Post/Author/DateTime	Post
yossarius 04-18-07, 10:29 AM	I've begun to notice that characters played in Eberron tend to defy their assumed roles in the party, and I was curious if anyone agreed. For example, in the group I'm playing in, my character is a changeling rogue/wizard who is always the first to charge into combat, before the 1/2 orc barbarian or the warforged fighter. The other players in the party watched in amazment (I am the newcomer to the group) as I did this. After all, it was assumed that she would hang back and sling artillery, and when she instead to the lead in the melee, they didn't even really seem to know what to do. Of course, such behavior can take place in any setting, but it seems to me like the Eberron setting in some ways encourages this more than some others. I was just curious if anyone else agreed, and how that happened in your group.
Nived 04-18-07, 11:24 AM	Once in a party I ran game for, lovingly remembered as Halfling Death where the three players all independantly (or so they told me) made Talenta halflings.... a rogue, a ranger, and a barbarian... the barbarian ended up being the face of the group. He did all the talking, which was fine he had a decent charisma (he didn't want to take more penelties then he already would for being small), and he roleplayed it all very well. Blunt, to the point, but not rude angry ME SMASH! He even beat a NPC wizard at a chess like stratagy game (using rules found in an old Dragon) to earn some information. He was not your typical barbarian.
Edymnion 04-18-07, 06:53 PM	Eh, I rarely make characters that fall into the PHB stereotypes for classes. I'm a big fan of "Just use whatever mechanics fits your concept, and screw the description in the book." One of my favorite non-Eberron characters was Durian, a civilized human city-boy with a "gift" from the setting's god of rage. Basically, he didn't have a first or second gear, he would go from calm to slobbering without anything in between. No wilderness training, nothing barbarian about him at all, other than being a good fighter and the rage thing.
dutchmason 04-18-07, 07:39 PM	I think that what you're seeing is just the manifestation of the fact that Eberron's feel supports the outsider off-the wall anything goes thing more than greyhawk or FR where even in the literature you have the fighter, the ranger, the bard, whatever and that prevails almost everywhere. Even in the eberron books you've got a similar thing but with the novels you have instances where classes usually not seen as combat oriented or offensive take that to a new level. Even some of the NPCs presented give that idea, I mean one of the City COuncil members for sharn is a druid, another is a talenta dinosaur racer, and the city is being run from the shadows by more halflings... so halfling death isn't surprising. My personal favorite was the warforged artificer who ended up through a series of strange events being the face of the party and an airship pilot, in defiance of all the rules behind that. Somehow even with the penalties for not being a mark he still kicked the Lyrander's pointy-eared butt consistantly.
DyloniusFunk 04-18-07, 09:05 PM	I've begun to notice that characters played in Eberron tend to defy their assumed roles in the party, and I was curious if anyone agreed. For example, in the group I'm playing in, my character is a changeling rogue/wizard who is always the first to charge into combat, before the 1/2 orc barbarian or the warforged fighter. The other players in the party watched in amazment (I am the newcomer to the group) as I did this. After all, it was assumed that she would hang back and sling artillery, and when she instead to the lead in the melee, they didn't even really seem to know what to do. It's also possible that the player is an idiot. I would like to know how a multi class rouge/wizard, two closes with the lowest Hit Dice in the game can be justifying running head long into combat. How often does she survive these littel charges?
MrFilthyIke 04-18-07, 09:21 PM	I'm kinda proud of the somewhat odd-ball characters in my campaign. Changeling Seren Warrior Warforged Holy Warrior Priest Warforged Warrior-Wizard Changeling Thief (Dungeon Delver path) Shifter Acrobat Half-Elf swashbuckler Human bounty hunter & bard of Tharashk Elf tracker and professional "escort" Nothing TOO out there, but all kinda just a tad off. ;)
Edymnion 04-18-07, 09:29 PM	It's also possible that the player is an idiot. I would like to know how a multi class rouge/wizard, two closes with the lowest Hit Dice in the game can be justifying running head long into combat. How often does she survive these littel charges?I've got a sorcerer that does this, although he's the alternate sorcerer from Dungeonscape that can burn spells to ignore damage...
davethebrave371 04-18-07, 10:48 PM	The thread title made me think of one of my characters, but the content isn't what I think of when I think of someone playing a class in defiance of its stereotypical role. For instance, our party Rogue took the Educated and Master Linguist feats and is a University student at Morgrave. Lots of Knowledge skills and languages, but also a little Open Lock and Disable Device. Why? Dungeoneering class. Morgrave is all about stuff like that, and it made so much sense when suggested to me. While earning those ranks in Knowledge (dungeoneering), of course you'd learn a little about locks and traps. There are probably 3rd year courses in Dungeoneering that focus on those particular subjects. Sleight of Hand? The student was a gambler who gambled himself into heavy debt with Kundarak (the reason for adventuring, although he's debt free as of last session...of course, we've been gaming for over a year and a half, so it was a hefty debt). Oh, and sneak attack? Biology classes put to good use. But in terms of party roles...well, we have an Artificer who does the melee tank role pretty freakin' well. I don't know if that's standard or not, as I only have my party to go off of, but the ECS seems to think they are more of a "spellcaster"-ish role. We have no cleric, so he also fills the healer role. Aside from that, everyone plays their classes pretty much as you'd expect.
Arcane Guyver 04-19-07, 02:18 AM	Honestly, I don't care what the fluff reads like, the character classes still cover the four basic roles (some better than others). Unless you allow unholy brokenness like the Abjurant Champion in your game, no primary party wizard should even try tanking. But in terms of party roles...well, we have an Artificer who does the melee tank role pretty freakin' well. I don't know if that's standard or not...the ECS seems to think they are more of a "spellcaster"-ish role. We have no cleric, so he also fills the healer role. If I had to put all the classes into one of the four party roles, Artificer would definitely go into the "Healer" category, not "Sorcerer."
WolfHati 04-19-07, 04:17 AM	Touch attacks for wizards can be pretty nasty, vampiric touch will even give you bonus hitpoints. Sneak attack will increase the damage of these spells. Between shield and mage armor, and possibly cat's grace, you can get a pretty nice AC at low levels. Mirror images are also nice, as is blur. There's plenty of ways mages have of confounding melee attacks, and I expect a rogue/mage or rogue/sorcerer with decent dex and con and weapon finesse could do pretty darn well at close ranges. This isn't some lame ass MMO, people can be a bit more creative in their approaches to a situation.
Drag0nUL 04-19-07, 04:24 AM	Actually I think an artificer is more akin to the blaster role than the healer one. Just get a lot of fireball wands and start spamming twin repeated empowered maximized fireballs all around the place. More tot he point of this thread: the funniest characters me and my best friend have ever played in Eberron were two halfling brothers, who came to be known as Lil' Jon&Bird of Prey. I was playing Lil'Jon(real name Jon d'Ghallanda), a halfling barbarian/Dragonmarked Heir of Ghallanda while Bird of Prey(real name Roscoe d'Ghallanda, halfling fighter/ranger/drgonmarked heir of Ghallanda) earned his nickname after his favorite battle trick(glidewing+ring of invisibility-kind of reminded us of Klingon Birds of Prey from Star Trek). On the surface they were both nice guys, as it it appropriate for member of the House of Hospitality. However they hated being made fun of(especially jokes involving their size) and things would get ugly quite quickly in such situations(Jon actually beat 3 Deneith mercenaries to death with nothing but an empty mug of ale; since then, house Deneith would regularly send their men after us; they would also regularly receive a small package containing the shrunken heads of their men, and a little note: 'Lots of love; the brothers dinamite'). they were also accomplished businessmen; they would sell anything to anyone, including party members. The party artificer was wanted by house Cannith, so they traded him for 35000 gp each; afterwards they got him back('the deal was giving him to you, not letting you keep him') and captured an airship in the process.
Splendide 04-19-07, 04:29 AM	I had a reverse problem when I played a Barbarian 1 / Sorcerer, in that people would forget that my character was a death magnet in melee, with minimal hitpoints. Wearing furs, shouting a lot and wielding a bastard sword (two handed) tends to cause that. Certainly in terms of character backgrounds it is easier in Eberron to have an unusual past for your character that may not necessarily be a natural fit. For example, my warforged warmage spent most of his time in the last war working in logistics as he was obsessed with efficiency of space. My half-elf bard was a swashbuckling airship captain/smuggler not noted for his singing prowess. My Changeling rogue felt that assuming other forms to his usual mute grey skin was dishonest and didn't do it unless his life was threatened. You can definitely pull off more oddball ideas.
Daydreamer 04-19-07, 05:04 AM	what you seem to be talking about isnt so much roles as tactics. For example-if the barbarian is the diplomatic leader of the group and does the talking, thats breaking a role. IF the wizard charges into melee before the barbarian, thats just stupid. (unless you have something up ur sleeve so to speak).
polt 04-19-07, 07:30 AM	Classes doesn't make your character unique or special or anything. A changeling barbarian isn't a character. It's a race and a class. The character is his personality, his traits, his history, his goals, his morale, his ethics and so on and so forth. A wizard doesn't say anything about the character, besides what he's capable of. You can have coward wizards, wizards who LOVE melee combat, of course they won't be good at it though.
dutchmason 04-19-07, 04:18 PM	With the right spells a wizard rouge can be nearly invincible for the first few rounds of combat, do nasty damage with spell+sneak attack and then get the heck out of dodge.
polt 04-19-07, 04:28 PM	With the right spells a wizard rouge can be nearly invincible for the first few rounds of combat, do nasty damage with spell+sneak attack and then get the heck out of dodge. That's really besides the point :D
Drag0nUL 04-19-07, 07:30 PM	I had a reverse problem when I played a Barbarian 1 / Sorcerer, in that people would forget that my character was a death magnet in melee, with minimal hitpoints. Wearing furs, shouting a lot and wielding a bastard sword (two handed) tends to cause that. I have had slimilar problems in the past. :) For some of my friends, my fighter 1/sorcerer 6 was still the party's 'fighter'.
Edymnion 04-19-07, 07:37 PM	If I had to put all the classes into one of the four party roles, Artificer would definitely go into the "Healer" category, not "Sorcerer."Actually I think an artificer is more akin to the blaster role than the healer one.Actually, the correct answer is all of the above. The Artificer is the single best backup everything in the game. A generic artificer can easily fill the roll of tank, healer, blaster, buffer, or anything else you need. A focused Artificer can even be BETTER than the traditional classes, for a short period of time.
yossarius 04-19-07, 08:57 PM	With the right spells a wizard rouge can be nearly invincible for the first few rounds of combat, do nasty damage with spell+sneak attack and then get the heck out of dodge. Exactly. I've gotten her high enough level now that the tactic is: 1: Greater Invisibility 2: Dimension Door behind foe 3: Sneak attack while arcane striking a 3rd level spell (did I mention she also has a +1 adamantine sai with deadly precision? That's 1d4+2 + 2d6 + 2d6 + 3d4 damage.) 4: Relocate and restab as necessary.
Arcane Guyver 04-20-07, 12:37 AM	Actually, the correct answer is all of the above. The Artificer is the single best backup everything in the game. A generic artificer can easily fill the roll of tank, healer, blaster, buffer, or anything else you need. A focused Artificer can even be BETTER than the traditional classes, for a short period of time. Well, traditionally, the "healer" role in a party is covered by the cleric or druid...classes that can do just about everything short of finding and disabling traps (and can even do that with magic). That's why I lump them in that category. Medium BAB, armor usage, ridiculous versatility, and easily more powerful than most other classes....sounds like a cleric or druid to me.
cancerousmango 04-20-07, 01:31 AM	My fool artificer PC keeps trying to make steam engines and other technological advances. :rolleyes:
Alex_ 04-20-07, 10:42 AM	... my warforged warmage spent most of his time in the last war working in logistics as he was obsessed with efficiency of space. That's a winner right there. Warmages don't get Implosion on their spell lists do they?
Nuclear_Buddha 04-20-07, 02:20 PM	One of the characters in my Last War campaign is Face: the warforged negotiator. He's a Bard/Divine Mind. Holy complete lack of synergy, Batman! It's a pretty cool character, though, really.
Edymnion 04-20-07, 05:44 PM	Well, traditionally, the "healer" role in a party is covered by the cleric or druid...Anyone even remotely capable of curing so much as 1 hp is typically thrown into the role of "healer", if they like it or not. Its why the Cleric is so overpowered, and to a lesser extent the Druid, because few people want to play them due to feeling like they're a walking band-aid.
Arcane Guyver 04-21-07, 08:27 PM	By "healer" I'm talking about the "support" role. It just so happens that the support character is best exemplified by the Healer class, IMO, so they get that title.
timothyx 04-22-07, 02:51 AM	I used to play Rogues as the go forth and fight up front, and then I'd play fighters who snuck around and backstabbed.. it was awfully confusing for the group I was in. In another group, I used to play the wizard who'd cast stoneskin and just barrel into a fight. It really depends on your style of play. I just finished running an eberron game with 4 people in it, one was a warforged cleric, a half orc bard, a halfling druid and a kalashtar fighter. I thought it was great
AkumaDaimyo 04-22-07, 07:50 AM	Yeah I tried playing a melee scout instead of a shooting scout. Didn't work so well so he went to shooting instead. But a melee scout sounds a lot like the ninja/samurai movies with the guy who runs insanely fast, draws his sword and cuts a person down without stopping, while the dead guy falls over after a brief pause. (Kinda like the Iijitsu strike without OA!)
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 04-24-07, 04:32 PM	Havent played it yet, but I have been toying with retooling a Bard as an Officer Class. Take Perform Weapon Drill and Perform Oratory [To yell like a drill sergent] to power suitably martal bard songs. Youd have good Spells for suport of a small unit, healing and buffs, the wepon skill and koages of a gentleman and skilled military leader, and it totaly changes the feel ofthe class. Bards, not just for Pharlani any more.