Destroying Schemas? SPOILERS Shadows of the Last War [Archive] - Wizards Community

Destroying Schemas? SPOILERS Shadows of the Last War [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
grifter100
11-29-04, 05:48 PM Hi!
My party is currently playing Shadows of the Last War (so please, don´t spoil me any further).

We´ve just been instructed to recover a lost schema that might have something to do with the Day of Mourning for a House Cannith heir. Since I trust her about as far as I can toss her (which isn´t very far, since I´m playing a halfling rogue), I want to destroy the schema once we find it.

My question: is there any official or unofficial info on how one would do that? Couldn´t find anything in the ECS...

Tia.
Ch@pel
11-29-04, 05:53 PM If you're gonna destroy it, why bother going on the mission? Just do something else, that way you can still get some treasure out of it.

Also, what makes you think it has to do with the day of Mourning?

Anyway, if you insist on destroying it for no reason, it shouldn't be very hard. As far as I know, its just a piece of metal or stone. The schema is about the size of a human fist, so base the hardness and HP off of that.

Oh and tell your DM that I'm sorry and that I sympathize with him.
Edymnion
11-29-04, 06:14 PM Yeah, nothing says they have any form of unusual toughness.
Just shatter whatever its on, and you'll destroy the schema, just like ripping a sheet of paper destroys whats written on it.
Bluebrush
11-29-04, 06:15 PM Aren't they made of adamantine?

It wouldn't be a matter of driving over it in your cart/dinosaur, but it's definitely possible.
grifter100
11-29-04, 06:35 PM If you're gonna destroy it, why bother going on the mission? Just do something else, that way you can still get some treasure out of it.

Because then someone else would be hired to retrieve it. My character is a thief and a mercenary, but he´s not mad. If an artifact that could possibly bring a second Day of Mourning is within his reach, he´ll do anything to get it and keep it from falling into the wrong hands...

Also, what makes you think it has to do with the day of Mourning?

The fact that we where told that it may have something to do with the Day of Mourning makes me think that it may have something to do with the Day of Mourning. ;)

Oh and tell your DM that I'm sorry and that I sympathize with him.
Why is that?

As bluebrush mentioned, I´d imagine it to be at least made out of adamantine...tough to destroy for a level 2-3 adventurer...any ideas on how to do it?
Gurv
11-29-04, 06:50 PM Oh and tell your DM that I'm sorry and that I sympathize with him.

Why is that?
Because you are going in a drection that the adventure will...not expect. But unless you want spoilers (and if you do, you'll have to look elsewhere), just sit back and re-examine your actions.

Now, as far as destroying adamantine objects goes, it ain't easy. You'd need either something else made of adamantine, or something that can deal a lot of damage in a single blow.

Or a shatter spell.
Ch@pel
11-29-04, 06:56 PM Fair enough. I thought it was going to be one of those deals where players are just looking for ways to screw over their DM and ruin his perfectly good adventure path. Sounds like your character has a reasonable motive, so I take it back. And, hey, at least you're going on the mission right?

Anyway, the schema is made of adamantine, and I'd guess it can't be more than an inch thick, so it has hardness 20 and 40 hp.

And good luck destroying that! ;) Maybe rusting grasp could do it. Maybe transmute metal to wood or polymorph any object.
Kid SixXx
11-29-04, 09:49 PM Hi!
We´ve just been instructed to recover a lost schema that might have something to do with the Day of Mourning for a House Cannith heir. Since I trust her about as far as I can toss her (which isn´t very far, since I´m playing a halfling rogue), I want to destroy the schema once we find it.

This is probably your first paying gig.

Why are you intent on brassing off your first client? :P

Especially a member of a Dragonmarked house? :D
DarkerDreams
11-30-04, 01:56 AM having run that adventure I'm gonna have to weigh in with six, before you go out on that limb you might want to make sure the rest of your party's ok being blackmarked by a group that the nations are all vaugely afraid of, and that you're sure you never, ever, ever want a job that stands a chance of paying more than a few coppers.

barring that? turn down the job, some other sucker can get killed in the mournland and the worst that'll happen to you is a mark in your permanent file "not willing to take job" as opposed to "took money and pooched us good- kill immediately."

remember; in eberron they can kill you, then bring you back to have some real fun with you.
DarkerDreams
11-30-04, 02:04 AM oh, and as a bonus? what if they want the schema to undo the day of mourning?

a reasonable theory would be that if it has to do with the mourning, and no one really knows what the mourning was, that finding out what caused it could be part of repairing the damage.

Cannith has no advantage in destroying that much of Khorvaire, they want profit and the dead buy no goods. so, what if you're dooming a serious quest for the solution to the mourning to failure because, in your informed glory, you know best?

perhaps a better idea than backstabbing those who put their trust in you, and justifying it through your "noble purpose," would be to find more information about the job?
nyysjan
11-30-04, 03:35 AM think of it this way "maybe they will learn how to fix mournland"

yeah and next the house vadalis will breed pigs that fly
DarkerDreams
11-30-04, 01:53 PM with the proper economic incentive they might...
what profit is there to creating more days of mourning? how much would the Cyrians give to someone who offered a chance of undoing the day of mourning? Protection to the house if it set up a new creation forge?
Besides, house Cannith lost when Cyre was destroyed- it's made clear in the ECS that they were centered there... it's personell assets may be gone forever, but how much material and knowledge would Cannath regain by being able to retake their old holdings in the mournland? how much political capital would they gain (and how much anguish will it save the creators of the Warforged) if they took the Lord of Blade's 'perfect haven' away?

;-) with the understanding that the whole "fixing the mournland" argument is me playing devil's advocate...
maybe a vadalis outpost has experimented with ways of (games mechanicly) adding the celestial, fendish, or half-dragon template to miscellaneous animals. Having succesfully created winged pigs, monkeys, and hampsters they have shut down the program feeling their creations hold no economic value and the methods used to create them have no practical application the entire project has been ended.
however, if someone want's a novelty, there are flying pigs.
Bluebrush
11-30-04, 02:08 PM how much would the Cyrians give to someone who offered a chance of undoing the day of mourning.

The question would be more: "How much can they give?" considering their land, wealth and capital has been decimated by the mourning.
DarkerDreams
11-30-04, 05:44 PM however undoing the mourning would change all that... cyre sits in the middle of Khorvaire, making it a huge crossroad, it boarders numerous kingdoms, many of whome would rather have a (still weakened) Cyre as a buffer than the monstrosities of the mournland or their opposing neighbors being that much closer...

and, suddenly, this newly reborn "jewel of Galafar" would be in debt to house Cannith. the houses are forbidden by ancient pact from nationbuilding- but Cyre wouldn't be *their* nation. however having a nation that owed it's existance to them, what would be reasonable to expect as concession from the nobles of the land?
Josh Wilhoyte
12-03-04, 05:55 PM Well, it wouldn't be my method of doing it, but I can certainly understand the reasons someone would want to destroy anything having to do with the creation of the Mourning. The schema is just a hunk of adamantine, so it's certainly destroyable, but Lady D'Cannith will never believe you did it on accident. When you see the competition going against you on the quest, you may decide House Cannith is more trustworthy, or you may not. There are certain . . . complications to just destroying the schema. Still, if that's what your character would end up doing it, go for it. Don't worry about all the naysayers who have a problem with it just because you aren't doing what the module wants to you to. Sure, my party handed over the schema, but that doesn't mean yours has to.
grifter100
12-03-04, 08:16 PM Well, it wouldn't be my method of doing it, but I can certainly understand the reasons someone would want to destroy anything having to do with the creation of the Mourning. The schema is just a hunk of adamantine, so it's certainly destroyable, but Lady D'Cannith will never believe you did it on accident. When you see the competition going against you on the quest, you may decide House Cannith is more trustworthy, or you may not. There are certain . . . complications to just destroying the schema. Still, if that's what your character would end up doing it, go for it. Don't worry about all the naysayers who have a problem with it just because you aren't doing what the module wants to you to. Sure, my party handed over the schema, but that doesn't mean yours has to.

Well, I´m not going to change my (character´s) mind because of a couple of posts from people I don´t even know on the internet, especially since I wasn´t even asking for opinions on my characters actions in the first place. ;)

Still, thanks to everyone for replying...DarkerDreams, your visions for House Cannith sound really interesting, but, looking at the alignments of the House Cannith leaders I doubt that would be there motivations when studying the Mourning (not that my character would know this. Although there´s nothing that would point in the direction you describe...I think if my DM was interested in this he would have given us at least some clue).
DarkerDreams
12-04-04, 12:51 AM didn't expect to change minds, just throw some thoughts out.
as for destroying it- don't worry too much: if you pay attention and are really on your toes there's a perfect way to do it handed to you...

as a friendly warning though- you will be thumbing your nose at some serious power doing that.
Beleriphon
12-04-04, 07:11 AM as a friendly warning though- you will be thumbing your nose at some serious power doing that.

For a real world example: Imagine the difference between telling the CIA, "Sorry not interested in a job." and taking the job and then intentionally screwing it up. That is what it will be like to defy a Great House, only about million times worse.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
grifter100 11-29-04, 05:48 PM	Hi! My party is currently playing Shadows of the Last War (so please, don´t spoil me any further). We´ve just been instructed to recover a lost schema that might have something to do with the Day of Mourning for a House Cannith heir. Since I trust her about as far as I can toss her (which isn´t very far, since I´m playing a halfling rogue), I want to destroy the schema once we find it. My question: is there any official or unofficial info on how one would do that? Couldn´t find anything in the ECS... Tia.
Ch@pel 11-29-04, 05:53 PM	If you're gonna destroy it, why bother going on the mission? Just do something else, that way you can still get some treasure out of it. Also, what makes you think it has to do with the day of Mourning? Anyway, if you insist on destroying it for no reason, it shouldn't be very hard. As far as I know, its just a piece of metal or stone. The schema is about the size of a human fist, so base the hardness and HP off of that. Oh and tell your DM that I'm sorry and that I sympathize with him.
Edymnion 11-29-04, 06:14 PM	Yeah, nothing says they have any form of unusual toughness. Just shatter whatever its on, and you'll destroy the schema, just like ripping a sheet of paper destroys whats written on it.
Bluebrush 11-29-04, 06:15 PM	Aren't they made of adamantine? It wouldn't be a matter of driving over it in your cart/dinosaur, but it's definitely possible.
grifter100 11-29-04, 06:35 PM	If you're gonna destroy it, why bother going on the mission? Just do something else, that way you can still get some treasure out of it. Because then someone else would be hired to retrieve it. My character is a thief and a mercenary, but he´s not mad. If an artifact that could possibly bring a second Day of Mourning is within his reach, he´ll do anything to get it and keep it from falling into the wrong hands... Also, what makes you think it has to do with the day of Mourning? The fact that we where told that it may have something to do with the Day of Mourning makes me think that it may have something to do with the Day of Mourning. ;) Oh and tell your DM that I'm sorry and that I sympathize with him. Why is that? As bluebrush mentioned, I´d imagine it to be at least made out of adamantine...tough to destroy for a level 2-3 adventurer...any ideas on how to do it?
Gurv 11-29-04, 06:50 PM	Oh and tell your DM that I'm sorry and that I sympathize with him. Why is that? Because you are going in a drection that the adventure will...not expect. But unless you want spoilers (and if you do, you'll have to look elsewhere), just sit back and re-examine your actions. Now, as far as destroying adamantine objects goes, it ain't easy. You'd need either something else made of adamantine, or something that can deal a lot of damage in a single blow. Or a shatter spell.
Ch@pel 11-29-04, 06:56 PM	Fair enough. I thought it was going to be one of those deals where players are just looking for ways to screw over their DM and ruin his perfectly good adventure path. Sounds like your character has a reasonable motive, so I take it back. And, hey, at least you're going on the mission right? Anyway, the schema is made of adamantine, and I'd guess it can't be more than an inch thick, so it has hardness 20 and 40 hp. And good luck destroying that! ;) Maybe rusting grasp could do it. Maybe transmute metal to wood or polymorph any object.
Kid SixXx 11-29-04, 09:49 PM	Hi! We´ve just been instructed to recover a lost schema that might have something to do with the Day of Mourning for a House Cannith heir. Since I trust her about as far as I can toss her (which isn´t very far, since I´m playing a halfling rogue), I want to destroy the schema once we find it. This is probably your first paying gig. Why are you intent on brassing off your first client? :P Especially a member of a Dragonmarked house? :D
DarkerDreams 11-30-04, 01:56 AM	having run that adventure I'm gonna have to weigh in with six, before you go out on that limb you might want to make sure the rest of your party's ok being blackmarked by a group that the nations are all vaugely afraid of, and that you're sure you never, ever, ever want a job that stands a chance of paying more than a few coppers. barring that? turn down the job, some other sucker can get killed in the mournland and the worst that'll happen to you is a mark in your permanent file "not willing to take job" as opposed to "took money and pooched us good- kill immediately." remember; in eberron they can kill you, then bring you back to have some real fun with you.
DarkerDreams 11-30-04, 02:04 AM	oh, and as a bonus? what if they want the schema to undo the day of mourning? a reasonable theory would be that if it has to do with the mourning, and no one really knows what the mourning was, that finding out what caused it could be part of repairing the damage. Cannith has no advantage in destroying that much of Khorvaire, they want profit and the dead buy no goods. so, what if you're dooming a serious quest for the solution to the mourning to failure because, in your informed glory, you know best? perhaps a better idea than backstabbing those who put their trust in you, and justifying it through your "noble purpose," would be to find more information about the job?
nyysjan 11-30-04, 03:35 AM	think of it this way "maybe they will learn how to fix mournland" yeah and next the house vadalis will breed pigs that fly
DarkerDreams 11-30-04, 01:53 PM	with the proper economic incentive they might... what profit is there to creating more days of mourning? how much would the Cyrians give to someone who offered a chance of undoing the day of mourning? Protection to the house if it set up a new creation forge? Besides, house Cannith lost when Cyre was destroyed- it's made clear in the ECS that they were centered there... it's personell assets may be gone forever, but how much material and knowledge would Cannath regain by being able to retake their old holdings in the mournland? how much political capital would they gain (and how much anguish will it save the creators of the Warforged) if they took the Lord of Blade's 'perfect haven' away? ;-) with the understanding that the whole "fixing the mournland" argument is me playing devil's advocate... maybe a vadalis outpost has experimented with ways of (games mechanicly) adding the celestial, fendish, or half-dragon template to miscellaneous animals. Having succesfully created winged pigs, monkeys, and hampsters they have shut down the program feeling their creations hold no economic value and the methods used to create them have no practical application the entire project has been ended. however, if someone want's a novelty, there are flying pigs.
Bluebrush 11-30-04, 02:08 PM	how much would the Cyrians give to someone who offered a chance of undoing the day of mourning. The question would be more: "How much can they give?" considering their land, wealth and capital has been decimated by the mourning.
DarkerDreams 11-30-04, 05:44 PM	however undoing the mourning would change all that... cyre sits in the middle of Khorvaire, making it a huge crossroad, it boarders numerous kingdoms, many of whome would rather have a (still weakened) Cyre as a buffer than the monstrosities of the mournland or their opposing neighbors being that much closer... and, suddenly, this newly reborn "jewel of Galafar" would be in debt to house Cannith. the houses are forbidden by ancient pact from nationbuilding- but Cyre wouldn't be their nation. however having a nation that owed it's existance to them, what would be reasonable to expect as concession from the nobles of the land?
Josh Wilhoyte 12-03-04, 05:55 PM	Well, it wouldn't be my method of doing it, but I can certainly understand the reasons someone would want to destroy anything having to do with the creation of the Mourning. The schema is just a hunk of adamantine, so it's certainly destroyable, but Lady D'Cannith will never believe you did it on accident. When you see the competition going against you on the quest, you may decide House Cannith is more trustworthy, or you may not. There are certain . . . complications to just destroying the schema. Still, if that's what your character would end up doing it, go for it. Don't worry about all the naysayers who have a problem with it just because you aren't doing what the module wants to you to. Sure, my party handed over the schema, but that doesn't mean yours has to.
grifter100 12-03-04, 08:16 PM	Well, it wouldn't be my method of doing it, but I can certainly understand the reasons someone would want to destroy anything having to do with the creation of the Mourning. The schema is just a hunk of adamantine, so it's certainly destroyable, but Lady D'Cannith will never believe you did it on accident. When you see the competition going against you on the quest, you may decide House Cannith is more trustworthy, or you may not. There are certain . . . complications to just destroying the schema. Still, if that's what your character would end up doing it, go for it. Don't worry about all the naysayers who have a problem with it just because you aren't doing what the module wants to you to. Sure, my party handed over the schema, but that doesn't mean yours has to. Well, I´m not going to change my (character´s) mind because of a couple of posts from people I don´t even know on the internet, especially since I wasn´t even asking for opinions on my characters actions in the first place. ;) Still, thanks to everyone for replying...DarkerDreams, your visions for House Cannith sound really interesting, but, looking at the alignments of the House Cannith leaders I doubt that would be there motivations when studying the Mourning (not that my character would know this. Although there´s nothing that would point in the direction you describe...I think if my DM was interested in this he would have given us at least some clue).
DarkerDreams 12-04-04, 12:51 AM	didn't expect to change minds, just throw some thoughts out. as for destroying it- don't worry too much: if you pay attention and are really on your toes there's a perfect way to do it handed to you... as a friendly warning though- you will be thumbing your nose at some serious power doing that.
Beleriphon 12-04-04, 07:11 AM	as a friendly warning though- you will be thumbing your nose at some serious power doing that. For a real world example: Imagine the difference between telling the CIA, "Sorry not interested in a job." and taking the job and then intentionally screwing it up. That is what it will be like to defy a Great House, only about million times worse.