Darguun: Land of science? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Darguun: Land of science? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheGoblinArchmage
07-02-04, 05:59 AM The goblin races don't get any dragon marks so thats one magic route they are denied. They are a strong military force so other races would be afraid to teach them wizardry for fear of it being used against them. Psionics is a possibility since it is about being one between body and mind. So a few could master this but it hardly gives the land a magic source. Many are agnostic so clericism is also not a big source of magic.

Eventually the other nations are going to recover and the presence of real magic in them means that Darguun has only a guarenteed existance of decades if that. Lhesh Haruuc is written as wanting the kingdom to last and grow strong. Since he will not be able to combat the other nations with magic he is going to need to come up with something that gives him and edge. I would think he'd get people into other nations finding tinkerers and thinkers. People that others pay no heed to because what they are experimenting is unnecisary with the prevelant magic. But Haruuc's agents say "Hey, you're on to something. Our lord Haruuc would pay you to come to Darguun and continue your experiments."

So in the land of goblins science begins to grow. Now you might assume that this is just an elaborate story to get guns into th setting but thats something that would be viewed as too unstable to use. Blowing up your troops with misfires ain't going to endere you to the king. What then would be thing that could give the goblins the edge needed to survive?
One thing could be waterproofing. An army fitted with waterproof tents and ponchos is going to have good morale compared to the army fighting in damp gear and sleeping in leaky tents. Its little things like this that I am trying to come up with because I want to run my campaign in this area. And maybe the ingrediants needed for this waterproofing come from the Khraal Rain Forest giving the heroes a job ie protecting crews harvesting ingrediants from the rainforest.
Another could be a way to drain the Torlaac Moor. Haruuc sees that goblins keep showing up and dosn't want the kingdom to fall apart because the tribe are fighting for land. So some scientist shows him how to turn the moor to arable farmland and he needs heroes to protect these crews while they do it and to explore the ruins there for any relics to further strengthen the kingdom.

Can anyone think of other little ways that science can help Darguun become a real viable knigdom?
LoupDuNoir
07-02-04, 06:22 AM Better metallurgy techniques. They won't need any of those super material lying about the place, they've got pattern welded steel and whatnot. This will have obvious applications.

Depending on how far and how fast, some sort of crude armoured personal carrier, either pulled by specially bred beasties or even a primitive engine.

Chemical compounds. Who needs fireball when you can lob honking great balls of [insert name of element a few spaces above Lithium] at the enemy.

Fertiliser. More bounteous crops to feed the troops.

However, I find it odd that you think that Darguun could not have wizardry. Why do they need someone to teach them? They had a huge empire on a highly magical world before, I strongly doubt they have forgotten everything.

Combine that with the fact that the Hogwarts (;)) at Sharn is accepting goblinoid students and a non-magical Darguun is actually highly unlikely.

So, combining magic and tech, you could get some sort of fire rifle, which launches a chemically enhanced version of burning hands at the enemy. Or little acid guns, that shoot of the acid cantrip.
Steven Snyder
07-02-04, 09:55 AM What makes you think the denizens of Darguun don't have their own contingent of Magewrights and Artificers running around?

The goblinoids held a large empire at one point, they didn't need dragonmarks to hold that together.
Hellcow
07-02-04, 11:17 AM Just as a quick aside, while the Empire of Dhakaan was not as mystically advanced as the Five Kingdoms, it was noted for metallurgical skills, architectural engineering, armor and weaponsmithing, and other physical sciences. The Ghaal'dar -- Lhesh Haruuc's people -- have lost touch with most of this knowledge, but the Dhakaani clans have been preserving it; thus, while small in number, the Dhakaani goblinoids are a force to be reckoned with. (Again, I would have said that the picture of Lhesh Haruuc was actually the warlord of the Kech Shaarat, based on his armor and equipment).
TheGoblinArchmage
07-02-04, 03:41 PM Great ideas LoupDoNoir. I was thinking of fertilizer after I posted. The goblins are going to need to get as much food from as few farmers as possible since it dosn't seem like there would be many farmers in the mercenary based goblin society. Most goblins would probly say farming is beneath them they are a warrior. But Haruuc likely realizes that if his nation were cut off from imports he'd need to be able to feed his people.

Hellcow tells us that the Dhakaani tribes already have advances in science, which seems to me to support a goblin nation supported by science not magic.
The Ghaal'dar tribes are the real force that drives Darguun. If anything they are the ones rebuilding the Dhakaan empire, even if not in name but in the spirit of a strong goblin nation.
As this happens some in the Dhakaani are going to se that while their leaders talk about retoring the empire, Haruuc is doing it. So I can see the younger goblins in the Dhakaani tribes sneaking away to the court of Haruuc and sharing these lost tecnologies.

About there being goblins training as wizards in Sharn. I don't think that they could create a real wizard tradition. By the time they strong enough to teach others of their kind back in Darguun that Breland will have recovered enough to try and take out the goblin nation before it gets too strong. So at most maybe there will be 100 or so goblin wizards able to know enough to teach other goblins. This is a very small part of the population and once cut off from other races magical centers they won't be able to learn more magic leaving them very pitiful wizards. Though I suppose these wizards could venture int the Mournland to find magic tomes among the ruins. Haruuc would probly stop them after the first few die just so they don't use up their limited number of wizards.

But maybe I'm wrong and the other nations will welcome Darguun into the world with open arms and this is all moot. But I doubt it.

Another thing that I think would be cool to give the goblins is cement. The Romans did wonders with cement and I think the goblins could too. One thing would be a colesium. While this hardly advances Darguun into civilization it would allow Haruuc to control the fighting between his people. Make criminals fight in the colesium and let the people watch. The opiat of the masses just like the emporors kept Rome from tearing itself apart. That and the food being grown on the fertilized farmland means he won't have to worry about things falling apart as much. Another could be aqueducts. Bring water from the mountains to the city to provide them with fresh drinking water, water for making alchol, water for cleaning, water for putting out fires. An incredibly useful construct. Also aqueducts could bring water to the fields for irrigation. Another use for cement could be cheap housing. A goblin living in a sturdy cement house is going to be happier then a goblin living in a wood hut. It will give the goblin pride and want to protect his home and not want crimw around him. So this is another way to slow the anarchy in the capital and allow Haruuc to concentrate on other things.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheGoblinArchmage 07-02-04, 05:59 AM	The goblin races don't get any dragon marks so thats one magic route they are denied. They are a strong military force so other races would be afraid to teach them wizardry for fear of it being used against them. Psionics is a possibility since it is about being one between body and mind. So a few could master this but it hardly gives the land a magic source. Many are agnostic so clericism is also not a big source of magic. Eventually the other nations are going to recover and the presence of real magic in them means that Darguun has only a guarenteed existance of decades if that. Lhesh Haruuc is written as wanting the kingdom to last and grow strong. Since he will not be able to combat the other nations with magic he is going to need to come up with something that gives him and edge. I would think he'd get people into other nations finding tinkerers and thinkers. People that others pay no heed to because what they are experimenting is unnecisary with the prevelant magic. But Haruuc's agents say "Hey, you're on to something. Our lord Haruuc would pay you to come to Darguun and continue your experiments." So in the land of goblins science begins to grow. Now you might assume that this is just an elaborate story to get guns into th setting but thats something that would be viewed as too unstable to use. Blowing up your troops with misfires ain't going to endere you to the king. What then would be thing that could give the goblins the edge needed to survive? One thing could be waterproofing. An army fitted with waterproof tents and ponchos is going to have good morale compared to the army fighting in damp gear and sleeping in leaky tents. Its little things like this that I am trying to come up with because I want to run my campaign in this area. And maybe the ingrediants needed for this waterproofing come from the Khraal Rain Forest giving the heroes a job ie protecting crews harvesting ingrediants from the rainforest. Another could be a way to drain the Torlaac Moor. Haruuc sees that goblins keep showing up and dosn't want the kingdom to fall apart because the tribe are fighting for land. So some scientist shows him how to turn the moor to arable farmland and he needs heroes to protect these crews while they do it and to explore the ruins there for any relics to further strengthen the kingdom. Can anyone think of other little ways that science can help Darguun become a real viable knigdom?
LoupDuNoir 07-02-04, 06:22 AM	Better metallurgy techniques. They won't need any of those super material lying about the place, they've got pattern welded steel and whatnot. This will have obvious applications. Depending on how far and how fast, some sort of crude armoured personal carrier, either pulled by specially bred beasties or even a primitive engine. Chemical compounds. Who needs fireball when you can lob honking great balls of [insert name of element a few spaces above Lithium] at the enemy. Fertiliser. More bounteous crops to feed the troops. However, I find it odd that you think that Darguun could not have wizardry. Why do they need someone to teach them? They had a huge empire on a highly magical world before, I strongly doubt they have forgotten everything. Combine that with the fact that the Hogwarts (;)) at Sharn is accepting goblinoid students and a non-magical Darguun is actually highly unlikely. So, combining magic and tech, you could get some sort of fire rifle, which launches a chemically enhanced version of burning hands at the enemy. Or little acid guns, that shoot of the acid cantrip.
Steven Snyder 07-02-04, 09:55 AM	What makes you think the denizens of Darguun don't have their own contingent of Magewrights and Artificers running around? The goblinoids held a large empire at one point, they didn't need dragonmarks to hold that together.
Hellcow 07-02-04, 11:17 AM	Just as a quick aside, while the Empire of Dhakaan was not as mystically advanced as the Five Kingdoms, it was noted for metallurgical skills, architectural engineering, armor and weaponsmithing, and other physical sciences. The Ghaal'dar -- Lhesh Haruuc's people -- have lost touch with most of this knowledge, but the Dhakaani clans have been preserving it; thus, while small in number, the Dhakaani goblinoids are a force to be reckoned with. (Again, I would have said that the picture of Lhesh Haruuc was actually the warlord of the Kech Shaarat, based on his armor and equipment).
TheGoblinArchmage 07-02-04, 03:41 PM	Great ideas LoupDoNoir. I was thinking of fertilizer after I posted. The goblins are going to need to get as much food from as few farmers as possible since it dosn't seem like there would be many farmers in the mercenary based goblin society. Most goblins would probly say farming is beneath them they are a warrior. But Haruuc likely realizes that if his nation were cut off from imports he'd need to be able to feed his people. Hellcow tells us that the Dhakaani tribes already have advances in science, which seems to me to support a goblin nation supported by science not magic. The Ghaal'dar tribes are the real force that drives Darguun. If anything they are the ones rebuilding the Dhakaan empire, even if not in name but in the spirit of a strong goblin nation. As this happens some in the Dhakaani are going to se that while their leaders talk about retoring the empire, Haruuc is doing it. So I can see the younger goblins in the Dhakaani tribes sneaking away to the court of Haruuc and sharing these lost tecnologies. About there being goblins training as wizards in Sharn. I don't think that they could create a real wizard tradition. By the time they strong enough to teach others of their kind back in Darguun that Breland will have recovered enough to try and take out the goblin nation before it gets too strong. So at most maybe there will be 100 or so goblin wizards able to know enough to teach other goblins. This is a very small part of the population and once cut off from other races magical centers they won't be able to learn more magic leaving them very pitiful wizards. Though I suppose these wizards could venture int the Mournland to find magic tomes among the ruins. Haruuc would probly stop them after the first few die just so they don't use up their limited number of wizards. But maybe I'm wrong and the other nations will welcome Darguun into the world with open arms and this is all moot. But I doubt it. Another thing that I think would be cool to give the goblins is cement. The Romans did wonders with cement and I think the goblins could too. One thing would be a colesium. While this hardly advances Darguun into civilization it would allow Haruuc to control the fighting between his people. Make criminals fight in the colesium and let the people watch. The opiat of the masses just like the emporors kept Rome from tearing itself apart. That and the food being grown on the fertilized farmland means he won't have to worry about things falling apart as much. Another could be aqueducts. Bring water from the mountains to the city to provide them with fresh drinking water, water for making alchol, water for cleaning, water for putting out fires. An incredibly useful construct. Also aqueducts could bring water to the fields for irrigation. Another use for cement could be cheap housing. A goblin living in a sturdy cement house is going to be happier then a goblin living in a wood hut. It will give the goblin pride and want to protect his home and not want crimw around him. So this is another way to slow the anarchy in the capital and allow Haruuc to concentrate on other things.