Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Geoff Watson 06-25-04, 09:18 PM	What's the difference between Deathless and Undead? It seems like the only major difference is that they aren't automatically Evil. With 'shades of grey' alignment being used in Eberron, why not use undead? Geoff.
Gilgiga of the Hunt 06-25-04, 09:34 PM	It's something to do with the source of their power. Undead are powered by negitive energy, a force that normaly kills. Deathless are powered by postive energy, the force of life. It's just a matter of switching the wires.
sciborg2 06-26-04, 01:11 AM	i find it amusing that deathless are supposedly not "unnatural" as the undead are. Face it, they're the same thing with different types of batteries. :D
Dreamtide 06-26-04, 01:44 AM	Originally posted by sciborg2 i find it amusing that deathless are supposedly not "unnatural" as the undead are. Face it, they're the same thing with different types of batteries. :D And that right there is what makes them so interesting. I bet there are plenty of folks on Khorvaire who feel exactly that way. But there's a really big island full of elves who would very strongly disagree.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 06-26-04, 06:16 AM	I can see lots of differences between the two. Mechanically yes, they are pretty much the same, but flavour wise they are a whole different ball game. Take undead first. They are an unatural preservation of 'life' through support by negative energy. Negative energy corrupts the living and is thus usually ascociated with evil. Deathlessness, the way I see it, is a rebirth using positive energy. Instead of preservation through negative energy, the deathless are reborn into their old bodies using positive energy, the life giving force. So much of the positive energy needs to go into sustaining the soul, so the body feels some adverse affects (ie, no metabolism). Positive energy tends to bring out the best in people, making them more often good. I could go on ;)
Geoff Watson 06-26-04, 10:05 PM	I don't really see the difference. In 2nd edition, various undead were powered by positive energy (mummies are the only one I can remember off the top of my head), and they were no different from the negative energy undead (could be turned, usually attacked on sight, etc). It's just more 'elves are good, no matter what they actually do' rubbish; the typical D&D elf is elitist, genocidal, racist and 'good'. Geoff.
Hrothgar the Dwarf 06-27-04, 02:12 PM	Originally posted by Geoff Watson It's just more 'elves are good, no matter what they actually do' rubbish; the typical D&D elf is elitist, genocidal, racist and 'good'. [/B] AMEN!
Stouthammer 06-27-04, 03:00 PM	I just want to point out that the 'Deathless' type was not invented in/for Eberron, though it will probably make it more public than its prior source. I believe it first appears in the Book of Exalted Deeds and you might find out more information about it in that publication if you're so inclined.
Alathayn 06-27-04, 05:01 PM	In 2nd edition, various undead were powered by positive energy (mummies are the only one I can remember off the top of my head), and they were no different from the negative energy undead (could be turned, usually attacked on sight, etc). But this is 3rd edition and this is out of the window. It's just more 'elves are good, no matter what they actually do' rubbish; the typical D&D elf is elitist, genocidal, racist and 'good'. Well, um, no, not in Eberron. Remember we've got a alignment blur in Eberron and there can be evil deathless and good undead. Aerenal are more often good than evil, because they don't interfere with other people and keep to themself and deathless are considered more good than evil because they are created of willing aspirants, that allready died and keep their memorys and keep serving and counseling their people, unlike Karnathi undead for example, that get "conscriptet" no matter wether they want or not, loose their memory (though they remain some consciousnes) and exist only for war and are thus, per classical view at least, a mockery of life (though other views exist, especially among the normal cult followers of the Blood of Vol that belive that death is perfectly fine).
Geoff Watson 06-27-04, 08:22 PM	Originally posted by Stouthammer I just want to point out that the 'Deathless' type was not invented in/for Eberron, though it will probably make it more public than its prior source. I believe it first appears in the Book of Exalted Deeds and you might find out more information about it in that publication if you're so inclined. The Book of Exalted Deeds had a lot of stupid "normally bad but we call it Good" stuff such as 'Good' assassins, 'Good' poison, 'Good' diseases', etc. 'Good' undead (in D&D) are still silly even if you call them something else. Geoff.
Geoff Watson 06-27-04, 08:24 PM	Originally posted by Alathayn Well, um, no, not in Eberron. Remember we've got a alignment blur in Eberron and there can be evil deathless and good undead. So why not use Undead? Why use a new monster type that is nearly completely redundant? They got rid of 'Beast' as it was redundant with 'Animal' and 'Magical Beast'. Geoff.