DDO Heads up [Archive] - Wizards Community

DDO Heads up [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Streamweaver
01-19-05, 10:54 AM Some of you may know there is a Massively Multiplayer Online (MMO) game being developed using DnD as it's rules set and Eberron as it's setting. For the most part the production team has been low key, but resecently announced they will be stepping up their public profile with the game. Beta will start sometime this year and more information will be coming out.

The game has some interesting elements and the development team seems like an honest and dedicated set of folks so I thought a bit of notice for them here could be in order.

Head over to www.ddo.com for the information they have on the game so far.
Annaylli
01-19-05, 11:44 AM I would hope beta begins this year.

They were aiming for Q3 05 for release.
polt
01-19-05, 12:26 PM Well, to bad the games looks like it's gonna suck.

They keep it low populated, so you only have like 500-1000 people pr. server, and there will be no pvp.

It's turbine who are developing it, and they made AC2, which wasn't a very good game.
Radazim
01-19-05, 01:02 PM Well, to bad the games looks like it's gonna suck.

And you base this opinion on what? It looks to me like the game is going to be innovative and fun.

They keep it low populated, so you only have like 500-1000 people pr. server, and there will be no pvp.

The target number is 1000, and all that means is that they'll open new servers when most hit 1000 active players during peak times. It's not a hard limit, and the reason is to build a stronger sense of community between players and the feeling that your character makes a difference.

As for PvP, there's no PvP in PnP D&D either. (Other than the ill-fated "evil" campaigns that inevitably end poorly, or the griefing troublemaker players who are rarely invited back.) Why should there be PvP in D&DO? The game isn't balanced for PvP, it's balanced for cooperation. Trying to make a D&D-based game with balanced PvP is an exercise in futility.

It's turbine who are developing it, and they made AC2, which wasn't a very good game.

They also developed AC1, which to this day remains an excellent game. AC2 was ruined mostly by Microsoft who forced an unrealistic schedule on Turbine which then forced too many design compromises. D&DO is being self-funded by Turbine, but they're working closely with WotC on the design to make sure it's stays true to the spirit and letter of D&D.
Joni-san
01-19-05, 01:09 PM According to one of the devs the Beta will begin "soon" (i.e. three months :P) and stuff about the Beta can be found in the newest article.

They decided to go with smaller servers because of Bandwith issues and to create a strong community.
PvP was one of the things they considered to be counter-intuitive to the type of community they want to build, that and DDO is based on groups who cooperate, that's the reason they will not include it at launch.

And basing on what I read a lot of the things that made AC2 bad was something MS decided on.

Edit: Seems like Radazim was faster than me :P
polt
01-19-05, 01:32 PM Radazism, why DDO should have PvP? Well, it's fun, and it keeps a MMORPG alive.
Brastan
01-19-05, 01:34 PM No Mac version me no like. Also there missing core classes and races. I would want them to have all core and ECS material ready to go before they released it. It would also give them additional time to fix bugs and get there infrastructure ready. I don't want to see the sever down time Blizzard is having with some of their more high volume servers for WoW. I agree with no PvP its bad policy in the general area. A 1st level Fighter can kill all other character types except maybe a Paladin or Barbadian. Organized duels or competitions of skill would be fun but not necessarily PvP. Think the Gauntlet in Dark Alliance(PS2 Game). Best time in a kill fest for martial types and more suitable game types for other class. Non-lethal Capture the Flag games. Every one takes a -4 to hint and also carry a special magic item reduces AC by 4 thus canceling the penalty. There are rules in CA for Non-lethal dueling, or that magic time provides the non-lethal substation for feat for free when active. (I may have to use these in PnP DnD)

AC1? AC2? I know your taking about a different game than I associate with those acronyms, but what does Armored Core have to do with DnD? ;)
polt
01-19-05, 01:41 PM Asherons Call ;)
Radazim
01-19-05, 01:43 PM Radazism, why DDO should have PvP? Well, it's fun, and it keeps a MMORPG alive.

We're not talking about any old MMORPG. We're talking about one whose explicit goal is to bring the spirit of PnP D&D to the MMO space. PnP D&D has no PvP; neither should D&DO.

As for it being fun, it's only fun when it's properly balanced. Since the D&D classes are not in any way shape or form balanced for PvP, there is no way to make a D&D-based PvP system "balanced" - without deviating so far from D&D that you might as well not call it D&D.

As for keeping a MMORPG alive, I think that's a matter of personal opinion rather than a statement of fact.
Radazim
01-19-05, 01:50 PM No Mac version me no like.

Well, there apparently isn't a lot of "bang for the buck" in terms of porting the client to Mac. Unfortunate, I suppose, for the Mac die-hards, but a dearth of good games isn't exactly new for Mac users, is it? ;)

Also there missing core classes and races. I would want them to have all core and ECS material ready to go before they released it.

I don't want perfect to be the enemy of good enough. I wouldn't care if all you could play was Lidda, Jozan, Tordek, or Mialee at launch, as long as they did it right. :) They've left out Druid and Monk for launch (both of which have many specialized class features) because they didn't think they could do them "right". I'd rather have the game without those two classes than hold it up for six months just to include them.

It would also give them additional time to fix bugs and get there infrastructure ready. I don't want to see the sever down time Blizzard is having with some of their more high volume servers for WoW.

Blizzard had never shipped a MMO title. D&DO and MEO will be Turbine's 3rd generation of MMO engine. I'm not particularly worried about post-launch stability. Beta may be flaky but that's what beta's all about.

I agree with no PvP its bad policy in the general area. A 1st level Fighter can kill all other character types except maybe a Paladin or Barbadian. Organized duels or competitions of skill would be fun but not necessarily PvP. Think the Gauntlet in Dark Alliance(PS2 Game). Best time in a kill fest for martial types and more suitable game types for other class. Non-lethal Capture the Flag games. Every one takes a -4 to hint and also carry a special magic item reduces AC by 4 thus canceling the penalty. There are rules in CA for Non-lethal dueling, or that magic time provides the non-lethal substation for feat for free when active. (I may have to use these in PnP DnD)

I fall back on my "if you can't be the best at it, don't bother" mantra. D&D isn't designed for PvP, so there's no way that including PvP into D&DO can be done in a "best-in-class" manner. Don't bother.

AC1? AC2? I know your taking about a different game than I associate with those acronyms, but what does Armored Core have to do with DnD? ;)

It's Armor Class, silly. ;)
Golbez57
01-19-05, 01:52 PM Final Fantasy XI Online was my first MMORPG experience, and I had a fantastic time. Unlike most of the players I met there, I made it a true role-playing experience, and was remembered for it and really did feel a part of a community.

There were some significant downsides to that game (relatively low returns on great investments of time, an XP system that dramatically limited with whom you could form a workable party, an economy badly damaged by real-money-trading and an intense focus on a volatile auction house system) and, of course, there will be mechanical and aesthetic things about DDO that will bother players.

What really has me excited is the sort of person this game will hopefully draw. EverQuest II, Worlds of Warcraft, FF XI Online, and others seem to be populated more by VIDEO-gamers than TABLETOP ROLEPLAY-gamers. If the in-game company is good and the developers do a fine job of building an immersive world, I'll most definitely have to check DDO out.

As an aside, I'd also enjoy learning more about Eberron through the game. If my video-gaming can help me craft more enjoyable and vibrant role-playing games set in the same world...

*Martha Stewart voice*

It's a good thing.
polt
01-19-05, 01:59 PM Okey, firstly: No, the classes aint balanced in D&D for PvP, that however isn't the same is there is no PvP.

I DM'ed groups where some of the players fought. The essence of D&D is that the players has a big free world they can do everything they want, if that is to fighter other players, that's their choice.

Secondly, if Turbines explicit goal is to bring the spirit of PnP D&D to the MMO space, they will fail.
The goal should always be to make a good game, if they try to implent D&D rules more than they try to make a good game, they gonna end up with a game that aint fun. SOme things in D&D probably won't work in MMORPG, and Turbine has to change things to make it work.
Joni-san
01-19-05, 02:14 PM *Snip snip* If the in-game company is good and the developers do a fine job of building an immersive world, I'll most definitely have to check DDO out.

If you mean immersive in the meaning "Touch (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/extras/ds.php) Me!" (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=116) I'd say it's good enough.
If you mean immersive in the meaning "I run around for hours doing nothing hoping to find something interesting" then I should tell you that they use the Indiana Jones school of travelling (Instansing)

As an aside, I'd also enjoy learning more about Eberron through the game. If my video-gaming can help me craft more enjoyable and vibrant role-playing games set in the same world...

*Martha Stewart voice*

It's a good thing.

Well it's set in Xen'Drik so we're going to se Stormreach and some of Xen'Drik :)
Golbez57
01-19-05, 02:22 PM polt, take some time to visit the official DDO website before being so down on it. EVERYONE is entitled to his or her own opinion, but when it's an uninformed opinion, NOBODY is the better for hearing it.

I'm not sure if linking it would be a violation of the Terms of Service here, since it's technically a commercial site, but there is a humorous and informative Article from September 23rd that deals with the distinct differences between a rule set for a tabletop game and an interface for an massively multiplayer online game.

"You trip as you charge. You’re, um, in the pot.”
"CAULDRON!”
"Yeah.”
"I hate you.”

:rofl:

As for immersive, I'm hoping for a game world that feels alive and is more interesting than the home office in which I might be playing it, somewhere I can transport my mind for awhile and feel at home. Y'know... like those D & D campaigns that you remember and still reminisce about to this day!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Streamweaver 01-19-05, 10:54 AM	Some of you may know there is a Massively Multiplayer Online (MMO) game being developed using DnD as it's rules set and Eberron as it's setting. For the most part the production team has been low key, but resecently announced they will be stepping up their public profile with the game. Beta will start sometime this year and more information will be coming out. The game has some interesting elements and the development team seems like an honest and dedicated set of folks so I thought a bit of notice for them here could be in order. Head over to www.ddo.com for the information they have on the game so far.
Annaylli 01-19-05, 11:44 AM	I would hope beta begins this year. They were aiming for Q3 05 for release.
polt 01-19-05, 12:26 PM	Well, to bad the games looks like it's gonna suck. They keep it low populated, so you only have like 500-1000 people pr. server, and there will be no pvp. It's turbine who are developing it, and they made AC2, which wasn't a very good game.
Radazim 01-19-05, 01:02 PM	Well, to bad the games looks like it's gonna suck. And you base this opinion on what? It looks to me like the game is going to be innovative and fun. They keep it low populated, so you only have like 500-1000 people pr. server, and there will be no pvp. The target number is 1000, and all that means is that they'll open new servers when most hit 1000 active players during peak times. It's not a hard limit, and the reason is to build a stronger sense of community between players and the feeling that your character makes a difference. As for PvP, there's no PvP in PnP D&D either. (Other than the ill-fated "evil" campaigns that inevitably end poorly, or the griefing troublemaker players who are rarely invited back.) Why should there be PvP in D&DO? The game isn't balanced for PvP, it's balanced for cooperation. Trying to make a D&D-based game with balanced PvP is an exercise in futility. It's turbine who are developing it, and they made AC2, which wasn't a very good game. They also developed AC1, which to this day remains an excellent game. AC2 was ruined mostly by Microsoft who forced an unrealistic schedule on Turbine which then forced too many design compromises. D&DO is being self-funded by Turbine, but they're working closely with WotC on the design to make sure it's stays true to the spirit and letter of D&D.
Joni-san 01-19-05, 01:09 PM	According to one of the devs the Beta will begin "soon" (i.e. three months :P) and stuff about the Beta can be found in the newest article. They decided to go with smaller servers because of Bandwith issues and to create a strong community. PvP was one of the things they considered to be counter-intuitive to the type of community they want to build, that and DDO is based on groups who cooperate, that's the reason they will not include it at launch. And basing on what I read a lot of the things that made AC2 bad was something MS decided on. Edit: Seems like Radazim was faster than me :P
polt 01-19-05, 01:32 PM	Radazism, why DDO should have PvP? Well, it's fun, and it keeps a MMORPG alive.
Brastan 01-19-05, 01:34 PM	No Mac version me no like. Also there missing core classes and races. I would want them to have all core and ECS material ready to go before they released it. It would also give them additional time to fix bugs and get there infrastructure ready. I don't want to see the sever down time Blizzard is having with some of their more high volume servers for WoW. I agree with no PvP its bad policy in the general area. A 1st level Fighter can kill all other character types except maybe a Paladin or Barbadian. Organized duels or competitions of skill would be fun but not necessarily PvP. Think the Gauntlet in Dark Alliance(PS2 Game). Best time in a kill fest for martial types and more suitable game types for other class. Non-lethal Capture the Flag games. Every one takes a -4 to hint and also carry a special magic item reduces AC by 4 thus canceling the penalty. There are rules in CA for Non-lethal dueling, or that magic time provides the non-lethal substation for feat for free when active. (I may have to use these in PnP DnD) AC1? AC2? I know your taking about a different game than I associate with those acronyms, but what does Armored Core have to do with DnD? ;)
polt 01-19-05, 01:41 PM	Asherons Call ;)
Radazim 01-19-05, 01:43 PM	Radazism, why DDO should have PvP? Well, it's fun, and it keeps a MMORPG alive. We're not talking about any old MMORPG. We're talking about one whose explicit goal is to bring the spirit of PnP D&D to the MMO space. PnP D&D has no PvP; neither should D&DO. As for it being fun, it's only fun when it's properly balanced. Since the D&D classes are not in any way shape or form balanced for PvP, there is no way to make a D&D-based PvP system "balanced" - without deviating so far from D&D that you might as well not call it D&D. As for keeping a MMORPG alive, I think that's a matter of personal opinion rather than a statement of fact.
Radazim 01-19-05, 01:50 PM	No Mac version me no like. Well, there apparently isn't a lot of "bang for the buck" in terms of porting the client to Mac. Unfortunate, I suppose, for the Mac die-hards, but a dearth of good games isn't exactly new for Mac users, is it? ;) Also there missing core classes and races. I would want them to have all core and ECS material ready to go before they released it. I don't want perfect to be the enemy of good enough. I wouldn't care if all you could play was Lidda, Jozan, Tordek, or Mialee at launch, as long as they did it right. :) They've left out Druid and Monk for launch (both of which have many specialized class features) because they didn't think they could do them "right". I'd rather have the game without those two classes than hold it up for six months just to include them. It would also give them additional time to fix bugs and get there infrastructure ready. I don't want to see the sever down time Blizzard is having with some of their more high volume servers for WoW. Blizzard had never shipped a MMO title. D&DO and MEO will be Turbine's 3rd generation of MMO engine. I'm not particularly worried about post-launch stability. Beta may be flaky but that's what beta's all about. I agree with no PvP its bad policy in the general area. A 1st level Fighter can kill all other character types except maybe a Paladin or Barbadian. Organized duels or competitions of skill would be fun but not necessarily PvP. Think the Gauntlet in Dark Alliance(PS2 Game). Best time in a kill fest for martial types and more suitable game types for other class. Non-lethal Capture the Flag games. Every one takes a -4 to hint and also carry a special magic item reduces AC by 4 thus canceling the penalty. There are rules in CA for Non-lethal dueling, or that magic time provides the non-lethal substation for feat for free when active. (I may have to use these in PnP DnD) I fall back on my "if you can't be the best at it, don't bother" mantra. D&D isn't designed for PvP, so there's no way that including PvP into D&DO can be done in a "best-in-class" manner. Don't bother. AC1? AC2? I know your taking about a different game than I associate with those acronyms, but what does Armored Core have to do with DnD? ;) It's Armor Class, silly. ;)
Golbez57 01-19-05, 01:52 PM	Final Fantasy XI Online was my first MMORPG experience, and I had a fantastic time. Unlike most of the players I met there, I made it a true role-playing experience, and was remembered for it and really did feel a part of a community. There were some significant downsides to that game (relatively low returns on great investments of time, an XP system that dramatically limited with whom you could form a workable party, an economy badly damaged by real-money-trading and an intense focus on a volatile auction house system) and, of course, there will be mechanical and aesthetic things about DDO that will bother players. What really has me excited is the sort of person this game will hopefully draw. EverQuest II, Worlds of Warcraft, FF XI Online, and others seem to be populated more by VIDEO-gamers than TABLETOP ROLEPLAY-gamers. If the in-game company is good and the developers do a fine job of building an immersive world, I'll most definitely have to check DDO out. As an aside, I'd also enjoy learning more about Eberron through the game. If my video-gaming can help me craft more enjoyable and vibrant role-playing games set in the same world... Martha Stewart voice It's a good thing.
polt 01-19-05, 01:59 PM	Okey, firstly: No, the classes aint balanced in D&D for PvP, that however isn't the same is there is no PvP. I DM'ed groups where some of the players fought. The essence of D&D is that the players has a big free world they can do everything they want, if that is to fighter other players, that's their choice. Secondly, if Turbines explicit goal is to bring the spirit of PnP D&D to the MMO space, they will fail. The goal should always be to make a good game, if they try to implent D&D rules more than they try to make a good game, they gonna end up with a game that aint fun. SOme things in D&D probably won't work in MMORPG, and Turbine has to change things to make it work.
Joni-san 01-19-05, 02:14 PM	Snip snip If the in-game company is good and the developers do a fine job of building an immersive world, I'll most definitely have to check DDO out. If you mean immersive in the meaning "Touch (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/extras/ds.php) Me!" (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=116) I'd say it's good enough. If you mean immersive in the meaning "I run around for hours doing nothing hoping to find something interesting" then I should tell you that they use the Indiana Jones school of travelling (Instansing) As an aside, I'd also enjoy learning more about Eberron through the game. If my video-gaming can help me craft more enjoyable and vibrant role-playing games set in the same world... Martha Stewart voice It's a good thing. Well it's set in Xen'Drik so we're going to se Stormreach and some of Xen'Drik :)
Golbez57 01-19-05, 02:22 PM	polt, take some time to visit the official DDO website before being so down on it. EVERYONE is entitled to his or her own opinion, but when it's an uninformed opinion, NOBODY is the better for hearing it. I'm not sure if linking it would be a violation of the Terms of Service here, since it's technically a commercial site, but there is a humorous and informative Article from September 23rd that deals with the distinct differences between a rule set for a tabletop game and an interface for an massively multiplayer online game. "You trip as you charge. You’re, um, in the pot.” "CAULDRON!” "Yeah.” "I hate you.” :rofl: As for immersive, I'm hoping for a game world that feels alive and is more interesting than the home office in which I might be playing it, somewhere I can transport my mind for awhile and feel at home. Y'know... like those D & D campaigns that you remember and still reminisce about to this day!