order:
The rebels simply felt that they did not belong to the current age- for whatever reason, they were not the same as the other quori.

Yes, it is somewhat like heaven vs. hell, but a whole lot more subtle.

There were battles on Dal Quor, although none have been detailed much. The quori who eventually became the kalashtar wished to change things, while the rest feared that change. The pre-kalashtar had a very difficult time gaining their freedom and fleeing the Dream Realm, and no doubt there were terrible battles during that attempt.

I think that whether the Inspired are evil or not depends on your point of view, and if your point of view is human, then the answer is going to have to be "yes". The typical quori isn't evil in the same way a murderer is evil (although plenty of quori are evil in that way too). It is evil by the definition that its very existence is harmful to us. Like it or not, being near a quori is like being tortured by your worst nightmare. They are evil because their very presence manifests as feat and terror. Combine that with the fact that most quori are indifferent to the suffering they cause, actually gaining sustenance and enjoyment from it, and it is hard to say that they're good beings. On the other hand, it is also hard to deny that quori have no control over what they are any more than we do, that they are entitled to their way of life in their own world, and that the kalashtar really do pose a threat to that way of life. So the Inspired have that most annoying ability to be evil and right, at least about the kalashtar being terrorists.

Most of this is still up in the air, and I think a great amount of detail is going to be left to the individual DM to do with as he wishes. At least, I hope so.
Hellcow
07-30-05, 05:25 PM On the other hand, it is also hard to deny that quori have no control over what they are any more than we do, that they are entitled to their way of life in their own world, and that the kalashtar really do pose a threat to that way of life. So the Inspired have that most annoying ability to be evil and right, at least about the kalashtar being terrorists.
Well said, Gurv.

And again, the quori aren't human. For the vast majority of them, their personalities were simply shaped by the Quor Tarai: they were born with an inherent knowledge of what they were and their place in the universe, and have never thought to question it. A tsucora is, by nature, a spirit that feeds off of mortal fear. Humans are its natural prey: this is the way of the age. The quori ancestors of the kalashtar felt that the age itself was an abomination and sought to change it. But while a typical tsucora feeds off the terror of others, and does enjoy toying with mortals - it is doing what comes naturally.

And as Gurv has said, the Dreaming Dark is simply fighting to survive: it is the kalashtar who are trying to destroy their way of life. It's just that the quori are willing to sacrfice as many mortals as they have to in order to preserve their own existence. They don't see humans as equals. So to us, they are deadly and evil: in their eyes, they are doing what must be done to preserve their superior civilization.
Psionycx
07-30-05, 08:55 PM The real world parallels are both glaringly obvious and much too likely to start a political debate, so I'll avoid them.

But it is worth noting that this is the essential conflict between Good and Evil. Good does not automatically have a live-and-let-live attitude. Good frequently becomes militant in the face of Evil.

The adherents of the Path of Light decided that the nightmare that is currently the system in Dal Quor doesn't have to be, and so they opposed it even though their plan called for the destruction of all currently existing Quori.

Now, there goal is certainly noble enough. So was the goal of the Church of the Silver Flame when they launched their crusade against lycanthropy. But there are those that would argue.

Now, since the kalashtar are benevolent towards other races, and since they want to get rid of creatures like tsucora that feed on mortal fear, most people would deem the goals of the Path of Light as a good thing. This is especially true of those that remember that the Quori once tried to conquer Eberron. The Quori are not just floating around Dal Quor minding their own business after all!

So, essentially, the kalashtar seek to create a future where Good triumphs over the Dreaming Dark. The Inspired seek to maintain the nightmare and conquer Eberron because, well, it is in their best interests to do so.
Hellcow
07-30-05, 11:37 PM In general, I agree with you, Psionycx, but...

This is especially true of those that remember that the Quori once tried to conquer Eberron.
If you're talking about the incursion on Xen'drik during the Age of the Giants, that was the previous cycle of Dal Quor, so the quori of the present day had nothing to do with it. Furthermore, people don't really KNOW what the quori of that age were trying to do back then: the only thing that's known for certain is that it resulted in a violent conflict with the giants. The common assumption is that it was a desperate attempt by the prior quori to prevent the turning of the cycle. But it's possible that the quori attempted peaceful contact... hoping that the wizards among the giants could help them find another solution... and that the giants were the agressors, striking across the planes at the quori. The answer lies deep in Xen'drik, waiting to be found.

With that said, the quori invasion is certainly the most common theory: certainly the quori arrival resulted in a devastating and lengthy conflict. But since both the civilizations involved in the conflict have been destroyed for over 30,000 years (or 300,000 years, if you're quori), and the records of giants are hidden in the depths of Xen'drik; nothing can be known for certain; even the Dreaming Dark is eager to find out the truth of the last cycle.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shirono Usagi 07-30-05, 03:14 PM	Hello All! I'm looking to make a character using the Kalashtar Race, (inspired are NPC material after all) and I have the worst problem I can imagine. A lack of knowledge. I have the Races of Ebberon book. This explains alot about the Kalashtar in the Material Plane. My only question is, What about Dal Quar? What exactly happened in Dal Quar? I made some guesses, but they are all just me looking for the deeper part of something unexplained. I understand that the Quari have to have had some sort of fracture within their race and this produced a rebel faction that came to the material plane, and over time created the Kalashtar. I also know that the inspired are Quari possesing people from the material plane. They then, over the years, began sculpting the perfect host so that the Quari could be unfettered by the person it possesed. ( To me it looks like they both did the same thing only one wanted to be itself while on the material plane and the other was willing to look at it as an ansestrial thing.) This boils down to, what happend to make the rebels in the first place? Is it like a Heaven/ Hell thing between Dream Quar and Nightmare Quar? Are the Dreaming Dark like the lords of the Devils and Deamons only Nightmare Spirits instead? Was there a war on Dal Quar? Are the Inspired REALLY Evil? or are they the good guys on Dal Quar trying to eliminate the evil rebels? Is this conjecture all just up to the DM and Player while they make the characters backstory? I really hope someone out there has the answer. I would love to use the Kalashtar, but I think I need a little more knowledge about what I'm doing before I can do that. Thanks a bunch! Sirono-San
darkthought 07-30-05, 03:43 PM	Hoy, you ask the big questions, don't you. :) Let me see if I can direct you in the right way... First off, the Inspired and Quori in Dal Quor are evil. EVIL! They will do ANYTHING to finish their goals (which are a mystery) and use ANY means. Yes, that includes genocide. There is a fixed number of Quori alive at any one time. When a Quori dies, a new one is born from the middle of Dal Quor. So when the rebel Quori left the Plane of Dreams and melded with human monks in Adar, that means that there is now a number of Quori missing from the Realm of Dreams that will never be reborn. Their spirits are alive, but just spread out through all the different kalashtar in their line. So the Dreaming Dark wishes to kill ALL the kalashtar, so the spirits that are bound in these mortal bodies can be reborn back in Dal Quor. I'd read the Kalashtar chapter in Races of Eberron again, along with the chapter on the Inspired starting on page 98. Also scroll through the Ask Kieth Baker FAQ thread, he's answered many many questions on the Kalashtar, Quori, and Dal Quor.
Hellcow 07-30-05, 03:44 PM	This boils down to, what happend to make the rebels in the first place? You said that you have Races of Eberron, right? Have you read the religion section that starts on page 64? That's the fundamental basis of the split, right there.
Gurv 07-30-05, 04:31 PM	What exactly happened in Dal Quar? I made some guesses, but they are all just me looking for the deeper part of something unexplained. I understand that the Quari have to have had some sort of fracture within their race and this produced a rebel faction that came to the material plane, and over time created the Kalashtar. I also know that the inspired are Quari possesing people from the material plane. They then, over the years, began sculpting the perfect host so that the Quari could be unfettered by the person it possesed. ( To me it looks like they both did the same thing only one wanted to be itself while on the material plane and the other was willing to look at it as an ansestrial thing.) You seem to have a pretty good understanding of this. Except that it is spelled with an "o". Dal Quor, Quori, Quor. :) This boils down to, what happend to make the rebels in the first place? Is it like a Heaven/ Hell thing between Dream Quar and Nightmare Quar? Are the Dreaming Dark like the lords of the Devils and Deamons only Nightmare Spirits instead? Was there a war on Dal Quar? Are the Inspired REALLY Evil? or are they the good guys on Dal Quar trying to eliminate the evil rebels? Is this conjecture all just up to the DM and Player while they make the characters backstory? In order: The rebels simply felt that they did not belong to the current age- for whatever reason, they were not the same as the other quori. Yes, it is somewhat like heaven vs. hell, but a whole lot more subtle. There were battles on Dal Quor, although none have been detailed much. The quori who eventually became the kalashtar wished to change things, while the rest feared that change. The pre-kalashtar had a very difficult time gaining their freedom and fleeing the Dream Realm, and no doubt there were terrible battles during that attempt. I think that whether the Inspired are evil or not depends on your point of view, and if your point of view is human, then the answer is going to have to be "yes". The typical quori isn't evil in the same way a murderer is evil (although plenty of quori are evil in that way too). It is evil by the definition that its very existence is harmful to us. Like it or not, being near a quori is like being tortured by your worst nightmare. They are evil because their very presence manifests as feat and terror. Combine that with the fact that most quori are indifferent to the suffering they cause, actually gaining sustenance and enjoyment from it, and it is hard to say that they're good beings. On the other hand, it is also hard to deny that quori have no control over what they are any more than we do, that they are entitled to their way of life in their own world, and that the kalashtar really do pose a threat to that way of life. So the Inspired have that most annoying ability to be evil and right, at least about the kalashtar being terrorists. Most of this is still up in the air, and I think a great amount of detail is going to be left to the individual DM to do with as he wishes. At least, I hope so.
Hellcow 07-30-05, 05:25 PM	On the other hand, it is also hard to deny that quori have no control over what they are any more than we do, that they are entitled to their way of life in their own world, and that the kalashtar really do pose a threat to that way of life. So the Inspired have that most annoying ability to be evil and right, at least about the kalashtar being terrorists. Well said, Gurv. And again, the quori aren't human. For the vast majority of them, their personalities were simply shaped by the Quor Tarai: they were born with an inherent knowledge of what they were and their place in the universe, and have never thought to question it. A tsucora is, by nature, a spirit that feeds off of mortal fear. Humans are its natural prey: this is the way of the age. The quori ancestors of the kalashtar felt that the age itself was an abomination and sought to change it. But while a typical tsucora feeds off the terror of others, and does enjoy toying with mortals - it is doing what comes naturally. And as Gurv has said, the Dreaming Dark is simply fighting to survive: it is the kalashtar who are trying to destroy their way of life. It's just that the quori are willing to sacrfice as many mortals as they have to in order to preserve their own existence. They don't see humans as equals. So to us, they are deadly and evil: in their eyes, they are doing what must be done to preserve their superior civilization.
Psionycx 07-30-05, 08:55 PM	The real world parallels are both glaringly obvious and much too likely to start a political debate, so I'll avoid them. But it is worth noting that this is the essential conflict between Good and Evil. Good does not automatically have a live-and-let-live attitude. Good frequently becomes militant in the face of Evil. The adherents of the Path of Light decided that the nightmare that is currently the system in Dal Quor doesn't have to be, and so they opposed it even though their plan called for the destruction of all currently existing Quori. Now, there goal is certainly noble enough. So was the goal of the Church of the Silver Flame when they launched their crusade against lycanthropy. But there are those that would argue. Now, since the kalashtar are benevolent towards other races, and since they want to get rid of creatures like tsucora that feed on mortal fear, most people would deem the goals of the Path of Light as a good thing. This is especially true of those that remember that the Quori once tried to conquer Eberron. The Quori are not just floating around Dal Quor minding their own business after all! So, essentially, the kalashtar seek to create a future where Good triumphs over the Dreaming Dark. The Inspired seek to maintain the nightmare and conquer Eberron because, well, it is in their best interests to do so.
Hellcow 07-30-05, 11:37 PM	In general, I agree with you, Psionycx, but... This is especially true of those that remember that the Quori once tried to conquer Eberron. If you're talking about the incursion on Xen'drik during the Age of the Giants, that was the previous cycle of Dal Quor, so the quori of the present day had nothing to do with it. Furthermore, people don't really KNOW what the quori of that age were trying to do back then: the only thing that's known for certain is that it resulted in a violent conflict with the giants. The common assumption is that it was a desperate attempt by the prior quori to prevent the turning of the cycle. But it's possible that the quori attempted peaceful contact... hoping that the wizards among the giants could help them find another solution... and that the giants were the agressors, striking across the planes at the quori. The answer lies deep in Xen'drik, waiting to be found. With that said, the quori invasion is certainly the most common theory: certainly the quori arrival resulted in a devastating and lengthy conflict. But since both the civilizations involved in the conflict have been destroyed for over 30,000 years (or 300,000 years, if you're quori), and the records of giants are hidden in the depths of Xen'drik; nothing can be known for certain; even the Dreaming Dark is eager to find out the truth of the last cycle.