Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Evilmonster 01-03-07, 02:41 AM	Is the MMO anything like the Pen-n-Paper? How Eberron-ish is it? And how much do any of you like it compaired to any other MMOs you may have played?
mhacdebhandia 01-03-07, 08:43 AM	The MMO is clearly based on D&D, but to about the same extent that a game like Neverwinter Nights is - each game takes liberties with the ruleset in the name of playability. D&D Online uses spell points, for instance, so the differences between wizards and sorcerers are lessened. Action points are more like special race or class feats. Each level is broken up into several "advancement points". I don't think it caught the feel of Eberron particularly well. Stormreach appears to be more thoroughly magical than I think it should be: for instance, docks and staircases are supported by magical pillars of force, which just strikes me as out of place even for a boomtown. The look of the city in general was a little too over-the-top fantastic for my tastes. Little details niggle as well. For instance, the first NPC who will resurrect you is a cleric of the Silver Flame - and yet a) he'll resurrect anyone, regardless of faith and b) Faiths of Eberron clarifies that the Church of the Silver Flame does not believe in resurrecting the dead - the wicked should stay in Dolurrh and the virtuous should not be denied their merger with the Silver Flame itself. The developers didn't have access to that book, of course, but it's always been the case that the religions of Eberron only use their magic on behalf of the faithful. Given that later it's explained that the Silver Flame is working with House Jorasco, why couldn't they have simply had Jorasco being the ones resurrecting PCs alone? Easier to state that the Jorasco enclave in Stormreach has an altar of resurrection than to subvert the way religion works. Likewise, the first paladin trainer you deal with in Stormreach is a warforged. Now, it's not impossible to encounter a warforged with religious faith, but I found it inappropriate that the first paladin you encounter was a warforged. Hell, the sewer system was a little too modern, with metal pipes and valves and the like. I just found the D&D Online vision of the setting too inconsistent with my impressions from the real setting materials.
Logos7 01-03-07, 09:51 AM	II only played the demo and DDO is a very preety game, that said it feels to me that it's like a computer game trying really hard to seem like pen and paper and failing miserably (at being fun) for either. THe Trial should still be up give it a try before you buy would be myhearty suggestion. As for critic, i can understand why they tried to keep thing's simple, but certain things really irked me ( All clerics appeared to be of the silver flame or nutty, im talking sprites more than story here, the reserrect system annoyed me a bit , why not House Jorasco?, the little 'floaty' effect, the fact i'm surposed to think killing kobolds is a great original idea or something like that [ I can almost forgive that for clasicness but hey after you've killed 200 of the little guys you almost feel bad for them) The Lack of Advancement early and late in the game is another thing that really irked me, the level 'points' dont make up for it nor does that fact that level 1 is really more like level 1.5 or any of that , i enjoy getting levels and that lack of honest to goodness levels in this game really irked me Logos
mhacdebhandia 01-03-07, 06:19 PM	Easier to state that the Jorasco enclave in Stormreach has an altar of resurrection than to subvert the way religion works. Quoting myself to add: Secrets of Xen'drik, page 16. They do have an altar of resurrection, as well as Alhaura d'Jorasco, a 9th-level cleric who can cast raise dead.
cancerousmango 01-03-07, 08:46 PM	It sucks.
Edymnion 01-03-07, 09:09 PM	Quoting myself to add: Secrets of Xen'drik, page 16. They do have an altar of resurrection, as well as Alhaura d'Jorasco, a 9th-level cleric who can cast raise dead.To bad that neither would actually work reliably. Check the conditions that have to be met for any kind of ressurection magic to function, and then check the planar traits for Dolurrh. Entrapping. It says right in the planar description that anyone in Dolurrh no longer desires to return home. Raise Dead and similiar have the clause that the soul must be willing to return before the spell works. Whoops, by RAW none of the Raise Dead type spells work in Eberron! Yay! :D At best, the soul would have a Will save to make to try to overcome the Entrapping property, which still makes raise dead spells chancy at best.
mhacdebhandia 01-03-07, 09:34 PM	Sure, but that's a concession you have to make in order to have an MMO people will want to play: there has to be a way to bring the dead back to life. All I'm saying is that there's a much better way to do it than the path they chose, if you're at all interested in maintaining the right feel for the setting. Edited to add: I don't agree with your interpretation of Dolurrh's effect upon the souls of the dead, mind you, but it's a side issue at best.
Nived 01-03-07, 11:25 PM	I play DDO, I happen to like it. Its far from perfect, you have to swallow a lot of house rules, but it's alright. As for the resurrection thing? Yeah, that's completely screwy, but honestly a permideath MMO would not be marketable. If you take the time to read your dialogue conversations with NPCs on your way into and out of quests you'll find it has a pretty darn good Eberron feel to it. Unfortunately most other players you meet will blow through the dialogue options and have little to no idea what the mission is actually about. Druids, Monks, and Artificers aren't in, there's no crafting system. Half orcs, Half Elves, and Gnomes got left out while they made Drow playable... If you actually know anything about the setting you'll have to hear people whine about how 'wrong' things are because they're forgotten realms fanboys. You'll also have to listen to how a Warforged Titan is a battletech rip off. 90% of Stormreaches problems could by solved by cremation. Also the sewers are part of the ruins from the Age of Giants... they used pipes, oh well. *Edit and for some reason I feel I should mention the Delera's tomb quests are narrated by Gary Gygex... I respect the man... but man does it feel like he's taunting you... because he is...
Kensan_Oni 01-04-07, 01:15 AM	*Edit and for some reason I feel I should mention the Delera's tomb quests are narrated by Gary Gygex... I respect the man... but man does it feel like he's taunting you... because he is... You HAVE played a Gygex module, haven't you? Tomb of Chuckles? Temple of Elemental Evil? Keep on the Borderlands? Yes.. he taunts you. He's an evil GM with no sense of fair play. Yep... there's our Gary. Gotta love him.
Kinger 01-04-07, 05:57 PM	I played DDO and enjoyed my time with it. However, I enjoyed it mostly because of the people I played alongside. If you were to start playing DDO, I recommend playing alongside some friends. Just as I've had difficulty with pick-up games of pen-and-paper D&D, I had difficulty with the "find-a-party" system DDO employs. That being said though, you might find it difficult to justify paying a monthly fee to essentially play Eberronian Neverwinter Nights with your friends. I played for a few months and enjoyed my time. I'll probably pick it up again in a few more months when some more content has been added so I can go through that too. My problems with DDO were the same ones I have with most MMOs. Foremost was the overall feeling of futility. In table-top D&D, it's possible that your actions have an actual effect on the world. The party I DM for example accidentally started a goblin riot in the Cogs and I've included ramifications for that. However, in DDO (and City of Heroes, and WOW I expect) there isn't that sense of accomplishment. Wow, you cleared out that infestation of kobolds in the sewers? Great! They'll be gone forever! Or, until you want to do that quest again. You do? Oh, okay, they're back. Go clear it again! Mild spoiler regarding a quest that perfectly illustrates my point: If you've played DDO, chances are you've dealt with that series of quests in the Catacombs for the Silver Flame. You know, the one with the asylum, the zombies, that crazed girl and the Duality thing. The quest culminates with a confrontation with the Archbishop of the Silver Flame, who had been possessed by the wraithly crazy girl, or something. You kill him. That's right, you kill him. The Archbishop. Of the Silver Flame. And nobody really cares. There's no ramifications, no "Oh my god! We need a new Archbishop!", no turmoil caused by the essential decapitation of the Silver Flame's beauracracy in Stormreach, nothing. You can even run through the quest again and kill him again. Kinda takes you out of the moment, you know? Similarly, the voice-chat system implemented is both brilliant and harmful at the same time. It allows instant communication with anybody you happen to party with, not just your bestest buds on TeamSpeak. However, it hampers the roleplaying experience when the hulking juggernaut of a Warforged asks with a twelve-year-old's prepubescent voice if you wanted to run Waterworks again. One of the better things going for DDO are the quests, though, I'd think. Sure, there's the occasional "go here and kill this many of those" quests, or "bring me this from there" quests," but they're much more detailed and immersive than wandering into a field and killing boars. There are traps, secret doors, scripted events, and all sorts. They feel like honest-to-goodness dungeon crawls with skill-checks, tactical use of the environment, etc, not just Diablo-esque wide hallways with zombies. Sure, if you strip away the flavor they're really just like any other game's quests, but the flavor's what makes them good. AND, none of the quests require you to wait around for hours, hoping for boars to spawn so that you can kill them and loot their entrails 5% of the time, 20 times. So there you have my opinion. I found DDO fun for... 3 or 4 months, I think, playing in the evening for a few hours. It didn't consume my life like I've heard WOW can do, so if you're looking for a new addiction and find cocaine too dangerous, DDO isn't likely to do it for you, I wouldn't think. However, I enjoyed my time there, and will probably go back at some point. I've got other stuff to play at the moment, though. If you see a Warforged Wizard named Librarian running around and actually reading what NPCs have to say, give a wave. That's me.
mhacdebhandia 01-04-07, 06:22 PM	As for the resurrection thing? Yeah, that's completely screwy, but honestly a permideath MMO would not be marketable. I have no problem with the game allowing "free" resurrection. My only problem is that churches are involved, which seems very off to me. It feels like they've written the churches in to that role because people unfamiliar with Eberron expect priests to be raising the dead. I don't think that's a very good reason, you know? Also the sewers are part of the ruins from the Age of Giants... they used pipes, oh well. Yeah, the sewers just seemed too out of step with the world, to me. Of course, so did the whole damn city here and there.
DyloniusFunk 01-05-07, 12:20 AM	I played DDO and enjoyed my time with it. However, I enjoyed it mostly because of the people I played alongside. If you were to start playing DDO, I recommend playing alongside some friends. Just as I've had difficulty with pick-up games of pen-and-paper D&D, I had difficulty with the "find-a-party" system DDO employs. That being said though, you might find it difficult to justify paying a monthly fee to essentially play Eberronian Neverwinter Nights with your friends. I played for a few months and enjoyed my time. I'll probably pick it up again in a few more months when some more content has been added so I can go through that too. My problems with DDO were the same ones I have with most MMOs. Foremost was the overall feeling of futility. In table-top D&D, it's possible that your actions have an actual effect on the world. The party I DM for example accidentally started a goblin riot in the Cogs and I've included ramifications for that. However, in DDO (and City of Heroes, and WOW I expect) there isn't that sense of accomplishment. Wow, you cleared out that infestation of kobolds in the sewers? Great! They'll be gone forever! Or, until you want to do that quest again. You do? Oh, okay, they're back. Go clear it again! I've played a lot of World Of Warcraft and i agree that you can't really immerse yourself in w world where nothing changes. The best you can do is pretend that the world changes for your character and just ignore the fact that you are helping a guild mate do a quest you just did the other day. It gets really funny when your dealing with end game stuff, especially the turn in quests for the heads of major bosses such as Rend Blackhand. I imagine the exhcnage goes something like this Horde Warrior: "Mighty Warchief, i bring you a token of my honor and loyalty to the Horde. I present the fruits of my labors, the vile head of your arch enemy...." Thrall: 'The Head of Rend Blackhand?" HW: "Ummmm, yeah pretty much:confused: " T: ":waits: I don't have all day just put it on the table with the rest of them"
Fallenangel359 01-09-07, 12:25 AM	to be honest, I played it for a couple months, and I really liked the game... It had a nice twitchyness to it. Someone throws a scorching ray... there is no reflex save, you move out of the way, and it misses.
TurbineJim 01-25-07, 11:42 AM	Thanks for the great feedback! While we patrol our forums for feedback very regularly, I wanted you all to know that I still stalk the halls of the Wizards community as well. Yes, there is lots of great stuff coming out for DDO, and we've been adding new content each month. This month saw the addition of Litany of the Dead, Part 2. Next month sees a brand new enhancement system...
Nived 01-26-07, 12:06 AM	Well that's all well and good... But when is The Twelve enclave going to finally open?:D
Evilmonster 01-26-07, 12:20 AM	Maybe when I can play a shifter druid. Or a Kalashtar psion. Or even something way out there like a halfling barbarian. Then maybe I'll take a look. Don't suppose any ones heard anything about any of that being added?
Nived 01-26-07, 12:28 AM	Halflings and barbarians have been in since launch. The other stuff... eh...
Evilmonster 01-26-07, 03:17 PM	So it would be fair to say that it is a fair to good MMO. But only a so-so D&D game and a "meh" take on Ebberon?
mhacdebhandia 01-26-07, 05:38 PM	That strikes me as accurate. I would have had a lot more fun had I not naturally compared it to the real Eberron setting as I played, and found it lacking. A bad adaptation of, let's say, the Scarred Lands from Sword & Sorcery Studios wouldn't have bothered me so much, simply because I don't know much about that setting.
cancerousmango 01-27-07, 07:53 PM	So it would be fair to say that it is a fair to good MMO. But only a so-so D&D game and a "meh" take on Ebberon?No. It's a bad game. Period.
Kassil 01-27-07, 08:35 PM	I bought it. Installed it. Tried to play it. It has the dubious honor of having been the only game that, having tried twice in order to make sure it wasn't just a bad first effort, I uninstalled within 12 hours both times. Including patch time. I have a fairly decent system; it can run EQII at medium-to-high levels without lagging visually. And yet DDO made my video jerk and stutter like I was playing the Matrix Online. The party pick-up system is an irritation at best and an open invitation to disaster at worst. I can't say much for the later sections, but limiting it to Stormreach-and-environs robs a lot of what makes Eberron feel so cool, for me at least. While I recognize that every game has adherents, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
Cabral 01-28-07, 01:53 AM	I tried it for the full trial period. I found it fun. There seemed to lag spots in certain areas which can cause you to die from falling damage or drowning. The docent system was wierd; when you plugged one in they turned you into a warforged neon spandex hairband warrior. Game depth probably is comprable to crossing EQ2 and City of Heroes favoring CoH a bit. Like many MMOs, there is a need for groups for certain tasks and, IIRC, you actually can't solo or duo the game. It was a fair game. I liked it better than my wife did. I would reccomend anyone give it a try and downloading the free trial.
Nived 01-28-07, 10:24 AM	Actually they've added a lot of solo content around low level (currently 1-4 has a certain amount of soloable content... next update says they'll be expanding the soloable content to about level 6) But D&D is at its core a group game so yeah you need a group most of the time.
TurbineJim 01-29-07, 11:13 AM	I have a fairly decent system; it can run EQII at medium-to-high levels without lagging visually. And yet DDO made my video jerk and stutter like I was playing the Matrix Online. The party pick-up system is an irritation at best and an open invitation to disaster at worst. I've got an nVidia 6600 GT and the game runs fairly smooth on my system. The last nVidia card I had was an overclocked one, and that was a complete disaster. Choppy and overheating, but there were many reports on the card on the web. That card worked fine on other games, but DDO can be pretty demanding graphics-wise and the overclocked chip couldn't hack it. We've recently redone the social panel (which includes LFG and friends), and it makes more sense now. More additions are planned for the social panel as well...