Darn players... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Darn players... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mulliganster
06-17-06, 07:10 PM Currently I'm running a game in which the players had discovered and ancient schema for a reward of 1000. However, greedy players with monk belts in mind never gave it back, and contacted Baron Merrix D'Cannith in order to sell it for a much higher price. They don't know what it does, and I told them that it's not worth as much as they make it out to be worth. My players are stubborn and think everything they own is immediately priceless.

At a higher level I might let it fly, but this is meerly an issue of balance. They're low level, and a quick and easy 10K gold is a bit much for their level. They actually even want more.

Any ideas on handling this? One player has a Mark of Making, (he hasn't shown his face to Merrix, instead he meerly planned and hid in his hotel room like a baby) so I probably will threaten excoriation from Cannith, which could be prevented with handing Merrix the schema without any resistance. I've sent some warforged who are fanatical Lord Of Blade followers, and I've thrown some generic fighters after them, trying not to go to overboard forcefully taking it.

Truely I want to reward them, considering they masterminded a pretty decent plan for a "Schema-money" transfer, and keep there cool when confronted with guards saying they were being "roudy" (aka Merrix paying guards to arrest them, unfortunately failing). They also keep the schema in a safty deposit box, which requires two keys. So to make it difficult, the person with the keys bought a bunch of keys to no where. They're smart, but I just don't want to over power the game.
Hellcow
06-17-06, 08:09 PM Basically, this is an issue of arrogance in a world where it's not yet justified. Working with Elaydren gives the starting adventurers a chance to make a valuable ally. Betraying an employer instead makes a powerful enemy. Even if Merrix choses to buy it, he now knows that these are untrustworthy people he wouldn't employ on his own, because they'll likely double-cross him as well. So simply point out to them... at this stage of their career, do they really want to be making powerful enemies? If they're asking 10K, well, how much would it cost an interested party to hire Tarkanan or Thuranni to take it from them? And when it comes down to "What do we care about enemies? What can these people do?" Well, if Merrix calls in favors with Orien and Lyrandar, he might be able to get them blacklisted from any form of swift transportation. They might be turned away by Kundarak and Sivis. No healing at Jorasco. All of these things are extreme; Merrix would need to be pretty ticked of to expend this sort of influence. But he could do it. On the other hand, if they have a powerful patron in a dragonmarked house, the gold they receive is only part of the reward; these other doors open up instead of closing. Under the right circumstances, the favor of a house is far more valuable than one more +1 bonus to your sword.

Likewise, whatever the value of the schema to a collector, it has NO innate value on the open market or to the PCs. If Merrix refuses to buy it, they have... a paperweight. Merrix is smart enough to realize this. If he says "No, I don't think so. 1,000 or nothing"... what are they going to do with it? What if he says "500 or nothing"? They can't just go down to Dura and sell it for that much. If they hold onto it, they have to worry about keeping it safe. It's a hot potato, and meanwhile, the betrayed Elaydren will be growing ever more angry, and the Lord of Blades may send a more powerful force of his own.

The PCs may think they are in a position of power, but especially with an item as specialized as a schema - something of interest only to a few highly skilled people - they aren't in as good a position as they think. They'd be wiser to honor their contract and make an ally than to betray their patron... which will give them a bad reputation even in the eyes of the eventual purchaser.
Mulliganster
06-17-06, 08:48 PM Well they "threatened" already to sell to the other leaders of the house in an effort to "tip the balance of power." You're totally correct in saying that they feel that they're in a position of power, when in reality they aren't.

Oh and by the way they gave the initial 100 gp back to Elaydren, and said they were incapable of doing the quest. Elaydren assumed that they just failled. However, when they called Merrix, and tried to sell it to them twice, she hired a few people to break down the door of their room and take whats rightfully hers. The attack failed, and the party member who was at the bar (in game has a drinking problem) made a critical roll and noticed that 4 half orcs put a pile of money on the table to pay off the bartender to give them the room number. The players defeated the half orcs, and the drinker realized what just happened. The bar was closing that instant, so they had just enough freedom to smack around the bartender. The players later travelled back to their home town and were confronted by Elaydren, who entered their lightning rail cart and said "We'll be in touch, don't expect to much for the Schema, it's not an artifact as you keep insisting, it's meerly old." She then left the room, and was followed by a the changling in the party who went to confront her back, but immediately realized she was surrounded by bodyguards. We ended the session on that note.

From reading what I have, it seems Merrix is the only Cannith house man with enough intrest in schemas for the party to actually have a buyer. The party actually threatened, to Merrix's face to hand the schema to the lord of blades. Good luck finding him, Merrix cheekily replied, but actually was quite worried that a schema, falling into the lord of blades hands, could help the lord of blade's cause and have the lord of blades make an army of warforged faster. I'm already way planned ahead for this special case, however, considering a party of low level characters stumbling into the mournlands looking for the lord of blades will definitly result in total tragedy.

Thats why Excoriation seems like a good idea. The player who is the one with the mark of making has more often than not played a corrupt diplomat in other games. Excoriation would ban him from the house, and among the things you already suggested, have him no longer be able to call in favors or contacts or really anything.

Also if I pose an ethical dillema, such as, give me the schema or the lord of blades will destroy "town X," it will diffuse the situation a little bit and possibly give the party the ability to redeem themselves.

phew this is sucha mess.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mulliganster 06-17-06, 07:10 PM	Currently I'm running a game in which the players had discovered and ancient schema for a reward of 1000. However, greedy players with monk belts in mind never gave it back, and contacted Baron Merrix D'Cannith in order to sell it for a much higher price. They don't know what it does, and I told them that it's not worth as much as they make it out to be worth. My players are stubborn and think everything they own is immediately priceless. At a higher level I might let it fly, but this is meerly an issue of balance. They're low level, and a quick and easy 10K gold is a bit much for their level. They actually even want more. Any ideas on handling this? One player has a Mark of Making, (he hasn't shown his face to Merrix, instead he meerly planned and hid in his hotel room like a baby) so I probably will threaten excoriation from Cannith, which could be prevented with handing Merrix the schema without any resistance. I've sent some warforged who are fanatical Lord Of Blade followers, and I've thrown some generic fighters after them, trying not to go to overboard forcefully taking it. Truely I want to reward them, considering they masterminded a pretty decent plan for a "Schema-money" transfer, and keep there cool when confronted with guards saying they were being "roudy" (aka Merrix paying guards to arrest them, unfortunately failing). They also keep the schema in a safty deposit box, which requires two keys. So to make it difficult, the person with the keys bought a bunch of keys to no where. They're smart, but I just don't want to over power the game.
Hellcow 06-17-06, 08:09 PM	Basically, this is an issue of arrogance in a world where it's not yet justified. Working with Elaydren gives the starting adventurers a chance to make a valuable ally. Betraying an employer instead makes a powerful enemy. Even if Merrix choses to buy it, he now knows that these are untrustworthy people he wouldn't employ on his own, because they'll likely double-cross him as well. So simply point out to them... at this stage of their career, do they really want to be making powerful enemies? If they're asking 10K, well, how much would it cost an interested party to hire Tarkanan or Thuranni to take it from them? And when it comes down to "What do we care about enemies? What can these people do?" Well, if Merrix calls in favors with Orien and Lyrandar, he might be able to get them blacklisted from any form of swift transportation. They might be turned away by Kundarak and Sivis. No healing at Jorasco. All of these things are extreme; Merrix would need to be pretty ticked of to expend this sort of influence. But he could do it. On the other hand, if they have a powerful patron in a dragonmarked house, the gold they receive is only part of the reward; these other doors open up instead of closing. Under the right circumstances, the favor of a house is far more valuable than one more +1 bonus to your sword. Likewise, whatever the value of the schema to a collector, it has NO innate value on the open market or to the PCs. If Merrix refuses to buy it, they have... a paperweight. Merrix is smart enough to realize this. If he says "No, I don't think so. 1,000 or nothing"... what are they going to do with it? What if he says "500 or nothing"? They can't just go down to Dura and sell it for that much. If they hold onto it, they have to worry about keeping it safe. It's a hot potato, and meanwhile, the betrayed Elaydren will be growing ever more angry, and the Lord of Blades may send a more powerful force of his own. The PCs may think they are in a position of power, but especially with an item as specialized as a schema - something of interest only to a few highly skilled people - they aren't in as good a position as they think. They'd be wiser to honor their contract and make an ally than to betray their patron... which will give them a bad reputation even in the eyes of the eventual purchaser.
Mulliganster 06-17-06, 08:48 PM	Well they "threatened" already to sell to the other leaders of the house in an effort to "tip the balance of power." You're totally correct in saying that they feel that they're in a position of power, when in reality they aren't. Oh and by the way they gave the initial 100 gp back to Elaydren, and said they were incapable of doing the quest. Elaydren assumed that they just failled. However, when they called Merrix, and tried to sell it to them twice, she hired a few people to break down the door of their room and take whats rightfully hers. The attack failed, and the party member who was at the bar (in game has a drinking problem) made a critical roll and noticed that 4 half orcs put a pile of money on the table to pay off the bartender to give them the room number. The players defeated the half orcs, and the drinker realized what just happened. The bar was closing that instant, so they had just enough freedom to smack around the bartender. The players later travelled back to their home town and were confronted by Elaydren, who entered their lightning rail cart and said "We'll be in touch, don't expect to much for the Schema, it's not an artifact as you keep insisting, it's meerly old." She then left the room, and was followed by a the changling in the party who went to confront her back, but immediately realized she was surrounded by bodyguards. We ended the session on that note. From reading what I have, it seems Merrix is the only Cannith house man with enough intrest in schemas for the party to actually have a buyer. The party actually threatened, to Merrix's face to hand the schema to the lord of blades. Good luck finding him, Merrix cheekily replied, but actually was quite worried that a schema, falling into the lord of blades hands, could help the lord of blade's cause and have the lord of blades make an army of warforged faster. I'm already way planned ahead for this special case, however, considering a party of low level characters stumbling into the mournlands looking for the lord of blades will definitly result in total tragedy. Thats why Excoriation seems like a good idea. The player who is the one with the mark of making has more often than not played a corrupt diplomat in other games. Excoriation would ban him from the house, and among the things you already suggested, have him no longer be able to call in favors or contacts or really anything. Also if I pose an ethical dillema, such as, give me the schema or the lord of blades will destroy "town X," it will diffuse the situation a little bit and possibly give the party the ability to redeem themselves. phew this is sucha mess.