| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Flame_Drake02-13-06, 07:17 PM | Courtesy of amazon.ca and Dragonreader at the Essential Eberron site: Dragonmarked by Keith Baker (Author), Michelle Lyons (Author), C.a. Suleiman (Author) Hardcover - 160 pages (November 7, 2006) Wizards of the Coast ; ISBN: 0786939338 Well, I guess we now know what that top secret project was. Drake |
| PoeticJustice02-13-06, 09:43 PM | We all know Keith and I recognize Suleiman from his work on Heroes of Horror, but who is this Michelle Lyons? Does anyone know anything about him? Oh, and this is totally sweet news. Sweet sweet sweet news! Edit: Wrong name. oopsie UPDATE: Lyon's got a good resume. Game of Thrones, Races of Stone, Hellsing d20, and what looks like a little bit of cyberpunk. Here's a link to an amazon search on her name. Michelle Lyons (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=Michelle%20Lyons&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/102-7800065-6848968) |
| Rechan02-13-06, 10:11 PM | Hellsing d20[/URL] There's a Hellsing d20? Sweet. As for the OP, this is indeed great. Although, I generally stick to this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=442444) when it comes to the Houses. Too bad the book's coming out in November. |
| Sir Elton02-13-06, 10:14 PM | Not to mention, d20 Advanced Magic. Michelle Lyons wrote that along with David Lyons. :D |
| PoeticJustice02-14-06, 01:55 AM | Keith is really excited about this book though. If he's impressed by how it's going to turn out, then I think it'll blow me away. |
| ieattrollsforbreakfast02-14-06, 08:31 AM | I can't wait for this release, it's been at the top of my 'Most Wanted' list since the release of the ECS. November, though, that's an awfully long wait :( |
| MrFilthyIke02-14-06, 10:34 AM | UPDATE: Lyon's got a good resume. Game of Thrones, Races of Stone, Hellsing d20, and what looks like a little bit of cyberpunk. Here's a link to an amazon search on her name. Michelle Lyons (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=Michelle%20Lyons&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/102-7800065-6848968) Here's her bio on what I presume is her page. http://matrix.dumpshock.com/michellelyons/cv.html#pub |
| KMFDM02-14-06, 01:34 PM | GREAT NEWS! Its very rare when a party doesn't have a dragonmarked character, let alone they don't interact with the Houses at all. I am addicted to playing Dragonmarked characters, they are so much fun. |
| Isran_Imrador02-14-06, 01:44 PM | Great news!!! :D Maybe it will get here in time for Xmas... :P |
| The Fireballed Mage02-14-06, 02:11 PM | *sigh* All my hard work doing the House write ups... undone... :D |
| Missekat02-14-06, 02:14 PM | I shouldn't think so, fireballed. You were there first, and although people who haven't read your entries will go with the book, the ones who opted for your work, will probably stick to it. ;) |
| Wick02-14-06, 03:30 PM | Where can I find your writeups Fireballed? I would love to read them, remember we still have lots of time before the book comes out and I am sure your work can help in the meantime. |
| igotsmeakabob!!02-14-06, 03:32 PM | Game of Thrones... awesome stuff. Can't wait. |
| talion0902-14-06, 04:22 PM | Game of Thrones... awesome stuff. Can't wait. Yep, if the author can handle the convoluted politics and factional infighting of the Game of Thrones, then I can't wait to see what this author does to the Dragonmark Houses along with Hellcow. And thankfully, Hellcow is directly involved in this book, which is probably far more important to most campaigns than other Eberron fare lately. |
| kidman02-14-06, 04:41 PM | yay, i was dissipointed when i didnt see ANYTHING ON DRAGONMARKS in the MoE (dragonmarks are magic last time i checked) horay now we can make even better and more awesome dragonmarked charicters!! |
| Just another user02-14-06, 04:57 PM | *sigh* All my hard work doing the House write ups... undone... :D Don't be sad FM. They have to do a Dolurrh of a work to beat your write-ups. There are some parts of your thread that I will consider forever canon, sourcebooks or no sourcebooks, because they are too right for the House, things like lyrandar's weathering, just to make an example. |
| The Fireballed Mage02-14-06, 06:22 PM | Don't be sad FM. They have to do a Dolurrh of a work to beat your write-ups. There are some parts of your thread that I will consider forever canon, sourcebooks or no sourcebooks, because they are too right for the House, things like lyrandar's weathering, just to make an example. Thank you. I really do appreciate people finding my work useful. I mean it. Where can I find your writeups Fireballed? I would love to read them, remember we still have lots of time before the book comes out and I am sure your work can help in the meantime. The initial thread can be found here: The Houses (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=442444) which has some discussion and input from others. Taski and Old Sage have done the job of collecting the write-ups from that thread into a handy PDF file, which can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/chaosmosis_unbound/PDFs.htm |
| Kid SixXx02-14-06, 08:34 PM | Thank you. I really do appreciate people finding my work useful. I mean it. The initial thread can be found here: The Houses (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=442444) which has some discussion and input from others. Taski and Old Sage have done the job of collecting the write-ups from that thread into a handy PDF file, which can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/chaosmosis_unbound/PDFs.htm I find your stuff to be an invaluable resource, FM. Have you sent any of your drafts to Keith? Could be a writing credit for you if he uses some of your work? Worth a shot I think. The worst he can say is "No, thanks." |
| Siran Dunmorgan02-14-06, 09:33 PM | I find your stuff to be an invaluable resource, FM. Have you sent any of your drafts to Keith? Could be a writing credit for you if he uses some of your work? Worth a shot I think. The worst he can say is "No, thanks." No, sadly, that's not the worst he can say. The actual worst he can say is that "you've had a number of good ideas here, and because you've gone and published them, and I've read them, and people at Wizards of the Coast have read them, and we'd already had or developed similar ideas, we now have to toss all of the work we'd done in developing these ideas or risk confusing the copyright by creating what will be percieved as a derivative work. Thanks a lot." Now, it's not likely that Mr. Baker, or the staff at Wizards of the Coast, will take this position, but they can, legitimately. It's happened before: I was talking about fan fiction with an editor at Tor a few years ago, and she noted that most Tor authors are clearly informed that they should avoid reading fan fiction for this reason. With respect to Mr. Baker personally—I can't speak for Wizards of the Coast in general, not having personal experience of them[1]—he's more likely to scoop up a handful of ideas and think "now what can I do with these?" You might not get official credit for the ideas, but you would have the satisfaction of seeing them in print. I know, because this happened to me a few months ago: the idea for the Tairnadal horses being descended from wildshaped Tairnadal druids—and therefore actually kin to their riders—that appeared in Druids of Khorvaire, Part IV was a concept that I'd posted to the boards, and that Hellcow warned me in advance that he'd use in official material. I've never gotten official acknowledgement for the idea, despite the clear post trail indicating that it was originally mine. More to the point, I don't expect official acknowledgement. —Siran Dunmorgan [1] Someone around here—I don't recall who, exactly: it was a few months ago—has mentioned that there has occasionally been a ruckus or two about posters on the Dungeons & Dragons boards wanting official recognition for idea they'd developed that had made their way into official products. Apparently, what received for their troubles was letters from Wizards of the Coast's attorneys warning them to stop making a ruckus or be sued for libel. Now this is hearsay, from me, since I heard it from a third party and can't verify the source, but maybe some of you reading this know what went on, and can provide more details that'll help us avoid these sorts of issues in the future. |
| Hellcow02-15-06, 12:36 AM | No, sadly, that's not the worst he can say. Unfortunately, SD is on the right track here. Personally, one of the reasons I'm looking forward to this book being released is so that *I* can finally read your thread, FBM; I've been avoiding it for just this reason. Having heard so many good things about your thread, I'll be very curious to finally see where our ideas intersect and diverge. |
| Flame_Drake02-15-06, 12:58 AM | Unfortunately, SD is on the right track here. Personally, one of the reasons I'm looking forward to this book being released is so that *I* can finally read your thread, FBM; I've been avoiding it for just this reason. Having heard so many good things about your thread, I'll be very curious to finally see where our ideas intersect and diverge. Out of curiosity, at this point, isn't the source book done, so you could look at the thread? I'd certainly understand if you waited until it was released so that we could see the differences also, and so that you could talk about them, but still, you can look at it, can't you? Drake |
| Hellcow02-15-06, 01:26 AM | Out of curiosity, at this point, isn't the source book done...? It's in editing, which means there's always the possibility of changes or rewrites. |
| Straylight02-15-06, 02:35 AM | It'll be interesting to see how much parallelism there is between FBM's stuff and the sourcebook. I find it difficult to believe anyone could top FBM's writeups (seriously, FBM... Paizo, WotC, Green Ronin, Privateer Press... someone.) Obviously we all think actually having you on-board for this sourcebook is one of the smarter things WotC's done in the last six months, but I'm actually looking forward to what Lyons had to contribute to that one. I assume we're all at least passingly familiar with Martin's seires (I'm working on A Feast For Crows now), and the sheer amount of work necessary to translate such dense writing into something loosely resembling D20 must have been staggering... can't wait to see what that experience can contribute to Eberron. I have a suspicion, though, that FBM's work will remain canon at my table even after the sourcebook is released. Yes, I like it that much. |
| Sieylianna02-15-06, 07:50 AM | [1] Someone around here—I don't recall who, exactly: it was a few months ago—has mentioned that there has occasionally been a ruckus or two about posters on the Dungeons & Dragons boards wanting official recognition for idea they'd developed that had made their way into official products. Apparently, what received for their troubles was letters from Wizards of the Coast's attorneys warning them to stop making a ruckus or be sued for libel. Wizards is good at suing people and threatening to sue people. They're far better at this than they are in honoring their contracts. Material from one of my RPGA adventures was copied verbatim into "City of Raven's Bluff". According to my contract, I should have been compensated, but I wasn't even credited in the book. Ed |
| Kid SixXx02-15-06, 12:39 PM | Unfortunately, SD is on the right track here. Personally, one of the reasons I'm looking forward to this book being released is so that *I* can finally read your thread, FBM; I've been avoiding it for just this reason. Having heard so many good things about your thread, I'll be very curious to finally see where our ideas intersect and diverge. That's a tragedy. Back in the good ol' days when discussion of novels wasn't taboo, quite a few of the active WoTC authors would hold online workshops. When the open call for the FR "Maiden of Pain" novel came about, several authors even helped to edit some of our work. My material made it to the final selection round before I got eliminated. :( I got a "We'll hold onto your material & perhaps call you later" letter instead of an outright rejection. To be honest, I was hoping to get tapped to pen an Eberron novel. :embarrass To judge my reaction to my letter saying I made it as far as I did, you'd have thought that my novel was the selected piece of work. :D It's sad that the amount of collaboration has dwindled significantly, but I see the legal ramifications of such collaborations. |
| Hellcow02-15-06, 01:17 PM | Back in the good ol' days when discussion of novels wasn't taboo, quite a few of the active WoTC authors would hold online workshops. And I'm all for that. I do often talk to people about freelancing and campaigns when I'm at conventions. The situation here is actually more complicated than pure legality. There is that aspect of things; among other things, as a freelancer myself I am in no way authorized to compensate or credit people. But there is a second level, which is that I want to explore *my* ideas. I've had ideas about the Dragonmarked Houses since they came into existence, and I want to develop those ideas on my own. While it may be ultimately a selfish decision - because for all I know, FBM's ideas are better than mine - the best part about working in a creative field is having the opportunity to create. If I participated in the thread, FBM, and you come up with something that's incredibly brilliant, that I can't imagine the house without, I'd still be unable to use it for the reasons SD mentions... and now I may find it harder to come up with an idea I'm happy with, because I'll be thinking "Yeah, but FBM's idea was cooler." I'd rather stay away, and hope I can come up with something as good on my own. Essentially, FBM, my not participating in the thread is a compliment, because I thought you might have ideas that were good enough that I didn't want to be influenced by them. At the end of the day, I don't expect Dragonmarked to eliminate the value of FBM's work. The main issue is the approach taken to certain houses: for example, I have certain fundamental ideas about Ghallanda, which I think is one of the most underestimated houses. If FBM has approached it, I'm sure he's done something to address this point. If we've gone in completely different directions, then yes, you'll have to choose the basic path you follow, and that may affect the use of material. But if we've gone in similar directions, then hopefully the two sources will compliment one another. If FBM has written about a particular Lyrandar custom, it seems unlikely to me that WotC presenting a canon description of Lyrandar would prevent you from saying "And they still have this custom." Honestly, we could write sourcebooks on EACH Dragonmarked house; while I think Dragonmarked will be a useful sourcebook, it's not going to be the absolute final word on the houses, and I wouldn't want it to be. |
| Rechan02-15-06, 01:29 PM | The main issue is the approach taken to certain houses: for example, I have certain fundamental ideas about Ghallanda, which I think is one of the most underestimated houses. One thing I'd really like to see out of the book then, is lots of fleshing out and plot hooks. Jorasco, Ghallanda, Vandalis, they're hard to come up with espianoge, dark things behind the scenes, etc etc, and easily fall to the wayside to the big bang-for-your-buck exciting Cannith/Shadow/Deneith houses. Although I've come up with a few ideas for these Houses, and think they're great, some fleshing out and aid to other DMs would be fantastic. |
| Kid SixXx02-15-06, 02:20 PM | But there is a second level, which is that I want to explore *my* ideas. Quite understandable. Hopefully I didn't imply that whatever you were working on could not top FBM's work. That would be presumptuous and absurd of me to say, given that the DM houses were your idea in the first place. Who better to flesh them out in an official source than you? If I did imply the above, then you have my apologies. I suppose that I'm still mourning the days when the relationship between fans & staff wasn't so adversarial in certain arenas, & am still hopefull that I'll see some of our stuff in official print (along with writing credits) one of these days. I've found FBM's work to be rather helpful in the interim & I suppose that when I heard that an official project was in the works, I sorta hoped that FBM would get some official spotlight time. |
| The Fireballed Mage02-15-06, 07:10 PM | But there is a second level, which is that I want to explore *my* ideas. I've had ideas about the Dragonmarked Houses since they came into existence, and I want to develop those ideas on my own. And I am as eager as everyone else to see your take on the Houses. If anything my write ups were done because I got impatient with the dearth of info on them. But judging by your Dragonshards, you cover things I never could or didn't want to attempt, such as the histories of the Houses. Your write up on Phiarlan had the inner working of the House, its history, and things like the Serpentine Table that I couldn't focus on: they were too specific. I could extrapolate what in general the Houses would be like, but specifics... I knew such things would have to wait for official sources. Essentially, FBM, my not participating in the thread is a compliment, because I thought you might have ideas that were good enough that I didn't want to be influenced by them. Ack! Defeated by my own brillance! :D And I understand your position. Heck, I think I even mentioned in the thread that Intellectual Property rights and such would prevent you from taking a look. I am very interested in seeing what happens with Ghallanda, Tharashk, Jorasco and the others I had difficulty getting inside of. |
| Hellcow02-15-06, 07:28 PM | If anything my write ups were done because I got impatient with the dearth of info on them. Absolutely. I'm frustrated that it's taken this long for official information, and I'm always glad to have people out there providing the information people need. And again, from all accounts, it sounds like you've done a great job. I am very interested in seeing what happens with Ghallanda, Tharashk, Jorasco and the others I had difficulty getting inside of. Well, Ghallanda and Tharashk are in fact two of the houses I worked on (with three houses, I didn't work on them all), and I have a strong interest in both houses. So hopefully there will be something useful in the book even for you. ;) If I did imply the above, then you have my apologies. Not at all, Kid SixXx! It's not a contest. I'm the first to admit that FBM's material MAY be better than mine. But that doesn't stop me from wanting to explore my own ideas. ;) |
| Flame_Drake02-15-06, 07:39 PM | Well, Ghallanda and Tharashk are in fact two of the houses I worked on (with three houses, I didn't work on them all), and I have a strong interest in both houses. So hopefully there will be something useful in the book even for you. ;) Another curiousity (although I predict NDA for both of these) but did the three of you split up the houses and talk about al of them with each other, or just split them and have at it? And completely unrelated, but is there much mention of House Tarkanan? Drake |
| Majorafire7702-15-06, 08:03 PM | Can we expect any information in the book about any of the House Cannith sects other than Cannith South? Cannith South is cool and all, but I think it'd be interenting for us to see what goes on in the Aundair and Karrnath portions of the house. |
| Hellcow02-15-06, 08:07 PM | although I predict NDA for both of these And you are right to do so. It's really too early for me to talk about specifics about what's in the book. You know the title and who worked on it, and it's not a great leap to guess the subject matter, but I really should divulge any more information than that at this time. I'll let you know more as soon as I'm allowed to. |
| aelryinth02-15-06, 08:12 PM | Being how much House Lyrandar is beloved by the role player, and Cannith by prominence in the setting, I'm actually suprised you picked two of the less important Houses to deal with, Hellcow. Of course, if the writers knew the setting, they'd be chafing at the bit to cover those two Houses themselves. Lyrandar alone is going to be the most thoroughly scrutinized article by many people on the boards...we want the half-elves to be THE cool House and race for Eberron, and if someone mucks it up for us, we are going to ride them unmercifully. ==Aelryinth |
| Hellcow02-15-06, 08:21 PM | Being how much House Lyrandar is beloved by the role player, and Cannith by prominence in the setting, I'm actually suprised you picked two of the less important Houses to deal with, Hellcow. First, bear in mind that I am a freelancer. When I work on a book, it's not like I just get to pick out the good bits and leave the scraps for everyone else. There's some room for discussion and swapping between authors, but at the end of the day I do the work that's assigned to me. Second, the perception of important vs. non-important houses is precisely the reason I wanted to work on Ghallanda. People may think a house of innkeepers can't be interesting, but hey, a few years ago they might have said the same things about gnomes and half-elves. It's easy to understand what makes Cannith cool... and I like a challenge. ;) |
| AvonRekaes02-15-06, 08:25 PM | Wow, I never thought of it that way... Well, I await to see how you make innkeepers cool! Just... do us all a favor... make sure the guys working on the Human and Elf houses know about the "NO HALF-ELVES" rule. |
| Euangelion02-15-06, 08:39 PM | Being how much House Lyrandar is beloved by the role player, and Cannith by prominence in the setting, I'm actually suprised you picked two of the less important Houses to deal with, Hellcow. Of course, if the writers knew the setting, they'd be chafing at the bit to cover those two Houses themselves. Lyrandar alone is going to be the most thoroughly scrutinized article by many people on the boards...we want the half-elves to be THE cool House and race for Eberron, and if someone mucks it up for us, we are going to ride them unmercifully. ==Aelryinth No one should ever mistake "subtle" for "unimportant" when it comes to Dragonmarked Houses. Just the very fact that you failed to mention the Khoravar House Medani speaks volumes to the need to remember that fact. ;) An army may fight with Cannith weapons and armor, but it will never make it to battle if the general and her staff are slumped dead over their poisoned breakfast! |
| Azazyll02-15-06, 09:00 PM | Second, the perception of important vs. non-important houses is precisely the reason I wanted to work on Ghallanda. People may think a house of innkeepers can't be interesting, but hey, a few years ago they might have said the same things about gnomes and half-elves. It's easy to understand what makes Cannith cool... and I like a challenge. ;) I am extremely excited that you are doing Ghallanda, I've wanted to play a ghallanda halfing almost since the setting came out, but alas, I always wind up as DM. Frankly I never found Cannith or Lyrander all that interesting. Anyone who's ever heard of Jheeves and Wooster, and to a lesser extent Alfred from Batman, knows that the butler can be a force in his own right. particularly when he knows a bunch of dinosaur riding halfing barbarians who probably owe him favors. plus there's the thrill of taking a game mechanic that's definitely not for power gamers, like the dragon marks for Ghallanda or even Medani or Tharashk and working with roleplaying instead of rollplaying. It is precisely Eberron's theme as a world of intrigue that allows the people who fill supporting positions to have the most innfluence. |
| The Fireballed Mage02-15-06, 11:43 PM | Second, the perception of important vs. non-important houses is precisely the reason I wanted to work on Ghallanda. People may think a house of innkeepers can't be interesting, but hey, a few years ago they might have said the same things about gnomes and half-elves. So completely, and so utterly true. When I did my House write-ups I did the 'non-PC interactive' Houses first, because I wanted to get out information on them before hitting the ones PCs were familiar with. If for nothing else than those who were only interested in Cannith/Deneith/Orien/Lyrandar would be forced --forced I say!-- to read about the other Houses and hopefully get their creative juices flowing. Ghallanda and Tharashk! Cool! Two of the Houses I had some of the most trouble actually getting things down for. |
| Vrellum02-16-06, 11:14 AM | I hope there's something in there for House Orien. It seems they keep coming up on the short end of the stick. In particular they keep getting upstaged by house Lyrander. You want to travel by sea, then House Lyrander is what you want. You want to travel by land, then maybe you want to use Orien, unless you need to go east. Then you've got to go with Lyrander because of the mourning and the loss of, of, well I don't remember the name of the bridge right now, but anyway Orien can't get you there. Well, they could teleport you, but the cost is so prohibitive that I doubt anyone ever teleports anywhere. Why is it that the House of the Mark of Passage isn't better at getting you somewhere than a house that specializes in the weather? |
| DarkWarriorKarg02-16-06, 12:11 PM | Never mind the actual contents... I'll ask the important question: Is there an index? |
| Korhal_IV02-16-06, 12:26 PM | Never mind the actual contents... I'll ask the important question: Is there an index? Karg's got his priorities in the right order here! :D |
| MrFilthyIke02-16-06, 12:54 PM | Ghallanda and Tharashk! Cool! Two of the Houses I had some of the most trouble actually getting things down for. Agreed, as the only DM PC in my group is from Tharashk, she's going to get the good stuff from Keith. :D |
| Euangelion02-16-06, 01:31 PM | At least Tharashk got some love with the section on the Finders Guild in MoE. Apart from a few magic items/spells in MoE and the stuff in the ECS, I can't think of anything that has any information on Medani, not even in S:CoT, and that's even with Medani being based in Breland! In fact, just off the top of my head, I think Medani is the only DM house not mentioned in S:CoT. Deneith, Cannith, Sivis, Phiarlan, Tharashk, Vadalis, Lyrnandar, Ghallandra, Jorasco, Kundarak, Orien, all there. One brief mention of Thuranni (in the I, Spy sidebar), but none that I can remember on Medani. So Medani should get at least one PrC, and Cannith none, in the Dragonmarked sourcebook! ;) |
| MrFilthyIke02-16-06, 03:49 PM | So Medani should get at least one PrC, and Cannith none, in the Dragonmarked sourcebook! ;) No body loves those damn, dirty Half-Elves!! ;) :P |
| BrotherDog02-17-06, 01:00 AM | Damn! This sounds like another book I want, but won't bother getting. I have no reliable fellow gamers in my area. Plus no DMs other my self, when I'd rathe be a player for once. :( |