Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JiCi 07-02-06, 05:08 PM	You know, the infamous war between demons and devils. Does it exist into the Eberron setting ?
(Psi)SeveredHead 07-02-06, 05:38 PM	You know, the infamous war between demons and devils. Does it exist into the Eberron setting ? You mean the Blood War. (The Brood War is a cool video game.) In a way, it does. There's a plane (I forget which one) where lawful celestials face off against demons and devils in what I guess is a three-way war. However, the big names are probably different. (There might not be an Asmodeus, but there may be a [literal] Big Bad Evil Thing pulling the strings.)
Azazyll 07-02-06, 05:43 PM	I don't want to be a nitpicker, but I've always seen it called the Blood War. When I first saw the thread I thought of the expansion to starcraft! In a sense it does, on Shavarath (which I have probably just mispelled, due to my arrogance). But they added Archons into the mix. But Keith has commented on this baatezu/tanar'ri issue before, speficially on the issue that they are spread all over the place. Note that balors and pit fiends are both native to Fernia. I don't think he came up with a definitive answer, but check the AKB compilation. I personally don't see the blood war as extending past Shavarath, since outerplanar connections appear to be weak in Eberron. Also, since they've explained the origins of the Blood War in Hordes of the Abyss as very "Great Wheel" cosmology-specific, I don't see there being a reason for it beyond Shavarath. But then, we still don't know why there's a Blood War in Faerun, either.
Sarlax 07-02-06, 05:49 PM	In the Great Wheel cosmology, the baatezu and tanar'ri battle both for ideology and for domination of the Lower Planes. If either side withdrew, the enemy would use the opportunity to crush them. The Eberron cosmology is much different. While it might look similar in Shavarth, the outsiders of the 13 outer planes are manifestations of ideas in a way that Great Wheel outsiders aren't. In the Great Wheel, tanar'ri battle baatezu so they can rule the fiendish planes and eventually conquer the multiverse. In Eberron, the fiends and archone wage war because it is within their essential nature to do so.
JiCi 07-02-06, 05:50 PM	Oops, my bad. I knew something was wrong in the title. So it's possible to encounter both a demon and a devil, working together... right ? or they're still at each others throats ?
DBlizzard 07-02-06, 07:52 PM	Oops, my bad. I knew something was wrong in the title. So it's possible to encounter both a demon and a devil, working together... right ? or they're still at each others throats ? Possible, yes. One thing to remember is the whole fiend bit is very amorphous in Eberron. All devils aren't tied to one plane, and the same with demons. In fact, quite a few of them can be native to Eberron (usually members of the Lords of the Dust). It gives DMs a lot of flexibility.
Kid SixXx 07-02-06, 08:57 PM	One thing to remember is the whole fiend bit is very amorphous in Eberron. All devils aren't tied to one plane, and the same with demons. In fact, quite a few of them can be native to Eberron (usually members of the Lords of the Dust). Indeed. Arguably the relationship between demons & devils is just as adversarial as it ever was. However, the defining war that set the relationships in the cosmos is probably the war between the Dragons & Fiends in the Age of Demons, not necessarily the Blood War. As a result, devils & demons are probably more likely to team up & destroy a common foe, before resorting back to their former hostilities. And as always, power and promises of power make strange bedfellows. The Lords of Dust is a fine example of grudging cooperation between nether forces, with devils (the pit fiend, Korliac for example) and demons (the succubus assassin, Thelestes) thrown in for good measure.
ArcTan 07-02-06, 09:26 PM	Oops, my bad. I knew something was wrong in the title. So it's possible to encounter both a demon and a devil, working together... right ? or they're still at each others throats ? It's implied that, unlike other settings, demons and devils might team up against archons, and archons might team up with either side against the third. Alliances on Shavarath are constantly shifting.
Turgan_the_Mage 07-03-06, 04:56 AM	There is a feat in FC:HOA called Blood War Conscript used for demons and mortals fighting in the war against Devils. I have been able to use it Eberron by having a group of soldiers being taken to the plane of War (i have given up spelling the name) fighting on the side of demons learning skills against devils and archons so in my mind the Blood War is still going on but its is a 3-way battle on an endless battlefield, and the winner gets to invade Eberron. My campaign uses the evil mastermind theme with a lord of Dust being released from his eternal prison to build a machine that draws the war onto the material plane and the other planes of exsistence thus dooming the whole exsistence to an eternity of war. *insert evil and demonic and laughing*