Drive a Skycoach? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Drive a Skycoach? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
damc84
08-06-07, 12:57 PM How can this forum not have a search function? It makes it impossible to check if this has been answered already somewhere.

At any rate, I hope someone can suggest what kind of game mechanic to use to drive a skycoach in Sharn.

It could be similar to controlling an airship, except it should be easier, I think. Lyrandar heirs captain those ships and use an opposed Cha(?) roll vs. the fire or air elemental at +0.

In contrast, hardly all of the skycoach boatmen in Sharn are dragonmarked and as far as I can tell they are fueled by something other than an elemental. Simple Fly spell maybe.

Just want to know because as a DM I'd like to set the scene for a nice 3-dimensional skycoach chase :)
Kid SixXx
08-06-07, 01:09 PM Well, it's not game canon but in the novel, Night of Long Shadows, it's suggested that the process of driving a skycoach is indeed similar to piloting an airship.

Probably a minor air elemental bound to the skycoach and the process of controlling it (and the skycoach) might be easier than normal given the Syrania manifest zone that ecapsulates Sharn.

I'd use your CHA check assumption if it were me.
damc84
08-06-07, 01:17 PM Thanks for the quick feedback, I appreciate it :)
Kinger
08-06-07, 02:17 PM I'd avoid suggesting any elemental binding. Otherwise you might get questions like "If this can be flown without a dragonmark, why can't I do the same with an airship?"

Skycoaches are, as far as I can tell, just reflavored Flying Carpets whose construction is made cheaper by relying on Sharn's manifest zone. Really, that just boils down to a Fly spell.

Having said that, I'd think that you'd want ranks in Profession: Pilot in order to do anything fancy with a skycoach. Maybe let it be the same skillcheck as necessary to fly an airship, maybe not. But make it a skill that your average cabby would have to invest in if he wanted to parallel park or fly upside down.
OctaviusIII
08-06-07, 02:21 PM And as for the search function: it's near the top, just below where you log in and it says "Welcome, dmac84."
Kid SixXx
08-07-07, 06:09 AM I'd avoid suggesting any elemental binding. Otherwise you might get questions like "If this can be flown without a dragonmark, why can't I do the same with an airship?"

Eh, there are drastic differences between, say, driving a car and piloting an airplane and the DM has the ability to enforce such divergences in difficulty via feats, DC skill checks, skill pre-reqs, and such.

Just because an elemental may be bound to both vehicles doesn't necessarily mean that the process in controlling both vehicles necessarily needs to be similar in ease even if they may be similar in process. (ie. both a car and an airplane can be made to go left or right by respective turning mechanisms, but one process is many times tricker than the other.)

The DM can make piloting an airship as difficult or as easy as he sees fit to, if you're into enforcing that sort of thing.

House Lyrandar should naturally boast the best pilots, own the best airships, and perhaps have some say in who gets to legally own an airship.

But I don't think that having a dragonmark should be the pre-req for flying an airship. I'll have to check the RAW, but IIRC I don't think that is the case anyway.
Hopeless
08-07-07, 06:41 AM How can this forum not have a search function? It makes it impossible to check if this has been answered already somewhere.

At any rate, I hope someone can suggest what kind of game mechanic to use to drive a skycoach in Sharn.

It could be similar to controlling an airship, except it should be easier, I think. Lyrandar heirs captain those ships and use an opposed Cha(?) roll vs. the fire or air elemental at +0.

In contrast, hardly all of the skycoach boatmen in Sharn are dragonmarked and as far as I can tell they are fueled by something other than an elemental. Simple Fly spell maybe.

Just want to know because as a DM I'd like to set the scene for a nice 3-dimensional skycoach chase :)

How about the ride skill?

Admittedly there's all that talk about using Charisma to persuade the elemental to go where you want to but surely diplomacy or intimidation will do just as well, but then what about Handle Animal?

Its charisma based and it seems appropriate to have a ride skill specifically for sky coach or even airship perhaps...
Hopeless
08-07-07, 06:42 AM I'd avoid suggesting any elemental binding. Otherwise you might get questions like "If this can be flown without a dragonmark, why can't I do the same with an airship?"

Skycoaches are, as far as I can tell, just reflavored Flying Carpets whose construction is made cheaper by relying on Sharn's manifest zone. Really, that just boils down to a Fly spell.

Having said that, I'd think that you'd want ranks in Profession: Pilot in order to do anything fancy with a skycoach. Maybe let it be the same skillcheck as necessary to fly an airship, maybe not. But make it a skill that your average cabby would have to invest in if he wanted to parallel park or fly upside down.

Aren't you describing Use Magic Device though?
Arcane Guyver
08-07-07, 12:12 PM Aren't you describing Use Magic Device though?

Nah, UMD is mainly for the activation of magical shtuff.

A little perplexing that this semi-basic issue hasn't been sorted out yet; I don't have my books on me, so unfortunately I can't look them up in the Sharn book. Still, I'd prefer that these items work as magic carpets, not another bound elemental item. That way, if you're having a chase scene involving two skycabs, the result depends more on the pilot's skill than the skill of the elemental bound within.

It's the difference between:
"Going that way is gonna be pretty tough, but I think I can handle it."
and
"Going that way is gonna be pretty tough. Hopefully the elemental will maneuver appropriately after I ask it."
Kid SixXx
08-07-07, 01:11 PM That way, if you're having a chase scene involving two skycabs, the result depends more on the pilot's skill than the skill of the elemental bound within.

The elemental only provides the propulsion for the vehicle, it doesn't decide where the vehicle should go. Pilot / Driver Skill should still be a factor.
Kinger
08-07-07, 04:10 PM The elemental only provides the propulsion for the vehicle, it doesn't decide where the vehicle should go. Pilot / Driver Skill should still be a factor.

I dunno, often it seems that Pilot/Driver Skill is used to determine how well the elemental does what it's told. :)

They basically work out to the same thing, though.
Macrovore
08-07-07, 04:17 PM but didn't they develop skycoaches before airships? maybe even before the gnomes stole the idea of elemental binding? They don't use air elementals, they use the energy of the manifest zone to Syrania to lift them. And nowhere in any of the books are the skycoach drivers described as "instructing the elementals," but just "piloting the coach." Also, I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of great coach drivers that aren't Lyrandar half-elves, or have high CHA.
Kid SixXx
08-08-07, 07:19 AM I dunno, often it seems that Pilot/Driver Skill is used to determine how well the elemental does what it's told. :)

Cannot disagree there. I'm also jumping on the bandwagon that's kinda stunned that elemental vehicle piloting hasn't really been addressed so far.
damc84
08-10-07, 11:44 AM Well, here's another question (btw, the search function isn't where it is said to be, I'm confuzzled). Suppose a skycoach driver gets incapacitated somehow and some PC's need to take over, or if a group of PC's just get their hands on a skycoach... what alternative skill check besides (trained only) Profession: Skycoach Pilot/Driver could be used? People have mentioned Ride, Use Magic Device... how about a simply moderately high DC Concentration check? Or is that only to be used in conjunction with another action?
Need_A_Life
08-11-07, 06:42 AM I'd use an opposed charisma check.

In addition, the more difficult things you're trying to do, the higher your roll needs to be.

DC 5: Stay airborne, keep course, turn.
DC 8: Sharp turn
DC 10: Parallel park
DC 15: Loop
DC 20: Whatever

Also, I believe there's a feat that gives +4 on Cha-based checks to control an elemental.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
damc84 08-06-07, 12:57 PM	How can this forum not have a search function? It makes it impossible to check if this has been answered already somewhere. At any rate, I hope someone can suggest what kind of game mechanic to use to drive a skycoach in Sharn. It could be similar to controlling an airship, except it should be easier, I think. Lyrandar heirs captain those ships and use an opposed Cha(?) roll vs. the fire or air elemental at +0. In contrast, hardly all of the skycoach boatmen in Sharn are dragonmarked and as far as I can tell they are fueled by something other than an elemental. Simple Fly spell maybe. Just want to know because as a DM I'd like to set the scene for a nice 3-dimensional skycoach chase :)
Kid SixXx 08-06-07, 01:09 PM	Well, it's not game canon but in the novel, Night of Long Shadows, it's suggested that the process of driving a skycoach is indeed similar to piloting an airship. Probably a minor air elemental bound to the skycoach and the process of controlling it (and the skycoach) might be easier than normal given the Syrania manifest zone that ecapsulates Sharn. I'd use your CHA check assumption if it were me.
damc84 08-06-07, 01:17 PM	Thanks for the quick feedback, I appreciate it :)
Kinger 08-06-07, 02:17 PM	I'd avoid suggesting any elemental binding. Otherwise you might get questions like "If this can be flown without a dragonmark, why can't I do the same with an airship?" Skycoaches are, as far as I can tell, just reflavored Flying Carpets whose construction is made cheaper by relying on Sharn's manifest zone. Really, that just boils down to a Fly spell. Having said that, I'd think that you'd want ranks in Profession: Pilot in order to do anything fancy with a skycoach. Maybe let it be the same skillcheck as necessary to fly an airship, maybe not. But make it a skill that your average cabby would have to invest in if he wanted to parallel park or fly upside down.
OctaviusIII 08-06-07, 02:21 PM	And as for the search function: it's near the top, just below where you log in and it says "Welcome, dmac84."
Kid SixXx 08-07-07, 06:09 AM	I'd avoid suggesting any elemental binding. Otherwise you might get questions like "If this can be flown without a dragonmark, why can't I do the same with an airship?" Eh, there are drastic differences between, say, driving a car and piloting an airplane and the DM has the ability to enforce such divergences in difficulty via feats, DC skill checks, skill pre-reqs, and such. Just because an elemental may be bound to both vehicles doesn't necessarily mean that the process in controlling both vehicles necessarily needs to be similar in ease even if they may be similar in process. (ie. both a car and an airplane can be made to go left or right by respective turning mechanisms, but one process is many times tricker than the other.) The DM can make piloting an airship as difficult or as easy as he sees fit to, if you're into enforcing that sort of thing. House Lyrandar should naturally boast the best pilots, own the best airships, and perhaps have some say in who gets to legally own an airship. But I don't think that having a dragonmark should be the pre-req for flying an airship. I'll have to check the RAW, but IIRC I don't think that is the case anyway.
Hopeless 08-07-07, 06:41 AM	How can this forum not have a search function? It makes it impossible to check if this has been answered already somewhere. At any rate, I hope someone can suggest what kind of game mechanic to use to drive a skycoach in Sharn. It could be similar to controlling an airship, except it should be easier, I think. Lyrandar heirs captain those ships and use an opposed Cha(?) roll vs. the fire or air elemental at +0. In contrast, hardly all of the skycoach boatmen in Sharn are dragonmarked and as far as I can tell they are fueled by something other than an elemental. Simple Fly spell maybe. Just want to know because as a DM I'd like to set the scene for a nice 3-dimensional skycoach chase :) How about the ride skill? Admittedly there's all that talk about using Charisma to persuade the elemental to go where you want to but surely diplomacy or intimidation will do just as well, but then what about Handle Animal? Its charisma based and it seems appropriate to have a ride skill specifically for sky coach or even airship perhaps...
Hopeless 08-07-07, 06:42 AM	I'd avoid suggesting any elemental binding. Otherwise you might get questions like "If this can be flown without a dragonmark, why can't I do the same with an airship?" Skycoaches are, as far as I can tell, just reflavored Flying Carpets whose construction is made cheaper by relying on Sharn's manifest zone. Really, that just boils down to a Fly spell. Having said that, I'd think that you'd want ranks in Profession: Pilot in order to do anything fancy with a skycoach. Maybe let it be the same skillcheck as necessary to fly an airship, maybe not. But make it a skill that your average cabby would have to invest in if he wanted to parallel park or fly upside down. Aren't you describing Use Magic Device though?
Arcane Guyver 08-07-07, 12:12 PM	Aren't you describing Use Magic Device though? Nah, UMD is mainly for the activation of magical shtuff. A little perplexing that this semi-basic issue hasn't been sorted out yet; I don't have my books on me, so unfortunately I can't look them up in the Sharn book. Still, I'd prefer that these items work as magic carpets, not another bound elemental item. That way, if you're having a chase scene involving two skycabs, the result depends more on the pilot's skill than the skill of the elemental bound within. It's the difference between: "Going that way is gonna be pretty tough, but I think I can handle it." and "Going that way is gonna be pretty tough. Hopefully the elemental will maneuver appropriately after I ask it."
Kid SixXx 08-07-07, 01:11 PM	That way, if you're having a chase scene involving two skycabs, the result depends more on the pilot's skill than the skill of the elemental bound within. The elemental only provides the propulsion for the vehicle, it doesn't decide where the vehicle should go. Pilot / Driver Skill should still be a factor.
Kinger 08-07-07, 04:10 PM	The elemental only provides the propulsion for the vehicle, it doesn't decide where the vehicle should go. Pilot / Driver Skill should still be a factor. I dunno, often it seems that Pilot/Driver Skill is used to determine how well the elemental does what it's told. :) They basically work out to the same thing, though.
Macrovore 08-07-07, 04:17 PM	but didn't they develop skycoaches before airships? maybe even before the gnomes stole the idea of elemental binding? They don't use air elementals, they use the energy of the manifest zone to Syrania to lift them. And nowhere in any of the books are the skycoach drivers described as "instructing the elementals," but just "piloting the coach." Also, I'm pretty sure that there are plenty of great coach drivers that aren't Lyrandar half-elves, or have high CHA.
Kid SixXx 08-08-07, 07:19 AM	I dunno, often it seems that Pilot/Driver Skill is used to determine how well the elemental does what it's told. :) Cannot disagree there. I'm also jumping on the bandwagon that's kinda stunned that elemental vehicle piloting hasn't really been addressed so far.
damc84 08-10-07, 11:44 AM	Well, here's another question (btw, the search function isn't where it is said to be, I'm confuzzled). Suppose a skycoach driver gets incapacitated somehow and some PC's need to take over, or if a group of PC's just get their hands on a skycoach... what alternative skill check besides (trained only) Profession: Skycoach Pilot/Driver could be used? People have mentioned Ride, Use Magic Device... how about a simply moderately high DC Concentration check? Or is that only to be used in conjunction with another action?
Need_A_Life 08-11-07, 06:42 AM	I'd use an opposed charisma check. In addition, the more difficult things you're trying to do, the higher your roll needs to be. DC 5: Stay airborne, keep course, turn. DC 8: Sharp turn DC 10: Parallel park DC 15: Loop DC 20: Whatever Also, I believe there's a feat that gives +4 on Cha-based checks to control an elemental.