| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Guide D'Jorasco07-17-05, 07:30 AM | Omg this is the worst RTS I have EVER played. I am DEEPLY saddened by Atari's work. This gets the lowest rating possible to mankind in my book. They destroyed the way Eberron was meant to be and I am horrified at the graphics, content, LOGO, sounds, build system and leveling system. Innovation is NOT always good and this is a prime example. If you buy this game, you are just blowing money. Try the Demo if you don't believe me. Also it is hosted on Gamespy, the worst server ever! I will never pick this game up and hide it behind something every time I see it so it doesn't hurt another Eberron Enthusiast's eyes. I feel sorry for Keith, having to watch his campaign be used in such a horrible game! edit: your right about it though, this was kind of a sad post. I posted it at 4 am after finally installing Dragonshard and playing it. So I apologize if this was so "noob" as Tek said. It was fun starting though! Already over 1,000 views and 50 posts. Not bad for a noob lol. |
| Illvillainy07-17-05, 07:47 AM | I'm enjoying it myself. *shrugs* |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-17-05, 07:59 AM | That's fine if you enjoy it, but me, personally, I think it could have been done a lot better. It just seems that their rushing Eberron, trying to make it Forgotten Realms popular in a year, it's insane and it, to me, could ruin it over all. |
| The White Sorcerer07-17-05, 08:14 AM | They destroyed the way Eberron was meant to be How? |
| Insignia)07-17-05, 10:44 AM | I always longed to see a DNDish RTS... I'd love to give it a shot, but I can't seem to find the demo you're talking about. Anyone got a link/url? ~I |
| Brastan07-17-05, 11:53 AM | I always longed to see a DNDish RTS... I'd love to give it a shot, but I can't seem to find the demo you're talking about. Anyone got a link/url? ~I It's called Warcraft 3 Frozen Thrown. Have you looked at the engine Blizzard used to power combat in the map editor? They use 'dice' d4s, d6s, d8s. d10s. As to Dragonshard I'd take a look myself but emulating windows at the level of Pentium (one) without access to the graphics card stops me from actually playing Windows games on my machine. Like the books, events in this game will likely not be considered cannon so I don't worry one way another. As a side note Guide D'Jorasco I was absolute ferrous with what Blizzard had done to Warcraft when they made 3, but over time it has grown on me and I now understand it for what its. Each RTS has a different strategy that works best. Do all units level or just PC like units? This "Nexus System" of theirs sounds like the original Warcraft system were you had to build next to the roads you put down but with benefit to certain layouts. Oh any sign of a map editor or way to make planned ingame cutscenes with it? |
| Illvillainy07-17-05, 01:21 PM | It's a multiplayer only demo and the game's not out til September. Only Captains (squad leaders) level - the higher the level they are, the higher the number of squad members they command. It's plays like a cross between Warcraft 3 and Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War. Since there's so much stuff to do, a game lasts very long. Heh, I'm undefeated after 3 games with non-AI opponents. Either I'm playing rubbish players or I'm actually good at it. |
| ChronosCrow07-17-05, 02:33 PM | I think its fun. |
| Crimsonsun07-17-05, 02:53 PM | Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War. mmmm evil pink anime space marines..... :blink: did i just say that outloud? *runs* |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-17-05, 05:17 PM | How? Eberron is your exciting movie campaign in a sense. Atari has been bleeding Xendrik for all it's worth, Dragonshard AND DDO. I don't like this concept. Just because Xendrik was left to anyone to fill in, doesn't mean Atari should decide it's faith in a year or two! This Dragonshard game, if were done in Khorvaire also, would be MUCH better. I have not seen a multiplayer map editor and I think it might be difficult due to the fact that there are large dungeons beneath the map. Only Captains (squad leaders) level - the higher the level they are, the higher the number of squad members they command. I may be wrong, but I swear I leveled up my regular guys. It's hard to really understand, because you start off with your main captain and then produce buildings which produce units. The thing is, is that I DID level these guys up. From what I understood, you can level all of them up. |
| Raziel_Brokodar07-17-05, 05:26 PM | Eberron is your exciting movie campaign in a sense. Atari has been bleeding Xendrik for all it's worth, Dragonshard AND DDO. I don't like this concept. Just because Xendrik was left to anyone to fill in, doesn't mean Atari should decide it's faith in a year or two! This Dragonshard game, if were done in Khorvaire also, would be MUCH better. HAHAHA yup! :D (also I think Atari should stop making D&D games...) |
| Raziel_Brokodar07-17-05, 05:28 PM | Omg this is the worst RTS I have EVER played. I am DEEPLY saddened by Atari's work. This gets the lowest rating possible to mankind in my book. They destroyed the way Eberron was meant to be and I am horrified at the graphics, content, LOGO, sounds, build system and leveling system. Innovation is NOT always good and this is a prime example. If you buy this game, you are just blowing money. Try the Demo if you don't believe me. Also it is hosted on Gamespy, the worst server ever! I will never pick this game up and hide it behind something every time I see it so it doesn't hurt another Eberron Enthusiast's eyes. I feel sorry for Keith, having to watch his campaign be used in such a horrible game! Also second this... though I'm smart enough to stay away from it altogether... :P |
| The White Sorcerer07-17-05, 05:30 PM | Eberron is your exciting movie campaign in a sense. Atari has been bleeding Xendrik for all it's worth, Dragonshard AND DDO. I don't like this concept. Just because Xendrik was left to anyone to fill in, doesn't mean Atari should decide it's faith in a year or two! This Dragonshard game, if were done in Khorvaire also, would be MUCH better. And how, pray tell, has this "destroyed the way Eberron was meant to be?" |
| Hellcow07-17-05, 05:35 PM | Just because Xendrik was left to anyone to fill in, doesn't mean Atari should decide it's faith in a year or two! I wouldn't worry about this. The Ring of Storms - where the game is set - is barely a spot on the map of Xen'drik. Xen'drik is HUGE. Just because Atari and Turbine say "Here are things that may be somewhere in Xen'drik" doesn't mean YOU have to have your PCs run into them. |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-17-05, 07:32 PM | And how, pray tell, has this "destroyed the way Eberron was meant to be?" Put it this way. The FIRST RTS is done in Eberron. Atari had as much freedom as possible and exercised it tremendously. Although the RTS is kind of growing on me, due to it's new system of game play, I am still saddened that it wasn't done in the traditional Eberron style of setting. I can understand the concept behind everyone coming to the Ring of Storms, but it's still not Eberron! Maybe "destroyed" was a strong word, but it sure hindered the setting, in my eyes, by uniting all of these races, when, if i'm not mistaken, the Last War, JUST ended. So where is the Dreaming Dark, Blood of Vol, etc. Shouldn't THEY be in this as well? Instead Atari added those two other races- when in fact it should have been set up in a faction sense. Order of the Emerald Claw (undead types), Order of the Silver Flame (Lawful good), Darguun( Goblin) etc. That would have been MUCH better. Also to note, Champions or captains do NOT level up. They start off at the top and can't go lower or higher. Your minions DO level up and gain more special abilities. Which is awesome! Thanks for posting Keith! |
| InfinityStar807-17-05, 08:17 PM | Ok, question no one has answered; HOW do you play the Demo? I went to Dragonshard.com and it said something about Fileplanet.com. So I went their but from what I can tell you wither can't download it their or you have to pay $7 to be a member then you can download it. Is that what I have to do, pay to become a member just to download the demo? Please someone help me. |
| N-|)07-17-05, 08:30 PM | From what I have seen there are two types of gameplay. Pretty much like warcraft 3. In one you lead armies, in the other you have adventurers going into dungeons. The game isn't even out yet so i'm willing to give it a chance. |
| InfinityStar807-17-05, 08:33 PM | From what I have seen there are two types of gameplay. Pretty much like warcraft 3. In one you lead armies, in the other you have adventurers going into dungeons. The game isn't even out yet so i'm willing to give it a chance. Mind saying How/Where you get the Beta? Please... |
| N-|)07-17-05, 08:39 PM | Mind saying How/Where you get the Beta? Please... I'm actually wondering this myself. As of right now if you go to www.dragonshard.com you can't download any demo. They do have some people beta testing but I think the have all of the positions filled up. You can however watch a couple movies which are pretty cool. |
| Tek07-17-05, 10:51 PM | I like the game. I don't think its the devils spawn that Guide D'Jorasco keeps obsessing about, as if we played it we are helping destroy Eberron. You should really think about your points over again, because you are saying that an RTS should play like a normal D&D campaign. That doesn't even make any sense. Stop bashing it just because its not how you run your campaign. As for downloading the game: go here (http://www.fileplanet.com/betacenter/dragonshard/signup/) , make yourself a FREE fileplanet account, and fill out the information. The beta is open therefore it is free. |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-17-05, 10:52 PM | Go to file planet. Type in DragonShard. Download it. Then make sure that you get a registration code. http://www.fileplanet.com/152339/150000/fileinfo/Dragonshard-Multiplayer-Demo-[OPEN-TO-PUBLIC] No, you do NOT have to be a member. You do have to sign up though, but you do not have to pay 7 dollars. Just sign up, download the program. MAKE SURE you click Sign up here because the demo requires a CD-key to be played. There ya go. |
| The White Sorcerer07-18-05, 02:43 AM | I am still saddened that it wasn't done in the traditional Eberron style of setting. I can understand the concept behind everyone coming to the Ring of Storms, but it's still not Eberron! How isn't Xen'drik a "traditional Eberron style of setting?" the Last War, JUST ended. So where is the Dreaming Dark, Blood of Vol, etc. Shouldn't THEY be in this as well? Why should they, and what does it have to do with the War? Instead Atari added those two other races Which two? I only know of the umbragen. |
| Beleriphon07-18-05, 03:12 AM | Which two? I only know of the umbragen. Lizardmen, which aren't new. The lizardmen have been around quite a while, Liquid Entertainment added them for the jungley setting, and I think they work well. I should also like to point out that the current demo is multiplayer only, so it has no story, no information, and no quests. Thats right, the single player story line will involve mission based quest, NPCs to interact with (that give quests and are optional). Also to note, Champions or captains do NOT level up. They start off at the top and can't go lower or higher. Your minions DO level up and gain more special abilities. Which is awesome! Actaully Captains do level up. Whenever you summon new troops you get a field captain of the type you want. They then through leveling up gain more squad mates, to a max of four. Thus, I could by getting 5 Silver Flame Paladins eventually end up with 20 troops to fight with. As for champions (ie. named characters), they do not level up in the multiplayer demo. I imagine that in the single player game it makes sense for them to do so as part of the story. Either way they are disgustingly powerful, I really like Bastion for the smashiness. BTW, did anybody else notice how warforged titans get a squad of normal warforged as they level up? |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-18-05, 04:36 AM | How isn't Xen'drik a "traditional Eberron style of setting?" First off, stop taking what I say out of context! It's really annoying. I didn't say Xen'drik wasn't a traditional Eberron setting, it's in Eberron! What I am targetting is the way the role playing aspects are. It is suppose to be this pulp noir kind of setting. Instead they have trashed all of that for this Dragonshard game it seems. I'm sure somewhere in there you'll find something to question even further. Why should they, and what does it have to do with the War? First off, I mentioned the Last War, which if you know anything about the Eberron Campaign Setting, it is over, sort of. After the war there have been many power groups slowly and surely trying to gain power over Khorvaire and even some over the world. It is only LOGICAL to include these types of organizations due to their Eberron origins and relationship to Khorvaire and all of Eberron. Which two? I only know of the umbragen. The lizardfolk are also in this game, but it's the lizardfolk! Come on! The power groups in Eberron would have been MUCH better! Of course the lizardfolk has been around forever, but that doesn't give it tier one access to being part of a trinity of races. I mean seriously, lizardfolk and umbragen? Umbragen sounds cool, but it sounds like the Pokemon. They should have the Dreaming Dark, The Blood of Vol, The Emerald Claw and stuff like that! That would have been so much more Eberron. Actaully Captains do level up. Whenever you summon new troops you get a field captain of the type you want. They then through leveling up gain more squad mates, to a max of four. Thus, I could by getting 5 Silver Flame Paladins eventually end up with 20 troops to fight with. As for champions (ie. named characters), they do not level up in the multiplayer demo. I realized that today, that each unit you create is actually a field captain with what seems to be followers. I noticed the normal warforged with the juggernauts also! So awesome, but it makes sense, because there is one standing with a Juggernaut (artificer I believe) in the ECS. |
| Illvillainy07-18-05, 04:39 AM | Didn't Keith write at least the outline of the single player campaign plot? |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-18-05, 04:42 AM | I'm not sure. Hopefully so. Maybe we can except some good things from the single player, who knows. But I am still saddened at some of the choices for races and such. |
| The White Sorcerer07-18-05, 04:57 AM | Instead they have trashed all of that for this Dragonshard game it seems. How? |
| Tek07-18-05, 05:52 AM | Are you even really listening to yourself anymore Guide? You are bashing the game because it is not how YOU run YOUR Eberron game. You must be crazy. I'm not even going to do the point - counterpoint thing because I don't think you even understand how foolish you look right now. |
| The White Sorcerer07-18-05, 06:51 AM | Just because Xendrik was left to anyone to fill in, doesn't mean Atari should decide it's faith in a year or two! So, in your opinion, they should instead decide Khorvaire's fate? |
| AlDaRoN Arg07-18-05, 07:35 AM | It's a RTS so there is no way to make it pulp or noir. |
| Insignia)07-18-05, 08:06 AM | It's a RTS so there is no way to make it pulp or noir. Actually, there is. However, we're yet to actually see the campaign, and judging atmosphere based on a multiplayer-only demo experience is kind of... well, childish at best. I'm just downloading the thing. Hope it proves Guide wrong. :pbbbtt: ~I |
| The White Sorcerer07-18-05, 08:25 AM | It's a RTS so there is no way to make it pulp or noir. Yeah, and how on Eberron would they use the Dreaming Dark in an RTS? |
| N-|)07-18-05, 09:37 AM | Okay who here has played WarCraft 3? If you were to judge the game by just the multiplayer you wouldn't know about, (1) The awesome story line, (2) The awesome cinematics, (3) The Dungeon Crawling levels, (4) Everything else that isnt muliplayer. So it's stupid to judge a game by the multiplayer, especially BETA muiltiplayer, its a beta for a reason, you are supposed to test it and give feedback. |
| Streamweaver07-18-05, 10:05 AM | Saying something is the worst RTS game of all time is kind of like saying something is the worst beating of all time, the reality is they all kind of stink. ...Well to me at least. The truth is talks of worst or best are kind of missplaced here because it's a matter of personal taste. I personally don't enjoy RTS games but there are people who do and more power to them. I think the only real relavence this game has to these forums is how much of Eberron come across in the game. Unfortunatly I didn't really feel anything of eberron in this game however I want to point out that what's been released so far is only the multiplayer beta as far as I know. That wouldn't have any story in it at all and all the units/buildings are kind of presented out of context, so it's a little early to start dinging the game completely. |
| Insignia)07-18-05, 11:14 AM | I've played warcraft 3 ever since the first beta came out (being active on battlenet to this day), and I remember well how much the game evolved and improved before final release... As I've stated before, the first beta is (and I can't stress this enough) not something you can use to assess the overall quality of a game. I think the problem here is that people who like Eberron but dislike RTS games in general have a problem with "their setting" being used in such a product. Personally, I'll try the game before passing judgement. ~I |
| N-|)07-18-05, 01:13 PM | I've been playing it all morning and so far I think it is pretty sweet. |
| ENHenry07-18-05, 01:36 PM | I vote this thread as highly entertaining - It went from "the sky is falling" to "parts of it are awesome" in about 20 posts. :) I don't expect to get into this game, but I wouldn't knock it based on a DEMO, nor on what it will be like when they have a full crew of people playing it under live conditions. Also, as far as I know, there IS no single player mode (not in the sense of "unplugged from the internet," anyway) so there's not much to say about that. |
| Insignia)07-18-05, 02:03 PM | I just tried it, and I can't say that I'm impressed... They've had great potential in their hands, but they kinda ruined it. Here's why (note that this is my personal opinion and by no means final at that): -They used C&C/LotR interface. I simply can't get myself to like it after having played Starcraft/Warcraft. Advanced shortcuts and micro are virtually inexistant. -Poorly chosen/designed factions. The full release may bring changes and/or new things, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Perhaps Keith would be kind enough to provide some insider info... ;) There are other, rather minor flaws, but these two bug me the most. Otherwise, the game seems pretty good. ~I |
| Tek07-18-05, 03:33 PM | Also, as far as I know, there IS no single player mode (not in the sense of "unplugged from the internet," anyway) so there's not much to say about that. That is because it is a multiplayer demo. Multiplayer. The full game will feature a single player mode with, as quoted from their site, a "Game story created by Eberron designer Keith Baker." |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-18-05, 03:58 PM | Are you even really listening to yourself anymore Guide? You are bashing the game because it is not how YOU run YOUR Eberron game. You must be crazy. I'm not even going to do the point - counterpoint thing because I don't think you even understand how foolish you look right now. Dude, that statment you just made makes absolutely no sense. You are saying how 'I' run a game? I'm not saying how I run my game, i'm targetting how the Eberron Campaign Setting is wrote. And I don't run my game like an RTS Tek, but anyways.... I must be crazy? LAME ...how foolish you look right now. LAME, and I posted this thread to put my view point out there and I daresay people agree with me on many points. Was that your attempt at a rebuttal, because it was very poor. You had nothing you were trying to prove, just your cliche, "I don't like what you said so i'm going to bash the author". Do you know how foolish YOU sound? Anyways back to the main point. Dragonshard has the following bad and good. Bad - Three Race choices - Two of the choices, (umbragen and lizardfolk) aren't even a vital point in Eberron when they could of, in fact, used organizations like the Blood of Vol, Order of the Emerald Claw, Dhakkani Goblin tribes etc. -Sound so far is mediocre. - Atari is using Xendrik too much. (Dragonshard and DDO) - No "mach" instruction booklet for Beta (lol some of us need it) - Hot keys hardly exist (agreeing with Insignia)) - Graphics have not improve since Warcraft III, but are adequate. - Units sometimes go against the norm of Eberron - The Last War is over. You shouldn't be able to build all these creation forges. Good - Innovative experience system - Brand new building style - Resource gathering is top notch - Fun 'creeping' system in the dungeons Want - A skill investment for Dragonmarked houses. (What I mean is that the player should have the option to invest ambassadors or another form of investment in Dragonmarked houses, which would have an overall effect on all of the units. - Other races/organizations. Blood of Vol, Order of the Emerald Claw etc. If the above organizations aren't put in then have it where you can recruit them from mercenary houses or something to that effect. As you can see I was pretty fair in my judgement. The thing that overall made me dissapointed in it were race choices, sound and no advances in graphics. |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-18-05, 04:12 PM | Yeah, and how on Eberron would they use the Dreaming Dark in an RTS? Are you just replying because you don't want to take the time to look into it yourself? I'll assume that's the case. Let me elaborate on how the Dreaming Dark could have been in this RTS. "The Dreaming Dark, a secret order of psionic spies and assassins, serves as the eyes and hands of the quori in Dal Quor, the Region of Dreams. While it generally seems to be allied with the Inspired lords of Riedra, the goals of the Dreaming Dark are subtle and mysterious- and always deadly."- ECS, Pp. 240 As you can see The Dreaming Dark could be easily incorporated. With the focus being subtleness and assassination, they could easily play into the game as the "sneaky" enemy. You could use Quori to take over enemy units of all kind and even produce your own Riederan human slaves in which could be further trained as specialized units. Come on The White Sorcerer, are you even thinking? The Dreaming Dark could have traveled to Xendrik for the Dragonshard's in hopes that the shard could help turn the tide of the war, or create some kind of parallel universe in which the Quori could travel and start a massive conquest of Khorvaire. Who knows. As for the other organizations, you could have The Emerald Claw trying to retrieve it for uses in making an Eldritch Machine or some other nefarious plot. It only makes SENSE to use Eberron organizations, considering this IS put in Eberron. I never even read anything in the ECS about these Umbragen or much, if any, about the Lizardfolk. Well there you go, i'm sure you'll find more to quote and post without delving into what I was saying. Do you even think about the posts? I mean seriously, start thinking about what i'm saying and you'll see that I do make sense. |
| Insignia)07-18-05, 04:31 PM | I must say, even though he seemed a bit overly frustrated at first, Guide D'Jorasco made some pretty good points here. I agree completely, except for this: - Brand new building style It's not brand new... In fact, it's been used in many recently published RTS games (I mentioned C&C:Generals and LotR:Battle for Middle Earth). :( I guess Keith just spoiled us into expecting too much... I'm sure the campaign will rock though. :thumbsup: ~I |
| ENHenry07-18-05, 04:52 PM | The full game will feature a single player mode with, as quoted from their site, a "Game story created by Eberron designer Keith Baker." Hmmm... I missed this in the interviews, because all the focus was on the multiplayer aspect. If this is true, I may have to pick this up after all! While I have no interest any longer in getting into a MMORPG again, an Eberron D&D computer game is definitely worth looking at. EDIT -- Upon reading Dragonshard's site, I find myself totally flabbergasted. I've been laboring for about 9 months under the misconception that Dragonshard and D&D Online were the same game. D'OH! :embarrass I'll have to check more into Dragonshard, though I'm not a huge fan of Real-Time Strategy games, either. |
| Tek07-18-05, 05:55 PM | As you can see The Dreaming Dark could be easily incorporated. With the focus being subtleness and assassination, they could easily play into the game as the "sneaky" enemy. You could use Quori to take over enemy units of all kind and even produce your own Riederan human slaves in which could be further trained as specialized units. That sounds, as you put it, pretty "LAME." I don't know about you, but I sure don't see the Dreaming Dark as a group who would get into a full blown out military battle with some group of humans, some umbragen, and some lizardfolk. If the Dreaming Dark was after what the three were after, the power groups wouldn't even know. Until it was too late. I don't see them going around taking down bases and posesssing everybody while creating legions and legions of Inspired soldiers to go and fight some drow. It only makes SENSE to use Eberron organizations, considering this IS put in Eberron. I never even read anything in the ECS about these Umbragen or much, if any, about the Lizardfolk. The Umbragen were created and featured in a Dragon Magazine article by Keith Baker. It makes perfect sense for them to be on Xen'drik searching for the Shard, since you know, it is their home and all. Now I'll go into your review. Three Race choices The norm for most RTS games. Two of the choices, (umbragen and lizardfolk) aren't even a vital point in Eberron when they could of, in fact, used organizations like the Blood of Vol, Order of the Emerald Claw, Dhakkani Goblin tribes etc. Had they used any of those, no doubt you'd probably be endlessly complaining about how they messed them up. edit: Also, note the fact that most of those, (Blood of Vol, Order of the Emerald Claw) would be pretty much humans and other of the similar race. They used the Lizardmen, Umbragen, and Humans because of the difference in race, I would guess. No "mach" instruction booklet for Beta I can't believe that you can actually even THINK of using this as an excuse why the game is bad. BETA. Dude, that statment you just made makes absolutely no sense. You are saying how 'I' run a game? I'm not saying how I run my game, i'm targetting how the Eberron Campaign Setting is wrote. And I don't run my game like an RTS Tek, but anyways.... You've been saying the game is crap since the beginning because it doesn't have an "Eberron feel" to it. This leads back to you, since "Eberron Feel" comes directly from campaigns you run or play in. The Eberron feel that you get is created when you play in these games. Yes, the setting was built for a certain type of feel, but no-where in the whole Campaign setting book does it say that it HAS to be run like that. Thus, you are bashing the game because it does not have the 'feel' that you get while running or playing in your Eberron campaigns. LAME, and I posted this thread to put my view point out there and I daresay people agree with me on many points. You didn't HAVE a main point until I bashed your lousy, "this game sucks because it isn't how my Eberron is." Don't forget that your big post full of goods and bads of the game didn't come until AFTER I posted my view of your original reasons for bashing the game. Let me illustrate. They destroyed the way Eberron was meant to be. That makes no sense at all. Eberron wasn't meant to be set in stone with ONE WAY to play the game. It was built specifically so that as a DM you could fine tune it and set it up a way that you WANTED it to be. Read the ECS again. Loads of stuff are up to the DM to set up, because they don't like things being set in stone like FR. Dragonshard is the game designers viewpoint on Eberron. I am horrified at the graphics, content, LOGO, sounds, build system and leveling system. Hmm, you pretty much just bashed everything in the game because you EXPECTED everyone to agree with you. Then, after the disagreements and me calling you a bloody idiot, suddenly you've changed. Lets look at what you have under "Good" - Innovative experience system (Hmm. I guess they DO have a good leveling system, eh?) - Brand new building style (Hmm, strange, you seemed to have just bashed the horrible horrible build system in your first post) Now, I will admit that you FINALLY did write up a post that doesn't deserved to be horrible bashed, the one where you did the goods, bads, and the wants. It took you something like six posts to do so, and AFTER two other forum posters kept trying to illustrate how your original points didn't have foundation for you calling the game 'The Worst RTS EVAR!!!!11" Next time, try using that Good, Bad, Want system as your first post. |
| Galen_Michael07-18-05, 06:51 PM | Just a quick note for everyone who is concerned that the Ring of Storms, Umbragen and lizardfolk have no place in Eberron: If you check out Dungeon #122 and Dragon #330 there is some great background material (by Keith Baker) that may make their inclusion in the game a little more palatable. Although the Umbragen and the Ring of Storms (including the lizardfolk dwelling within) were created solely for the RTS game, the background story for the Ring of Storms and the Heart of Siberys (and even the Umbragen) is still pretty cool. I especially recommend the Ring of Storms article in Dungeon #122. Peace, Galen |
| Majorafire7707-18-05, 07:18 PM | Guide D'Jorasco: There aren't too many RTS's that are based on other things (the only two that come to mind are the LOTR one and this one), so I think that you're being a little too harsh. It seems like people such as yourself are whining about how this game isn't "true to Eberron". Honestly, was the LOTR game completely, 100% true to it? I highly doubt it. What if you stopped thinking that this is a game for Eberron fans and started thinking that this game is meant to be for more people than just us. It's obvious that they want the game to appeal to people who play games such as Warcraft 3 or Age of Empires as well. It's an RTS game, not an Eberron game. Keep that in mind. I personally think that they did a good job in choosing the races/orginazations for this game even if they're not "true to Eberron". When you look at them from the standard RTS player's point of view, are they interesting? I think so. While I can't really see Eberron being put into an RTS, it seems like it could work, if they pull it off right. To me, "spawn more overlords!" or "harvester under attack! (NOD guy's voice) + dnd = lol, but that's just me. |
| Tek07-18-05, 07:55 PM | This is just me, but I think if the RTS was set during the Last War it could have been really ultra cool. But that's me. I still like the game, for a game, though. |
| Airship_Pirate07-18-05, 09:02 PM | I've been looking forward to this game for quite a while, though I haven't played any of the demos. From what I've seen, it looks pretty good. I wouldn't judge a game by a demo... |
| Wotc_Mark07-18-05, 09:10 PM | You can try and get into the beta testing at http://www.betatests.net I just got back from vacation and I realized that their is a patch for the beta now available but I haven't had a chance to download and see what that changes in the game. MJ :cool: |
| N-|)07-18-05, 09:36 PM | One thing to keep in mind. Everyone keeps saying "Demo". It isn't a demo, it's a Beta, it has gliches out the wazzo, there is ultimately no sound, the menus suck, etc. The whole point of doing this isn't for people to play the game before it comes out. The point is for players who want the game to be the best it can be to play it, and email all the bugs they can find so the game can be the best it can be. I think everyone is getting a little carried away. This isn't the finally version by a long shot, and we haven't even seen a glimpsh of single palyer yet. Now on to my personal oppinions. So far the gameplay is great, I am a big RTS fan and I think this game has alot of uniuqe-ness while still using alot of formulas that are proven to work. I actually like the race choices because I think they fit well into Xen'drik, it wouldn't make sense to have humans, versus dwarves versus elves! If you look at it the Human team is actually composed of the common races. Lizard folk has more than just lizard folk, there is kobolds and other creatures mixed in. Also you can't really mess Xen'drik up because there is pretty much no information about 99% of the continent. |
| MysticTheurge07-18-05, 10:02 PM | One thing to keep in mind. Everyone keeps saying "Demo". It isn't a demo, it's a Beta Actually from what I can tell there is a Demo, which is separate from the Beta. Unless Guide d'Jorasco is in the Beta, I'm guessing he's playing the Demo just like most of the rest of us, where you can only do multiplayer and you only have three maps. (Of course since the Beta's still open it's probably really only a Beta Demo.) In which case it seems kind of silly to complain that there's no manual. Of course there's no manual, it's a demo. I'm also going to chime in and say I like the three "races" they've chosen (and if I had to guess I'd say Kieth had something to do with the choice.) The Umbragen and Lizardfolk are Xen'drik natives, and while something like House Thraashk might've made more sense for a team from Khorvaire, I can certainly understand wanting to have a Human-Good Team, and Silver Flame fits the bill perfectly. I think using the Dreaming Dark in this game would've been an awful idea, for all the reasons already given. And Dhakaani Goblinoids can barely keep their tiny nation under control, I don't think they're really mounting intercontinental expiditions. Emerald Claw/Blood of Vol also seem like they're a little more focused on immediate power in Khorvaire, and smaller strike teams, rather than a full scale invasion of Xen'drik. Keep in mind that The Emerald Claw is something of a marginalized semi-terrorist group, and the Blood of Vol is really just a minor religion. I think sending three groups over from Khorvaire would've been far less interesting than what we currently have: one invading army, and two already fighting native peoples. I'm also going to second (third? eighth?) the supposition that judging the game on the Beta or the (Multiplayer-only) Demo is incredibly premature. How in the world do you know what the "feel" of the game is going to be when you haven't even played the story mode? All you've got right now is the bare-bones RTS-est part of an RTS. And yes, that's not going to feel very pulp noir-y or particularly Eberron-ish, but it's just the multiplayer. All you have is three that attack each other, wait to see the story mode before you declare that this has completely tarnished Eberron's good name. Also I think it's a little silly to knock the game just because DDO is also set on (the incredibly large) continent of Xen'drik. Keith has always made Xen'drik out to be the perfect place for "anything else you want your campaign to have." Far better that the two games flesh out the giant-put-anything-you-want-here continent than Khorvaire, which has a very set structure and is only large enough for what's already been put there. I mean if either of these games was set in Khorvaire we'd have threads all about how it's far too easy to buy magical items and get your character ressurected! ;) |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-18-05, 11:44 PM | Here it comes… That sounds, as you put it, pretty "LAME." I don't know about you, but I sure don't see the Dreaming Dark as a group who would get into a full blown out military battle with some group of humans, some Umbragen, and some lizardfolk. If the Dreaming Dark was after what the three were after, the power groups wouldn't even know, until it was too late. I don't see them going around taking down bases and possessing everybody while creating legions and legions of Inspired soldiers to go and fight some drow. The Dreaming Dark could be put into the equation. Their search for the dragonshard could have sparked an invasion of Quori on Xendrik. The use of the members of the Dreaming Dark would be simple. One of the abilities of a Quori could have been the ability to possess the enemy. This is not illogical. The Dreaming Dark is secretive and such on Khorvaire, but that's just a tactic for power control. On Xendrik, however, it is wild and untamed. It is a place where it would be very logical for a Quori invasion when this Dragonshard was discovered. The race/group (Quori and their slaves/followers) could specialize in psionics for instance. The Flame could have Kalashatar that could use abilities to exorcise a unit and force the Quori out. Adding the Dreaming Dark would make sense and as for the Inspired soldiers, they could be created with a captain, just as smaller Warforged are created with Warforged Titans. Had they used any of those, no doubt you'd probably be endlessly complaining about how they messed them up. edit: Also, note the fact that most of those, (Blood of Vol, Order of the Emerald Claw) would be pretty much humans and other of the similar race. They used the Lizardmen, Umbragen, and Humans because of the difference in race, I would guess. No had they used any of these then it would have went along with my point. I didn't say that the Atari team messed up the races, I said they were poor choices. For instance, by creating the Order of the Emerald Claw, you could have enforced the use of zombies and undead, while having choices such as vampires and such. This would be a very logical choice. DND is not about RACE specifics (Only Orcs able to use Orcs and such), Hitler (lol jk), it is about ideals, beliefs and culture. Just incorporate those into and you have a wide variety of choices. Meaning the Order of the Emerald Claw can have any race with any class, but prefers to use things associated with undead and death, because that is their ideal of how things should be fought. I can't believe that you can actually even THINK of using this as an excuse why the game is bad. BETA. Oh I thought about it lol. Just something simple, a word document even, anything that could help the player learn the commands quicker or even learn them to an extent to where they can play the demo. You've been saying the game is crap since the beginning because it doesn't have an "Eberron feel" to it. This leads back to you, since "Eberron Feel" comes directly from campaigns you run or play in. The Eberron feel that you get is created when you play in these games. Yes, the setting was built for a certain type of feel, but no-where in the whole Campaign setting book does it say that it HAS to be run like that. Thus, you are bashing the game because it does not have the 'feel' that you get while running or playing in your Eberron campaigns. Ok, let’s prove my point by pulling out the Eberron Campaign Setting book. Pp. 7. The features that most set Eberron apart are its tone and attitude. The setting combines traditional medieval fantasy with pulp action and dark adventure. Make no mistake- the world of Eberron proudly takes its place among the D&D worlds that have come before, with a cinematic flair and an eye toward the best action-adventure movies ever filmed. The campaign's story elements were designed with this in mind, and we also built it into the game mechanics with the introduction of action points into the D&D game. The world of Eberron has a rich history built on heroic deeds, evolving magic and the wounds of a long, devastating war. In the wake of this Last War, action, adventure, good, evil and a thousand shades of gray paint the landscape in broad, powerful strokes and ancient mysteries await discovery so that they too can influence the world and its people. Now let's proceed to the following: Tone and Attitude. Pp. 8 ECS " The campaign combines traditional medieval D&D fantasy with swashbuckling action and dark adventure. If you read that you can see why I don't believe Dragonshard keeps with that tone. And to repeat what you said, "...but no-where in the whole Campaign setting book does it say that it HAS to be run like that." No campaign has to be RUN like that, but it clearly says how Eberron is. If you choose not to run it fine, but this game is infringing on the constant source to always refer to. I don't care if this wasn't aimed at us Eberron enthusiast; I don't want a new comer to think this game is how Eberron is! It's not Eberron toned. It's another RTS where a few designers wanted to make a profit, so they took the brand new campaign setting and added a few new things and bam, Dragonshard- without the qualifications that the ECS gives Eberron. You didn't HAVE a main point until I bashed your lousy, "this game sucks because it isn't how my Eberron is." Don't forget that your big post full of goods and bads of the game didn't come until AFTER I posted my view of your original reasons for bashing the game. Actually I am pretty sure by now you have become aware of my full intentions in the beginning of the post. By making it vague, you bring in an audience who is willing to participate in the forum. Over time, the poster, myself, explains and gives detail to why he posted it in the first place. I think I have defended to why I say it isn't how Eberron is, without the "my" that you nonchalantly added in an attempt to make another reader believe that is what I said. Adding stuff to what people say is wrong and you should be ashamed of yourself. My main point, by the way, was that this game (Dragonshard) sucked, thank you very much. And my post of goods and bads wasn't because of you; I explained that earlier in this paragraph. I don't even care about what you think. You think that I didn't post all these because of YOU? Let's post your responses in the thread, and see if that makes ANY sense at all. Are you even really listening to yourself anymore Guide? You are bashing the game because it is not how YOU run YOUR Eberron game. You must be crazy. I'm not even going to do the point - counterpoint thing because I don't think you even understand how foolish you look right now. Are you even really listening to yourself anymore Guide? You are bashing the game because it is not how YOU run YOUR Eberron game. You must be crazy. I'm not even going to do the point - counterpoint thing because I don't think you even understand how foolish you look right now. I like the game. I don't think it’s the devils spawn that Guide D'Jorasco keeps obsessing about; as if we played it we are helping destroy Eberron. You should really think about your points over again, because you are saying that an RTS should play like a normal D&D campaign. That doesn't even make any sense. Stop bashing it just because its not how you run your campaign. You think I posted all that because of YOU? If you think that you’re an idiot! I am sorry to be rude, but trying to take credit for me posting something that had a little bit more depth is moronic! But I want prove you wrong anymore. That part of this reply is done with. Hmm, you pretty much just bashed everything in the game because you EXPECTED everyone to agree with you. Then, after the disagreements and me calling you a bloody idiot, suddenly you've changed. I never changed thank you, you assumed and misread what I wrote. Actually I could care less what you called me. Most people do get mad when their proven wrong like you have been, but let's move on. I.e. I never expected everyone (let's note this term and define it real quick. Citing from http://www.dictionary.com. Everyone- Every person; everybody.) If you have ever understood Democracy or Statistics it is very illogical to think that everyone agrees with me. Let's move on now. Lets look at what you have under "Good" - Innovative experience system (Hmm. I guess they DO have a good leveling system, eh?) - Brand new building style (Hmm, strange, you seemed to have just bashed the horrible horrible build system in your first post) Did I ever say I liked them? NO! I listed what was good and bad. GOOD does not mean I like it! It could simply mean adequate, but I used the word good for better understanding. The experience system is innovative and is good when it comes to the continuous development of games. Brand new building style, although I have slowly come to get used to it, I never posted that saying I personally liked it. I merely posted the good and bad of it. That means that I took what I thought was GOOD, (I didn't say I was completely pleased with it) and posted it under what I thought was good. Stop reading into something that's not there Tek! I think it is a neat game, although I am not a big fan of RTS games. I wanted to play it because it was set in Eberron, and I am still dissapointed in what it turned out to be. Let's move on. 'The Worst RTS EVAR!!!!11" Next time, try using that Good, Bad, Want system as your first post. Come on man, spelling, it's not that hard, we all make mistakes, but, "Evar!!!!11"? Next time I will use the same format I did this time, because as I have proven, it is an effective way to get people to read your post and participate. Well that was a lot of work, thanks for the challenge Tek! |
| Tek07-19-05, 12:36 AM | The Dreaming Dark could be put into the equation. Their search for the dragonshard could have sparked an invasion of Quori on Xendrik. The use of the members of the Dreaming Dark would be simple. One of the abilities of a Quori could have been the ability to possess the enemy. This is not illogical. The Dreaming Dark is secretive and such on Khorvaire, but that's just a tactic for power control. On Xendrik, however, it is wild and untamed. It is a place where it would be very logical for a Quori invasion when this Dragonshard was discovered. A valid point, but not something I would want to see part of the Dreaming Dark. The Dreaming Dark, as you said, is about schemeing and sabotage. If you start changing it that they start possessing hundreds of enemies and building up their powers, even on Xen'drik, there isn't a Dreaming Dark anymore. Its just a Quori invasion. You just got rid of the darkness and the stealth of the Dreaming Dark, and gone and ruined your Eberron mood, as you put it so nicely down below. Before you state, "Oh, as the Dreaming Dark in the game you could still do stealth and such", I disagree. We both played the game, and we both know how it has to be played. You need more then one unit, and well stealth might work out sometimes, its not going to work in the long run. It would be impossible to balance. No had they used any of these then it would have went along with my point. I didn't say that the Atari team messed up the races, I said they were poor choices. For instance, by creating the Order of the Emerald Claw, you could have enforced the use of zombies and undead, while having choices such as vampires and such. This would be a very logical choice. DND is not about RACE specifics (Only Orcs able to use Orcs and such), Hitler (lol jk), it is about ideals, beliefs and culture. Just incorporate those into and you have a wide variety of choices. Meaning the Order of the Emerald Claw can have any race with any class, but prefers to use things associated with undead and death, because that is their ideal of how things should be fought. Again, the Order of the Claw isn't about all out war with hundreds of zombies charging the Silver Flame paladins. They just don't have the numbers. If I started seeing hundreds of Claw members running around in Dragonshard, it would ruin the game for me, personally. I know that there are a significant number of Umbragen and Lizardmen already on Xen'drik. And there is definetly enough paladins of the flame to mount an expedition. But Order of the Claw or Blood of Vol staging an outright, full on assault? Please. Oh I thought about it lol. Just something simple, a word document even, anything that could help the player learn the commands quicker or even learn them to an extent to where they can play the demo. I guess they believed that anybody to stupid to figure out the controls weren't going to find any bugs, and if they did, they wouldn't submit them because they didn't have the brain power required to actually complete something like that. It isn't a demo. Fileplanet calls it a Demo to get more people to play it. Read in a bit, "Atari and FilePlanet are pleased to present all FilePlanet users with the opportunity to participate in the Dragonshard Beta test!" Beta. Beta. Beta. Beta. They don't have to provide you with anything. If you're going to complain about a game, a game in beta stage at that, about not having a notepad explaining the controls or a tutorial file, well, you probably need to lay off the cocaine. If you read that you can see why I don't believe Dragonshard keeps with that tone. And to repeat what you said, "...but no-where in the whole Campaign setting book does it say that it HAS to be run like that." No campaign has to be RUN like that, but it clearly says how Eberron is. If you choose not to run it fine, but this game is infringing on the constant source to always refer to. I don't care if this wasn't aimed at us Eberron enthusiast; I don't want a new comer to think this game is how Eberron is! It's not Eberron toned. It's another RTS where a few designers wanted to make a profit, so they took the brand new campaign setting and added a few new things and bam, Dragonshard- without the qualifications that the ECS gives Eberron. You've made your point about the tone of Eberron. Now, how in bloody hell do you actually think you can get a pulp noir action into a bleeding RTS? I would understand where you are coming from had the game been a first person or 3rd person game, or something, but really, an RTS. Actually I am pretty sure by now you have become aware of my full intentions in the beginning of the post. By making it vague, you bring in an audience who is willing to participate in the forum. Over time, the poster, myself, explains and gives detail to why he posted it in the first place. By making it vague you aren't taken seriously at all and you look like a twelve year old bashing a toy that he bought and it isn't what he turned out to be. I didn't even bother trying to have a conversation with you until you actually laid down some solid points. You can call your idiotic namecalling of the game that you did in the beginning of the thread whatever you want, 'baiting more readers', or 'dropping the hook' or whatever the hell you need to do to sleep at night. I think we all can see that you posted the original post to try and get the majority of the posters to agree that "Dragonshard sucks so much that I hate it! Waah!" (I would say everyone, but since you take everything so damn literal it isn't funny, I changed it to majority so you wouldn't get your panties in a bunch. Also, so you don't have another flip-out about putting words in your mouth, those 'quotes' were me paraprashing Guide's original post. He didn't actually say that. What he said was much worse on the stupid scale.) My main point, by the way, was that this game (Dragonshard) sucked, thank you very much. And my post of goods and bads wasn't because of you; I explained that earlier in this paragraph. I don't even care about what you think. You think that I didn't post all these because of YOU? Let's post your responses in the thread, and see if that makes ANY sense at all. No, I'm quite sure it was because of me. I bashed your original opinion, and you got a little mad, so you actually came up with some real points and posted them. Aswell, if you don't care about my opinion oh-so-much, why are you spending so much time replying to it? Hmm? Let me guess, the cookie cutter answer of, "I don't care, I'm just wasting time and having fun with you." Yeah, sure, I'll believe that. I never changed thank you, you assumed and misread what I wrote. Actually I could care less what you called me. Most people do get mad when their proven wrong like you have been, but let's move on. Okay, Dr. Phil, thanks for that assessment. Maybe later you can help me out with some trouble at home. (Oh, just for clarification, not in the literal way. There isn't any trouble. That was a joke. I'll be doing this from now on so you don't get upset and start over analyzing my sentences.) I.e. I never expected everyone (let's note this term and define it real quick. Citing from http://www.dictionary.com. Everyone- Every person; everybody.) If you have ever understood Democracy or Statistics it is very illogical to think that everyone agrees with me. Let's move on now. Oh my! The literal police have arrived. I'm so dead. Oh, wait, let me change that before they snag me on 'dead'. Incase you didn't know, I obviously didn't actually imply that EVERYONE would agree with you. You know that would be stupid and you knew exactly what I meant, but instead of just accepting it and actually arguing about a VALID point, you bring this up. Nice try. Wow. Contradiction time. Did I ever say I liked them? NO! I listed what was good and bad. GOOD does not mean I like it! It could simply mean adequate, but I used the word good for better understanding. The experience system is innovative and is good when it comes to the continuous development of games. Brand new building style, although I have slowly come to get used to it, I never posted that saying I personally liked it. I merely posted the good and bad of it. That means that I took what I thought was GOOD, (I didn't say I was completely pleased with it) and posted it under what I thought was good. Stop reading into something that's not there Tek! I think it is a neat game, although I am not a big fan of RTS games. I wanted to play it because it was set in Eberron, and I am still dissapointed in what it turned out to be. Let's move on. My main point, by the way, was that this game (Dragonshard) sucked Pick a stance. You say the game sucks and then you think it is 'neat'. Then, when I call you for calling something good, you say that it is what you 'think'. Well, obviously, because everything you posted is what you think. Come on man, spelling, it's not that hard, we all make mistakes, but, "Evar!!!!11"? Next time I will use the same format I did this time, because as I have proven, it is an effective way to get people to read your post and participate. Again with taking things literally. Well, lets load up your favorite website, dictionary.com, and punch a little something in. (I'm not punching my monitor, don't worry, punch something in is slang for typing something. So don't ask me if I punched my monitor.) sar·casm Audio pronunciation of "sarcasm" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (särkzm) n. 1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound. 2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule. I posted, "The Worst RTS EVAR!!!!11" as a imitation of YOUR original post. I thought you would have been able to catch that, but you obviously didn't. I'll clarify. Your post was so idiotic and bloody stupid that it was akin to common internet noobism. I'll demonstrate, by transfering your post to noobism. Omg this is the worst RTS I have EVER played. I am DEEPLY saddened by Atari's work. This gets the lowest rating possible to mankind in my book. They destroyed the way Eberron was meant to be and I am horrified at the graphics, content, LOGO, sounds, build system and leveling system. Innovation is NOT always good and this is a prime example. If you buy this game, you are just blowing money. Try the Demo if you don't believe me. Also it is hosted on Gamespy, the worst server ever! I will never pick this game up and hide it behind something every time I see it so it doesn't hurt another Eberron Enthusiast's eyes. OMG LOL THIS IS THE WURST RTS I EVAR PLAY. I HATE ATARI HAH THEY SHOULD GO BACK MAKING ATARI SYSTEM GAMES. WORST RTS EVAR!!!111 They destroyed eberron completely, its gone, literally, Eberron is literally GONE> DO NOT BUUY THIS GAME UNLESS YOU LIKE GIVING $$$$$$$$$ to ATARAI. OMG It along with GAME$$PY so so sososos bad. OH GOD IT BURNS MY EYES Now maybe, just maybe, you'll be able to piece together where I got the WORST RTS EVAR!!!!11 from. But hey, if you want to think that was a horrible spelling mistake by me, uh, go right ahead. Whatever helps you sleep. |
| Shadowalk Nimblefeet07-19-05, 12:52 AM | Would one of the Wizos please lock this thread? It's didn't start out so hot, and now it seems to have degraded into a mudslinging contest. Please guys, let's try and keep discussions on these boards pleasant or at the very least civil. It doesn't need to be a fully-regulated academic debate, but we shouldn't be so cross with one another that nothing articulate is said and it devolves into ranting back and forth. Cheers. |
| Tek07-19-05, 12:56 AM | I'm sure Guide will agree with me that we are having a civilized discussion about the merits of Dragonshard and the issues of posting idiotic posts off the bat in a LAME (as said by him) attempt to try and 'draw people into the thread' |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-19-05, 01:27 AM | A valid point, but not something I would want to see part of the Dreaming Dark. The Dreaming Dark, as you said, is about schemeing and sabotage. If you start changing it that they start possessing hundreds of enemies and building up their powers, even on Xen'drik, there isn't a Dreaming Dark anymore. Its just a Quori invasion. You just got rid of the darkness and the stealth of the Dreaming Dark, and gone and ruined your Eberron mood, as you put it so nicely down below. What is the purpose of the Dreaming Dark? Let's look. ECS Pp. 240. "Even so, the Inspired have long maintained a network of spies stretching across Eberron. For centuries the Dreaming Dark has simply watched the world from the shadows while the Inspired built their power within Riedra. Now the Quori are ready to act, and the Dreaming Dark serves as their hands." As you can see their use of the Dreaming Dark is for spies and I implied that use to ALL of the Quori. You could make it a Quori invasion, in a sense as it's a way to meet an end, through aquiring that large Dragonshard. Again, the Order of the Claw isn't about all out war with hundreds of zombies charging the Silver Flame paladins. They just don't have the numbers. If I started seeing hundreds of Claw members running around in Dragonshard, it would ruin the game for me, personally. I know that there are a significant number of Umbragen and Lizardmen already on Xen'drik. And there is definetly enough paladins of the flame to mount an expedition. But Order of the Claw or Blood of Vol staging an outright, full on assault? Please. I'm sure the dead have numbers. As for the Silver Flame, I don't see anywhere where they could amass a full scale attack on Xendrik to get the Dragonshard. The Silver Flame is composed of many different types of people and organizations, why couldn't they incorporate the Order of the Claw with a few other organizations like they did the Silver Flame? And where do you get how many paladins are in the Silver Flame? I have never seen actual numbers. If there is please tell me, but if not, why assume? Otherwise I could assume there are lots of Order of the Claw right? I guess they believed that anybody to stupid to figure out the controls weren't going to find any bugs, and if they did, they wouldn't submit them because they didn't have the brain power required to actually complete something like that. Why, your getting angry aren't you? Prozac man, Prozac. Seriously though, for those who don't play RTS game it would have been nice, just a gesture. I know it's not expected, but it's a hopeful thing. Not something I judge the game on mind you. I did figure out the controls, very quickly, but I know of at least 7 people who had a problem learning the build system and would have been nice to have had some type of sidenote on how to do it. No need to challenge my brain power, which is very adequate, but i'm more of a physical person though, I wish you could test that one. ;-) Beta. Beta. Beta. Beta. They don't have to provide you with anything. If you're going to complain about a game, a game in beta stage at that, about not having a notepad explaining the controls or a tutorial file, well, you probably need to lay off the cocaine. I would lay off the cocaine, but your mom keeps supplying it. lol. Seriously man, chill out. You've made your point about the tone of Eberron. Now, how in bloody hell do you actually think you can get a pulp noir action into a bleeding RTS? I would understand where you are coming from had the game been a first person or 3rd person game, or something, but really, an RTS. Your right, it is an RTS and is hard to make it the tone of the Eberron Rpg, but at least incorporate the RPG into the game as MUCH as you can, and I think Atari could have done a lot more to do that. By making it vague you aren't taken seriously at all and you look like a twelve year old bashing a toy that he bought and it isn't what he turned out to be. I didn't even bother trying to have a conversation with you until you actually laid down some solid points. You can call your idiotic namecalling of the game that you did in the beginning of the thread whatever you want, 'baiting more readers', or 'dropping the hook' or whatever the hell you need to do to sleep at night. I think we all can see that you posted the original post to try and get the majority of the posters to agree that "Dragonshard sucks so much that I hate it! Waah!" (I would say everyone, but since you take everything so damn literal it isn't funny, I changed it to majority so you wouldn't get your panties in a bunch. Also, so you don't have another flip-out about putting words in your mouth, those 'quotes' were me paraprashing Guide's original post. He didn't actually say that. What he said was much worse on the stupid scale.) So now the majority agrees with you? What was your sample size for this? Seriously, where are these statistics coming from? You have a stupid scale? Dude, you have way too much time on your hands. No, I'm quite sure it was because of me. I bashed your original opinion, and you got a little mad, so you actually came up with some real points and posted them. Aswell, if you don't care about my opinion oh-so-much, why are you spending so much time replying to it? Hmm? Let me guess, the cookie cutter answer of, "I don't care, I'm just wasting time and having fun with you." Yeah, sure, I'll believe that. A cookie cutter answer? That's a new one on me. I'm spending time because I like posting in these boards and your fun to debate with. I didn't get a little mad, I didn't get mad at all. And it wasn't because of you, it was because of different people as well, but to say it wasn't at all about you would be stupid, you did contribute. Okay, Dr. Phil, thanks for that assessment. Maybe later you can help me out with some trouble at home. (Oh, just for clarification, not in the literal way. There isn't any trouble. That was a joke. I'll be doing this from now on so you don't get upset and start over analyzing my sentences.) Your an idiot, seriously, Dr. Phil? Oh my! The literal police have arrived. I'm so dead. Oh, wait, let me change that before they snag me on 'dead'. Incase you didn't know, I obviously didn't actually imply that EVERYONE would agree with you. You know that would be stupid and you knew exactly what I meant, but instead of just accepting it and actually arguing about a VALID point, you bring this up. Nice try. Say what you mean. Don't assume someone knows what your talking about, first rule in speech. I won't take anything out of context if you just say what you actually mean. How are any of us to actually know what you didn't imply? If you haven't noticed, were on the internet communicating with written words. Pick a stance. You say the game sucks and then you think it is 'neat'. Then, when I call you for calling something good, you say that it is what you 'think'. Well, obviously, because everything you posted is what you think. In the beginning I posted this thread because I had just tried Dragonshard and was very upset with it. After posting on the boards and seeing other people's replies, I decided to try it out again. It is neat, with the innovative new styles of building and experience, but it sucks when it comes to what I was expecting. Again with taking things literally. Well, lets load up your favorite website, dictionary.com, and punch a little something in. (I'm not punching my monitor, don't worry, punch something in is slang for typing something. So don't ask me if I punched my monitor.) Actually that's not my favorite website moron. Stop assuming things. You assume much. I posted, "The Worst RTS EVAR!!!!11" as a imitation of YOUR original post. I thought you would have been able to catch that, but you obviously didn't. I'll clarify. Your post was so idiotic and bloody stupid that it was akin to common internet noobism. I'll demonstrate, by transfering your post to noobism. Right i'm going to believe that wasn't a typing error. You made typos, just admit it. And actually, I am new to forums and stuff. Now maybe, just maybe, you'll be able to piece together where I got the WORST RTS EVAR!!!!11 from. But hey, if you want to think that was a horrible spelling mistake by me, uh, go right ahead. Whatever helps you sleep. You think that posting in a forum helps me sleep? Assuming again my friend. But anyways, Dragonshard, I hope has a very immersive storyline, but from the looks of the BETA (For you Tek) it doesn't look like it will be what Eberron RPG players would come to know as Eberron. It is an RTS as Tek said and tries to bring Eberron into the limelight with it, but falls shortly from what I, personally, would be called an Eberron RTS. I retract my previous statement that it is horrible, and would rather say it falls short of what Eberron truly is. For the RTS player they should enjoy this game, but if your an Eberron RPG player, don't expect much when it comes to the pulp-noir action. Over the time of this thread I have slowly opened up to the game and realized that it would, even if the best gamers were involved, be hard to get the RPG feel and bring it to the RTS. Atari has done it now, they have attempted, and very honorable, to try and bring Eberron into the spot light with this new RTS, Dragonshard. I think that, with time, I could come to enjoy the game for what it is, and not what I want it to be, but as a warning, it is not even close to the way the RPG is, so don't expect much (given information from BETA- Againt there ya go Tek lol) Let's just hope when Dragonshard 2 comes out (if it does) they put more of the campaign setting into it, and try and bring the pulp noir, dark fantasy to life for the first time in any RTS. Now let's get along Tek. lol |
| Tek07-19-05, 02:00 AM | What is the purpose of the Dreaming Dark? Let's look. ECS Pp. 240. "Even so, the Inspired have long maintained a network of spies stretching across Eberron. For centuries the Dreaming Dark has simply watched the world from the shadows while the Inspired built their power within Riedra. Now the Quori are ready to act, and the Dreaming Dark serves as their hands." As you can see their use of the Dreaming Dark is for spies and I implied that use to ALL of the Quori. You could make it a Quori invasion, in a sense as it's a way to meet an end, through aquiring that large Dragonshard. Sure you could, but do you really think that would be a good idea? I mean, that would change alot of stuff, a full on Quori invasion. I like the Dreaming Dark kept as schemers, not generals. I'm not saying it wasn't a pausible group to have in the game, I'm just saying that I don't think I would have liked them as one of the major powers. I'm sure the dead have numbers. As for the Silver Flame, I don't see anywhere where they could amass a full scale attack on Xendrik to get the Dragonshard. The Silver Flame is composed of many different types of people and organizations, why couldn't they incorporate the Order of the Claw with a few other organizations like they did the Silver Flame? And where do you get how many paladins are in the Silver Flame? I have never seen actual numbers. If there is please tell me, but if not, why assume? Otherwise I could assume there are lots of Order of the Claw right? Alright, that I agree with. Why, your getting angry aren't you? Prozac man, Prozac. Seriously though, for those who don't play RTS game it would have been nice, just a gesture. I know it's not expected, but it's a hopeful thing. Not something I judge the game on mind you. I did figure out the controls, very quickly, but I know of at least 7 people who had a problem learning the build system and would have been nice to have had some type of sidenote on how to do it. No need to challenge my brain power, which is very adequate, but i'm more of a physical person though, I wish you could test that one. ;-) I barely had any problem with the controls or the system and I've maybe played three RTSes in my life. I would lay off the cocaine, but your mom keeps supplying it. lol. Seriously man, chill out. Some of your points imply you aren't twelve years old, but then there is this... Your right, it is an RTS and is hard to make it the tone of the Eberron Rpg, but at least incorporate the RPG into the game as MUCH as you can, and I think Atari could have done a lot more to do that. yeah, probably. But they didn't. So now the majority agrees with you? What was your sample size for this? Seriously, where are these statistics coming from? You have a stupid scale? Dude, you have way too much time on your hands. No, you misread. I was stating that you posted your original thread because you thought alot of other posters would agree with you. When they didn't, you found out it wouldn't be a 'bash Dragonshards' thread and had to make concrete points. A cookie cutter answer? That's a new one on me. I'm spending time because I like posting in these boards and your fun to debate with. I didn't get a little mad, I didn't get mad at all. And it wasn't because of you, it was because of different people as well, but to say it wasn't at all about you would be stupid, you did contribute. okay. Well good, getting mad over the internet is pointless and stupid. Your an idiot, seriously, Dr. Phil? Just making a humorous response to your assessment of human behaviour. Say what you mean. Don't assume someone knows what your talking about, first rule in speech. I won't take anything out of context if you just say what you actually mean. How are any of us to actually know what you didn't imply? If you haven't noticed, were on the internet communicating with written words. Talk to a few people, and when you want to say 'alot' of people, say everyone instead. They will know you don't actually mean everyone in the world, trust me. In the beginning I posted this thread because I had just tried Dragonshard and was very upset with it. After posting on the boards and seeing other people's replies, I decided to try it out again. It is neat, with the innovative new styles of building and experience, but it sucks when it comes to what I was expecting. Heh, well, it is an RTS in D&D. You can't expect much in the first place. Right i'm going to believe that wasn't a typing error. You made typos, just admit it. And actually, I am new to forums and stuff. It wasen't a typing error. If you are new to forums and stuff you might not know common noob lingo such as that. It originated a long time ago, probably somewhere around 98' or 99', when noobs would be typing so fast that they would type something like 'OMG THIS IS AWESOMEE!!!!!!!!111' and then at the end hold the 1 key and let go of the shift key and it would continue putting down ones. Now, it is commonly used as a joke. In conclusion, Dragonshard could have been better but its pretty good the way it is. I'm looking at it from a game standpoint and less of a D&D standpoint. They aren't no bioware. |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-19-05, 02:15 AM | Alright Tek, so me and you cool? Have I gained enough experience to make it to level 2? (That actually would be a cool idea for the forums. The more posts you make the more experience you get? It could be abused I know, but come on, it would be neat! lol.) |
| Tek07-19-05, 02:16 AM | When were we ever 'uncool' |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-19-05, 02:19 AM | Well I assumed, from the way were 'debating' that our attitudes towards each other went from Indifferent to Unfriendly. Guess not (failed his stupid Sense Motive check again). |
| Guide D'Jorasco07-19-05, 02:21 AM | Would one of the Wizos please lock this thread? It's didn't start out so hot, and now it seems to have degraded into a mudslinging contest. Please guys, let's try and keep discussions on these boards pleasant or at the very least civil. It doesn't need to be a fully-regulated academic debate, but we shouldn't be so cross with one another that nothing articulate is said and it devolves into ranting back and forth. Cheers. A mudslinging contest, actually sounds kind of fun! |
| Mad M.07-19-05, 10:35 AM | For those looking for a bit more info on this game, do try our humble fansite: http://www.rpgplanet.com/dragonshard/ It hasn't been updated in the newest version yet, paticularly unit stats, but lots of good info there, including single player-ish descriptions of the units from an early version of the manual. And yes, the "demo" is just the beta version. I'm in beta, so I know. If you haven't played the latest version, (like, last week) yet, you should. It's a substantial improvement in a number of areas. There's no sound because we aren't testing the sound. There's no single player because that's a separate testing department. (There is, however, a single player demo availible soon. This too is a "beta" version, and the Liquid guys are always eager for feedback. Seriously, the Liquid team are a bunch of really nice, really reasonable guys who work hard on this game.--and they read our forums, so if you want to spout off for their benefit, go ahead. Personally, I enjoy the game. It has a lot of strategic depth compared to your typical rts, and is a lot of fun to play. |
| Mad M.07-19-05, 10:54 AM | Just odds and ends.. Atari/Liquid do plan to release a map editor for the game, either at release or shortly afterwards. As far as playing the game, you need to collect dragonshards on the surface, and gold/items/xp underground. The shards are deposited on the map through random storms, so the use of a "detector" unit (Deathless, Troglodyte, Hive Keeper) to point out shard falls to you is invaluable. Underground, you'll find Rogues useful in disarming traps and opening treasure chests. In order to level up your units, you not only need the required xp, but you need to build multiple copies of the same building in a single 2x2 block. Units can be leveled up to 5, which requires 4 buildings. Once you've met the building requirements, you're free to replace/remove the buildings as you see fit. Also important--if you have any units level 2+, they will automatically train soldiers while hanging around a base or expansion. (This is different from the old version, where they could be trained anywhere aboveground, but costs resources) Champions are more powerful than they appear, because their attacks bypass armor, as do juggernaught units and monsters. Mantaining a balanced mix of damage types/vulnerabilities is always a good idea. |
| greatfrito07-19-05, 03:25 PM | Okay, from all of this flaming on the game, I decided to pick up the demo/beta thingy and try it out (just to be contrarian, you see). So, I've played a few games against the AI (which will get better at release - one of those "Anything has GOT to be better than this" kinda things). Have to say, on its own, the system is interesting, the setting is strange, and the the environment is fairly awesome. Cities, Syberis Shard-Storms, and a Duel-Layer map and Captain/Minion units are the highlights here. That said, I see no reason why (at all) they had to use Eberron for this game - or even why they associated with the setting at all. What made them take a world that is set only a few years after a massive, world-altering WAR, and set their WAR game in the wilderness of another continent!? If they wanted to make an RTS, why didn't they set it during the last war? Why didn't they stick to the Eberron world more? Have the Five Nations, units resembling typical RTS units - soldiers, trained units, whatever - and then Deneith Mercenaries (for hire, of course - Goblinoids!), and Cannith Weapons/Warforged. I mean... Wizards has been putting out so much war-oriented stuff recently, why didn't they make an RTS semi-based on the D20 system? It wouldn't be too hard - they've been building up the system forever now, and it wouldn't be too hard to adapt. Plus, setting it in the Last War, they could have had you recruit normal units, and then have a random chance that one of the recruits has a "greater potential" - ie. if it survives, it will grow into a powerful Hero. They could have had Daine in it! .... Damn it all, why didn't I make the damn game! It sounds so much better than what Atari has. |
| Siran Dunmorgan07-19-05, 04:46 PM | .... Damn it all, why didn't I make the damn game! It sounds so much better than what Atari has. The only thing stopping you is the cost—in time and money—of the Eberron Product Identity license, and the time to produce the art—including sound—and related content. Other than that—well, it's not illicit to build a very Dungeons & Dragons-like game based solely on the System Reference Document and the Open Gaming license. Note, however, that you can't call it Dungeons & Dragons, and you can't call it d20—although the d20 license is free-as-in-beer, it specifically prohibits computer games; the Open Gaming license does not. We'd have to get a decent team of artists, programmers and similar-minded folk together: for a game like this, art and content are the real bottlenecks; there is surfeit of rendering and physics engines available, and the programming, while involved, is not generally the primary issue. If it turned out to be any good, we could take it to the Hasbro Properties Group and try to arm-wrestle their attorneys into extending the Eberron license to us in addition to Liquid. I wouldn't count on it, however—the agreement with Liquid for the Eberron license to a Real-time Strategy computer game is probably exclusive, and probably runs for several more years. —Siran Dunmorgan |