Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Epilepticemu 10-20-05, 12:30 AM	My characters are Aundarians. They served in the last war and now have been doing some missions (and have recently become members of) The Eyes of Aundair. However, there really isn't any draw for them to want to serve the Queen. How can I make them feel nationalistic pull? They should want to serve their Queen without asking about gold (even though it always comes). Now, I gave out the faily lame ass "You all worked together during the last war" as their basic background information. While the players don't have emotional ties to their nation, I feel that the characters would. How can I help bring this out?
Euangelion 10-20-05, 12:41 AM	Allow one of them to be distantly related to the Queen. Uphold the family honor and all that!! Have a top-shelf enemy oppose them simply because they're Aundarian, or have them face persecution for their nationality on a regular basis. Present them with an opportunity to uncover a Emerald Claw or Lords of Dust plot to attack/harm/subvert the hometown of one of the characters. Have Aundarian citizens or others with ties to Aundair support them when they're elsewhere, just because their Aundarian. May be kind of lame, but it's after midnight where I'm at and I'm fading fast...
HappyDragon 10-20-05, 12:49 AM	What about their friends and family and wanting to keep them protected and safe from invaders. Wanting to protect the Aundarian way of life. Wanting fame, prestige and power with their fellow countrymen. Perhaps they have simply bought into the war propoganda machine and siimply don't know any better. Ways to help propogate patriotism could include having a likeable NPC that was a fellow comrade in arms during the war help them out. Maybe one of the PC's home has been particularily ravaged by war and the group decides to help rebuild and prevent any further incusions. Perhaps they were posted along the border with the Eldeen Reaches and have taken it upon themselves to reclaim what is rightfully Aundair's, (be sure to completely play up stereotypes for enemies). All that being said, why do you feel the PCs should have strong emotional ties to their country? They may of served with the army but they could of done it for very mercenary reasons.
Epilepticemu 10-20-05, 01:13 AM	They were born and raised in Aundair, they fought in the war for Aundair, therefore the characters should have a strong attatchment and strong nationality. However, many of these things happened before the PLAYERS started playing the characters (obviously they didn't play during the war). Euangelion did a pretty good job, I think I'll use some of those! Thanks! Any other ideas would be appreciated as well.
ekomega 10-20-05, 01:33 AM	Bring some Eldeen Reaches ties in quests, like going to stop some shifter bandits from the reaches from stealing wine from western Aundair. Play up the antagonism with Breland. Have some Sentinel Marshals, with Brelish Citadel agents in tow, come hassle the PCs about a comrade they knew in the Last War who is now a terrorist against Breland.
Charles Phipps 10-20-05, 01:57 AM	Bah best way to inspire nationalism? Show what utter *@#$% the other nations are.
Siran Dunmorgan 10-20-05, 03:22 AM	Best way to inspire nationalism in the party? Nationalism is the enemy of the Party: the inevitable victory of the proletariat transcends nationalism. The workers and peasants of other nations are not our enemy: they are our natural allies in the struggle against the oppressive aristocratic classes that conspire across national boundaries to suppress the rights of the workers upon whose labor they feed as leeches feed upon the blood of their hosts. Now, are all of your players members of the Party? Have they attended meetings of the local action commitees, or the commisariat? If not, then it seems that they might be losing faith in the inevitable victory of the proletariat, and in the Party as the champion of the proletariat. Remind them of the example of our brothers and sisters of West Aundair, the Eldeen Reaches, who have cast off the shackles of opression and risen to take their place in a land purged of the aristos and their lackeys. The Party seeks nothing less than to spread this example of freedom to eastern Aundair, to all the Five Nations, to Khorvaire, and to all of Eberron. Revolution is inevitable! Rise, brothers! Let the Party lift you to your destiny in the new, glorious workers' paradise! —Siran Dunmorgan P.S. More seriously, the best way to inspire nationalism in the party is to take a two pronged approach: first, enforce the rules about identity and traveling papers when they go abroad, i.e., make sure they're aware that they need their travel and identity papers at every border crossing or port of call. Second, take them away. Have them stolen, lost or destroyed. Finding themselves suddenly bereft of these proofs of national identity, the party will have little choice but to turn to the nearest Aundarian consulate for assistance. The consul—or her staff—are typically there to provide exactly this sort of assistance, but there is nothing like being stranded abroad without travel papers to remind one of what nation one is a citizen. After even one such incident, the party should be happy to identify themselves as Aundairian, and with Aundairian causes and motives.
Ath'kethin 10-20-05, 08:33 AM	How can I make them feel nationalistic pull? They should want to serve their Queen without asking about gold (even though it always comes). While the players don't have emotional ties to their nation, I feel that the characters would. How can I help bring this out? You could just get some better roleplayers, maybe some who understand the idea of ROLE-playing? More seriously, did you just kind of throw the Aundair nationalism bit at them, or did they ask to become part of the Royal Eyes? This is important, because if they wanted to become part of the Aundarian secret service, they should have understood what thet entailed. If you just kind of tossed it at them because you thought it sounded cool, the fault lies more with you. Regardless, keep in mind that if they keep demanding money for doing their duty, or whow similarl disrespect to the crown, thay can always be hanged for treason. Or, if you want to be a bit more gentle with them, have their membership in the Eyes revoked and be sent out in disgrace. I realize that this doesn't help you with your 'inspiring nationalism' bit, but honestly, if they aren't into it they aren't into it. Punish them (in-game) and move on.
garner_adam 10-20-05, 10:27 AM	Charles Phipps brings up a good point. When the team is in Audair make things make sense, seem "good", better and so forth. Then when they travel to a different land such as Karranath make the part they encounter as foreign as it gets. The resulting culture shock will consequently inspire the characters to enjoy their country more. Example Let's say Aundair is very service oriented. When you enter the store some one is there to help you out. The party eventually gets used to the idea of having some one help them. Then in Karranath- Do the exact opposite. The Karranathians see waiting on some one like that as a sign of weakness and when the players ask for help they get "Can't you see it's right there! Just walk on over there and get it! Sheesh!" This counter culture may even seem ridiculous to the players but remember it's from the perspective of Karranathians. They think it's weak to act like that-
Orion Polaris 10-20-05, 10:33 AM	Why SHOULD someone feel nationalism for Aundair? They have a hag queen, whose brothers consort with demons, they host the two houses who muddle the bloodlines the most, they abandoned Western Aundair to the heathens of the forest, and they lost Thaliost to the much superior Thranish forces! Besides, we ALL know that Aurala is actively trying to restart the Last War! Give your loyalty to Thrane, it's much more reliable and pure!
Cloud Divider 10-20-05, 10:57 AM	I think you're going to have a hard time "inspiring" nationalism among your players. If it's something you want to be important, it's worth a brief discussion with your players. Something along the lines of: "Hey guys, one of the themes I was wanting to hit on in my campaign is that of nationalism. What country you're from is a really big deal in Khorvaire. Nationalist conflicts all but override the standard D&D racial conflicts. Elves don't hate Dwarves, if they're both from Aundair. Aundairians hate Thranes, because they had to surrender Thaliost to Thrane at the end of the Last War. And it's a really massive sore spot. Kind of like the rivalry between English and French, or Japanese and Koreans, even today. Now, I'm not REQUIRING your characters to be fanatical patriots. But I want you to think a bit on how nationalistic your character is. If they're patriots, cool. Why? If they're not nationalistic, that's cool too. Why is that?" "As a pop-culture reference, take a look at Captain Malcolm Reynolds from Firefly/Serenity. He started out an incredible patriot, loyal to the Independent cause pretty much to a fault. The War changed things a bit, particularly Serenity Valley. While he's still very much anti-Alliance, he's not exactly pro-Independent anymore, either. He's pretty much apolitical at this point - government by the ungoverned is a particularly bad thing, in his mind. He felt he got screwed over by the Independent leadership as well. However, he's not against the Independent CAUSE. Do you see the complexity here? So you can be an Aundairian patriot and still think Aurala's a twit. You'd just probably want to be very careful who you voice that opinion to." "You guys all fought in the Last War. Do you still trust and believe in Queen and Country? Is your faith in the infallibility and greater good of the Aundairian way a palpable FORCE, nigh unto the faith of a practicing Cleric? Does seeing the standard of Aundair flying from the parapets of the city wall fill your heart with warmth and pride? Do you see it as your honest DUTY to serve your country by whatever means you can?" "I will tell you now, that as a theme and subtext of the campaign, that how you choose to be will affect how things work out in the campaign. How certain people will treat you will very much depend on patriotism/nationalism. As a fellow patriot, an Eye of Aundair may treat you as something closer to an equal; while he may otherwise just see you as a tool to further his agenda if you did not share the same nationalist beliefs." "But again, let me reiterate, that being a hardcore nationalist is NOT the golden path. It won't be any easier, it MAY be more priveledged (though then again, a wealthy revolutionary could provide your bankroll instead), but it will be different. So there is no 'right' answer I'm looking for. I just want to know where your character stands. Is your character one that will raise or cheer a toast of 'God save the King!'?" "And being a nationalist doesn't necessarily mean you're pro-military, either. You could very easily be a merchant that views his economic expansion into other nations as his own way of contributing to the growth of the empire." Take it like a discussion. It's not going to be an absolute on-paper like being Lawful Good.
Chiyo 10-20-05, 11:32 AM	Having served in the war is a double-edge sword too. What if they lost dear ones in the war and blame the queen for drafting their brother or sister forcefully. Maybe they think that Aundair should have been more neutral in the war and if the queen did, maybe their siblings or friends or loved ones wouldn't have died. I think their patriotism depends on deeper things than just having served in the war. As far as our campaign goes, many of those who served in the Last War didn't have a say about it. Take warforged characters, they were bought for that purpose and sent to the frontlines whether they liked it or not ... would you expect them to feel a nationalistic pull from such a participation? It could happen but I wouldn't require it. Besides, nationalistic pull or not, people rendering service for their country are generally very well compensated. Maybe they sound a bit too greedy to ask for rewards upfront but hey, the war is over. Depending on alignment they could fit the mercenary profile and for them compensation would probably be part of any dealings with the Aundarian authorities. They'd show their patriotism by not taking mission just for the highest bidder maybe but requiring them to be altruistic could even be against the good roleplaying of their characters. So, I think it depends on character backstories, and present motivations/alignments rather than just assuming they'll be diehard patriots simply because they were forced to fight in the Last War. That's also where I'd base my motivations. Even say a loved one was killed in the Last War and they sort of blame the Aundarian regime for it. They could find an old journal showing that their loved one was doing undercover work voluntarily and was not killed randomly but assassinated by an agent of another kingdom or separate organization. That should motivate them for any mission that would strike back at the ones responsible. If they were warforged, maybe you could have them encounter other warforged telling them how poorly they've been treated (second class citizens yada yada( in other realms and how they've been happy after moving to Aundair. Or anything else showing that despite having used warforged in the Last War, Aundair was more considerate of them and pushed earlier than anyone else for recognizing their rights to freedom. Finally, I'd say not to focus too much on it. If the players really don't want to do it, it won't be fun for them if you trick/force them into a specific direction. They'll resent you forcing them to be more patriotic than they want their characters to be. So the more subtle the encouragements the better.
Lurkalot 10-20-05, 03:46 PM	The role-playing hooks that you can use have been covered pretty well, but these will only work with very character-orientated players and the ground work has to be started early. Since you mention their continuous demand for money, I'm guessing their not all in it for the deep character motivations. My advice - appeal to their lowest instincts: competitiveness and their need for power, superiority and legitimized violence! :w00t: Try the following: Give them enemies from other nations. I'm sure you're already doing this, but give them enemies your average player hates - ones who get one over on the players initially, a rival NPC party, the rogue that steals a prized magic item or a fortune in gold, anything that will inspire your players to want to kick the kak out of them. Once that fire is lit, it never goes out. Make sure that these enemies are clearly identified with the other nation(s). Once you've roused the players' dislike, it's easy to start drawing the lines in. The rogue that stole their money passes it on to the council of some Karrnathi town, or uses it to buy a prized magic item for a knight of Thrane. The rival NPC party strike into an Aundarean village in return for their actions in a previous adventure. Make sure that everyone knows why. The enemy they have defeated and are pursuing into Karrnath is rescued by the arrival of a Karrnathi military unit. The point is escalation. Give them safety in Aundair. Make sure they have a good spell shop / magic shop / whatever in Aundair. Give them an ally, give them a sexy female rogue who serves the crown that they can get in with. Remember the key to this is appeal to their base instincts and that means power! They aren't going to be motivated by serving Aundair. They will only get protective of things they consider to be theirs. You have to make them think of the country as something that belongs to them. Reward them with a small estate, let them build a tower, give them a favourite bar and a appeal to their need to have people respect them - let the aundarians congratulate, admire, ask for combat lessons from, sleep with the heroic party. Aundair is theirs and it's their home. The point is reinforcement. Role-play up the wazoo. Method act the Thranish Inquistion until your very b*lls feel righteous. Let them feel how cold the Karrnathi soldiers grip is on their arm as the undead troops close in silently around them. There has has has has has to be a difference between their nation and the foreign murderers. The more you can make the world come alive, the easier it will be to get the same in return from your players. This cannot be overdone. Nationalism makes no sense in terms of the metagame, only in terms of the story. The point is reality. I hope those suggestions help. Role-playing hooks are all well and good, but I find a little cycnicism about my player's motives goes a long way. And lets face it, encouraging nationalism in a world torn apart by war demands as much cynicism as you can muster. :weep:
Wolfwood2 10-20-05, 05:08 PM	"On Her Majesty's Secret Service" "Shaken, not stirred." "License to Kill" "Bond. James Bond" Come on, they're secret agents! How cool is that? Throw them up against some rival intelligence agents from other nations. Have Mata Hari sleep with one of them and steal their secrets. On the subject of money.... Okay, let's understand that standard D&D is all about PCs getting money so they can buy/make nifty new magical items and (for wizards) scribe their spell books. It's not that they're greedy; it's just part of the game. Understand that and separate the "getting neat stuff" bit from the "getting paid" bit. When they level up, they suddenly have the opportunity to "requisition equipment" as befits their increasing status. If a spell-slinger wants to create an item, make a magical lab and costly materials available to him, as appropriate to his character level. Then, separate from that, they get paid. (Probably not all that much by PC standards, though I'm sure generous by the standards of people who don't have to buy magical weaponry.) Then separate from that, they have a gold budget for actual missions.
Isran_Imrador 10-20-05, 05:43 PM	Why SHOULD someone feel nationalism for Aundair? They have a hag queen, whose brothers consort with demons, they host the two houses who muddle the bloodlines the most, they abandoned Western Aundair to the heathens of the forest, and they lost Thaliost to the much superior Thranish forces! Besides, we ALL know that Aurala is actively trying to restart the Last War! Give your loyalty to Thrane, it's much more reliable and pure! Man i feel i need to protect Aundair ;) You stired my national feeling for Aundair, maybe i should join the Royal eyes :). Then again my players are aundairians helping thrane out of the mud of the much intisipated Inquisition... ;) Oh and all thouse thing is exaclly why Aundair need nationalist PC restoring their nation :D :) ;) Isran of Fairhaven (or Thaliost)
Salla 10-21-05, 12:22 AM	It's entirely possible that the characters simply may not have a very strong emotional attachment to their home country ... at least, not enough to override any of their other sensibilities. Now, admittedly, if this is the case they may not be good fits for Royal Eyes. Most players I know don't play 'my country, right or wrong' kinds of characters. Just because someone happens to be a rightful government agent/appointee/whatever and he gives an order doesn't mean they're going to be inclined to do so out of any sense of duty; their conscience usually comes first (most of us play Chaotic or Neutral Good). They only participate in missions/fights/wars/whatever if they think it's the right thing to do. Although, of course, the government and the country are two different things ... what's best for Aundair may not be what's best for the Queen, for instance. In Eberron, every government is corrupt ... why support 'em? Just go freelance.
Kaleanae en'i Mori 10-21-05, 01:03 AM	Your campaign is very similar to mine. My players are in the Aundairain military and the year is 993. They will witness the Mourning. then I am going time warp them to the present. So my hope is te first few adventures inthe army fighting Karrnath and Thrane wil instill some of this in them. part of my opening below. Given by their CO. “Men, I guess you’ve been wondering why we and most of the 5th Division have been sent to this Kyber forsaken island? Well, I can now tell you that we are part of an operation to gain some valuable resources for Aundair. We will be taking ship and sailing east to an area of northern Karrnath, which we will then attack the local garrison and seize the resources.” He smiles. “And of course raise merry hell with any Karrnathi that wants a fight!” The troops respond with a roar! “More details will be made clear in time, but for now its time to board your ships.” He stands up in the saddle. “FOR AUNDAIR. FOR VICTORY!” The troops return his call! “FOR AUNDAIR. FOR VICTORY!” “FOR AUNDAIR. FOR VICTORY!” “FOR AUNDAIR. FOR VICTORY!” ****** Each play has been emailed a page with the Aundair emblem as a watermark and the bleow text: All folks of the brightest realm, wave the flag for victory! Build the walls high that none can harm a land so free! Aundair is on the move! Hold your standard high! March on! March on! Aundair strives on until victory is ours! The Aundairian anthem. For the most part of a hundred year the fair nation of Aundair has fought a bloody war against all the other nations. Sharing borders with Thrane and Karrnath have seen Aundair engaged in many battles, both on land and sea. With the loss of nearly two-thirds of its land mass some 40 years ago, what was known as Western Aundair. Many attempts have been made to reclaim this region and all have met with bloody failure. To this day the independent people of the Eldeen Reaches stand resolute against Aundair. Currently Aundair has taken regions of Thrane, but also lost the area of Thaliost, to the Army of the Northern Crusade which as been encamped in the area since 977. The war with Karrnath has seen the destruction of the bridge spanning the Scion Sounds. Naval flotilla’s from both sides ply the waters trying to secure it for their respective nations. Aundair’s once proud navy is but a shadow of its former self. With the loss of the Eldeen, a large portion of the natural materials required for ship builds was also lost. The year is 993, the place Khorvaire Its is Sar, Barrakas 7th 993, you are part of the 1st Battalion, 3rd Fairhaven Infantry Regiment (Dragonhawks) 5th Aundairian Division, 2nd Eastern Aundairian Army, your unit has recently been deployed to Stormhome, Aundair’s primary naval base.