Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arcane Guyver 12-22-06, 07:07 PM	Just wanted to bring this up (probably a bit late, though) - Issue 351 of Dragon magazine has an EXCELLENT article discussing the Sorcerers of Eberron, written by Mr. Baker himself. Besides going into some very neat fluff, there are some mechanical options, including a special Sorcerer-only dragonmark feat (kicks serious ass), as well as three options to take instead of acquiring a familiar (one for each of the Pregenitor dragons). Though the rest of the magazine is 'meh' (the rest is devoted to Forgotten Realms and other campaign settings, the class acts boring), I highly recommend this issue just for this article alone. Oh, well, there's also a typically great Order of the Stick strip with a most excellent magic item. :)
mhacdebhandia 12-23-06, 03:32 AM	This article is the first of a permanent feature in Dragon, the "Dragonmarks" column. Along with the "Volo's Guide" feature for the Forgotten Realms, the Paizo folks are committed to four pages every month on each of currently-published settings. That they chose to kick this off in the annual "Campaign Classics" January issue, where they publish articles about unsupported TSR campaign settings like Al-Qadim and Kara-Tur, is fairly appropriate.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 12-23-06, 06:38 PM	You have my interest. Dragonmarked sorcerers? You've got me. I've got to hunt down a local place to buy Dragon Magazine. That said, could you offer even the briefest summary of what makes these options so great?
mhacdebhandia 12-23-06, 07:56 PM	Dragonmarked sorcerers take the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat, which replaces the Least, Lesser, and Greater dragonmark feats. It cannot be taken if you have an existing dragonmark, and you cannot acquire a dragonmark through the traditional feats if you have one through this feat. Rather than getting spell-like abilities through the dragonmarks, the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat adds any sorcerer spells congruent to dragonmark abilities to your list of spells known, even if you're not yet high enough level to actually cast them. So, for instance, no House Jorasco sorcerers would possess these powers (i.e., take the feat) because none of the spell-like abilities granted by the Mark of Healing exist as sorcerer spells. The other half of the article discusses how, for Eberron sorcerers, the "blood of dragons" from which they derive their powers is generally believed to be the blood of the Progenitors - Eberron, Khyber, and Siberys. Three replacement class features, one for each Progenitor, swap out a sorcerer's familiar for some other feature as well as adjusting your list of class skills. Three groups are listed as possessing one each of these blood ties to the Progenitors: the dwarven Clan Alarak, tied to Siberys; the 'Uraash Tribe of orcs, tied to Eberron; and the Cold Wind tribe of the Demon Wastes, tied to Khyber. The Blood of Eberron class feature grants an animal companion as if you were a druid of half your sorcerer level (this stacks with druid and ranger levels). The Blood of Khyber class feature improves your caster level when casting Conjuration (Summoning) and Transmutation spells, and penalises it when casting Abjuration and Divination spells. The Blood of Siberys class feature lets you treat your Charisma as four points higher for the purposes of determining bonus spells and the highest level of spells you can cast.
Neofish 12-23-06, 10:33 PM	Rather than getting spell-like abilities through the dragonmarks, the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat adds any sorcerer spells congruent to dragonmark abilities to your list of spells known, even if you're not yet high enough level to actually cast them. So, for instance, no House Jorasco sorcerers would possess these powers (i.e., take the feat) because none of the spell-like abilities granted by the Mark of Healing exist as sorcerer spells. That's kinda weak, no healing for the halfling sorcerer. I wish mine would hurry up and get here.
mhacdebhandia 12-27-06, 02:00 AM	The article mentions that there are sorcerers in House Jorasco - they just don't have the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat. I think it makes sense to deny sorcerers access to healing spells - it's one thing to have the Mark of Healing in the usual fashion, it's quite another to have all of its powers added to your list of sorcerer spells known. For the sake of completeness: House Tharashk sorcerers would not gain access to know direction, helping hand, or find the path. House Vadalis sorcerers would not gain access to calm animals, charm animal, speak with animals, dominate animal, greater magic fang, or summon nature's ally V - all they could gain is animal growth. House Ghallanda sorcerers would not gain purify food and drink, create food and water, or heroes' feast. House Cannith sorcerers would not gain access to make whole. House Orien sorcerers would not gain access to dimension leap (which isn't a spell). House Sivis sorcerers would gain access to all of the spells upon which the Mark of Scribing's abilities are based. House Deneith sorcerers would not gain access to shield of faith, or shield other. House Phiarlan or Thuranni sorcerers would gain access to all of the spells upon which the Mark of Shadow's abilities are based. House Lyrandar sorcerers would not gain access to wind's favour (which isn't a spell) or control winds. House Kundarak sorcerers would not gain access to glyph of warding, or greater glyph of warding.
The White Sorcerer 12-27-06, 05:42 AM	House Orien sorcerers would not gain access to dimension leap (which isn't a spell). House Lyrandar sorcerers would not gain access to wind's favour (which isn't a spell) Not exactly correct. Magic of Eberron includes both spells, although only dimension leap is available to sorcerers.
Salla 12-27-06, 01:15 PM	I'm definitely using this article, and I'm definitely going to houserule that the sorcs do get the clerical spells added to the lists, though at one level higher on the Sorc list (cure light is 2nd level, etc). Arcane healing doesn't bother me. :)
androkguz 12-27-06, 02:31 PM	wow, that's access to a LOT more spell in some cases. Nah, it doesn't work that good for me. I would instead have any one spell-like ability granted by the Least Mark added to your list (even if it's not a sor spell) plus another least mark spell and a lesser mark spell if your CL is 6th or more, plus another one of each if your caster level is 10th or more.
Neofish 12-27-06, 03:43 PM	I'm definitely using this article, and I'm definitely going to houserule that the sorcs do get the clerical spells added to the lists, though at one level higher on the Sorc list (cure light is 2nd level, etc). Arcane healing doesn't bother me. :) Ditto, it always bugged that a Bard could do it but not anyone else. Plus, if they had expanded the Sorcerer's spell selection to include some divine spells, it would have greatly opened up his appeal in my opinion.
Neofish 01-11-07, 05:44 PM	After finally getting my mag and reading the article I can find no place where it states that a Sorcerer that takes the dragonmarked sorcerer feat will not gain clericle spells normally granted by a chosen dragonmarked.
The White Sorcerer 01-11-07, 06:34 PM	After finally getting my mag and reading the article I can find no place where it states that a Sorcerer that takes the dragonmarked sorcerer feat will not gain clericle spells normally granted by a chosen dragonmarked. Then you need to read the feat again. It's in the first sentence after Benefit:
Neofish 01-12-07, 10:54 AM	Then you need to read the feat again. It's in the first sentence after Benefit: Bleh.
Alex_ 01-12-07, 11:17 AM	Perhaps a bit extreme but how about making one of the prerequisites for getting any Dragonmarked feat or taking any Dragonmarked prestige class at least one level of Sorcerer or the ability to cast 1st level spontaneous arcane spells? That would really cement the relationship between Dragonmarks and Sorcerers, along with the Sorcerer's association with Dragons and the Prophecy.
bykov1 01-12-07, 12:26 PM	I read this article several times, and because of which I am considering giving a rewrite to my Dennieth Dragonmarked Sorcerer (and Dragonblooded too :-) ). My questions is does the manifestation of the dragonmark, with this feat, count as a prerequisite for respective dragonmarked feats? As the article points out, as you are able to cast given dragonmarked spells as a sorcerer, the dragonmark begins to manifest as a more advanced dragonmark. Thanx! Bykov.
ArisenFromTheDead 01-12-07, 12:39 PM	I was iffy about buying it from the store today. I didn't know if I should. But this topic sold it for me.
Hellcow 01-12-07, 12:40 PM	My questions is does the manifestation of the dragonmark, with this feat, count as a prerequisite for respective dragonmarked feats? The article was written prior to Dragonmarked, and thus the feats building off of dragonmarks. Personally, I would say that if a character with the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat receives access to a particular level of mark abilities because of the feat, he should be considered to have that level of the mark for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.
bykov1 01-16-07, 04:47 PM	Thanks for the quick reply Hell Cow. The article in Dragon has really inspired alot of adventure paths for our campaign, just based on the Dragonmarked Sorcerer. The backstory on the character in question was that she left Karrlakton and House Dennieth based on ideological differences shortly after manifesting the dragonmark, but before the house was made aware of it. If all goes according to plan in campaign (and really what campaign ever does) she will be forced into the spotlight in Sharn due to the actions of her and her adventuring party. Based on the Dragon article, dragonmarked sorcerers are highly "encouraged" to come back into the fold of the house. Now add the heightening of her ability with her discovering her dragonblooded nature (Argonessen Red Dragon), her being a Dragonmarked Sorceress, and the fact that the Dennieth Enclave in Sharn has been infiltrated as spec'd in Sharn:CoT, I am seeing life becoming very difficult for this character (and thus the party). So my question to the group would be, would this be a "Get her at all costs" scenario? Are there any other possible plot devices that I have overlooked for this character? Would it be a Dead or Alive type bounty or considering her rare nature, would she be brought back even if retrieved dead? Would it be Sharn, Karrlakton, or both pursuing her? All feedback is greatly appreciated!! Thank you! Bykov
Vharuck 01-16-07, 05:56 PM	And here today, when compiling a list of possible Player Characters (I mostly play with new people to the game, so pre-generated characters make everything easier), I jotted down an idea for a sorcerer that credited his spellcasting talent to the favor of the dragon Eberron, worshipped the draconic Sovereign Host, had a draconic motif to his spells (Burning Hands sprays flames from the mouth instead, but only an aesthetic change), and adventured to destroy "the children of Khyber" (which isn't limited to things actually from Khyber, but most evil entities). I must buy this magazine!
Kezghan 01-23-07, 12:48 AM	Question, Can Dragonmarked Sorcerers take the Heir of Siberys PRC? This seems very grey to me. I would be inclined to say no, but the possibility may yet exist. This article made me redesign my character (with DM permission of course). Fantastic addition to such a wonderful gaming world(im a die hard FR DM who loves playing in Eberron).
The White Sorcerer 01-23-07, 01:23 AM	Question, Can Dragonmarked Sorcerers take the Heir of Siberys PRC? While the text doesn't spell it out, I think it can be assumed that the intention was "No."
mhacdebhandia 01-23-07, 04:04 AM	Question, Can Dragonmarked Sorcerers take the Heir of Siberys PRC? I would tend to follow Keith's interpretation here: Personally, I would say that if a character with the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat receives access to a particular level of mark abilities because of the feat, he should be considered to have that level of the mark for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites. Extending this, if a character has the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat, she effectively has the least, lesser, or greater dragonmark as soon as she gains the ability to actually cast any of the spells the feat adds to her class list - that would effectively bar her from the Heir of Siberys prestige class.
ressurrector 01-23-07, 04:56 AM	Question: do sorcerors gain the siberys mark spell as a spell known? or just the least, lesser, and greater spells? If they do gain the siberys spells, then they can be treated as having a siberys dragonmark?
The White Sorcerer 01-23-07, 07:23 AM	Question: do sorcerors gain the siberys mark spell as a spell known? "Add all sorcerer spells from your dragonmarked house's least, lesser, and greater dragonmarks..." Answer: No.
bykov1 01-23-07, 08:04 AM	Though it would be really kewl, I would agree with the last few posters. A Siberys Mark is an instantaneous event that manifests on individuals not already marked. So a progression based feat, like Dragonmarked Sorcerer would not allow a "final" progression from Greater to Siberys, since it goes against the 'canon' of how Dragonmarks manifest. My Dragonmarked Sorceress (Denieth) Sorcerer 5 - Fighter 2 - Spellsword 2 - Dragonheart Mage 1 I have a small addiction to prestige classes. hehe. Bykov
ressurrector 01-23-07, 12:22 PM	Just wondering since I don't have the magaazine. And I agree it would be pretty funky if Sorcs could add the Siberys mark spell to their lists, and be treated as if having a Siberys mark. Although I might allow it in my campaign anyway, just to make Sorc more appealing.
mhacdebhandia 01-23-07, 04:33 PM	Well, if you allow Dragonmarked Sorcerer to grant access to the abilities of the Siberys mark, keep in mind the following: House Vadalis sorcerers would not gain access to awaken or summon nature's ally. House Jorasco sorcerers would not gain access to mass heal. House Cannith sorcerers would not gain access to true creation. House Lyrandar sorcerers would not gain access to storm of vengeance.
bykov1 07-11-07, 06:45 PM	Sorry to ressurect such an old thread, but I was pondering the Dragonmarked feats in deference to a Dragonmarked Sorcerer. As this thread already established, the manifestations on a Dragonmarked Sorcerer count as the prerequisite for feat requiring said feats. So my ponderance is how do the Dragonmarked Prodigy, Adept, & Visionary Feats work in respects to the Dragonmarked Sorcerer from Dragon #351? Are these new spells automatically granted to said sorcerer or would the sorcerer new to take the feat to gain access to a couple new spells? Along the same line of thought, would feats that grant an extra use of a DM SLE grant a DM sorcerer an extra casting a day, similar to a domain spell for clerics? Thank you! Bykov.
Hellcow 07-11-07, 10:14 PM	The Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat wasn't written at the same time as Dragonmarked, and the people developing the majority of the feats for Dragonmarked (primarily Chris Perkins and CA Suleiman) were in all likelihood unaware of the existence of the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat at the time, as it was in Paizo's hands. As such, the two things are not designed to work together and I'd be careful when you combine them. As the designer of the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat, my inclination is this: The abilities of a character with the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat are not affected by Dragonmarked Adept, Dragonmarked Prodigy, or Dragonmarked Visionary. While the character is technically ABLE to take the feats, he gains no benefit from doing so. I would also say that the character cannot use a sorcerer spell slot to empower any feat or class ability that is normally powered by a daily use of a dragonmarked ability. As the sorcerer gets considerably more uses per day than the average dragonmarked character, the balance of these feats or classes would be dramatically thrown off. The character CAN take and benefit from any feat requiring a true dragonmark that triggers off of the level of the mark - for example, Dragonmarked Summoner. The "level of the mark" is based on your ability to mimic that level of mark, as spelled out in the Dragonmarked Sorcerer feat. If you can produce the power of the Greater mark of your hose, you are considered to have the Greater mark for purposes of Dragonmarked Summoner. I wouldn't allow the character to gain additional uses of his abilities from feats, because he has another path to gaining multiple uses of his feats. If I DID decide to let a feat increase his spell slots, I'd specify that it could only be used to cast a spell matching his family dragonmark; the Phiarlan Dragonmarked Sorcerer shouldn't get an extra slot and then then get to use it to cast a fireball. So personally, I'd just avoid combining Dragonmarked Sorcerer with Adept, Prodigy, or Visionary. I can see ways to adapt them - but it's not something I'd do at my table.