druids and animal traps!!?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

druids and animal traps!!?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
richard leeuw
07-20-05, 07:18 PM hello,

i and my group and dm have a discussion on the eldeen reaches. we have created a small village in the eldeen reaches.
now they say that it is normal for the village to set snare traps to catch animals. this strikes me as odd, since it is a region that is under lead of druids and rangers mostly (even in our village of 60 souls). my believe is that snare traps are inhumane and cause needless animalhurt and traps a lot of wrong animals. there is said that the trappers are skilled so they won't catch the wrong animals or people.
i feel it also is against the honest hunting idea. but how far can one go with that? aren't bows to much technolegy to have an honest hunting?
my shifter druid is pro honest hunting for meat (it is the same as predators)
need help, a shifter druid in need!!
makeshiftwings
07-20-05, 07:36 PM In general, d&d druids don't really have to be vegetarian or animal rights activists. I don't think most would care about snares and hunting animals for food. They'd probably care if there were huge amounts of people snaring and selling fur for profit though; since it's more obviously a case of greed vs. nature.

Of course, you are always in charge of what you want your character to believe; if you want him to think that animals should only be killed when properly hunted, then you should feel free to. But I don't think that most of the Eldeen Reaches druids would necessarily agree... they'd probably see you as a bit of an irrational idealist.
Restless
07-20-05, 07:43 PM Besides, think about it. Nature is neutral, you see beauty and violence in nature. Killing an animal is ok, if you plan to use it for the survival of yourself and your family. Nature is all about balance. Once you lose the balance it's not natural. But, killing for survival is part of nature.
Cloud Divider
07-21-05, 05:10 PM hello,
now they say that it is normal for the village to set snare traps to catch animals. this strikes me as odd, since it is a region that is under lead of druids and rangers mostly (even in our village of 60 souls). my believe is that snare traps are inhumane and cause needless animalhurt and traps a lot of wrong animals.
I have a hard time imagining a snare is any less humane for the victim animal as a conventional "hunt" that ended poorly (victim maimed, but able to escape...ultimately bleeding to death or dying of starvation due to the injuries). Traps and the like aren't exactly unheard of in the animal kingdom anyway - pitcher plants drown their victims; spider webs are essentially sticky snares. You could say that fishing nets are roughly analogous to the stinger tendrils that jellyfish use (things end up in the tendrils/net, and you eat whatever's there).

Regarding catching "wrong" animals - what makes it a "wrong" animal? Was I really in the mood for rabbit, and ended up with a deer instead? Did I want deer, and ended up with a wolf? As long as you can eat it, what's the problem? Sorta like a fishing net, really...

How "predatory" is the village? Perhaps there are taboos against eating predators. That's certainly fine... It adds flavor.

Regarding your character's opinion - he's perfectly welcome to have it! He may indeed disagree with the practice of using snares. He could spend a great deal of time trying to convince the rest of his village otherwise.

Are snares any better than domestication? The result is similar - significantly reduced effort to get food (I leave a dozen snares out in order to catch enough rabbits for dinner...or I walk out to the chicken coop). If you're really into the dogma, one could consider a domesticated rabbit to be fundamentally different from a wild rabbit (something or other about domestication crushing the wild spirit of the animal). So snares may be acceptable given the alternative.

i feel it also is against the honest hunting idea.
You could go anywhere with that. Would "honest" hunting for a shifter (who HAS natural weapons) preclude the use of manufactured tools (spears, slings, blowguns, bow/arrow, etc)? Would "honest" hunting mean taking advantage of all of the gifts that The Great Maker chose to bestow you with (the wolf uses it's keen nose, sharp teeth, and intelligence to hunt...why can't we use our opposable thumbs to create tools of our own design?). A human can make the argument that they're extremely poorly suited to hunting without the use of tools quite easily. A shifter, on the other hand...

You could even have a dichotomy between your "feral" traditionalists (tooth and nail ONLY!), and your progressive technologists (huzzah for spears, bows, and mechanical advantage!).

but how far can one go with that? aren't bows to much technolegy to have an honest hunting?
my shifter druid is pro honest hunting for meat (it is the same as predators)
need help, a shifter druid in need!!
Again, I think there's probably an entire spectrum. There probably are some shifter tribes that go for feral atavism (hunt with tooth and claw), and others that are happy to use tools, weapons, traps, and domestication of livestock.

The technological level will very strongly limit the size of the tribe/settlement. The bigger the population, the more time is needed to provide sustenance (and more space for hunting grounds). You basically see that difference historically - hunter-gatherers tended to have relatively small communities (and often were nomadic); introducing farming and animal domestication means you don't need to go so far for food, and can generally handle a larger population.
Edymnion
07-21-05, 05:29 PM Yes, Druids are not tree hugging hippies.
They are not PETA.

They know that killing is as much a part of nature as the pretty flowers and fuzzy bunnies are. They are not vegetarian (actually, it was pretty much impossible to be vegetarian at that time, because there simply wasn't a wide enough array of vegetable stuff to keep a human from dying, you still need fats and proteins in your diet). Heck, they are often depicted (even in the PHB) as wearing furs and leather. They had to kill and butcher animals to get that fur and leather.

As long as no one is taking more than their fair share from the forest (aka they're just setting snares for themselves, they're not trolling the forest), then a druid shouldn't care. Its no differant than a wolf hunting a rabbit, and no more unnatural.

As for causing the animal pain in the process, just what do you call it when a mountain lion cub corners a rat, and spends the next hour "playing" with the frightened creature until it finally rips the thing apart? Or a wolf pack bringing down a large prey item by doing massive damage, and letting it bleed to death? Nature is not cute and cuddly. It is cold, effiecient, and cruel. For every nice warm scene you get, you get one that is bloody, painful, and nasty.

Thats why the Druid must be Neutral, because they must understand that the balance is more important than anything else. Yes, its nice to watch the wolf with cute little puppies. No, its not nice to watch that same wolf rip out a cute little bunny's jugular and lick the blood off it's lips. But both are equally necessarily for life to go on.
Mula
07-21-05, 05:52 PM I agree with everyone that druids can be perfectly fine with traps and manufactured weaponry (and they have spells, too!).

However, it's perfectly ok to have druids who consider traps and hunting bad. They're most likely Neutral Good. They identify more with the gentle aspects of Nature.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
richard leeuw 07-20-05, 07:18 PM	hello, i and my group and dm have a discussion on the eldeen reaches. we have created a small village in the eldeen reaches. now they say that it is normal for the village to set snare traps to catch animals. this strikes me as odd, since it is a region that is under lead of druids and rangers mostly (even in our village of 60 souls). my believe is that snare traps are inhumane and cause needless animalhurt and traps a lot of wrong animals. there is said that the trappers are skilled so they won't catch the wrong animals or people. i feel it also is against the honest hunting idea. but how far can one go with that? aren't bows to much technolegy to have an honest hunting? my shifter druid is pro honest hunting for meat (it is the same as predators) need help, a shifter druid in need!!
makeshiftwings 07-20-05, 07:36 PM	In general, d&d druids don't really have to be vegetarian or animal rights activists. I don't think most would care about snares and hunting animals for food. They'd probably care if there were huge amounts of people snaring and selling fur for profit though; since it's more obviously a case of greed vs. nature. Of course, you are always in charge of what you want your character to believe; if you want him to think that animals should only be killed when properly hunted, then you should feel free to. But I don't think that most of the Eldeen Reaches druids would necessarily agree... they'd probably see you as a bit of an irrational idealist.
Restless 07-20-05, 07:43 PM	Besides, think about it. Nature is neutral, you see beauty and violence in nature. Killing an animal is ok, if you plan to use it for the survival of yourself and your family. Nature is all about balance. Once you lose the balance it's not natural. But, killing for survival is part of nature.
Cloud Divider 07-21-05, 05:10 PM	hello, now they say that it is normal for the village to set snare traps to catch animals. this strikes me as odd, since it is a region that is under lead of druids and rangers mostly (even in our village of 60 souls). my believe is that snare traps are inhumane and cause needless animalhurt and traps a lot of wrong animals. I have a hard time imagining a snare is any less humane for the victim animal as a conventional "hunt" that ended poorly (victim maimed, but able to escape...ultimately bleeding to death or dying of starvation due to the injuries). Traps and the like aren't exactly unheard of in the animal kingdom anyway - pitcher plants drown their victims; spider webs are essentially sticky snares. You could say that fishing nets are roughly analogous to the stinger tendrils that jellyfish use (things end up in the tendrils/net, and you eat whatever's there). Regarding catching "wrong" animals - what makes it a "wrong" animal? Was I really in the mood for rabbit, and ended up with a deer instead? Did I want deer, and ended up with a wolf? As long as you can eat it, what's the problem? Sorta like a fishing net, really... How "predatory" is the village? Perhaps there are taboos against eating predators. That's certainly fine... It adds flavor. Regarding your character's opinion - he's perfectly welcome to have it! He may indeed disagree with the practice of using snares. He could spend a great deal of time trying to convince the rest of his village otherwise. Are snares any better than domestication? The result is similar - significantly reduced effort to get food (I leave a dozen snares out in order to catch enough rabbits for dinner...or I walk out to the chicken coop). If you're really into the dogma, one could consider a domesticated rabbit to be fundamentally different from a wild rabbit (something or other about domestication crushing the wild spirit of the animal). So snares may be acceptable given the alternative. i feel it also is against the honest hunting idea. You could go anywhere with that. Would "honest" hunting for a shifter (who HAS natural weapons) preclude the use of manufactured tools (spears, slings, blowguns, bow/arrow, etc)? Would "honest" hunting mean taking advantage of all of the gifts that The Great Maker chose to bestow you with (the wolf uses it's keen nose, sharp teeth, and intelligence to hunt...why can't we use our opposable thumbs to create tools of our own design?). A human can make the argument that they're extremely poorly suited to hunting without the use of tools quite easily. A shifter, on the other hand... You could even have a dichotomy between your "feral" traditionalists (tooth and nail ONLY!), and your progressive technologists (huzzah for spears, bows, and mechanical advantage!). but how far can one go with that? aren't bows to much technolegy to have an honest hunting? my shifter druid is pro honest hunting for meat (it is the same as predators) need help, a shifter druid in need!! Again, I think there's probably an entire spectrum. There probably are some shifter tribes that go for feral atavism (hunt with tooth and claw), and others that are happy to use tools, weapons, traps, and domestication of livestock. The technological level will very strongly limit the size of the tribe/settlement. The bigger the population, the more time is needed to provide sustenance (and more space for hunting grounds). You basically see that difference historically - hunter-gatherers tended to have relatively small communities (and often were nomadic); introducing farming and animal domestication means you don't need to go so far for food, and can generally handle a larger population.
Edymnion 07-21-05, 05:29 PM	Yes, Druids are not tree hugging hippies. They are not PETA. They know that killing is as much a part of nature as the pretty flowers and fuzzy bunnies are. They are not vegetarian (actually, it was pretty much impossible to be vegetarian at that time, because there simply wasn't a wide enough array of vegetable stuff to keep a human from dying, you still need fats and proteins in your diet). Heck, they are often depicted (even in the PHB) as wearing furs and leather. They had to kill and butcher animals to get that fur and leather. As long as no one is taking more than their fair share from the forest (aka they're just setting snares for themselves, they're not trolling the forest), then a druid shouldn't care. Its no differant than a wolf hunting a rabbit, and no more unnatural. As for causing the animal pain in the process, just what do you call it when a mountain lion cub corners a rat, and spends the next hour "playing" with the frightened creature until it finally rips the thing apart? Or a wolf pack bringing down a large prey item by doing massive damage, and letting it bleed to death? Nature is not cute and cuddly. It is cold, effiecient, and cruel. For every nice warm scene you get, you get one that is bloody, painful, and nasty. Thats why the Druid must be Neutral, because they must understand that the balance is more important than anything else. Yes, its nice to watch the wolf with cute little puppies. No, its not nice to watch that same wolf rip out a cute little bunny's jugular and lick the blood off it's lips. But both are equally necessarily for life to go on.
Mula 07-21-05, 05:52 PM	I agree with everyone that druids can be perfectly fine with traps and manufactured weaponry (and they have spells, too!). However, it's perfectly ok to have druids who consider traps and hunting bad. They're most likely Neutral Good. They identify more with the gentle aspects of Nature.