Dead Languages in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dead Languages in Eberron [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
airwalkrr
01-19-07, 04:04 PM Curse WotC for not having a Search feature. Anyway...

First a little background before my question: We are starting the Savage Tide AP this weekend set in Eberron. My character has a background as the apprentice of a late wizard who was a member of the Seekers organization. My character did not discover the existence of the Seekers until after his master's death, when he decided to take up adventuring and hunt down this secretive organization. He longs to find the group and join them since what he has read about them in his master's journal is fascinating indeed.

Part of my character's background involves his master teaching him a bunch of dead languages that he saw little use for at the time. (Unknown to him, dead languages are considered a status symbol in the Seekers.) However, after looking through the ECS, I don't see any languages that would really qualify as dead. I am mildy familiar with Eberron, but my Eb-fu is not such that I would recall any mention of old languages that have fallen out of use. Can anyone think of any such languages?
RaShal
01-19-07, 04:16 PM Off the top of my mind... Ancient Giant (the giant civilization has pretty much been reduced to barbarism)... draconic... and perhaps one of the monstrous/goblinoid languages. From the examples I've given, you could probably go with any of the cultures that have fallen in on themselves.

Ra'Shal
eehamburg
01-19-07, 04:43 PM Old High Dhakaani
Hellcow
01-19-07, 05:00 PM If you want TRULY dead languages:

The Riedran language uses the "Old Common" alphabet. This, presumably, refers to a language common in Sarlona that evolved into modern Riedran and the Common tongue of Khorvaire. So, Old Common is one canon dead language.

Likewise, the Gnome langauge uses the Dwarvish alphabet, despite the fact that the gnomes had a sophisticated civilization before encountering the dwarves. In my opinion, the current Gnome language is an invented language created over the last few thousand years, and that there is an "Old Zil". (Actually, I wrote something about this for Dragonmarked - because Sivis tries to preserve dead langagues - but I'm not sure it made the final cut.)

These are dead langauges by canon. However, you could certainly present others. For example, even if you say that the giants of Xen'drik spoke the modern Giant langauge, that could easily have been the "Common" of the Giants - while individual giant nations (The Sul'at League, etc) may have had their own languages. The Serens could have their own language, a blend of Common and Draconic. There could be a language for each old Sarlonan nation. It could be that each of the Five Nations had an individual language, and that "Common" is Karrnish, spread across the nations by Galifar. D&D generally reduces the number of human language in order to simplify things and to allow adventurers to communicate with the people they encounter. But if you want to add complexity, you certainly can.
rabidclipper
01-19-07, 05:04 PM What do Cuoatls speak... how about old Gnomish, it has been suggested that modern Gnome is a constructed language (like esperanto but less ridiculous). Ancient Giant, Old High Dhakaani... or if he is REALLY a badass, how about the most dead language of them all - the language of the Quori of the previous age!
goblin_pride
01-19-07, 05:56 PM This is an excellent thread topic and I can't wait to see what Darth Syntax adds to it.
rabidclipper
01-19-07, 06:22 PM Snip...

had their own languages. The Serens could have their own language, a blend of Common and Draconic. There could be

Snip...

The Seren language which combines Common and Draconic? Would that not be Argon, mighty hellcow? Isn't that still spoken?
Darth Syntax
01-19-07, 09:21 PM Having been invoked (like some malign spirit of language) I hereby offer up my (not exhaustive) list of dead languages in Eberron.

Non-Canon note: I have dispensed with the table of languages and writing systems as presented in the ECS because I don't fell that they fit with the history of the world. This is especially clear with the whole gnome writing system. Zil (in my interpretation) is written in a calligraphic script which is related to the Old High Dhakaani alphabet and shares no relation whatever to the abjad that the Mror use for writing as the contact between these two groups is a relatively recent historical occurrence.

Similarly, Aereni is writing in a logographic script which is related to some of the writing systems in Xen'Drik. Sylvan is not written in this script, as there is no in-world connection between the elves and the fey.

Now, moving along to the topic at hand.

--

Proto-Lan-Gathic: This reconstructed language is the hypothetical parent of both the Lanthic and Gathic language families and the most recent common ancestor of Galifaran and Reidran. Spoken some 6,000 years ago. Living Lanthic languages include Valdyavath (called Galifaran by many), Lhazaarite, and several small languages spoken in North-Eastern Khorvaire. Living Gathic languages include Riedran, Bricoinan (the 'official' language of the Eldeen Reaches), and many others.

Dead Lanthic languages: Middle Valdyavath (the native language of Galifar I), Dvanyish (a language of central Karrnath, died out about 300 years ago),and Lanthic (the language believed to have been spoken by Lhaazar herself).

Dead Gathic Languages: Old Aundairan (replaced by Middle Valdyavath by Galifar I), West-Brelish (same story as old Aundairan), Gathic (the ancient language of central-west Sarlona), Adoi (a sarlonan language which was forceibly suppressed by the Inspired in favor of Riedran)

Dhaarlukesh Languages: This is the language family to which OHD, The Kech Volaar language, and several other southern goblinoid languages belong.

Dead Daarlukesh languages: Old High Dhakaani (litterary, learned, official language of the Dhakaani empire at the time of the Daelkyr Wars), Kukulyaran (early Dhakaani language, and ancestor of OHD), Evanya (sometimes called north-dhakaani, contemporary of OHD).

Yimyataaq languages: Goblinoid languages of north-eastern Khorvaire. All but a few of these are extinct.

Xen-Tradash languages: The family that includes many of the giant languages , the elven languages, drow, sahuagin, and others has many notable dead languages.

Dead Xen-Tradash languages: Xen-Tradi (the language most commonly associated with the great giant civilization of Xen-Drik). Arventari (an ancient elven language whose speakers either died out or were assimilated some 7,000 years ago. Evidence of this language is mostly from texts dealing with navigation, astronomy, and trade).

Taalco-Zhilashtryo languages: The language family that includes modern Zil and most of the languages of the Talenta Plains has several dead languages of importance.

Dead T-Z languages: Archaic Zil (officially dead, but often used as a learned language in Zilargo), Nauda (known from some inscription found on clay tablets in southern Cyre, Nauda was instrumental is showing the link between the Zil and Talen languages, and is thought to have been spoken by the ancestors of modern gnomes)

--

Well thats probably enough for the moment. As you can no doubt see, I believe that there should be great language diversity in Eberron, in the past and in the present.
The White Sorcerer
01-19-07, 11:04 PM The Serens could have their own language, a blend of Common and Draconic.

According to the ECS, they do. It's called Argon.
MartM
01-20-07, 12:07 AM Likewise, the Gnome langauge uses the Dwarvish alphabet, despite the fact that the gnomes had a sophisticated civilization before encountering the dwarves. In my opinion, the current Gnome language is an invented language created over the last few thousand years, and that there is an "Old Zil". (Actually, I wrote something about this for Dragonmarked - because Sivis tries to preserve dead langagues - but I'm not sure it made the final cut.)

In the ECS there is no such language as Gnomish or Zil. I'd always tough that the "new" Common was a kind of gnomish which have taken over, since the young House Sivis had translate all text in their language.
The White Sorcerer
01-20-07, 12:12 AM In the ECS there is no such language as Gnomish or Zil.

The Gnome language was dropped from the list by accident. This was fixed in errata.
Hellcow
01-20-07, 01:46 AM According to the ECS, they do. It's called Argon.
That's me writing without an ECS in front of me. TWS is also correct that the Gnome language was dropped accidentally, and you'll find it listed in the errata for the ECS.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
airwalkrr 01-19-07, 04:04 PM	Curse WotC for not having a Search feature. Anyway... First a little background before my question: We are starting the Savage Tide AP this weekend set in Eberron. My character has a background as the apprentice of a late wizard who was a member of the Seekers organization. My character did not discover the existence of the Seekers until after his master's death, when he decided to take up adventuring and hunt down this secretive organization. He longs to find the group and join them since what he has read about them in his master's journal is fascinating indeed. Part of my character's background involves his master teaching him a bunch of dead languages that he saw little use for at the time. (Unknown to him, dead languages are considered a status symbol in the Seekers.) However, after looking through the ECS, I don't see any languages that would really qualify as dead. I am mildy familiar with Eberron, but my Eb-fu is not such that I would recall any mention of old languages that have fallen out of use. Can anyone think of any such languages?
RaShal 01-19-07, 04:16 PM	Off the top of my mind... Ancient Giant (the giant civilization has pretty much been reduced to barbarism)... draconic... and perhaps one of the monstrous/goblinoid languages. From the examples I've given, you could probably go with any of the cultures that have fallen in on themselves. Ra'Shal
eehamburg 01-19-07, 04:43 PM	Old High Dhakaani
Hellcow 01-19-07, 05:00 PM	If you want TRULY dead languages: The Riedran language uses the "Old Common" alphabet. This, presumably, refers to a language common in Sarlona that evolved into modern Riedran and the Common tongue of Khorvaire. So, Old Common is one canon dead language. Likewise, the Gnome langauge uses the Dwarvish alphabet, despite the fact that the gnomes had a sophisticated civilization before encountering the dwarves. In my opinion, the current Gnome language is an invented language created over the last few thousand years, and that there is an "Old Zil". (Actually, I wrote something about this for Dragonmarked - because Sivis tries to preserve dead langagues - but I'm not sure it made the final cut.) These are dead langauges by canon. However, you could certainly present others. For example, even if you say that the giants of Xen'drik spoke the modern Giant langauge, that could easily have been the "Common" of the Giants - while individual giant nations (The Sul'at League, etc) may have had their own languages. The Serens could have their own language, a blend of Common and Draconic. There could be a language for each old Sarlonan nation. It could be that each of the Five Nations had an individual language, and that "Common" is Karrnish, spread across the nations by Galifar. D&D generally reduces the number of human language in order to simplify things and to allow adventurers to communicate with the people they encounter. But if you want to add complexity, you certainly can.
rabidclipper 01-19-07, 05:04 PM	What do Cuoatls speak... how about old Gnomish, it has been suggested that modern Gnome is a constructed language (like esperanto but less ridiculous). Ancient Giant, Old High Dhakaani... or if he is REALLY a badass, how about the most dead language of them all - the language of the Quori of the previous age!
goblin_pride 01-19-07, 05:56 PM	This is an excellent thread topic and I can't wait to see what Darth Syntax adds to it.
rabidclipper 01-19-07, 06:22 PM	Snip... had their own languages. The Serens could have their own language, a blend of Common and Draconic. There could be Snip... The Seren language which combines Common and Draconic? Would that not be Argon, mighty hellcow? Isn't that still spoken?
Darth Syntax 01-19-07, 09:21 PM	Having been invoked (like some malign spirit of language) I hereby offer up my (not exhaustive) list of dead languages in Eberron. Non-Canon note: I have dispensed with the table of languages and writing systems as presented in the ECS because I don't fell that they fit with the history of the world. This is especially clear with the whole gnome writing system. Zil (in my interpretation) is written in a calligraphic script which is related to the Old High Dhakaani alphabet and shares no relation whatever to the abjad that the Mror use for writing as the contact between these two groups is a relatively recent historical occurrence. Similarly, Aereni is writing in a logographic script which is related to some of the writing systems in Xen'Drik. Sylvan is not written in this script, as there is no in-world connection between the elves and the fey. Now, moving along to the topic at hand. -- Proto-Lan-Gathic: This reconstructed language is the hypothetical parent of both the Lanthic and Gathic language families and the most recent common ancestor of Galifaran and Reidran. Spoken some 6,000 years ago. Living Lanthic languages include Valdyavath (called Galifaran by many), Lhazaarite, and several small languages spoken in North-Eastern Khorvaire. Living Gathic languages include Riedran, Bricoinan (the 'official' language of the Eldeen Reaches), and many others. Dead Lanthic languages: Middle Valdyavath (the native language of Galifar I), Dvanyish (a language of central Karrnath, died out about 300 years ago),and Lanthic (the language believed to have been spoken by Lhaazar herself). Dead Gathic Languages: Old Aundairan (replaced by Middle Valdyavath by Galifar I), West-Brelish (same story as old Aundairan), Gathic (the ancient language of central-west Sarlona), Adoi (a sarlonan language which was forceibly suppressed by the Inspired in favor of Riedran) Dhaarlukesh Languages: This is the language family to which OHD, The Kech Volaar language, and several other southern goblinoid languages belong. Dead Daarlukesh languages: Old High Dhakaani (litterary, learned, official language of the Dhakaani empire at the time of the Daelkyr Wars), Kukulyaran (early Dhakaani language, and ancestor of OHD), Evanya (sometimes called north-dhakaani, contemporary of OHD). Yimyataaq languages: Goblinoid languages of north-eastern Khorvaire. All but a few of these are extinct. Xen-Tradash languages: The family that includes many of the giant languages , the elven languages, drow, sahuagin, and others has many notable dead languages. Dead Xen-Tradash languages: Xen-Tradi (the language most commonly associated with the great giant civilization of Xen-Drik). Arventari (an ancient elven language whose speakers either died out or were assimilated some 7,000 years ago. Evidence of this language is mostly from texts dealing with navigation, astronomy, and trade). Taalco-Zhilashtryo languages: The language family that includes modern Zil and most of the languages of the Talenta Plains has several dead languages of importance. Dead T-Z languages: Archaic Zil (officially dead, but often used as a learned language in Zilargo), Nauda (known from some inscription found on clay tablets in southern Cyre, Nauda was instrumental is showing the link between the Zil and Talen languages, and is thought to have been spoken by the ancestors of modern gnomes) -- Well thats probably enough for the moment. As you can no doubt see, I believe that there should be great language diversity in Eberron, in the past and in the present.
The White Sorcerer 01-19-07, 11:04 PM	The Serens could have their own language, a blend of Common and Draconic. According to the ECS, they do. It's called Argon.
MartM 01-20-07, 12:07 AM	Likewise, the Gnome langauge uses the Dwarvish alphabet, despite the fact that the gnomes had a sophisticated civilization before encountering the dwarves. In my opinion, the current Gnome language is an invented language created over the last few thousand years, and that there is an "Old Zil". (Actually, I wrote something about this for Dragonmarked - because Sivis tries to preserve dead langagues - but I'm not sure it made the final cut.) In the ECS there is no such language as Gnomish or Zil. I'd always tough that the "new" Common was a kind of gnomish which have taken over, since the young House Sivis had translate all text in their language.
The White Sorcerer 01-20-07, 12:12 AM	In the ECS there is no such language as Gnomish or Zil. The Gnome language was dropped from the list by accident. This was fixed in errata.
Hellcow 01-20-07, 01:46 AM	According to the ECS, they do. It's called Argon. That's me writing without an ECS in front of me. TWS is also correct that the Gnome language was dropped accidentally, and you'll find it listed in the errata for the ECS.