Disadvantages and Flaws [Archive] - Wizards Community

Disadvantages and Flaws [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dmsyberpanther
03-19-05, 09:16 PM I really couldn't find anything of this anywhere else, so I thought i would come to the boards.

Has anybody seen this file from game mechanics? Basically, it's for d20 Modern and allows your characters to choose flaws for their characters which gives them flaw points. With the points, they can trade for advantages (ie. powerful ally), 1/8 xp for the next level, skill points, and feats. They all have different costs.

I'm looking for a version or something comparable for my Eberron campaign and I'm finding it sort of difficult to just convert the version for d20 Modern because it's a completely different setting.
Gurv
03-19-05, 09:38 PM Unearthed Arcana has rules for Traits and Flaws for D&D characters. I don't think it's exactly the same, but it sounds similar.

Search for Save-vs-DM's posts. He created some Eberron specific ones, and I think he has links in his sig.
Teron Gorefiend
03-20-05, 08:58 PM Unearthed Arcana's flaw system is pretty simple: choose up to two flaws at character creation (many have requirements to ensure they're only taken by characters who'll suffer a real disadvantage), and get an extra feat per flaw. If you're interested in using them, you should check out UA. I think it's considered Open Gaming Content, so you might be able to get the information without buying the book, if you're so inclined. Also, most issues of Dragon include new flaws in the "Class Acts" section.
Just another user
03-21-05, 03:18 AM There is a product like that from Cryptosnark "book of Distinction and Drawbacks" both for Modern and for DnD/D20. Maybe you can use it.
lokycat
03-21-05, 11:02 AM Unearthed Arcana's flaw system is pretty simple: choose up to two flaws at character creation (many have requirements to ensure they're only taken by characters who'll suffer a real disadvantage), and get an extra feat per flaw. If you're interested in using them, you should check out UA. I think it's considered Open Gaming Content, so you might be able to get the information without buying the book, if you're so inclined. Also, most issues of Dragon include new flaws in the "Class Acts" section.

Yes the Unearthed Arcana has a lot to chuse in Flaws and traits.BUT we played in a Graihawk Campain with the flaws like the book said and we were WAY to tuff for 1 lv.

In the Eberron Campain we startead with ONE flaw and at 5lv we were alaude a new Flaw.
Taking ONE flaw every 5lv's is perfect.We get to have a "benny" at fist Lv and if somthing cool hapends in the game the character culd take a flaw that fits his char.

Hoserule:Lv one Char. have one Flaw for a General Feat.After 5lv char he can take a secon flaw but bos not have to take it AT 5lv.(Something hapends to that char. that "trigers" that flaw).Same for the third at10lv and forth at15lv and so on.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inglish is a second languge & im bad at tipping :P
Gurv
03-21-05, 05:40 PM I went to the source and got the address for Save-vs-DM's website, where he posted the Eberron Traits and Flaws he has created. The direct link to the pfd is: http://evildm.datavortex.net/pdf/feats/EberronFlaws-Traits.pdf

Although I do not use the Traits and Flaws system myself, I think the ones he has created are both balanced and fitting to the setting.
dmsyberpanther
03-21-05, 07:38 PM Thats great everyone. Thanks for the help. They do look pretty balanced and they are very Eberron specific too. Thanks again.
Cloud Divider
03-21-05, 09:21 PM In my opinion, I think an ideal way to handle character disadvantages (etc) is to have the character pick their disadvantages (e.g. "womanizer" or "wanted by the Sharn Watch"). In theory, they could potentially pick as many as they want...though obviously that could be a bit problematic.

Now, the key issue is what these disadvantages buy them:

When these disadvantages come up in play, the character gets an additional Action Point. For the most part, the majority of the responsibility for bringing up the disadvantage lies with the player (IE, if you chose "womanizer" as a defect, I want to see you womanizing...). Naturally, it'd be up to GM approval for the final award of the AP (hitting on the noble's daughter once in a session is good for an AP; hitting on EVERY female character that shows up probably won't earn you more than the one). A little care is required in adjudication, however. If PC A (a very stealthy Rogue jewel-thief) is wanted by the Sharn Watch, but only by his reputation (ie as the "Gilded Phantom") and not his normal identity, he probably shouldn't get a bonus AP for every session he spends in his cover identity... Does that make sense? In other words, the PC should only get the benefit of the flaw if it causes a fairly serious complication in the character's life.

Severe allergy to seafood? Sure. Go ahead. However, unless that disadvantage actually, well, y'know, disadvantages the character in play ("You're invited to a nobleman's dinner party. He's only serving seafood...what do you do, and how do you do it in such a way to not offend your host? Eat it and risk the consequences? Hit up his waitstaff to try and smuggle you in something else?"), it doesn't actually get you anything.

Therefore, the guy who picks "Wanted by the Sharn Watch" can still have said flaw, even in a globetrotting game...but unless it actually comes up, the flaw doesn't do anything.

I figure it would work best if you've got a reasonably good set of players, and you're willing to relinquish a little authority as GM/DM. Sharing the narrative responsibility can bring a LOT of fun to the table... But it's one of those things that REALLY requires the right players.

In the end, it dovetails nicely with the way I've been handling AP in my game, where they can be "earned" by intentionally giving yourself a complication in play (essentially "ad hoc character disadvantages"). So far, it's worked quite well for my group.

Granted, taking things to excess would cause problems - particularly ones that tend to derail campaigns (ie the PC that's hated by everyone, and so forth). But hey, most good things turn bad when taken to excess...

You could detail this idea a bit more, maybe break the disad/bonus into three categories...let's call them Karmic for short. Say, Physical Karma, Social Karma, and Mental (maybe Emotional or Psychological) Karma.

Being allergic to fish would be negative Physical karma; you could then bank 1 AP towards something else Physical (like making a Fort save or jumping across a rooftop).

Being a womanizer would be negative Social Karma. Hit on the nobleman's daughter (...which causes a negative result), and you'd have a single Social AP that you could spend on something else Social in nature (like making a Diplomacy check to convince the Boromar doorman to let you enter the gambling den so you can meet your contact). Womanizing might be considered mental; being "Wanted by the Sharn Watch" (or "Merrix d'Cannith is my personal nemesis") are more obvious Social disadvantages.

Something like that...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dmsyberpanther 03-19-05, 09:16 PM	I really couldn't find anything of this anywhere else, so I thought i would come to the boards. Has anybody seen this file from game mechanics? Basically, it's for d20 Modern and allows your characters to choose flaws for their characters which gives them flaw points. With the points, they can trade for advantages (ie. powerful ally), 1/8 xp for the next level, skill points, and feats. They all have different costs. I'm looking for a version or something comparable for my Eberron campaign and I'm finding it sort of difficult to just convert the version for d20 Modern because it's a completely different setting.
Gurv 03-19-05, 09:38 PM	Unearthed Arcana has rules for Traits and Flaws for D&D characters. I don't think it's exactly the same, but it sounds similar. Search for Save-vs-DM's posts. He created some Eberron specific ones, and I think he has links in his sig.
Teron Gorefiend 03-20-05, 08:58 PM	Unearthed Arcana's flaw system is pretty simple: choose up to two flaws at character creation (many have requirements to ensure they're only taken by characters who'll suffer a real disadvantage), and get an extra feat per flaw. If you're interested in using them, you should check out UA. I think it's considered Open Gaming Content, so you might be able to get the information without buying the book, if you're so inclined. Also, most issues of Dragon include new flaws in the "Class Acts" section.
Just another user 03-21-05, 03:18 AM	There is a product like that from Cryptosnark "book of Distinction and Drawbacks" both for Modern and for DnD/D20. Maybe you can use it.
lokycat 03-21-05, 11:02 AM	Unearthed Arcana's flaw system is pretty simple: choose up to two flaws at character creation (many have requirements to ensure they're only taken by characters who'll suffer a real disadvantage), and get an extra feat per flaw. If you're interested in using them, you should check out UA. I think it's considered Open Gaming Content, so you might be able to get the information without buying the book, if you're so inclined. Also, most issues of Dragon include new flaws in the "Class Acts" section. Yes the Unearthed Arcana has a lot to chuse in Flaws and traits.BUT we played in a Graihawk Campain with the flaws like the book said and we were WAY to tuff for 1 lv. In the Eberron Campain we startead with ONE flaw and at 5lv we were alaude a new Flaw. Taking ONE flaw every 5lv's is perfect.We get to have a "benny" at fist Lv and if somthing cool hapends in the game the character culd take a flaw that fits his char. Hoserule:Lv one Char. have one Flaw for a General Feat.After 5lv char he can take a secon flaw but bos not have to take it AT 5lv.(Something hapends to that char. that "trigers" that flaw).Same for the third at10lv and forth at15lv and so on. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Inglish is a second languge & im bad at tipping :P
Gurv 03-21-05, 05:40 PM	I went to the source and got the address for Save-vs-DM's website, where he posted the Eberron Traits and Flaws he has created. The direct link to the pfd is: http://evildm.datavortex.net/pdf/feats/EberronFlaws-Traits.pdf Although I do not use the Traits and Flaws system myself, I think the ones he has created are both balanced and fitting to the setting.
dmsyberpanther 03-21-05, 07:38 PM	Thats great everyone. Thanks for the help. They do look pretty balanced and they are very Eberron specific too. Thanks again.
Cloud Divider 03-21-05, 09:21 PM	In my opinion, I think an ideal way to handle character disadvantages (etc) is to have the character pick their disadvantages (e.g. "womanizer" or "wanted by the Sharn Watch"). In theory, they could potentially pick as many as they want...though obviously that could be a bit problematic. Now, the key issue is what these disadvantages buy them: When these disadvantages come up in play, the character gets an additional Action Point. For the most part, the majority of the responsibility for bringing up the disadvantage lies with the player (IE, if you chose "womanizer" as a defect, I want to see you womanizing...). Naturally, it'd be up to GM approval for the final award of the AP (hitting on the noble's daughter once in a session is good for an AP; hitting on EVERY female character that shows up probably won't earn you more than the one). A little care is required in adjudication, however. If PC A (a very stealthy Rogue jewel-thief) is wanted by the Sharn Watch, but only by his reputation (ie as the "Gilded Phantom") and not his normal identity, he probably shouldn't get a bonus AP for every session he spends in his cover identity... Does that make sense? In other words, the PC should only get the benefit of the flaw if it causes a fairly serious complication in the character's life. Severe allergy to seafood? Sure. Go ahead. However, unless that disadvantage actually, well, y'know, disadvantages the character in play ("You're invited to a nobleman's dinner party. He's only serving seafood...what do you do, and how do you do it in such a way to not offend your host? Eat it and risk the consequences? Hit up his waitstaff to try and smuggle you in something else?"), it doesn't actually get you anything. Therefore, the guy who picks "Wanted by the Sharn Watch" can still have said flaw, even in a globetrotting game...but unless it actually comes up, the flaw doesn't do anything. I figure it would work best if you've got a reasonably good set of players, and you're willing to relinquish a little authority as GM/DM. Sharing the narrative responsibility can bring a LOT of fun to the table... But it's one of those things that REALLY requires the right players. In the end, it dovetails nicely with the way I've been handling AP in my game, where they can be "earned" by intentionally giving yourself a complication in play (essentially "ad hoc character disadvantages"). So far, it's worked quite well for my group. Granted, taking things to excess would cause problems - particularly ones that tend to derail campaigns (ie the PC that's hated by everyone, and so forth). But hey, most good things turn bad when taken to excess... You could detail this idea a bit more, maybe break the disad/bonus into three categories...let's call them Karmic for short. Say, Physical Karma, Social Karma, and Mental (maybe Emotional or Psychological) Karma. Being allergic to fish would be negative Physical karma; you could then bank 1 AP towards something else Physical (like making a Fort save or jumping across a rooftop). Being a womanizer would be negative Social Karma. Hit on the nobleman's daughter (...which causes a negative result), and you'd have a single Social AP that you could spend on something else Social in nature (like making a Diplomacy check to convince the Boromar doorman to let you enter the gambling den so you can meet your contact). Womanizing might be considered mental; being "Wanted by the Sharn Watch" (or "Merrix d'Cannith is my personal nemesis") are more obvious Social disadvantages. Something like that...