Debrett's of Galifar (Correct & Consistent Titles & Styles of the Ranks of Nobility) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Debrett's of Galifar (Correct & Consistent Titles & Styles of the Ranks of Nobility) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Seth of the First Brigade
07-27-06, 02:14 AM This thread is being opened in response to Siran Dunmorgans request (see below) for such. I really don’t personally know where to begin, but I think this might be a good place to start.

It is commonly accepted that the following parallels hold true concerning the 5 Nations and their likenesses to real world countries. For this discussion I will request that we use the following for consistencies sake.

Aundair: France
Breland: Victorian Britain
Cyre: Italy (At the height of its Renaissance)
Thrane: Spain
Karrnath: Russia

For those who don’t understand the general gist of this thread please see the links below provided by Siran Dunmorgans

I personally would like to see everyone’s ideas on Correct & Consistent Titles & Styles of the Ranks of Nobility of the 5 Nations as well as further breakdowns, if there are any, of Galifars extended Royal Family, and the Noble Families that make up its aristocracy. Do any of these individuals or families have land holds, or fiefdoms and who are they. These are just some of my ideas, or more to the point questions to be answered within this thread.

The following is for those of you who are to lazy to click on the following links. :D

Debrett’s is recognised internationally as the arbiter of etiquette and behaviour.

As publisher of Debrett’s Peerage & Baronetage and People of Today, Debrett’s is regarded as the authority on significant individuals in British society.

Debrett’s also publishes a series of titles covering social issues and occasions, and produces an annual guide to the international social season, continuing a tradition of publishing that began in 1769.

Debrett's People of Today
Britain's definitive biographical reference work. Published annually, Debrett's People of Today lists the top 25,000 movers and shakers in British business and social life.

Debrett's Peerage & Baronetage
Now in its 144th edition, this prestigious genealogical reference work has mapped the ancestries of the British aristocracy for over two centuries.

New Guide to Etiquette & Modern Manners
The authoritative guide to contemporary civilised living, this book celebrates the charm of classic good manners and their enduring role in society.

Debrett's Correct Form
Expert advice on the British system of titles and forms of address for all types of social and business situations.

Debrett's Guide to the Season
Inside information and essential advice on the social minefield that is The Season.

Debrett's Wedding Guide
A thoughtful, practical guide to the planning and etiquette of a modern wedding.

Royal and noble styles
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This page will detail the various styles used by royalty and nobility in Europe, in the final form arrived at in the nineteenth century. In earlier years, many different styles were used, with little standardization. Styles represent the fashion by which monarchs and noblemen are or were properly addressed.

1 Imperial, Royal, and Princely Styles
2 Noble Styles in Britain
3 Noble Styles in Germany
4 Sources and references
5 See also

Imperial, Royal, and Princely Styles
Emperors and Empresses enjoyed the style of His/Her Imperial Majesty (HIM).

Members of imperial families were generally styled His/Her Imperial Highness (HIH).

In Austria, the members of the Imperial family, due to their status as also members of the royal family of the Apostolic kingdom of Hungary, held the style of Imperial and Royal Highness (HI&RH), but actually traditionally the other way around: "königliche und kaiserliche Hoheit".

Also in the German Empire, the other 'heir' to the Holy Roman empire, the Emperor and Empress would be addressed as Imperial and Royal Majesty because of them ruling over the Kingdom of Prussia and the German Empire.

In Russia, children and male-line grandchildren of the Emperor had the style of Imperial Highness (HIH). Male-line great-grandchildren held the style of Highness (HH). Also, the eldest son of any person who held the style of Highness also held the style of Highness. All other male-line descendants held the style Serenity, often translated as Serene Highness (HSH). Some Russian noble princes also hold the style of Serenity; all others and Russian Counts hold the style of Illustriousness, often translated as Illustrious Highness (HIllH).
Kings and Queens have the style of Majesty (HM).

Members of royal families (Princes and Princesses) generally have the style of Royal Highness (HRH), although in some royal families (for instance, Denmark), more junior princes and princesses only bear the style of His or Her Highness (HH).

Reigning Grand Dukes and Grand Duchesses hold the style of Royal Highness (HRH).

The styles of members of Grand Ducal families have been inconsistent. In Luxembourg, more senior members of the family have also been Royal Highnesses, but only due to their status as Bourbon princes of Parma. In Baden and Hesse and by Rhine, junior members held the style of Grand Ducal Highness (HGDH). Members of other grand ducal families generally held the style of Highness (HH).

Reigning Dukes and Duchesses bore the style of Highness (HH), as did other members of ducal families.

Junior members of some ducal families bore the style of Ducal Serene Highness (HDSH), although it fell out of fashion.

The Elector of Hesse-Kassel also bore the style of Highness, as did other members of the Hesse-Kassel family.

Mediatized Dukes and reigning and mediatized Fürsten and Fürstinnen ("Princes" and "Princesses") bear the style of Serene Highness (HSH, German Durchlaucht), as do other members of princely families. Members of reigning princely families are also styled Serene Highness (HSH).

Mediatized Counts and Countesses bear the style of Illustrious Highness (HIllH, German Erlaucht).

Noble Styles in Britain
Dukes and Duchesses in the peerages of England, Scotland, Great Britain, Ireland, and the United Kingdom bear the style of Grace, eg. "His Grace", "Your Grace". They also hold the style of Most High, Potent, and Noble Prince, but even in the most formal situations that is usually simply abbreviated to Most Noble, and even that style is quite archaic and very formal.

Marquesses and Marchionesses bear the styles of The Most Honourable and Lordship (e.g. "His Lordship," "Her Ladyship," "Your Lordship," and "Your Ladyship.") They also hold the style of Most Noble and Puissant Prince, but even in the most formal situations this style is rarely used.
Earls, Countesses, Viscounts, Viscountesses, Barons, and Baronesses bear the styles of The Right Honourable and Lordship. Earls and Countesses also hold the style of Most Noble and Puissant Prince, but, as with Marquesses and Marchionesses, even in the most formal situations this style is rarely used.

For more details, see Forms of Address in the United Kingdom

Noble Styles in Germany
The nobility and all related styles were abolished with the Weimar Constitution of 1919, but are sometimes used socially.

Non-mediatized noble Dukes in Germany bear the style of Serene Highness (HSH) or High Born (Hochgeboren).

Non-mediatized noble Fürsten (princes) in Germany bear the styles of Serene Highness, Princely Grace (fürstliche Gnaden), or High Born.

Other non-mediatized German nobles of the rank of count or higher bear the style of High Born.

German nobles below the rank of count bear the style of High Well Born (Hochwohlgeboren).

heraldica.org
RoyalArk, mainly for non-European monarchies
Genealogists Discover Royal Roots for All

See also
Peerage, Styles and titles of peers in the United Kingdom
Royal and noble ranks
Prince compares various types of Princes of the blood and ruling princes
Princely state treats the nobility, mainly ruling houses, in the colonial context of the British Empire
Nobility
Clergy, Ecclesiastical Addresses, Prince of the church
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_styles"
Categories: Honorifics | Titles

I look forward to hearing each of your thoughts regarding this subject.

Please take a moment to reflect that for all their differences, there is one thing that His Most Puissant Majesty of Karrnath and Her Serene Majesty of Aundair have in common, something altogether too rare for heads of state in any world: they were able to marry for love.

—Siran Dunmorgan

P. S. Someone needs to start a thread like "Debrett's (http://www.debretts.co.uk/db2005/home.asp) of Galifar," so that we can work out correct and consistent titles and styles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_styles) of the ranks of nobility in the Five Nations.
ArcTan
07-27-06, 03:05 AM These are by no means all that commonly accepted. Some people accept them, some don't, and while you've picked some of the most popular ones there are still those who are highly resistant to drawing close parallels between Galifar and real-world nations at all -- certainly taking it to the point of actually basing forms of address for these nations on different real-world European nations is going a little far.

Especially since I don't think styles should differ much if at all across the borders of the Five Nations. There were, after all, all part of a single unified empire and political system only a century ago. None of the nations you've named here can claim the same degree of cultural and political relatedness.

I don't see why a homebrew system of ranks and titles that's only vaguely based on any single European system wouldn't work just fine. We already have the fictional idea of the noble prefixes ir' and d', and such.
davethebrave371
07-27-06, 04:00 AM These are by no means all that commonly accepted. Some people accept them, some don't, and while you've picked some of the most popular ones there are still those who are highly resistant to drawing close parallels between Galifar and real-world nations at all -- certainly taking it to the point of actually basing forms of address for these nations on different real-world European nations is going a little far.

Especially since I don't think styles should differ much if at all across the borders of the Five Nations. There were, after all, all part of a single unified empire and political system only a century ago. None of the nations you've named here can claim the same degree of cultural and political relatedness.

I don't see why a homebrew system of ranks and titles that's only vaguely based on any single European system wouldn't work just fine. We already have the fictional idea of the noble prefixes ir' and d', and such.

I have to agree with this, as much as it sounds cool to add that variety. It's been less than half a decade since the various nobles have stopped supporting one person as the True Heir, and there'd be no reason for any of the monarchs or their courts to change it up except maybe Thrane (since they actually did seem to want a new regime...but then again, they don't really use or pay attention to royalty, so maybe not even them). If Breland changed up its system, the other leaders and the news chronicles would jump on it.

EXTRA! EXTRA! BRELAND DEFAULTS ON ROYAL TITLE! AUNDAIR, CYRE AND KARRNATH NOW MAIN CONTENDERS TO RESTORE OLD GALIFAR!

I think one style does make the most sense, unless you add some kind of holy honorific to the Thraneish nobility, and even then probably just King, Queen, Prince and Princess.
maollelujah
07-27-06, 08:08 AM I am one that doesn't like the usage of normal European titles for the nobility of Galifar. It makes Galifar sound like a third-rate European power. So I've stuck with only Prince, Lord and Sire, with each rank having slight differences, that any noble would know about.

This is how I've been doing handling nobility (which is mainly for Breland.)

Royal Family:

Royal Family is split between those that are called Royal Prince or Royal Princesses and those just called Prince or Princess. This distinguishes between the sons and daughters of Boranel and the lesser members of the ir'Wynarn family.

The Crown Prince is also known sometimes as the the Prince Galethspyre, as he is the by charter the Mayor of Galethspyre. The third son is known as the Prince Moonwatch.

Nobles:

The next level of the nobility are families that automatically have a spot in the parliament. These for the most part are old families, and most of them are nobles of a County. (ir'Tain, ir'Clarn, etc..) I believe there are twenty-seven. Their official title is 'Great Lord of the Realm of Galifar (and Breland) ' but they use just 'Lord' or 'Countess' for woman, as in 'Lord ir'Clarn' or 'Countess ir'Halan'.

Then comes 'Lord of the Realm of Galifar (and Breland)' These are lesser lords, but are distinguished the same way as the 'Great Lords'. They don't automatically gain a seat in parliament.

Next comes the 'Lord Sire of Realm of Breland'. They use the ir' moniker, but are not called Lords. I've been using Lord Sire or Sire, as in 'Lord Sire Orast ir' Hunklemein' or just 'Sire Orast ir'Hunklemein'. These are mostly the nouveau nobility created since Breland was founded.

Of course finanly the rank of 'Knight of Galifar and Breland' which Sire is used.

There is also the rank of 'His Piousness' that the Church of the Silver Flame grants to its most ardent supporters.
Splendide
07-27-06, 08:30 AM I'm lazy.

Every `ir' besides the king or prince is Lord/Lady.
Sir is what you get when you're not quite important enough to be `ir'.

Any titles you may have through membership of orders, military distinction, land ownership or religious status are secondary titles.
Seth of the First Brigade
07-27-06, 10:19 AM These are by no means all that commonly accepted. Some people accept them, some don't, and while you've picked some of the most popular ones there are still those who are highly resistant to drawing close parallels between Galifar and real-world nations at all -- certainly taking it to the point of actually basing forms of address for these nations on different real-world European nations is going a little far.

Especially since I don't think styles should differ much if at all across the borders of the Five Nations. There were, after all, all part of a single unified empire and political system only a century ago. None of the nations you've named here can claim the same degree of cultural and political relatedness.

I don't see why a homebrew system of ranks and titles that's only vaguely based on any single European system wouldn't work just fine. We already have the fictional idea of the noble prefixes ir' and d', and such.

I too initially had this thought seeing that it had been only a century or so give or take a few years since the 5 Nations had been a unified nation/empire, but I silenced it within myself shortly after thinking about the fact that they were not always a unified nation/empire. At one point in time they were 5 distinct and separate nations, and I don’t think that it would be far fetched to say that they would probably have had established their own feudal system or state. So in this regard we can go with two schools of thought.

1. Seeing as they have just broke away from once being a unified empire, their titles and styles have remained the same. If that is the case then what are they, and who are they?

2. Over the last hundred years things have started to change, (especially in Breland and Thrane, though Breland has not completely disbanded the monarchy altogether they are certainly; at least some of their key players working towards a democracy or at least a democracy of sorts). If this is the case what have those changes been. Have the 5 Nations began a return to the old ways, cultures, titles and styles of their civilizations prior to the 5 Nations, they are already obviously trying to each set their selves apart from each other with individual identities. I.E. Aundarians are not like the Brelish, the Brelish are not like Karrnathians, the Thranes are altogether different having discovered the Silver Flame, and Cyre is no more, though even they have started to develop there own distinct culture separate and different from the rest of the 5 Nations, one of which to some degree they had prior to the Mourning I might add.

3. I know I said 2 schools of thought, but this is more of a PS:. I am not certain about the ir' designation, but d' certainly has been used in real world styles, most notably amongst Nobility of Latin descent if I remember correctly. Just FYI. :)

At any rate defining a system of social acceptance among the aristocracy of the 5 Nations would certainly give it more depth.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Seth of the First Brigade 07-27-06, 02:14 AM	This thread is being opened in response to Siran Dunmorgans request (see below) for such. I really don’t personally know where to begin, but I think this might be a good place to start. It is commonly accepted that the following parallels hold true concerning the 5 Nations and their likenesses to real world countries. For this discussion I will request that we use the following for consistencies sake. Aundair: France Breland: Victorian Britain Cyre: Italy (At the height of its Renaissance) Thrane: Spain Karrnath: Russia For those who don’t understand the general gist of this thread please see the links below provided by Siran Dunmorgans I personally would like to see everyone’s ideas on Correct & Consistent Titles & Styles of the Ranks of Nobility of the 5 Nations as well as further breakdowns, if there are any, of Galifars extended Royal Family, and the Noble Families that make up its aristocracy. Do any of these individuals or families have land holds, or fiefdoms and who are they. These are just some of my ideas, or more to the point questions to be answered within this thread. The following is for those of you who are to lazy to click on the following links. :D Debrett’s is recognised internationally as the arbiter of etiquette and behaviour. As publisher of Debrett’s Peerage & Baronetage and People of Today, Debrett’s is regarded as the authority on significant individuals in British society. Debrett’s also publishes a series of titles covering social issues and occasions, and produces an annual guide to the international social season, continuing a tradition of publishing that began in 1769. Debrett's People of Today Britain's definitive biographical reference work. Published annually, Debrett's People of Today lists the top 25,000 movers and shakers in British business and social life. Debrett's Peerage & Baronetage Now in its 144th edition, this prestigious genealogical reference work has mapped the ancestries of the British aristocracy for over two centuries. New Guide to Etiquette & Modern Manners The authoritative guide to contemporary civilised living, this book celebrates the charm of classic good manners and their enduring role in society. Debrett's Correct Form Expert advice on the British system of titles and forms of address for all types of social and business situations. Debrett's Guide to the Season Inside information and essential advice on the social minefield that is The Season. Debrett's Wedding Guide A thoughtful, practical guide to the planning and etiquette of a modern wedding. Royal and noble styles From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This page will detail the various styles used by royalty and nobility in Europe, in the final form arrived at in the nineteenth century. In earlier years, many different styles were used, with little standardization. Styles represent the fashion by which monarchs and noblemen are or were properly addressed. 1 Imperial, Royal, and Princely Styles 2 Noble Styles in Britain 3 Noble Styles in Germany 4 Sources and references 5 See also Imperial, Royal, and Princely Styles Emperors and Empresses enjoyed the style of His/Her Imperial Majesty (HIM). Members of imperial families were generally styled His/Her Imperial Highness (HIH). In Austria, the members of the Imperial family, due to their status as also members of the royal family of the Apostolic kingdom of Hungary, held the style of Imperial and Royal Highness (HI&RH), but actually traditionally the other way around: "königliche und kaiserliche Hoheit". Also in the German Empire, the other 'heir' to the Holy Roman empire, the Emperor and Empress would be addressed as Imperial and Royal Majesty because of them ruling over the Kingdom of Prussia and the German Empire. In Russia, children and male-line grandchildren of the Emperor had the style of Imperial Highness (HIH). Male-line great-grandchildren held the style of Highness (HH). Also, the eldest son of any person who held the style of Highness also held the style of Highness. All other male-line descendants held the style Serenity, often translated as Serene Highness (HSH). Some Russian noble princes also hold the style of Serenity; all others and Russian Counts hold the style of Illustriousness, often translated as Illustrious Highness (HIllH). Kings and Queens have the style of Majesty (HM). Members of royal families (Princes and Princesses) generally have the style of Royal Highness (HRH), although in some royal families (for instance, Denmark), more junior princes and princesses only bear the style of His or Her Highness (HH). Reigning Grand Dukes and Grand Duchesses hold the style of Royal Highness (HRH). The styles of members of Grand Ducal families have been inconsistent. In Luxembourg, more senior members of the family have also been Royal Highnesses, but only due to their status as Bourbon princes of Parma. In Baden and Hesse and by Rhine, junior members held the style of Grand Ducal Highness (HGDH). Members of other grand ducal families generally held the style of Highness (HH). Reigning Dukes and Duchesses bore the style of Highness (HH), as did other members of ducal families. Junior members of some ducal families bore the style of Ducal Serene Highness (HDSH), although it fell out of fashion. The Elector of Hesse-Kassel also bore the style of Highness, as did other members of the Hesse-Kassel family. Mediatized Dukes and reigning and mediatized Fürsten and Fürstinnen ("Princes" and "Princesses") bear the style of Serene Highness (HSH, German Durchlaucht), as do other members of princely families. Members of reigning princely families are also styled Serene Highness (HSH). Mediatized Counts and Countesses bear the style of Illustrious Highness (HIllH, German Erlaucht). Noble Styles in Britain Dukes and Duchesses in the peerages of England, Scotland, Great Britain, Ireland, and the United Kingdom bear the style of Grace, eg. "His Grace", "Your Grace". They also hold the style of Most High, Potent, and Noble Prince, but even in the most formal situations that is usually simply abbreviated to Most Noble, and even that style is quite archaic and very formal. Marquesses and Marchionesses bear the styles of The Most Honourable and Lordship (e.g. "His Lordship," "Her Ladyship," "Your Lordship," and "Your Ladyship.") They also hold the style of Most Noble and Puissant Prince, but even in the most formal situations this style is rarely used. Earls, Countesses, Viscounts, Viscountesses, Barons, and Baronesses bear the styles of The Right Honourable and Lordship. Earls and Countesses also hold the style of Most Noble and Puissant Prince, but, as with Marquesses and Marchionesses, even in the most formal situations this style is rarely used. For more details, see Forms of Address in the United Kingdom Noble Styles in Germany The nobility and all related styles were abolished with the Weimar Constitution of 1919, but are sometimes used socially. Non-mediatized noble Dukes in Germany bear the style of Serene Highness (HSH) or High Born (Hochgeboren). Non-mediatized noble Fürsten (princes) in Germany bear the styles of Serene Highness, Princely Grace (fürstliche Gnaden), or High Born. Other non-mediatized German nobles of the rank of count or higher bear the style of High Born. German nobles below the rank of count bear the style of High Well Born (Hochwohlgeboren). heraldica.org RoyalArk, mainly for non-European monarchies Genealogists Discover Royal Roots for All See also Peerage, Styles and titles of peers in the United Kingdom Royal and noble ranks Prince compares various types of Princes of the blood and ruling princes Princely state treats the nobility, mainly ruling houses, in the colonial context of the British Empire Nobility Clergy, Ecclesiastical Addresses, Prince of the church Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_styles" Categories: Honorifics \| Titles I look forward to hearing each of your thoughts regarding this subject. Please take a moment to reflect that for all their differences, there is one thing that His Most Puissant Majesty of Karrnath and Her Serene Majesty of Aundair have in common, something altogether too rare for heads of state in any world: they were able to marry for love. —Siran Dunmorgan P. S. Someone needs to start a thread like "Debrett's (http://www.debretts.co.uk/db2005/home.asp) of Galifar," so that we can work out correct and consistent titles and styles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_styles) of the ranks of nobility in the Five Nations.
ArcTan 07-27-06, 03:05 AM	These are by no means all that commonly accepted. Some people accept them, some don't, and while you've picked some of the most popular ones there are still those who are highly resistant to drawing close parallels between Galifar and real-world nations at all -- certainly taking it to the point of actually basing forms of address for these nations on different real-world European nations is going a little far. Especially since I don't think styles should differ much if at all across the borders of the Five Nations. There were, after all, all part of a single unified empire and political system only a century ago. None of the nations you've named here can claim the same degree of cultural and political relatedness. I don't see why a homebrew system of ranks and titles that's only vaguely based on any single European system wouldn't work just fine. We already have the fictional idea of the noble prefixes ir' and d', and such.
davethebrave371 07-27-06, 04:00 AM	These are by no means all that commonly accepted. Some people accept them, some don't, and while you've picked some of the most popular ones there are still those who are highly resistant to drawing close parallels between Galifar and real-world nations at all -- certainly taking it to the point of actually basing forms of address for these nations on different real-world European nations is going a little far. Especially since I don't think styles should differ much if at all across the borders of the Five Nations. There were, after all, all part of a single unified empire and political system only a century ago. None of the nations you've named here can claim the same degree of cultural and political relatedness. I don't see why a homebrew system of ranks and titles that's only vaguely based on any single European system wouldn't work just fine. We already have the fictional idea of the noble prefixes ir' and d', and such. I have to agree with this, as much as it sounds cool to add that variety. It's been less than half a decade since the various nobles have stopped supporting one person as the True Heir, and there'd be no reason for any of the monarchs or their courts to change it up except maybe Thrane (since they actually did seem to want a new regime...but then again, they don't really use or pay attention to royalty, so maybe not even them). If Breland changed up its system, the other leaders and the news chronicles would jump on it. EXTRA! EXTRA! BRELAND DEFAULTS ON ROYAL TITLE! AUNDAIR, CYRE AND KARRNATH NOW MAIN CONTENDERS TO RESTORE OLD GALIFAR! I think one style does make the most sense, unless you add some kind of holy honorific to the Thraneish nobility, and even then probably just King, Queen, Prince and Princess.
maollelujah 07-27-06, 08:08 AM	I am one that doesn't like the usage of normal European titles for the nobility of Galifar. It makes Galifar sound like a third-rate European power. So I've stuck with only Prince, Lord and Sire, with each rank having slight differences, that any noble would know about. This is how I've been doing handling nobility (which is mainly for Breland.) Royal Family: Royal Family is split between those that are called Royal Prince or Royal Princesses and those just called Prince or Princess. This distinguishes between the sons and daughters of Boranel and the lesser members of the ir'Wynarn family. The Crown Prince is also known sometimes as the the Prince Galethspyre, as he is the by charter the Mayor of Galethspyre. The third son is known as the Prince Moonwatch. Nobles: The next level of the nobility are families that automatically have a spot in the parliament. These for the most part are old families, and most of them are nobles of a County. (ir'Tain, ir'Clarn, etc..) I believe there are twenty-seven. Their official title is 'Great Lord of the Realm of Galifar (and Breland) ' but they use just 'Lord' or 'Countess' for woman, as in 'Lord ir'Clarn' or 'Countess ir'Halan'. Then comes 'Lord of the Realm of Galifar (and Breland)' These are lesser lords, but are distinguished the same way as the 'Great Lords'. They don't automatically gain a seat in parliament. Next comes the 'Lord Sire of Realm of Breland'. They use the ir' moniker, but are not called Lords. I've been using Lord Sire or Sire, as in 'Lord Sire Orast ir' Hunklemein' or just 'Sire Orast ir'Hunklemein'. These are mostly the nouveau nobility created since Breland was founded. Of course finanly the rank of 'Knight of Galifar and Breland' which Sire is used. There is also the rank of 'His Piousness' that the Church of the Silver Flame grants to its most ardent supporters.
Splendide 07-27-06, 08:30 AM	I'm lazy. Every `ir' besides the king or prince is Lord/Lady. Sir is what you get when you're not quite important enough to be `ir'. Any titles you may have through membership of orders, military distinction, land ownership or religious status are secondary titles.
Seth of the First Brigade 07-27-06, 10:19 AM	These are by no means all that commonly accepted. Some people accept them, some don't, and while you've picked some of the most popular ones there are still those who are highly resistant to drawing close parallels between Galifar and real-world nations at all -- certainly taking it to the point of actually basing forms of address for these nations on different real-world European nations is going a little far. Especially since I don't think styles should differ much if at all across the borders of the Five Nations. There were, after all, all part of a single unified empire and political system only a century ago. None of the nations you've named here can claim the same degree of cultural and political relatedness. I don't see why a homebrew system of ranks and titles that's only vaguely based on any single European system wouldn't work just fine. We already have the fictional idea of the noble prefixes ir' and d', and such. I too initially had this thought seeing that it had been only a century or so give or take a few years since the 5 Nations had been a unified nation/empire, but I silenced it within myself shortly after thinking about the fact that they were not always a unified nation/empire. At one point in time they were 5 distinct and separate nations, and I don’t think that it would be far fetched to say that they would probably have had established their own feudal system or state. So in this regard we can go with two schools of thought. 1. Seeing as they have just broke away from once being a unified empire, their titles and styles have remained the same. If that is the case then what are they, and who are they? 2. Over the last hundred years things have started to change, (especially in Breland and Thrane, though Breland has not completely disbanded the monarchy altogether they are certainly; at least some of their key players working towards a democracy or at least a democracy of sorts). If this is the case what have those changes been. Have the 5 Nations began a return to the old ways, cultures, titles and styles of their civilizations prior to the 5 Nations, they are already obviously trying to each set their selves apart from each other with individual identities. I.E. Aundarians are not like the Brelish, the Brelish are not like Karrnathians, the Thranes are altogether different having discovered the Silver Flame, and Cyre is no more, though even they have started to develop there own distinct culture separate and different from the rest of the 5 Nations, one of which to some degree they had prior to the Mourning I might add. 3. I know I said 2 schools of thought, but this is more of a PS:. I am not certain about the ir' designation, but d' certainly has been used in real world styles, most notably amongst Nobility of Latin descent if I remember correctly. Just FYI. :) At any rate defining a system of social acceptance among the aristocracy of the 5 Nations would certainly give it more depth.