dragon marks [Archive] - Wizards Community

dragon marks [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Olidammara
03-23-07, 11:32 PM so what's the deal with dragon marks? i heard from someone that they're like x-men powers, you're sort of born with them. is taht true, or are they more like magic tattoos that you can have added to your character? can you have multiple? i know there are least, lesser, etc. can you upgrade?
Kensan_Oni
03-24-07, 02:32 AM Dragonmarks are an event that is unique to Korbarre of Eberron. The Dragonmarked are people who are born of the classic D&D races (The PH races) that seem to be important to the Draconic Prophecy. They manifast as tatoo's when their power is activated. No one is completely sure why some people get them and others don't. Those that inherit non-abberant dragonmarks are often incorperated into the Dragonmark guilds. The Abberant marks are not as well understood, and some are feared, as the war of the mark destroyed the House of Death, and Abberant marks are feared to be connected to this lost house.

You can not have multipe marks. You can get them latter then first level if you wish. You can upgrade as you gain levels using feats. There are prestige classes that let you gain them, including the all powerful Syberis mark.

Beyond that, you'll have to consult someone with the Dragonmarked book.
Nived
03-24-07, 02:41 AM For reasons unknown, certain bloodlines amongst the humanoid races develop strange tatoo like symbols that grant spell like abilities. These symbols are called Dragonmarks because they resemble patterns from the mythic Dragonic Prophecy, some believe that these dragonmarked bloodlines hold special meaning for the prophecy.

Now as I said these powers develop along bloodlines, however they are not purely genetic, two Dragonmarked parents could have many children and have none that develop marks, why this occurs in unclear, and is a part of the magical nature of the marks. What is clear is that no one without some tie to the bloodline can develop a true dragonmark.

True Dragonmarks are those marks that breed true... that is to say all those within the bloodline carry in them the potential to manifest a dragonmark though it is purely up to chance (or destiny) that they do. Marks can develop on a person of the correct bloodline at any point in their life past puberty, maybe it'll develop when they're 16, maybe when they're 90 five minutes before they die, or as mentioned above never at all.

True Dragonmarks come in two main types; Regular (Least, Lesser, Greater), and Siberys.
For regular true Dragonmarks a member of the bloodline develops a small mark, maybe 2 inches across that grants them the Least powers, Least Dragonmarks are the most common. As a d'marked scion ages they may or may not grow in power. If they do grow in power (i.e. takes Lesser feat) their dragonmark grows as does their powers, Greater marks are even larger still the patters becoming more intricate and larger (up to 8 inches across)

Siberys are truely rare, always develop later in life, and are even more powerful than the Greater Dragonmarks. The thing about Siberys is that the person who developed them was unmarked to that point in their life, they were of the proper bloodline, however suddenly (i.e. some point after 13th level) develop this incredibly powerful mark, which can cover their entire torsos.

True Dragonmarks can develop on base humanoid (PHB races) that has even a drop of the proper bloodline. Mixing bloodlines can be bad... more on that later.

True Dragonmarks of a bloodline tie together towards a certain 'theme', their spell like abilities are similar, thus they are called such things as The Dragonmark of Passage, of Warding, of the Sentinal, of the Storm, or of Shadow. The Dragonmarked bloodlines, or Houses, came together to use their special abilities to create near monopolies on industries related to the powers of their marks.

So House Orien, bearers of the Dragonmark of Passage control traderoutes, overland shipping, and Teleportation.
House Cannith, bearers of the Mark of Making control the tinkers guilds, blacksmiths, and artisans of Khorvaire.
House Kundarak, bearers of the Mark of Warding control the Banking system.

etc.

There are 13 true marks, 1 mark (the Mark of Death) is believed to have been wiped out. There are currently 13 Dragonmarked Houses (House Phiarlan bearers of the Mark of Shadow split into two houses). These Dragonmarked Houses are the mechas of industry in Eberron. Supposedly Politically neutral they operate without regaurd to national boarders.

There is however another kind of Dragonmark, Aberrant Dragonmarks. These are often destructive dragonmarks that can develop on anyone of a dragonmarked race or subrace. They do not breed true and are fairly random (though there are only a handful of spell-like abilities they can grant). Aberrant Dragonmarks also occur when there is a mixing of blood between the Houses, and is taboo. In the past there used to be Aberrant Dragonmarks as powerful if nor more powerful than the Siberys marked, and almost all purely destructive. The True Houses banded togetehr in an effort to wipe out these Aberrants before their destructive tendancy cause the people of Khorvaire to turn against all Dragonmarked. Thus began the War of the Mark... which the Houses eventually won. Today while Aberrant Dragonmarks still occationally happen they're rarer, and not as powerful, there is a stigma attatched to them that those who bare them will eventually go mad, and are thus shunned.

To date, officially no one has developed more powerful Aberrant marks, like those of old, though the rules for them are in Dragonmarked, so a DM can certainly play that angle.

Mechanically Dragonmarks are feats. That grant you spell like abilities, you have to meet the race prerequisits to gain certain marks. Only Humans develop the marks of making, sentinal, passage, handling, only halflings develop the marks of healing and hospotality, only half elves develop the mark of the storm or warning, etc.

There are many feats and PrCs that increase the powers and abilties given by the marks.

Anyway I hoped that answered your questions.

For some example images.
House Orien's Mark of Passage in Least, Lesser, Greater, and Siberys flavors. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/80190.jpg)
A Dragonmark Heir with Lyrander's Lesser Mark of the Storm (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/82096.jpg)
And a Kundarak scion with the Siberys Mark of Warding. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/82100.jpg)
The Jake
03-27-07, 07:37 PM I was wondering about half-daelkyr. Despite being of mixed heritage with dragonmarked races they themselves can only qualify for aberrant dragonmarks -- is that correct?
mhacdebhandia
03-27-07, 07:47 PM That would be my ruling. Given that mixing with other dragonmarked bloodlines produces aberrant dragonmarks, I imagine that mixing with the energies of the daelkyr couldn't be any better!
The Jake
03-27-07, 08:00 PM That would be my ruling. Given that mixing with other dragonmarked bloodlines produces aberrant dragonmarks, I imagine that mixing with the energies of the daelkyr couldn't be any better!

If I get a chance to play, I'd love to play a half-daelkyr Cataclysm Mage with an Aberrant Dragonmarks.... mwuahahaha....
UnderworldLord
03-27-07, 10:02 PM There is one vital problem with that: Daelkyr Half-Bloods are the aberrant subtype, not a subtype of human. Drow, by the RAW can have aberrant marks. They are an elven subrace. Daelkyr Half-Bloods are NOT a human subrace, and thus cannot have even aberrant marks. The same goes for aberrant feats from LoM. Consider it silly, or preposterous, but thats how the RAW works. Or at least thats how I'm interpreting it, though someone else is free to do as they wish in their game.
yrogerg
03-27-07, 10:33 PM There is one vital problem with that: Daelkyr Half-Bloods are the aberrant subtype, not a subtype of human. Drow, by the RAW can have aberrant marks. They are an elven subrace. Daelkyr Half-Bloods are NOT a human subrace, and thus cannot have even aberrant marks. The same goes for aberrant feats from LoM. Consider it silly, or preposterous, but thats how the RAW works. Or at least thats how I'm interpreting it, though someone else is free to do as they wish in their game.

Problem is, RAW doesn't define the term "race". And the examples of subraces presented break down dramatically if you use type and subtype as the standard to determine races: Are Efreeti more like a subrace of Genie, or a subrace of Salamander? What about Steam/Magma/Fire Mephits? Are they subraces of Mephits or of this weirdo Salamander/Efreet/Azer race? Are Rakshasa a subrace of Tieflings, Couatls, Night Hags, Janni, or 20th-level Monks?

Heck, you don't even need to leave the Humanoid type before you run into problems, unless Kobolds and Troglodites are a subrace of Lizardfolk, or Locthath a subrace of Merfolk.
The Jake
03-28-07, 12:41 AM There is one vital problem with that: Daelkyr Half-Bloods are the aberrant subtype, not a subtype of human. Drow, by the RAW can have aberrant marks. They are an elven subrace. Daelkyr Half-Bloods are NOT a human subrace, and thus cannot have even aberrant marks. The same goes for aberrant feats from LoM. Consider it silly, or preposterous, but thats how the RAW works. Or at least thats how I'm interpreting it, though someone else is free to do as they wish in their game.

Well the way I read it (please correct me if I am mistaken), anyone inelligible for true dragonmarks is elligible for an aberrant dragonmark? Whats more, its clearly stated in the half-daelkyr description they are bred with another race, usually human. So I would counter that while its not explicitly stated, its all but implied that half-daelkyr are elligible for aberrant dragonmarks.
Arcane Guyver
03-28-07, 01:20 AM Well, if you allow half-daelkyr to have dragonmarks, you'd better be prepared to allow elans dragonmarks.
Shady314
03-28-07, 04:29 AM Well the way I read it (please correct me if I am mistaken), anyone inelligible for true dragonmarks is elligible for an aberrant dragonmark?
You're mistaken. Aberrant marks only appear on the same races as the true marks and subraces thereof(though I personally keep them off subraces). Therefore kalashtar cannot have aberrant marks. Nor changelings or shifers or anyone else not of the proper race. It's up to your DM if half-daelkyr fall under human as a subrace .

Whats more, its clearly stated in the half-daelkyr description they are bred with another race, usually human. So I would counter that while its not explicitly stated, its all but implied that half-daelkyr are elligible for aberrant dragonmarks.
The problem with implications is people can read things many different ways. So we fall back on the RAW to keep a common ground in discussion. Changelings and Shifters are descendants of humans mixed with changeling and lycanthrope blood respectively but they can't have any marks not even aberrant ones. Half-daelkyr could easily be the same way.
The Jake
04-02-07, 08:32 PM Except changelings and shifters are bred from several generations of lycanthropes and dopplegangers breeding true. A half-daelkyr can have two perfectly normal human parents and still become half-daelkyr IIRC...
UnderworldLord
04-02-07, 08:49 PM It requires daelkyr corruption magic to do this, mechanically represented, IIRC, as the breed leech. And I would guesstimate that they can breed true, it simply either hasn't had the chance, or opportunity to do so. Not to mention that their population probably isn't very high...
Darth Syntax
04-03-07, 12:55 AM You're mistaken. Aberrant marks only appear on the same races as the true marks and subraces thereof(though I personally keep them off subraces). Therefore kalashtar cannot have aberrant marks. Nor changelings or shifers or anyone else not of the proper race. It's up to your DM if half-daelkyr fall under human as a subrace .

The problem with implications is people can read things many different ways. So we fall back on the RAW to keep a common ground in discussion. Changelings and Shifters are descendants of humans mixed with changeling and lycanthrope blood respectively but they can't have any marks not even aberrant ones. Half-daelkyr could easily be the same way.

I generally agree with this, although I am far more strict in my allowance of aberrant marks. Sarlonan humans are not able to manifest any form of dragonmark, neither are the Seren. The same goes for the Aerenai and the Tiernadal (unless they are more closely related to the handfull of lines that produced the dragonmarks than they are to the main portion of the population). There are "aberrant" families as well as seemingly random individuals, it is just that the "family" marks tend to be somewhat unpredictible in their occurance, unlike the the normal marks, which can be fairly well predicted through the use of selective breeding.
Just another user
04-03-07, 04:13 AM Except changelings and shifters are bred from several generations of lycanthropes and dopplegangers breeding true.

actually the only thing known for sure is that changelings and shifters are related to lychantropes and dopplegangers but nobody is sure what exactly this relation is, (i.e it is never explicitely said in the books or in-game that shifters come from lycanthropes/human(oid) mating)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Olidammara 03-23-07, 11:32 PM	so what's the deal with dragon marks? i heard from someone that they're like x-men powers, you're sort of born with them. is taht true, or are they more like magic tattoos that you can have added to your character? can you have multiple? i know there are least, lesser, etc. can you upgrade?
Kensan_Oni 03-24-07, 02:32 AM	Dragonmarks are an event that is unique to Korbarre of Eberron. The Dragonmarked are people who are born of the classic D&D races (The PH races) that seem to be important to the Draconic Prophecy. They manifast as tatoo's when their power is activated. No one is completely sure why some people get them and others don't. Those that inherit non-abberant dragonmarks are often incorperated into the Dragonmark guilds. The Abberant marks are not as well understood, and some are feared, as the war of the mark destroyed the House of Death, and Abberant marks are feared to be connected to this lost house. You can not have multipe marks. You can get them latter then first level if you wish. You can upgrade as you gain levels using feats. There are prestige classes that let you gain them, including the all powerful Syberis mark. Beyond that, you'll have to consult someone with the Dragonmarked book.
Nived 03-24-07, 02:41 AM	For reasons unknown, certain bloodlines amongst the humanoid races develop strange tatoo like symbols that grant spell like abilities. These symbols are called Dragonmarks because they resemble patterns from the mythic Dragonic Prophecy, some believe that these dragonmarked bloodlines hold special meaning for the prophecy. Now as I said these powers develop along bloodlines, however they are not purely genetic, two Dragonmarked parents could have many children and have none that develop marks, why this occurs in unclear, and is a part of the magical nature of the marks. What is clear is that no one without some tie to the bloodline can develop a true dragonmark. True Dragonmarks are those marks that breed true... that is to say all those within the bloodline carry in them the potential to manifest a dragonmark though it is purely up to chance (or destiny) that they do. Marks can develop on a person of the correct bloodline at any point in their life past puberty, maybe it'll develop when they're 16, maybe when they're 90 five minutes before they die, or as mentioned above never at all. True Dragonmarks come in two main types; Regular (Least, Lesser, Greater), and Siberys. For regular true Dragonmarks a member of the bloodline develops a small mark, maybe 2 inches across that grants them the Least powers, Least Dragonmarks are the most common. As a d'marked scion ages they may or may not grow in power. If they do grow in power (i.e. takes Lesser feat) their dragonmark grows as does their powers, Greater marks are even larger still the patters becoming more intricate and larger (up to 8 inches across) Siberys are truely rare, always develop later in life, and are even more powerful than the Greater Dragonmarks. The thing about Siberys is that the person who developed them was unmarked to that point in their life, they were of the proper bloodline, however suddenly (i.e. some point after 13th level) develop this incredibly powerful mark, which can cover their entire torsos. True Dragonmarks can develop on base humanoid (PHB races) that has even a drop of the proper bloodline. Mixing bloodlines can be bad... more on that later. True Dragonmarks of a bloodline tie together towards a certain 'theme', their spell like abilities are similar, thus they are called such things as The Dragonmark of Passage, of Warding, of the Sentinal, of the Storm, or of Shadow. The Dragonmarked bloodlines, or Houses, came together to use their special abilities to create near monopolies on industries related to the powers of their marks. So House Orien, bearers of the Dragonmark of Passage control traderoutes, overland shipping, and Teleportation. House Cannith, bearers of the Mark of Making control the tinkers guilds, blacksmiths, and artisans of Khorvaire. House Kundarak, bearers of the Mark of Warding control the Banking system. etc. There are 13 true marks, 1 mark (the Mark of Death) is believed to have been wiped out. There are currently 13 Dragonmarked Houses (House Phiarlan bearers of the Mark of Shadow split into two houses). These Dragonmarked Houses are the mechas of industry in Eberron. Supposedly Politically neutral they operate without regaurd to national boarders. There is however another kind of Dragonmark, Aberrant Dragonmarks. These are often destructive dragonmarks that can develop on anyone of a dragonmarked race or subrace. They do not breed true and are fairly random (though there are only a handful of spell-like abilities they can grant). Aberrant Dragonmarks also occur when there is a mixing of blood between the Houses, and is taboo. In the past there used to be Aberrant Dragonmarks as powerful if nor more powerful than the Siberys marked, and almost all purely destructive. The True Houses banded togetehr in an effort to wipe out these Aberrants before their destructive tendancy cause the people of Khorvaire to turn against all Dragonmarked. Thus began the War of the Mark... which the Houses eventually won. Today while Aberrant Dragonmarks still occationally happen they're rarer, and not as powerful, there is a stigma attatched to them that those who bare them will eventually go mad, and are thus shunned. To date, officially no one has developed more powerful Aberrant marks, like those of old, though the rules for them are in Dragonmarked, so a DM can certainly play that angle. Mechanically Dragonmarks are feats. That grant you spell like abilities, you have to meet the race prerequisits to gain certain marks. Only Humans develop the marks of making, sentinal, passage, handling, only halflings develop the marks of healing and hospotality, only half elves develop the mark of the storm or warning, etc. There are many feats and PrCs that increase the powers and abilties given by the marks. Anyway I hoped that answered your questions. For some example images. House Orien's Mark of Passage in Least, Lesser, Greater, and Siberys flavors. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/80190.jpg) A Dragonmark Heir with Lyrander's Lesser Mark of the Storm (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/82096.jpg) And a Kundarak scion with the Siberys Mark of Warding. (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/eb_gallery/82100.jpg)
The Jake 03-27-07, 07:37 PM	I was wondering about half-daelkyr. Despite being of mixed heritage with dragonmarked races they themselves can only qualify for aberrant dragonmarks -- is that correct?
mhacdebhandia 03-27-07, 07:47 PM	That would be my ruling. Given that mixing with other dragonmarked bloodlines produces aberrant dragonmarks, I imagine that mixing with the energies of the daelkyr couldn't be any better!
The Jake 03-27-07, 08:00 PM	That would be my ruling. Given that mixing with other dragonmarked bloodlines produces aberrant dragonmarks, I imagine that mixing with the energies of the daelkyr couldn't be any better! If I get a chance to play, I'd love to play a half-daelkyr Cataclysm Mage with an Aberrant Dragonmarks.... mwuahahaha....
UnderworldLord 03-27-07, 10:02 PM	There is one vital problem with that: Daelkyr Half-Bloods are the aberrant subtype, not a subtype of human. Drow, by the RAW can have aberrant marks. They are an elven subrace. Daelkyr Half-Bloods are NOT a human subrace, and thus cannot have even aberrant marks. The same goes for aberrant feats from LoM. Consider it silly, or preposterous, but thats how the RAW works. Or at least thats how I'm interpreting it, though someone else is free to do as they wish in their game.
yrogerg 03-27-07, 10:33 PM	There is one vital problem with that: Daelkyr Half-Bloods are the aberrant subtype, not a subtype of human. Drow, by the RAW can have aberrant marks. They are an elven subrace. Daelkyr Half-Bloods are NOT a human subrace, and thus cannot have even aberrant marks. The same goes for aberrant feats from LoM. Consider it silly, or preposterous, but thats how the RAW works. Or at least thats how I'm interpreting it, though someone else is free to do as they wish in their game. Problem is, RAW doesn't define the term "race". And the examples of subraces presented break down dramatically if you use type and subtype as the standard to determine races: Are Efreeti more like a subrace of Genie, or a subrace of Salamander? What about Steam/Magma/Fire Mephits? Are they subraces of Mephits or of this weirdo Salamander/Efreet/Azer race? Are Rakshasa a subrace of Tieflings, Couatls, Night Hags, Janni, or 20th-level Monks? Heck, you don't even need to leave the Humanoid type before you run into problems, unless Kobolds and Troglodites are a subrace of Lizardfolk, or Locthath a subrace of Merfolk.
The Jake 03-28-07, 12:41 AM	There is one vital problem with that: Daelkyr Half-Bloods are the aberrant subtype, not a subtype of human. Drow, by the RAW can have aberrant marks. They are an elven subrace. Daelkyr Half-Bloods are NOT a human subrace, and thus cannot have even aberrant marks. The same goes for aberrant feats from LoM. Consider it silly, or preposterous, but thats how the RAW works. Or at least thats how I'm interpreting it, though someone else is free to do as they wish in their game. Well the way I read it (please correct me if I am mistaken), anyone inelligible for true dragonmarks is elligible for an aberrant dragonmark? Whats more, its clearly stated in the half-daelkyr description they are bred with another race, usually human. So I would counter that while its not explicitly stated, its all but implied that half-daelkyr are elligible for aberrant dragonmarks.
Arcane Guyver 03-28-07, 01:20 AM	Well, if you allow half-daelkyr to have dragonmarks, you'd better be prepared to allow elans dragonmarks.
Shady314 03-28-07, 04:29 AM	Well the way I read it (please correct me if I am mistaken), anyone inelligible for true dragonmarks is elligible for an aberrant dragonmark? You're mistaken. Aberrant marks only appear on the same races as the true marks and subraces thereof(though I personally keep them off subraces). Therefore kalashtar cannot have aberrant marks. Nor changelings or shifers or anyone else not of the proper race. It's up to your DM if half-daelkyr fall under human as a subrace . Whats more, its clearly stated in the half-daelkyr description they are bred with another race, usually human. So I would counter that while its not explicitly stated, its all but implied that half-daelkyr are elligible for aberrant dragonmarks. The problem with implications is people can read things many different ways. So we fall back on the RAW to keep a common ground in discussion. Changelings and Shifters are descendants of humans mixed with changeling and lycanthrope blood respectively but they can't have any marks not even aberrant ones. Half-daelkyr could easily be the same way.
The Jake 04-02-07, 08:32 PM	Except changelings and shifters are bred from several generations of lycanthropes and dopplegangers breeding true. A half-daelkyr can have two perfectly normal human parents and still become half-daelkyr IIRC...
UnderworldLord 04-02-07, 08:49 PM	It requires daelkyr corruption magic to do this, mechanically represented, IIRC, as the breed leech. And I would guesstimate that they can breed true, it simply either hasn't had the chance, or opportunity to do so. Not to mention that their population probably isn't very high...
Darth Syntax 04-03-07, 12:55 AM	You're mistaken. Aberrant marks only appear on the same races as the true marks and subraces thereof(though I personally keep them off subraces). Therefore kalashtar cannot have aberrant marks. Nor changelings or shifers or anyone else not of the proper race. It's up to your DM if half-daelkyr fall under human as a subrace . The problem with implications is people can read things many different ways. So we fall back on the RAW to keep a common ground in discussion. Changelings and Shifters are descendants of humans mixed with changeling and lycanthrope blood respectively but they can't have any marks not even aberrant ones. Half-daelkyr could easily be the same way. I generally agree with this, although I am far more strict in my allowance of aberrant marks. Sarlonan humans are not able to manifest any form of dragonmark, neither are the Seren. The same goes for the Aerenai and the Tiernadal (unless they are more closely related to the handfull of lines that produced the dragonmarks than they are to the main portion of the population). There are "aberrant" families as well as seemingly random individuals, it is just that the "family" marks tend to be somewhat unpredictible in their occurance, unlike the the normal marks, which can be fairly well predicted through the use of selective breeding.
Just another user 04-03-07, 04:13 AM	Except changelings and shifters are bred from several generations of lycanthropes and dopplegangers breeding true. actually the only thing known for sure is that changelings and shifters are related to lychantropes and dopplegangers but nobody is sure what exactly this relation is, (i.e it is never explicitely said in the books or in-game that shifters come from lycanthropes/human(oid) mating)