Post/Author/DateTime	Post
VoidCrusader 05-09-07, 04:57 AM	Hello, first if this question has already been focused on somewhere sorry, I tried searching but couldn't find anything on it. I will be talking about the ending of the novel so spoilers, be warned. I just finished the trilogy and I was a little confused on the ending. Is Daine lost in the dream plane and is someone pretending to be him (Kin maybe?) or was it known he would need to be called back and Kin had planned for it, thus making the circle? I know there may be no clear cut answer but I would still like to hear and theories. Thanks.
mhacdebhandia 05-09-07, 08:38 PM	My theory, which I think makes the most sense, is that: Daine's body has been possessed by the spirit of the warrior whose face the characters couldn't make out on his tomb, and whose sword Daine ended up with after crossing from Thelanis back to Eberron.
VoidCrusader 05-10-07, 03:54 AM	Wow, that is actually a much better theory than my whole Kin replacement thing. Of course then the question rises on whether or not Daine is the ancient warrior reincarnated, he wasn't ever able to look at the face of the statue, he got the sheath, and it might explain why the queen was so friendly specifically to him.
Belabras 05-10-07, 01:25 PM	The Queen makes some pretty strong promises that, when you view it through mhacdebhandia's theory (which I agree with btw) make a lot more sense.
mhacdebhandia 05-11-07, 01:13 AM	Of course then the question rises on whether or not Daine is the ancient warrior reincarnated, he wasn't ever able to look at the face of the statue, he got the sheath, and it might explain why the queen was so friendly specifically to him. Oh, I'm not sure it's necessary to suppose that there's any more connection than that Daine, out of the four heroes, would be the most pleasing body for that warrior to wake up in; we can assume the queen selected him on that basis.
The Dreaming Duck 05-11-07, 09:16 AM	Oh, I'm not sure it's necessary to suppose that there's any more connection than that Daine, out of the four heroes, would be the most pleasing body for that warrior to wake up in; we can assume the queen selected him on that basis. I think there's more to it than that. I can't find my copy of The Gates of Night, so I'll have to work off memory, but... Who IS the sleeping warrior? We don't know anything about him beyond the fact that he's a special friend of Thelania. But we know a few things. In each book, someone refers to Daine as "Daine with no family name" - Flamewind, a water weird, and Thelania. The water weird even tells Daine "I'll see you beyond the gates of night." Both Flamewind and the weird are oracles. So my assumption is that as oracles, they are speaking on behalf of another power... in this case, Thelania. When Daine encounters the draconic eidolon, it says something like "Our business isn't done. The way is prepared. Take our gift, and walk this world again." I'm not sure about the first sentence, but I'm sure about the other three. Then it breathes on him - and from that point on he has this sense of "dragonfire" within him. My read? The dragon's not talking TO Daine when it makes that statement; it's talking ABOUT him. The "dragonfire" is the spirit that ultimately claims his body. And what's noteworthy here is that the way has been "prepared". It's possible that this simply means "He's got the scabbard." But I don't buy that. If Flamewind is speaking on behalf of Thelania, the queen's been watching them for a long time. And Flamewind's actions ultimately result in the death of Jode and his transformation into a bottle, and influence Daine's decision to drink the bottle. Which, in turn, gives him an aberrant mark on a scale not seen since the War of the Mark. And THAT'S the key to me. I think Thelania's little friend is one of Halas Tarkanan's compatriots. In order for him to return, his would be host needed to have an approximation of his old mark. If true, this may mean that Thelania has been manipulating Harmattan as well, since it's Harmattan's actions that ultimately provoke Daine into drinking the Jode potion... and since this sequence of events is predicted by Flamewind. Anyhow, just a theory. But it does pull together events from across the books, instead of just leaving it as them being in the wrong place at the right time. After all, I think it was Flamewind who said "beware coincidence"!
polt 05-12-07, 07:46 AM	It's Daine that wakes up. Remember that a day in Dal Quor is much much longer on the material plane. So when Daine wakes up, he's probably been through a couple of things to get to wake up.
VoidCrusader 05-12-07, 10:27 AM	Thats a pretty strong set of reinforcing facts I'll admit. Of course my hope doesn't really have anything in book going for it but either way I will agree that it seems to point to the fact that the warrior spirit is in Daine. I still want to hold to the idea that the spirit of tomb and Daine are the same being, reincarnated or something. Just because of the fact that the book had what, 3 different people all sharing their bodies with something? That kinda says that Baker seems to like the idea of souls and what not. The point about extended time is a good fact to, Baker could of just run out of room and been like "Oh, and hes back" but I really don't want to think that.
mhacdebhandia 05-12-07, 08:22 PM	Keith has said that, basically, the idea that Daine wakes up in his body at the end of the novel is something which you can assume if you want the story to be over, rather than ending on a cliffhanger. In other words, that's not the case, and what really happened will be explored in future stories.