Double wealth if you make your own gear? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Double wealth if you make your own gear? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
itraylor
08-28-06, 06:03 AM If a character gets to make their own equipment does this mean that they can essentially have more magical items than other characters? I don’t have my books in front of me but say ‘said item’ had a market price of 10,000 GP but only cost 5,000 GP to make and say ‘said characters’ have a GP limit of 250,000 GP. Essentially a character buying his gear at market price would have just that, but a character making his own equipment may have 400,000-500,000 GP. Am I right or not? Where does the extra money go?
Save-vs-DM
08-28-06, 06:12 AM Are you talking about making a starting character above first level? If so, then there are really no hard and fast rules. The DMG doesn't give you any discount for buying equipment if you have the item creation feats. This is to maintain character balance. However, it's a bit unfair to artificers and crafters, so it can make them a bit poorer than they might otherwise be.

One thing I would recommend if you are starting characters above first level, allow characters with the appropriate item creation feat to buy magical items they could create (meaning they meet all the prerequisites) at 3/4 the normal cost. This way a character isn't horribly over-equipped, but they do have a small advantage.

If your question was simply one of "can someone have more equipment than their suggested wealth per level, then the answer is yes. It is entirely possible for an artificer or item creator to "Craft themselves ahead of the curve" by making all their own items.

Hope this was helpful.

Cheers,
Save vs DM
ArcTan
08-28-06, 06:14 AM XP cost. If he makes that much stuff, he's likely to fall a level behind his buddies, which should balance out the factor of having more stuff.

Also, time. He shouldn't be *able* to make that much stuff if the DM is tightly managing the timetable the party has in which to make things.

Also note that it's more efficient for him to make things for the rest of the party as well as himself, as you get more bang for your buck by filling in the little holes in everyone's class abilities than continuing to optimize one single character. So the impact of this isn't quite so unfairly stacked toward the item crafter.
itraylor
08-28-06, 06:16 AM Helpful indeed! I was basically just wondering if there was a hard rule against it. I know the wealth guidelines are just that, guidelines, but you answered it perfectly as far as crafting ahead of the curve goes. Thanks.
itraylor
08-28-06, 06:20 AM Well for an Artificer with his reserve XP pool and ability to re-fill it and the use of a Dedicated Wright I was thinking that time and XP wouldn’t be such an issue but the point is noted. As far as crafting for others I would try to convince my DM to consider the XP sharing option of creation…so the character in question could pay for their own gear basically. It seems fair to me.
PowerPlay
08-28-06, 09:10 AM Actually, you would have more than double the wealth but you would take a significant hit to XP. Your wealth would be equivalent to -

X/.375

Where X = starting wealth

So for 250,000gp your starting wealth would be (theoretically) 666,667 gp (with artisan bonus).

Now the XP you would have to pay for said gp would be 20,000 XP (rounded up, with appropriate feats) and it would take you 500 days to complete (about a year and a half, rounded up, with appropriate feats).

The resulting game, from experience, is not fun.

Your DM will teleport you into a pool of lava and your crap will melt and then you'll feel pretty stupid when your seven fully charged staves of power explode.

I like Save vs DM's 3/4ths purchasing power method, which brings your approximate wealth to 333,334 gp with appropriate feats.

However, if you really are that high of a level and playing and optimized blastificer your DM better be ready to dish out serious cheese or face some interesting challenges in challenging your character.

Certain DMs have no problem with this, but be sure to speak with your DM regarding what style of play is best for the group so that your DM isn't driven to smoking, drinking, and neurotically posting on forums.

-PowerPlay
(Psi)SeveredHead
08-28-06, 10:43 AM You pay 70% of the cost, assuming you're not an Artificer and don't have Magical Artisan. 50% of the base gp cost, the other 20% simulates the XP to gold ratio. (You can't actually spend XP before the game starts. This does funny things to characters who want to start with Permanencied spells.)

If you make your gear after the game starts, then you pay 50%, plus the XP cost.
cancerousmango
08-28-06, 04:12 PM Check out the Daughters of Sora Kell thread to see what happens when a party has an artificer in it.
DragonWatcher
08-28-06, 04:30 PM Check out the Daughters of Sora Kell thread to see what happens when a party has an artificer in it.

... and you allow them free access to all splatbooks, and give them insane amounts of cash.

Artificers are not gamebreaking unless you give them near unlimited resources of time, cash, and spell/item access.
cancerousmango
08-28-06, 08:41 PM ... and you allow them free access to all splatbooks, and give them insane amounts of cash.

Artificers are not gamebreaking unless you give them near unlimited resources of time, cash, and spell/item access.
Yes yes yes. Thanks for pointing out that I'm a retard. (http://www.bigcatrescue.org/images/WhiteTigerDeformed4.jpg)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
itraylor 08-28-06, 06:03 AM	If a character gets to make their own equipment does this mean that they can essentially have more magical items than other characters? I don’t have my books in front of me but say ‘said item’ had a market price of 10,000 GP but only cost 5,000 GP to make and say ‘said characters’ have a GP limit of 250,000 GP. Essentially a character buying his gear at market price would have just that, but a character making his own equipment may have 400,000-500,000 GP. Am I right or not? Where does the extra money go?
Save-vs-DM 08-28-06, 06:12 AM	Are you talking about making a starting character above first level? If so, then there are really no hard and fast rules. The DMG doesn't give you any discount for buying equipment if you have the item creation feats. This is to maintain character balance. However, it's a bit unfair to artificers and crafters, so it can make them a bit poorer than they might otherwise be. One thing I would recommend if you are starting characters above first level, allow characters with the appropriate item creation feat to buy magical items they could create (meaning they meet all the prerequisites) at 3/4 the normal cost. This way a character isn't horribly over-equipped, but they do have a small advantage. If your question was simply one of "can someone have more equipment than their suggested wealth per level, then the answer is yes. It is entirely possible for an artificer or item creator to "Craft themselves ahead of the curve" by making all their own items. Hope this was helpful. Cheers, Save vs DM
ArcTan 08-28-06, 06:14 AM	XP cost. If he makes that much stuff, he's likely to fall a level behind his buddies, which should balance out the factor of having more stuff. Also, time. He shouldn't be able to make that much stuff if the DM is tightly managing the timetable the party has in which to make things. Also note that it's more efficient for him to make things for the rest of the party as well as himself, as you get more bang for your buck by filling in the little holes in everyone's class abilities than continuing to optimize one single character. So the impact of this isn't quite so unfairly stacked toward the item crafter.
itraylor 08-28-06, 06:16 AM	Helpful indeed! I was basically just wondering if there was a hard rule against it. I know the wealth guidelines are just that, guidelines, but you answered it perfectly as far as crafting ahead of the curve goes. Thanks.
itraylor 08-28-06, 06:20 AM	Well for an Artificer with his reserve XP pool and ability to re-fill it and the use of a Dedicated Wright I was thinking that time and XP wouldn’t be such an issue but the point is noted. As far as crafting for others I would try to convince my DM to consider the XP sharing option of creation…so the character in question could pay for their own gear basically. It seems fair to me.
PowerPlay 08-28-06, 09:10 AM	Actually, you would have more than double the wealth but you would take a significant hit to XP. Your wealth would be equivalent to - X/.375 Where X = starting wealth So for 250,000gp your starting wealth would be (theoretically) 666,667 gp (with artisan bonus). Now the XP you would have to pay for said gp would be 20,000 XP (rounded up, with appropriate feats) and it would take you 500 days to complete (about a year and a half, rounded up, with appropriate feats). The resulting game, from experience, is not fun. Your DM will teleport you into a pool of lava and your crap will melt and then you'll feel pretty stupid when your seven fully charged staves of power explode. I like Save vs DM's 3/4ths purchasing power method, which brings your approximate wealth to 333,334 gp with appropriate feats. However, if you really are that high of a level and playing and optimized blastificer your DM better be ready to dish out serious cheese or face some interesting challenges in challenging your character. Certain DMs have no problem with this, but be sure to speak with your DM regarding what style of play is best for the group so that your DM isn't driven to smoking, drinking, and neurotically posting on forums. -PowerPlay
(Psi)SeveredHead 08-28-06, 10:43 AM	You pay 70% of the cost, assuming you're not an Artificer and don't have Magical Artisan. 50% of the base gp cost, the other 20% simulates the XP to gold ratio. (You can't actually spend XP before the game starts. This does funny things to characters who want to start with Permanencied spells.) If you make your gear after the game starts, then you pay 50%, plus the XP cost.
cancerousmango 08-28-06, 04:12 PM	Check out the Daughters of Sora Kell thread to see what happens when a party has an artificer in it.
DragonWatcher 08-28-06, 04:30 PM	Check out the Daughters of Sora Kell thread to see what happens when a party has an artificer in it. ... and you allow them free access to all splatbooks, and give them insane amounts of cash. Artificers are not gamebreaking unless you give them near unlimited resources of time, cash, and spell/item access.
cancerousmango 08-28-06, 08:41 PM	... and you allow them free access to all splatbooks, and give them insane amounts of cash. Artificers are not gamebreaking unless you give them near unlimited resources of time, cash, and spell/item access. Yes yes yes. Thanks for pointing out that I'm a retard. (http://www.bigcatrescue.org/images/WhiteTigerDeformed4.jpg)