Destruction of Boromar Clan [Archive] - Wizards Community

Destruction of Boromar Clan [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
yossarius
09-08-06, 11:46 AM I am getting ready to run a series of games for a single player. His half-elf rouge 5th/ assassin 5th wants to destroy the Boromar Clan. I'm trying to devise a series of possible strategies his character could try; one or two of them might aactually be successful, but most won't. The only one I can think of, though, is for him to ally himself with Daask. In time I think Daask will be successful in destroying Boromar, or at least taking over most of there criminal interests, but I'm having trouble seeing this character's role in that.

if anyone has any ideas on that, or if you can see some other possible plan to destroy the Boromars, please add you input. Thanx.
Syltorian
09-08-06, 01:23 PM Hm. Get someone else to do the job for you.

Attempt to kill important leaders of the clan, and make sure to frame some other important people for it. If you are cautious and manipulative enough, the clan might break apart in some kind of civil war. If you cannot reach the leaders to assassinate them, find other ways to make the Boromars believe there are traitors in their midst.

Have them find secret communications to some of their members that seem to come from Dhaask, Phiarlan, the Citadel, or so forth. Just be good at forgery when you do it. Use disguise self spells to act out some of their members appear suspicious. Use Dhaask's supplies of drugs to gain assets in clan Boromar.

Have Dhaask stage crimes against the Watch, the Council, and so forth - but frame Boromar. The halflings have some support in official circles, but if there are limits to what these supporters can accept, especially if their own people are threatened. Conversely, impersonate their supporters and betray them.

Sit back and enjoy the show.
Ricohard_Draconis
09-08-06, 10:41 PM find out that they're cheating on their taxes and nail them on a minor charge.
Edymnion
09-09-06, 12:27 AM You realize that you are essentially asking "How can I let one person destroy the Mafia?". The short answer is that you can't, its too big for one person to screw up. Even if you took down the leaders, more would just rise up to take their place.

The only chance a single person could possibly have is to try and start up a mob war between the Boromar and another group, like the Dhaask. However, the Boromars are much stronger and better equipped, Dhaask wouldn't really stand much of a chance.

Really, his best hope would be to tie the Boromar up in a mob war that would reduce their effectiveness, I don't think they could totally take 'em down though.
yossarius
09-09-06, 10:34 AM You realize that you are essentially asking "How can I let one person destroy the Mafia?". The short answer is that you can't, its too big for one person to screw up. Even if you took down the leaders, more would just rise up to take their place.

The only chance a single person could possibly have is to try and start up a mob war between the Boromar and another group, like the Dhaask. However, the Boromars are much stronger and better equipped, Dhaask wouldn't really stand much of a chance.

Really, his best hope would be to tie the Boromar up in a mob war that would reduce their effectiveness, I don't think they could totally take 'em down though.

I agree. I've also explained to the player that, even if he could destroy the Boromar clan, this would create a huge power vacuum within Sharn's criminal underworld, sparking huge turf wars. He constructed his character's backgground such that he hates the Boromars, and he doesn't much care about the consequences of his actions (an example of an evil character having good intentions if I even saw one.)

I was considering introducing the PC to Savia Potellas (S:Cot pg 108), the councilperson from Lower Menthis, in order to pull him into the tangled web of Sharn politics. Savia would make an excellent patron, and they would seem to be working towards similar goals (or are they? Hmmmmm. /holding pinky finger to corner of mouth).
ArcTan
09-09-06, 02:04 PM You realize that you are essentially asking "How can I let one person destroy the Mafia?". The short answer is that you can't, its too big for one person to screw up. Even if you took down the leaders, more would just rise up to take their place.

The only chance a single person could possibly have is to try and start up a mob war between the Boromar and another group, like the Dhaask. However, the Boromars are much stronger and better equipped, Dhaask wouldn't really stand much of a chance.

Really, his best hope would be to tie the Boromar up in a mob war that would reduce their effectiveness, I don't think they could totally take 'em down though.

On the other hand, a high-level badass PC could certainly *try* to begin a one-man war against the Mafia, even though the results might not be ideal.

That whole idea has been the basis of countless pulpy novels and comic books, after all, everything from The Punisher to Road to Perdition.
Ricohard_Draconis
09-09-06, 02:44 PM take equal parts of the punisher, batman and Elliot Ness and shake well.

and you'll still have problems.
Kid SixXx
09-09-06, 04:30 PM Really, his best hope would be to tie the Boromar up in a mob war that would reduce their effectiveness, I don't think they could totally take 'em down though.

The best question to ask is do you really want to do this.

Given that there are other more vicious gangs in existance in Sharn and that the Sharn Watch is about as corrupt a police force as you can get, Clan Borormar is as close to a buffer between society and brutal crime as you can get.

Clan Borormar keeps the other gangs in check, polices vice better than established law enforcement, and tends to keep a low profile unless provoked.

The thing that should trouble you is if less disciplined, greedier elements of the Clan suddenly take over the leadership hierarchy and become more aggressive.

There are worse things that could happen to Sharn that could come as a result of the removal of Clan Borormar.

Yep, I'm fully aware that I've seen one too many British crime film or Yakuza movie in my time. ;)
yossarius
09-10-06, 03:47 PM Well, the way I see this playing out is that, although I will allow him a small chance of actually accomplishing his goal, it's more likely that he'll be able to rack up some minor victories before the Boromars drop the hammer on him. He could be a thorn in their side for a long time, and they would probably just leave him alone, as they have more pressing matters to attend to. But, as soon as he manages to be a major annoyance, that's when the encounter CRs will jump from 4-5 to 9-12. Still, a spectacular death of a PC is much more fun than an easy victory.
ArcTan
09-10-06, 04:28 PM take equal parts of the punisher, batman and Elliot Ness and shake well.

and you'll still have problems.

The problems are the fun part.

There's no way such a character, no matter how badass he was, could eliminate crime in Sharn. Even making a dent in crime in Sharn is more a matter of long-term politics and economics than it is killing off criminals.

But his irrational crusade *will* lead him to have lots of fun encounters.
Euangelion
09-10-06, 05:58 PM One person can make a difference. The way to get rid of Boromar is to manipulate the other 3 crime syndicates into taking Boromar apart, with an assist from the local authorities. Between Daask, House Tarkanan, and the Tyrants, there's more than enough to take Boromar apart, mainly through clever role-playing with the occassional nasty fight, and more than enough benefit to each crime organization to do so. It might even be said that Boromar's demise is probably inevitable, given enough time. In this situation taking Boromar apart is not like taking out the Mafia (sorry Edy!), it's like several Mafia families taking out one particular family, which does happen. Have fun!
goblin_pride
10-04-06, 03:00 PM you've missed the most obvious, get the PC set up using the leadership feat and begin his own crime syndicate in the bowels of Sharn, it'll lead to all sorts of personal problems when not only the runtlings want his hide
yossarius
10-04-06, 03:29 PM you've missed the most obvious, get the PC set up using the leadership feat and begin his own crime syndicate in the bowels of Sharn, it'll lead to all sorts of personal problems when not only the runtlings want his hide

I don't deny that this strategy could work, but it seems to go against his character's background. He takes his beef with Boromar VERY seriously (as in, "I want to feel their last heartbeat spill over my hands.")
Thramzorean
10-05-06, 12:42 AM The character needs to create weaknesses that other groups can target.
Have the underworld erupt in chaos and mayhem and the Boromors will lose the established status quo deal they have with the city government paving the way for a new force to come in and take over and restore order.
If the character gets the city to actually declare the Boromors outlaws for instance it will be open field day on the clan with no place to hide - that will finish them.
The character can head down a very long and slippery slope and consort with some even bigger power groups, the Lords of Dust, Inspired or otherwise, to see if their goals match and get help to pull the Boromors down.
tuffn00gies
10-06-06, 01:57 PM One thing no one's mentioned yet: The Boromars are one of the Sixty families of Sharn. Taking them down won't be easy since the Boromars and the Watch (and likely the Citadel) will be after him.

Personally, I think it sounds like a brilliant campaign! It'll take careful planning and lots of allies, but it could be done. Should be plenty of opportunity for combat and role-playing. I hope you keep us updated on his progress.
rulvestad
10-09-06, 12:45 PM I'm trying to devise a series of possible strategies his character could try

The question I have is, isn't that the player's job? Seriously, let him devise his strategy, then you just have to react. Be ready with some key NPCs that he will encounter. It shouldn't be too hard to just pick out the ones that have any kind of tie to or interest in the Boromars. Let him taste success for any reasonable idea, but make sure there are lots of consequences to throw at him. Success with an asterisk is a common noir trope and this sounds like an awesome idea for a noir-style game.
yossarius
10-09-06, 03:25 PM The question I have is, isn't that the player's job? Seriously, let him devise his strategy, then you just have to react.

Yes, that would normally be true, but I am dealing with a player with limited Eberron experience. I provided him with half a dozen possible basic strategies to choose from, given the complexity of Sharn's politics, and he chose how he wants to go about it. By way of explanation, think about the movie Sin City, where Marv goes on his quest to find out who killed Goldie before he finally gets to Cardinal Roark. I think it will largely be a question of how well the character (and of course, the player) can cover his tracks as he moves from one operative to the next. I've been busy trying to generate a mountain of information regarding the nuts and bolts of the Boromar Clan, trying to create both legitimate leads and red herrings. We hope to get started Friday the 20th.
AkumaDaimyo
10-09-06, 04:05 PM Is this a one person game or something? Kinda sounds like it so far. I'm thinking he's dead meat. The Boromar Clan is pretty big and very influential. Plus don't they have someone on the City Council? I think he should make a secondary character. :P
goblin_pride
10-09-06, 04:27 PM might want to consider a tertiary character as well
yossarius
10-09-06, 07:22 PM Yes, this is a single character game, but I'm starting him out at a very high level for Eberron (5th lvl rogue / 5th lvl assassin). I'll be starting the encounters at a CR that he should be able to handle, but as the campaign continues it'll get progressively harder. How much harder depends on just how reckless he is. I fully intend to give him a chance to succeed, but it'll be a very remote chance. Mostly, I expect to eventually kill off this character, but not before the player has had a chance to become emotionally attached to it. I know that may sound mean to some people, but personally, my past characters I remember the most was the ones I was attached to that died heroic deaths. And I think that theme fits well into the pulp noir theme.
dmdarkdragon
10-10-06, 03:19 AM All he needs is a mask and a cape and I think he should be set to fight crime in the bowels of Sharn... Did they kill his parents?
AkumaDaimyo
10-10-06, 03:24 AM He would also need to be trained by ninja's. :D I personally like Deadpool but he's sometimes a badguy or just not very concerned with morality but I find him hillarious.
yossarius
10-10-06, 03:14 PM Funny you should ask darkdragon. Although he hasn't supplied me with a complete character history yet, apparently the Boromar did kill his father when he was a child. It seems that his father was a low-level Boromar operative who was some kind of liability, so the Clan had to let him go. The PC has come back for revenge, Inigo Mantoya style. Still, I am hopeful I won't have to remind the player that he isn't Batman.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
yossarius 09-08-06, 11:46 AM	I am getting ready to run a series of games for a single player. His half-elf rouge 5th/ assassin 5th wants to destroy the Boromar Clan. I'm trying to devise a series of possible strategies his character could try; one or two of them might aactually be successful, but most won't. The only one I can think of, though, is for him to ally himself with Daask. In time I think Daask will be successful in destroying Boromar, or at least taking over most of there criminal interests, but I'm having trouble seeing this character's role in that. if anyone has any ideas on that, or if you can see some other possible plan to destroy the Boromars, please add you input. Thanx.
Syltorian 09-08-06, 01:23 PM	Hm. Get someone else to do the job for you. Attempt to kill important leaders of the clan, and make sure to frame some other important people for it. If you are cautious and manipulative enough, the clan might break apart in some kind of civil war. If you cannot reach the leaders to assassinate them, find other ways to make the Boromars believe there are traitors in their midst. Have them find secret communications to some of their members that seem to come from Dhaask, Phiarlan, the Citadel, or so forth. Just be good at forgery when you do it. Use disguise self spells to act out some of their members appear suspicious. Use Dhaask's supplies of drugs to gain assets in clan Boromar. Have Dhaask stage crimes against the Watch, the Council, and so forth - but frame Boromar. The halflings have some support in official circles, but if there are limits to what these supporters can accept, especially if their own people are threatened. Conversely, impersonate their supporters and betray them. Sit back and enjoy the show.
Ricohard_Draconis 09-08-06, 10:41 PM	find out that they're cheating on their taxes and nail them on a minor charge.
Edymnion 09-09-06, 12:27 AM	You realize that you are essentially asking "How can I let one person destroy the Mafia?". The short answer is that you can't, its too big for one person to screw up. Even if you took down the leaders, more would just rise up to take their place. The only chance a single person could possibly have is to try and start up a mob war between the Boromar and another group, like the Dhaask. However, the Boromars are much stronger and better equipped, Dhaask wouldn't really stand much of a chance. Really, his best hope would be to tie the Boromar up in a mob war that would reduce their effectiveness, I don't think they could totally take 'em down though.
yossarius 09-09-06, 10:34 AM	You realize that you are essentially asking "How can I let one person destroy the Mafia?". The short answer is that you can't, its too big for one person to screw up. Even if you took down the leaders, more would just rise up to take their place. The only chance a single person could possibly have is to try and start up a mob war between the Boromar and another group, like the Dhaask. However, the Boromars are much stronger and better equipped, Dhaask wouldn't really stand much of a chance. Really, his best hope would be to tie the Boromar up in a mob war that would reduce their effectiveness, I don't think they could totally take 'em down though. I agree. I've also explained to the player that, even if he could destroy the Boromar clan, this would create a huge power vacuum within Sharn's criminal underworld, sparking huge turf wars. He constructed his character's backgground such that he hates the Boromars, and he doesn't much care about the consequences of his actions (an example of an evil character having good intentions if I even saw one.) I was considering introducing the PC to Savia Potellas (S:Cot pg 108), the councilperson from Lower Menthis, in order to pull him into the tangled web of Sharn politics. Savia would make an excellent patron, and they would seem to be working towards similar goals (or are they? Hmmmmm. /holding pinky finger to corner of mouth).
ArcTan 09-09-06, 02:04 PM	You realize that you are essentially asking "How can I let one person destroy the Mafia?". The short answer is that you can't, its too big for one person to screw up. Even if you took down the leaders, more would just rise up to take their place. The only chance a single person could possibly have is to try and start up a mob war between the Boromar and another group, like the Dhaask. However, the Boromars are much stronger and better equipped, Dhaask wouldn't really stand much of a chance. Really, his best hope would be to tie the Boromar up in a mob war that would reduce their effectiveness, I don't think they could totally take 'em down though. On the other hand, a high-level badass PC could certainly try to begin a one-man war against the Mafia, even though the results might not be ideal. That whole idea has been the basis of countless pulpy novels and comic books, after all, everything from The Punisher to Road to Perdition.
Ricohard_Draconis 09-09-06, 02:44 PM	take equal parts of the punisher, batman and Elliot Ness and shake well. and you'll still have problems.
Kid SixXx 09-09-06, 04:30 PM	Really, his best hope would be to tie the Boromar up in a mob war that would reduce their effectiveness, I don't think they could totally take 'em down though. The best question to ask is do you really want to do this. Given that there are other more vicious gangs in existance in Sharn and that the Sharn Watch is about as corrupt a police force as you can get, Clan Borormar is as close to a buffer between society and brutal crime as you can get. Clan Borormar keeps the other gangs in check, polices vice better than established law enforcement, and tends to keep a low profile unless provoked. The thing that should trouble you is if less disciplined, greedier elements of the Clan suddenly take over the leadership hierarchy and become more aggressive. There are worse things that could happen to Sharn that could come as a result of the removal of Clan Borormar. Yep, I'm fully aware that I've seen one too many British crime film or Yakuza movie in my time. ;)
yossarius 09-10-06, 03:47 PM	Well, the way I see this playing out is that, although I will allow him a small chance of actually accomplishing his goal, it's more likely that he'll be able to rack up some minor victories before the Boromars drop the hammer on him. He could be a thorn in their side for a long time, and they would probably just leave him alone, as they have more pressing matters to attend to. But, as soon as he manages to be a major annoyance, that's when the encounter CRs will jump from 4-5 to 9-12. Still, a spectacular death of a PC is much more fun than an easy victory.
ArcTan 09-10-06, 04:28 PM	take equal parts of the punisher, batman and Elliot Ness and shake well. and you'll still have problems. The problems are the fun part. There's no way such a character, no matter how badass he was, could eliminate crime in Sharn. Even making a dent in crime in Sharn is more a matter of long-term politics and economics than it is killing off criminals. But his irrational crusade will lead him to have lots of fun encounters.
Euangelion 09-10-06, 05:58 PM	One person can make a difference. The way to get rid of Boromar is to manipulate the other 3 crime syndicates into taking Boromar apart, with an assist from the local authorities. Between Daask, House Tarkanan, and the Tyrants, there's more than enough to take Boromar apart, mainly through clever role-playing with the occassional nasty fight, and more than enough benefit to each crime organization to do so. It might even be said that Boromar's demise is probably inevitable, given enough time. In this situation taking Boromar apart is not like taking out the Mafia (sorry Edy!), it's like several Mafia families taking out one particular family, which does happen. Have fun!
goblin_pride 10-04-06, 03:00 PM	you've missed the most obvious, get the PC set up using the leadership feat and begin his own crime syndicate in the bowels of Sharn, it'll lead to all sorts of personal problems when not only the runtlings want his hide
yossarius 10-04-06, 03:29 PM	you've missed the most obvious, get the PC set up using the leadership feat and begin his own crime syndicate in the bowels of Sharn, it'll lead to all sorts of personal problems when not only the runtlings want his hide I don't deny that this strategy could work, but it seems to go against his character's background. He takes his beef with Boromar VERY seriously (as in, "I want to feel their last heartbeat spill over my hands.")
Thramzorean 10-05-06, 12:42 AM	The character needs to create weaknesses that other groups can target. Have the underworld erupt in chaos and mayhem and the Boromors will lose the established status quo deal they have with the city government paving the way for a new force to come in and take over and restore order. If the character gets the city to actually declare the Boromors outlaws for instance it will be open field day on the clan with no place to hide - that will finish them. The character can head down a very long and slippery slope and consort with some even bigger power groups, the Lords of Dust, Inspired or otherwise, to see if their goals match and get help to pull the Boromors down.
tuffn00gies 10-06-06, 01:57 PM	One thing no one's mentioned yet: The Boromars are one of the Sixty families of Sharn. Taking them down won't be easy since the Boromars and the Watch (and likely the Citadel) will be after him. Personally, I think it sounds like a brilliant campaign! It'll take careful planning and lots of allies, but it could be done. Should be plenty of opportunity for combat and role-playing. I hope you keep us updated on his progress.
rulvestad 10-09-06, 12:45 PM	I'm trying to devise a series of possible strategies his character could try The question I have is, isn't that the player's job? Seriously, let him devise his strategy, then you just have to react. Be ready with some key NPCs that he will encounter. It shouldn't be too hard to just pick out the ones that have any kind of tie to or interest in the Boromars. Let him taste success for any reasonable idea, but make sure there are lots of consequences to throw at him. Success with an asterisk is a common noir trope and this sounds like an awesome idea for a noir-style game.
yossarius 10-09-06, 03:25 PM	The question I have is, isn't that the player's job? Seriously, let him devise his strategy, then you just have to react. Yes, that would normally be true, but I am dealing with a player with limited Eberron experience. I provided him with half a dozen possible basic strategies to choose from, given the complexity of Sharn's politics, and he chose how he wants to go about it. By way of explanation, think about the movie Sin City, where Marv goes on his quest to find out who killed Goldie before he finally gets to Cardinal Roark. I think it will largely be a question of how well the character (and of course, the player) can cover his tracks as he moves from one operative to the next. I've been busy trying to generate a mountain of information regarding the nuts and bolts of the Boromar Clan, trying to create both legitimate leads and red herrings. We hope to get started Friday the 20th.
AkumaDaimyo 10-09-06, 04:05 PM	Is this a one person game or something? Kinda sounds like it so far. I'm thinking he's dead meat. The Boromar Clan is pretty big and very influential. Plus don't they have someone on the City Council? I think he should make a secondary character. :P
goblin_pride 10-09-06, 04:27 PM	might want to consider a tertiary character as well
yossarius 10-09-06, 07:22 PM	Yes, this is a single character game, but I'm starting him out at a very high level for Eberron (5th lvl rogue / 5th lvl assassin). I'll be starting the encounters at a CR that he should be able to handle, but as the campaign continues it'll get progressively harder. How much harder depends on just how reckless he is. I fully intend to give him a chance to succeed, but it'll be a very remote chance. Mostly, I expect to eventually kill off this character, but not before the player has had a chance to become emotionally attached to it. I know that may sound mean to some people, but personally, my past characters I remember the most was the ones I was attached to that died heroic deaths. And I think that theme fits well into the pulp noir theme.
dmdarkdragon 10-10-06, 03:19 AM	All he needs is a mask and a cape and I think he should be set to fight crime in the bowels of Sharn... Did they kill his parents?
AkumaDaimyo 10-10-06, 03:24 AM	He would also need to be trained by ninja's. :D I personally like Deadpool but he's sometimes a badguy or just not very concerned with morality but I find him hillarious.
yossarius 10-10-06, 03:14 PM	Funny you should ask darkdragon. Although he hasn't supplied me with a complete character history yet, apparently the Boromar did kill his father when he was a child. It seems that his father was a low-level Boromar operative who was some kind of liability, so the Clan had to let him go. The PC has come back for revenge, Inigo Mantoya style. Still, I am hopeful I won't have to remind the player that he isn't Batman.