Dragonmarked Houses extranational status [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dragonmarked Houses extranational status [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
makeshiftwings
11-23-05, 12:03 PM I'm a little confused about the "extranational status" of the Dragonmarked Houses. I believe it's stated that they are effectively neutral in matters of state, and don't claim allegiance to any one country. I'm not sure I understand how this works though. If you are a member of a Dragonmarked House, do you have no citizenship in any country? If you marry into the house, do you have to give up your citizenship? Since you need to live somewhere, and none of the Dragonmarked Houses seem to actually own any land, are you still accountable under the law for whichever country you are in, but receive none of the benefits of citizenship?
Psionycx
11-23-05, 01:14 PM Okay, the way I gather that this works is that the Houses have a kind of special status agreed to by the Five Nations (originally Galifar) in return for their special services. During the Last War none of the nations could afford to have any of the Houses withdraw from their nations, as this would severely threaten their ability to fight the war.

While the Houses do not technically rule any kind of states, they do have enclaves within the various nations of Khorvaire. These are generally treated by the nation in question the same way a foreign embassy would be. For example, in Sharn the the city watch does not police the House enclaves (or even expect to be allowed inside), the Houses are expected to do that themselves.

House members do not have diplomatic immunity per se, but in many places they are less likely to be casually harrassed by the authorities. They will almost never be interfered with during the execution of their House functions, as this could lead to retaliatory action by their House against the perpetrator. If this were a government that could mean sanctions and a limitation of or full withdrawal of House services.

However, this does not make a House member immune to the law all of the time, particularly outside the scope of their duties. For example, getting into a tavern brawl could still result in being arrested. The House would probably bail their member out, unless the crime were extremely grievous or caused political problems. But even in minor cases they would probably apply private punishment within the governance of the House and/or expect the member to repay whatever bail/fines/bribes/settlement had to be paid out.

Some Houses may have even mroe specific arrangements. For example, House Deneith's Sentinel Marshalls have special legal status and the right to pursue and arrest criminals across national boundaries. This only applies to the Sentinel Marshalls however, not to other members of the House.

House members are effectively "citizens" of their House and subject to the rules of their House leaders. They are not technically citizens of any of the nations although they may feel like they are culturally part of the nation. If someone marries into the House they become a member of the House. If they marry out of the House they effectively leave it and become a citizen of their spouse's nation (as is the case with Queen Aurala's husband).
Steelpunk
11-23-05, 01:42 PM The way I understand it, the extranational status of a House applies to the entity, not the individual.

The individual citizenship of a House member would correspond to their nation or origin, however their allegiance would be to the House, not the national government, and they would be prevented from participating in governmental affairs in order to maintain the House's status as a neutral entity.

Of course, most national governments would probably allow members of a House to cross borders and whatnot without much (if any) hassle, if they were travelling under House order - House Lyrandar(sp) and House Orien do it all the time. Rulers would also likely try and make things comfortable for House citizens, since good relations would maintain favour.

If an individual broke national or regional laws on their own without House backing, I'd think the House would exile them to maintain its reputation (depending on the magnitude of the crime as it relates to a House... House Medani would probably treat an embezzler more mildly than House Kundarak would, for example). The nations need the Houses, but the Houses also need the nations. Each House is an enterprise, and losing the support of their customers would hurt them immensely.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
makeshiftwings 11-23-05, 12:03 PM	I'm a little confused about the "extranational status" of the Dragonmarked Houses. I believe it's stated that they are effectively neutral in matters of state, and don't claim allegiance to any one country. I'm not sure I understand how this works though. If you are a member of a Dragonmarked House, do you have no citizenship in any country? If you marry into the house, do you have to give up your citizenship? Since you need to live somewhere, and none of the Dragonmarked Houses seem to actually own any land, are you still accountable under the law for whichever country you are in, but receive none of the benefits of citizenship?
Psionycx 11-23-05, 01:14 PM	Okay, the way I gather that this works is that the Houses have a kind of special status agreed to by the Five Nations (originally Galifar) in return for their special services. During the Last War none of the nations could afford to have any of the Houses withdraw from their nations, as this would severely threaten their ability to fight the war. While the Houses do not technically rule any kind of states, they do have enclaves within the various nations of Khorvaire. These are generally treated by the nation in question the same way a foreign embassy would be. For example, in Sharn the the city watch does not police the House enclaves (or even expect to be allowed inside), the Houses are expected to do that themselves. House members do not have diplomatic immunity per se, but in many places they are less likely to be casually harrassed by the authorities. They will almost never be interfered with during the execution of their House functions, as this could lead to retaliatory action by their House against the perpetrator. If this were a government that could mean sanctions and a limitation of or full withdrawal of House services. However, this does not make a House member immune to the law all of the time, particularly outside the scope of their duties. For example, getting into a tavern brawl could still result in being arrested. The House would probably bail their member out, unless the crime were extremely grievous or caused political problems. But even in minor cases they would probably apply private punishment within the governance of the House and/or expect the member to repay whatever bail/fines/bribes/settlement had to be paid out. Some Houses may have even mroe specific arrangements. For example, House Deneith's Sentinel Marshalls have special legal status and the right to pursue and arrest criminals across national boundaries. This only applies to the Sentinel Marshalls however, not to other members of the House. House members are effectively "citizens" of their House and subject to the rules of their House leaders. They are not technically citizens of any of the nations although they may feel like they are culturally part of the nation. If someone marries into the House they become a member of the House. If they marry out of the House they effectively leave it and become a citizen of their spouse's nation (as is the case with Queen Aurala's husband).
Steelpunk 11-23-05, 01:42 PM	The way I understand it, the extranational status of a House applies to the entity, not the individual. The individual citizenship of a House member would correspond to their nation or origin, however their allegiance would be to the House, not the national government, and they would be prevented from participating in governmental affairs in order to maintain the House's status as a neutral entity. Of course, most national governments would probably allow members of a House to cross borders and whatnot without much (if any) hassle, if they were travelling under House order - House Lyrandar(sp) and House Orien do it all the time. Rulers would also likely try and make things comfortable for House citizens, since good relations would maintain favour. If an individual broke national or regional laws on their own without House backing, I'd think the House would exile them to maintain its reputation (depending on the magnitude of the crime as it relates to a House... House Medani would probably treat an embezzler more mildly than House Kundarak would, for example). The nations need the Houses, but the Houses also need the nations. Each House is an enterprise, and losing the support of their customers would hurt them immensely.