Post/Author/DateTime	Post
igotsmeakabob!! 01-18-06, 05:50 PM	Posted this in another thread but its long so I figure why not make it it's own topic.. it is supposed to be based in Eberron after all. Since the NDA has been lifted I can tell you guys that from alpha to beta DDO has been fun, but the amount of content is suffocating. You rarely leave Stormreach or its sewers for quests and as for an eberron feel, the only thing that makes it eberron are the warforged and a couple airships in the sky above the bazaar. the only religion thats discussed is the silver flame, except for one instance where an inquisitor gives you a quest to slaughter a small organization of sovereign host priests who have been taking in homeless and helping them. there are no evil alignments and the game only uses the 3.5 system when it can be fit in easily. Many of the spells have been altered and unless they release ALOT more quests I won't be playing it the max level is 10 and at level 6 I had done every quest in the game. The game's combat system is real time and twitch-reflexes based when it could've made like Baldur's Gate 2 or NWN. Combat is sometimes way too fast, with melee fighters racking up way more damage then spellcasters even into the higher levels. They get 2-4 hits for every 1 spell cast or every 1 arrow fired. There is little solo content, which is fine cuz its dungeons and dragons, but once you've played your first hour in-game if you don't get a group for the quests you won't finish them. The characters have little customization and you'll look very similar to everyone of your race. Same height and width and the options they DO give you are extremely limited. 5 different eyebrows, 3 different noses, 5 different mouths, 3 different scars 7 different bad-looking beards and 10 different hairstyles are your options. The equipment sometimes looks like pajamas or painted on but otherwise is top notch, the art team had some nice stuff. No, weapons will not be shown on your character unless they are drawn nor will there be a quiver, you draw your arrows from midair. There is voice chat for group which is a nice touch but is not often used. No pvp of any kind and extremely little high level content/quests means that once you reach level 10 the only thing to do is make a new character. Instead of 1000 xp to 2nd lvl its 10000 and no, the xp isnt multiplied by 10 either. Once you hit level 5 its repeat quest after repeat quest due to the low amount of quests. The games head developer, Ken Troop, is making DDO in his image of MUDs. His image consists of (this was what he said in an interview) repeating a quest until you know it by heart and can do it with your eyes closed. That isn't my image of good MMORPG play. To hit level 10 you have to repeat quests many times, around 10 times for every quest that WILL give you xp at level 9. The game has potential but unless its much different when released I'll be cancelling it the first month. There were a few quests where I felt I was actually in Eberron, and that was fun. But only a few quests were like that, the others weren't eberron and alot of them were good but the game requires ridiculously heavy repetition of quests to level.
Orion Polaris 01-18-06, 07:22 PM	Aw man, I was really looking forward to this game. If it's truly like the way you describe, then count me out. Of course, I'll look for other sources on this, but yeah, you're making it out to seem like there really isn't a lot of replay value to the game. No use getting it. I'll be happy to play Vanilla Eberron thank you.
Dragonmarked 01-18-06, 07:43 PM	Posted this in another thread but its long so I figure why not make it it's own topic.. it is supposed to be based in Eberron after all. Since the NDA has been lifted I can tell you guys that from alpha to beta DDO has been fun, but the amount of content is suffocating. You rarely leave Stormreach or its sewers for quests and as for an eberron feel, the only thing that makes it eberron are the warforged and a couple airships in the sky above the bazaar. the only religion thats discussed is the silver flame, except for one instance where an inquisitor gives you a quest to slaughter a small organization of sovereign host priests who have been taking in homeless and helping them. there are no evil alignments and the game only uses the 3.5 system when it can be fit in easily. Many of the spells have been altered and unless they release ALOT more quests I won't be playing it the max level is 10 and at level 6 I had done every quest in the game. The game's combat system is real time and twitch-reflexes based when it could've made like Baldur's Gate 2 or NWN. Combat is sometimes way too fast, with melee fighters racking up way more damage then spellcasters even into the higher levels. They get 2-4 hits for every 1 spell cast or every 1 arrow fired. There is little solo content, which is fine cuz its dungeons and dragons, but once you've played your first hour in-game if you don't get a group for the quests you won't finish them. The characters have little customization and you'll look very similar to everyone of your race. Same height and width and the options they DO give you are extremely limited. 5 different eyebrows, 3 different noses, 5 different mouths, 3 different scars 7 different bad-looking beards and 10 different hairstyles are your options. The equipment sometimes looks like pajamas or painted on but otherwise is top notch, the art team had some nice stuff. No, weapons will not be shown on your character unless they are drawn nor will there be a quiver, you draw your arrows from midair. There is voice chat for group which is a nice touch but is not often used. No pvp of any kind and extremely little high level content/quests means that once you reach level 10 the only thing to do is make a new character. Instead of 1000 xp to 2nd lvl its 10000 and no, the xp isnt multiplied by 10 either. Once you hit level 5 its repeat quest after repeat quest due to the low amount of quests. The games head developer, Ken Troop, is making DDO in his image of MUDs. His image consists of (this was what he said in an interview) repeating a quest until you know it by heart and can do it with your eyes closed. That isn't my image of good MMORPG play. To hit level 10 you have to repeat quests many times, around 10 times for every quest that WILL give you xp at level 9. The game has potential but unless its much different when released I'll be cancelling it the first month. There were a few quests where I felt I was actually in Eberron, and that was fun. But only a few quests were like that, the others weren't eberron and alot of them were good but the game requires ridiculously heavy repetition of quests to level. I've been beta testing DDO since November. However, I am a fan of the game and have been enjoying my experience greatly. You can't play DDO the same way you play, say, WoW or Everquest. It's an entirely different beast. The OP is right, most of the quests take place in or around Stormreach- you rarely leave the city (much like City of Heroes). Though it may seem like sewers are the most frequent areas of questing, that's really only true for the beginning levels. I've been in crypts, outdoors in the jungle, temple ruins, lava-filled caves, etc. Quests are exciting and require you to be on your toes. Traps are deadly, and sometimes the floor will even give way under your feet causing you to fall. The combat is real time, but an auto-attack feature is available which would require you to simply make sure your character is in range to attack. You can tumble and block (with the appropriate skills) and I've found that spellcasters are a force to be reckoned with. The hardest monsters in the game are spellcasters. You can sheathe your weapons, though they don't show on your avatar when not in use. A minor complaint if you ask me. At level 6, I've only repeated quests so that those in my party who haven't done them yet could finish them. I know there's a lot more content for me to explore and Turbine has said they are going to release content on a monthly basis. The trick to playing DDO is to take your time and play with a solid group of friends. Be cautious and slow on your way through the dungeons and, most importantly, roleplay. If you get to level 10 in a month before the new content comes out, I doubt there's any new game out there that would be able to keep up with your levelling. The character creation is more detailed than the OP described, depending on the race. Humans have a far wider range of facial features to choose from than the others. It's true that you can't scale your height or weight, but you can't do that in WoW either. It's not really an issue for me. There's a lot of people who are going to complain that there's not enough content. Most of those people haven't actually completed it all and are jumping on the bandwagon. It's true that questing is the only way to get XP and is basically the only way to further your character. . . but it's that way in DnD too. There's no crafting yet, nor any PvP, but I never cared for either of those features anyway. When artificers are released, I'm sure some sort of crafting system will be presented, though I would think it would be pretty simplistic. In a nutshell, I like DDO and anyone who was thinking of playing it but decided not to based on someone else's opinion is doing themselves a great disservice. Play it and make up your own mind. It's a fun game, but it's not for everyone. It was never meant to be.
DanjaNinja 01-18-06, 08:12 PM	I just have a few things to say. First, the OPs comments on visuals is pretty accurate. There's simply not a lot of difference between any two characters of the same race and gender. This is alleviated somewhat by the large variety of equipment designs and colors, but if visual customization is your dig then you will be disappointed. Personally, the only thing that bothers me is the rather wimpy full plate my fighter has. I wanted knight in shining armor and I got metallic jumpsuit. As far as rules go, they actually follow 3.5 very closely. Obviously some changes needed to be made for real-time online play, but I always feel like I'm playing D&D. Melee combat is pretty hectic; a lot of players like to go for a very mobile, tumble-central fighting style, but a relatively stationary sword & board fighter is entirely feasible too. The only thing I'm really iffy about is spellcasters. Aiming spells is hard. Damaging area of effect spells don't affect allies, but others do (like grease and glitterdust), which in my mind really cuts down their viability. Many people on the beta boards didn't have a problem with that, but I certainly did. The one really big problem I saw with the game was the relatively small amount of quests, especially at higher levels. If you carefully pace yourself, you can get to maybe level 6 without too many quest repeats, but beyond that repeating is a must. They say they're planning on adding a lot more quests after release, so I personally will probably hold off on buying for a month or two, since I've already been through the low levels numerous times. Beyond that, it's a pretty fun MMO. I look forward to it, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some awesome expansions. *coughsharncough* Short version: I'm cautiously optimistic.
igotsmeakabob!! 01-18-06, 08:35 PM	Heh if you noticed I said I'd be cancelling it the first month, implying I'm still buying the game and trying it out. I'm never one to quit on a game because of the beta, unless the beta was so bad that I puked emotionally. After all I bought SWG after playing the beta. Dragonmarked, the problem with the quests isn't how they're designed, most of them are really great and they recently added a DM voice to the DM text which I LOVED. But the problem is the number of quests. The first time I go through a dungeon with people who haven't done it either its great! Exciting, dangerous, have to be VERY careful.. but after the second time it isn't exciting, its repetetive. Its even worse if the first time I go through one or more of the people have done it already, because they know where everything is and whats going to happen and they warn you so you don't die. That kills the excitement. It prevents the danger. It makes it so unless the trap is ridiculous and theres no physical way to get by it there isn't even any caution! Its been suggested so many times to the devs but at this point it seems like it won't happen... the suggestion so many people put out. Randomize it a bit. Make it so that group of kobolds is patrolling a different route. Hide that troll behind a different door. Change the numbers of that drow group. Put that trap somewhere else. Hell change the layout of the dungeon a bit. THAT would keep it exciting. THAT would keep it dangerous. It would cause constant caution. It would DESTROY the repetition. It would make the game ridiculously fun. But it isn't going to happen to release. Its sad. Its unfortunate. It'd be great if it did. But it won't. I'm still buying it at release. I'm still hoping for alot more quests. I'm still hoping it'll do the Eberron and D&D name right. I can only hope.
Uller999 01-18-06, 08:36 PM	I played on my friends beta and observed him play quite a bit and I must whilst I sure as hell won't pay money monthly to play a game I would have already had to pay money for; I do think the game is alot more analogous to DnD than say WoW or Final Fantasy 11 or any of the other MMORPG. The monsters look like you would expect them to look. Trolls exactly like troll from the MM, the Order of the emerald Claw guys actually used different races and different facials builds (which if you compare this to say CoH that's a huge increase in variability). I found the game to be at least visually saitsfying. To be honest, in a game that use such detailed tectures I don't see how you could really convey the difference in say humans, I mean you could make them shorter or slimmer probably but a human is a human is a human. when they are both in full plate who knows what they actually look like. Warforged in the game look awesome by the way, I played around the creation enginer for near an hour to see how those work and with docents you can even more profoundly beautify your warforged. I liked the game for what I saw. Also, the game is in Beta, so for you testers who don't like it, you should probably tell the devs what you don't like and why. For everone else, I'd suggest like with all game read reviews in the like after the mainlaunch release and try the game out if possible. ps. as a side not (not that this is the place to discuss this) does anyone know anything about this RF online game? I've seen rendering for it and it looks pretty but I don't anything about the game really
igotsmeakabob!! 01-18-06, 08:53 PM	Uller, for RF Online try http://www.codemasters.com/rfonline/news.php Thats their site. Its a sci-fi MMORPG with an anime feel, still in beta. I got into 3rd phase beta but it'll be a week or so before I can activate my account. And as for your "propose the changes to the devs" suggestion, thats what beta testers do. Hell, 2 of my recommendations actually went through and effected the game. The one I really wanted didn't. That one was that Warforged should have 2 character models to choose from, the standard big-ass mauling WF and a slimmer model for casters, rogues, rangers, and those that want a more nimble WF. A member of the art team replied and said they didn't have enough time, its all good. Also WF can drown, be poisoned, diseased, everything they immunity to they have a +4 to resist instead. Whatever. Plus darkvision and low light vision aren't in the game, but thats a minor quip. Probably. Due to game stuff the race balance seems to be outta wack, with humans being the most effective since nothing they racially was reduced or made useless.
Uller999 01-18-06, 08:55 PM	true, but halfling can break dance. I did see that site, I guess I just didn't have a feel for how incomplete the game is and evidently its quite incomplete.
Edymnion 01-18-06, 09:13 PM	Personally, I'm still miffed that they handled the visuals of the Warforged so badly. They aren't warforged models, they're just the same old human bodies with a differant skin. You would think that a race with built in armor plates would actually, you know, HAVE ARMORED PLATES, not just airbrushed on textures. Really people, I do 3D modeling. Give me that humanoid body mesh, and in an hour or two I'll give you some composit plating on it. Its not like I want to see polygonal grooves in the screws holding the plates on or whatever, but come on, the DDO WF look more like some guy with a full body tattoo than they do living constructs.
igotsmeakabob!! 01-18-06, 09:18 PM	Thank you Edy.
Velocinox 01-19-06, 11:58 AM	Personally, I'm still miffed that they handled the visuals of the Warforged so badly. They aren't warforged models, they're just the same old human bodies with a differant skin. You would think that a race with built in armor plates would actually, you know, HAVE ARMORED PLATES, not just airbrushed on textures. Really people, I do 3D modeling. Give me that humanoid body mesh, and in an hour or two I'll give you some composit plating on it. Its not like I want to see polygonal grooves in the screws holding the plates on or whatever, but come on, the DDO WF look more like some guy with a full body tattoo than they do living constructs. The extrusions you are talking about, such as armored plates are thanks to polygons and the more the model has the more resources it claims to draw them. Causing lower-end cards to have low frame rates, or even dropped frames. on the other hand, the polygonal groves (hex screws maybe?) on the screws holding the plates in would be a combination of bump-mapping and applied texture. which are generally less stressful on the video hardware. (dependant on vid card memory and the ability to do bump-mapping which most modern vid cards can) in the end it would actually be easier on the video card to have the highly detailed screws (WoW's preferred modelling style) than it would to have the extruding plates visible (EQ2's modelling style) but since you do 3D modelling, you already knew all of this.
Chiyo 01-19-06, 12:01 PM	I've been in the beta since November but have pretty much stopped playing about a month ago due to lack of content beyond level 5-6 (out of 10). For my relatively casual play style (playing about 10-15 hours a week max), there is about 6 weeks worth of content available, possibly less once the game isn't as new to most players (i.e. not as much trial and error in groups discovering the content rather than repeating it). That's not such a hot deal for the $40-50 box price especially when I've already gone thru 95% of it. Otherwise, OP's comments are spot on. I had fun while playing as long as there was content for me to sample but repeating quests gets extremely boring very quickly. Repeatability with a different class is very low since you don't really have class-specific quests but a set of fixed instances. Especially boring if you play with a regular group rather than a pickup group. With pickup groups, there's always some guy for whom it's the first time around and you feel that you're actually helping them even if it's a repeat for you. But if you play with regular group of players, you all have done the same quests several times and everyone is bored with the lack of variety. It's just grinding on the best XP for the time quests. For those who don't like feeling on a pointless hamster wheel, it's not a lot of fun. I probably won't buy it at release. I've played many MMORPGs and content is the least easy (slowest) thing to come up with. Many companies promise to provide free content monthly additions but usually it means little new content (and lots of bug /balance fixes/ gameplay improvements) on much slower pace than promised and the rest going for expansion packs you have to pay for. So I'll most likely wait and see how it goes. If it really happens that they do add content quickly, I'll probably jump on it but otherwise, I think I'll pass despite how fun the game is until you hit the content wall.
cancerousmango 01-19-06, 12:13 PM	If I were making the decisions, it would definitely be set in Khorvaire. I get tingly thinking about how fun that would be traipsing across the most detailed and vibrant continent in the setting. But no, instead we get dungeons crawls in Xen'Drik. Until something cool like that comes out, not worth my time. For those of you who like it, game on! :D
Velocinox 01-19-06, 12:35 PM	If I were making the decisions, it would definitely be set in Khorvaire. I get tingly thinking about how fun that would be traipsing across the most detailed and vibrant continent in the setting. But no, instead we get dungeons crawls in Xen'Drik. Until something cool like that comes out, not worth my time. For those of you who like it, game on! :D If I were making the decisions I would have set it in Forgotten Realms for the same reason, but more so. Both our ideas wouldn't see light of day for a long time though simply due to the amount of content and world-building you would have to do. I mean Sharn alone would take as much time as most whole games.
Velocinox 01-19-06, 12:39 PM	I've been in the beta since November but have pretty much stopped playing about a month ago due to lack of content beyond level 5-6 (out of 10). For my relatively casual play style (playing about 10-15 hours a week max), there is about 6 weeks worth of content available, possibly less once the game isn't as new to most players (i.e. not as much trial and error in groups discovering the content rather than repeating it). That's not such a hot deal for the $40-50 box price especially when I've already gone thru 95% of it. Otherwise, OP's comments are spot on. I had fun while playing as long as there was content for me to sample but repeating quests gets extremely boring very quickly. Repeatability with a different class is very low since you don't really have class-specific quests but a set of fixed instances. Especially boring if you play with a regular group rather than a pickup group. With pickup groups, there's always some guy for whom it's the first time around and you feel that you're actually helping them even if it's a repeat for you. But if you play with regular group of players, you all have done the same quests several times and everyone is bored with the lack of variety. It's just grinding on the best XP for the time quests. For those who don't like feeling on a pointless hamster wheel, it's not a lot of fun. I probably won't buy it at release. I've played many MMORPGs and content is the least easy (slowest) thing to come up with. Many companies promise to provide free content monthly additions but usually it means little new content (and lots of bug /balance fixes/ gameplay improvements) on much slower pace than promised and the rest going for expansion packs you have to pay for. So I'll most likely wait and see how it goes. If it really happens that they do add content quickly, I'll probably jump on it but otherwise, I think I'll pass despite how fun the game is until you hit the content wall. Agreed, but I find it funny that we decide to not buy a game for lack of content, yet so many bought WoW because it did have plenty of content, only to realize later it was all fluff content and the actual gameplay was flat and monotonous. There was simply no challenge. 3 characters to 60 in an attempt to find challenge and all I learned was I'd rather think while playing an MMO than have 6 dozen boring, mindless tasks to choose from.
Edymnion 01-19-06, 12:46 PM	but since you do 3D modelling, you already knew all of this.Yes, I do. And I also know that they could have done the armor plates without raising the polygon count by simply moving some of the vertexes around the edges closer together, and then extending the center polies forwards. It would have created a series of 3D plates, and would not have increased the poly count by 1 lousy polygon. Depending on how it was done, it could have even DECREASED the poly count, due to not having as much curving body shape in the plates. I know modeling, and I know that the plates could have been added with minimal time and effort, without affecting framerates. But it wasn't done. And with how unfinished the rest of the game is, I highly suspect it was done because all they did was copy/paste the code from one of the other races, change the skin, and changed the racial traits. To me, the WF look like they were copy/pasted from existing work instead of tailor made for the game, which is just sloppy work for a professional release.
Velocinox 01-19-06, 01:01 PM	But you overlook the requirement to store another model. Most current 3D rendering systems allow templates. As far as the rendering software is concerned optimization of a model with one more/less poly, or altered vertices or spines, means an all new template that has to be stored. Hence DDO's use of the human model with new textures as a warforged. Why do you think so many 3D games have different colored versions of the exact same model? Resource conservation.
Golbez57 01-19-06, 01:32 PM	I tested DDO from the time of the September Alpha invites until mid-December, when I had repeated Blue Screen of Death Errors that, with the help of others, were tracked back to my SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 for Dell PCs sound card. I didn't have issues until the in-game voicechat was added. There was much to enjoy in the game, and a generous number of Eberron-esue things included by my reckoning, but I came to a point when I realized there were more pressing, affordable, and ultimately enjoyable things for me to do in real-life than online gaming, so I won't be playing the release version (or other online games). I feel the game is worth a look from D&D fans who also enjoy MMOs. If you're mostly interested in it--as I was--to get a better feel for Xen'drik for translation to a tabletop game, the strategy guide and online resources might serve you just as well.
Edymnion 01-19-06, 02:21 PM	But you overlook the requirement to store another model.The change could be done quite easily as a modular thing. Just like changing the hair shape on a character. You don't have to save an entire model just to make one change. You can do modular design, or just use body morphs to keep the same base model, and just have it render differantly at runtime, with no real increase in requirements. The point is, though, that the game is unfinished to the point that I hope they are just using a placeholder for the warforged. If it ships with that body, it will be unnacceptable.
Velocinox 01-19-06, 02:54 PM	You're right. SW:G does it by using this method. Ever get low frame rates in SW:G? Dropped frames? Does opening a door to a new area stop your client in its tracks and freeze you for a moment while the engine renders all of this? Everyone experiences this, including users with high-end, latest generation cards on powerful rigs and SW:G is a two year old game. It's an inefficient method that technology still hasn't caught up to. render pre-calculation templates solve this issue.
igotsmeakabob!! 01-19-06, 03:07 PM	Edy I can promise you that the WF model used now will be the one used in the full release of the game, as sorry as that is.
Velocinox 01-19-06, 03:37 PM	It's not 'sorry'. It's the same method that Blizzard used with WoW. WoW just used bright primary colors, which it has been proven to be recognized and responded to as early as infancy. Perhaps if the warforged were bright red with yellow and blue trim it would seem more appealing.
Chiyo 01-19-06, 03:42 PM	Agreed, but I find it funny that we decide to not buy a game for lack of content, yet so many bought WoW because it did have plenty of content, only to realize later it was all fluff content and the actual gameplay was flat and monotonous. There was simply no challenge. 3 characters to 60 in an attempt to find challenge and all I learned was I'd rather think while playing an MMO than have 6 dozen boring, mindless tasks to choose from. I'm not about to praise WoW too much either seeing that I gave up on it after 4 months and 2 60s (one in MC set gear). That game has lots of junk tasks which are just as poor grinding experience as repeating instances over and over in DDO. But I didn't feel that there was as much lack of interesting content. Again, at my pace, I explored WoW to my satisfaction and it took me about 4 months after release on top of about 2-3 months in beta of WoW. I think it'd have been longer if it were all beta considering the amount of quest spoilers available in WoW vs for DDO. And I played on PVP server so even without the PvE content, there was somewhat of an alternative end game (albeit one that was as stale as the PvE one but at least that was an additional option). Also, some of the raid content in WoW was somewhat challenging until you found the right way to go about doing the encounters. I haven't really found much more complex or difficult challenge in DDO. Maybe even less actually. All in all, despite arriving to the conclusion that I'd most likely play neither for the long term, I felt that DDO as it is currently is less compelling than WoW was. I spent about the same time playing the beta of each but I still purchased WoW and played it extensively after release. Anyway, if you look at it as a short term game, it's still worth playing for those who haven't been in beta. Many stand-alone games have a much shorter shelf life than a month or two and as D&D fan, it was still a good experience while it lasted.
Velocinox 01-19-06, 03:50 PM	Again I agree. I think DDO needs more content, but I applaud them for taking MMOs in a new direction. It's about the quest, not standing in the middle of a pretty forest wacking bunnies until I get the next level. The dungeons feel more tailored than any other MMO, they just need more of them. The unfortunate side-effect of tailored detailed dungeons with traps and hazards like no other MMO, is that once you experience it, the tailored effect is finished. You need manifold more instances than a typical MMO for this not to get repetitive.
igotsmeakabob!! 01-19-06, 04:01 PM	Makes me wonder if they knew what they were getting into when they made a completely instanced game, I mean that kind of plan for questing and getting experience means that unless they have alot of quests it'll get repetetive and boring quickly, no matter how much work they put into it (and it is alot of work, and the quests are detailed) ... until I read Ken Troop's comments on how he was shaping the game in his own image. Then I knew that he knew what he was doing when he started. His image of repetition to the point of doing the quest with your eyes closed. According to him he is basing the game on his experience with MUDs, and how he enjoyed them. Doing them so many times that he mastered them and had no trouble going through them. It seemed to me like Mr. Troop was making a game for himself and not for the public. But whatever, if its good (and I hope it is) then all the better. I can only hope.
Velocinox 01-19-06, 04:08 PM	I don't know if that's his real feelings or if he's wearing his marketing hat and taking that position ex post facto. If he truly felt that way, why are there tons of quests that were scheduled to be built for release that were cut because they weren't finished enough? There is a higher power in MMOs and that's the publisher's cash. It's quite likely Atari handed them a deadline and they have to meet it content be damned. If that's the case then they probably wanted to have the higher ratio of tailored quests than they do now. They just have to cover what they have right now and the business model of 'all hands pulling in the same direction' means Ken Troop and the Turbine devs have to paste on a fake smile and say 'Yea, the lack of content was what we always intended' even though it was just Atari being unreasonable. I might add, that considering DDO is a licensed property, it could even be voices right here at WOTC that are putting the pressure on them. We don't know. A lot goes on behind the developer/publisher curtain before an MMO ships.
igotsmeakabob!! 01-19-06, 04:18 PM	Velo the interview was conducted right when the beta started, forgot the exact date. This leads me to believe that he wasn't saying this to make it seem that its how he meant it to be. This was what he wanted, hopefully we'll get what we want too. The game is great but there just aren't enough quests as it is. The most I would want to repeat a quest would be twice. As it stands, doing every quest, you would need to do them many more times, probably around 5 or 6 times. And some of them are long.
Velocinox 01-19-06, 04:35 PM	Those quests I mentioned were removed about the same time. I am sure what would be ready for release would have been discussed before letting the public in to see your work (NDA not withstanding, people talk) And I don't see the 5 or 6 times per quest being a reasonable number. I have yet to do any quest I didn't like that many times. I will do 'Inlet of Ire' that many times simply because I like it that much. It's more like 2 or 3 required for normal progression. From 8th to 10th however, does require repetition beyond reasonable replay. I think we agree on the biggest problem, but I am willing to play through it and give them a chance to build the necessary content. I mean, I've done the same for most other MMOs except EQ1 and WoW. (Publishers really should start drawing the logical parallels between 'lots to do' and the success of these two titles. Now we just have to convince them we can think as well as just 'kill 12 foozits to recover the hallowed widget of doom'.)
Edymnion 01-19-06, 04:41 PM	It's not 'sorry'. It's the same method that Blizzard used with WoW. WoW just used bright primary colors, which it has been proven to be recognized and responded to as early as infancy. Perhaps if the warforged were bright red with yellow and blue trim it would seem more appealing.Funny, I look at WoW and I see elves with big pointy ears, orcs with tusks, taurens with horns, and those little guys, whatever they are. Those races all have unique models to represent them. Which is what we wanted for the WF in DDO.
igotsmeakabob!! 01-19-06, 04:43 PM	Oh the repetition I speak of is from 6 or 7 to 10. We do agree on the same problem. If they add more content at release of afterwards I'll be super happy... constantly adding a few quests every few weeks would be great! It can happen, if they do it would be a nice little package.
Velocinox 01-19-06, 05:51 PM	Funny, I look at WoW and I see elves with big pointy ears, orcs with tusks, taurens with horns, and those little guys, whatever they are. Those races all have unique models to represent them. Which is what we wanted for the WF in DDO. And I look at an average warforged and I don't see armor plates protruding from their humanoid form. Warforged (http://www.keljeu.com/images/p/roles/dungeons_et_dragons/eberron/deco/warforged.jpg) This is the warforged presented in the EBC and RoE. The base models in WoW are uniformly low on polys and they make up for it with texture tricks. They can achieve these tricks with the higher color palette. (The red WF with yellow and blue trim I mentioned above) You can't pull that off with DDO, because they want a more realistic appearance. No super bright colors and curves that are at best strangely tipped polys. If you like the 'Fantasy punk' look that warcraft is known for (and is derived from old White Dwarf and Games Workshop art of the early 80s) then you can have bright purple trolls and hide the fact that you have exceptionally blocky and low-tech models. But if you're looking for realism, the more subdued colors will have to be used. These will take any unsophisticated models you have and make them look horrible. You have to use higher polygon models so the triangle fingers and horns just wont do. Since a realistic view of the warforged outline is almost identical to a human, you use the same model.
allenchan 01-19-06, 06:00 PM	Funny, I look at WoW and I see elves with big pointy ears, orcs with tusks, taurens with horns, and those little guys, whatever they are. Those races all have unique models to represent them. Which is what we wanted for the WF in DDO. Bah! I wanted the models in DDO to look nothing like WoW models. They're the one reason I don't play the game. If I wanted cartoons I'd turn on the TV. SWG, for beign the surreal pile of steaming poo that it is, had the best character creation/models out of any MMO I've played.
igotsmeakabob!! 01-19-06, 06:09 PM	Yes it did Allen, yes it did... CoH was good too, but can't compare to SWG.
Beleriphon 01-19-06, 07:49 PM	Well, For those that want plating on the 'forged take a body feat. It does change the way the warforged looks.
igotsmeakabob!! 01-20-06, 05:11 AM	Actually it doesn't. The only way to change the look of a WF is to get docents. They radically alter your appearance, adding armor essentially.
Dansan 01-20-06, 06:44 AM	From what I'm reading here, there is no way I'd ever spend money on DDO. In fact, you couldn't get me to play it if it were free! Now, I do play a lot of Guild Wars, but given the choice of actually rolling dice in a world that feels like Eberron or playing something for the 5th time already with a warforged that doesn't even look very warforged, the choice is very easy. Give me those dice!
DargonSwift 01-20-06, 09:35 AM	You're right. SW:G does it by using this method. Ever get low frame rates in SW:G? Dropped frames? Does opening a door to a new area stop your client in its tracks and freeze you for a moment while the engine renders all of this? Everyone experiences this, including users with high-end, latest generation cards on powerful rigs and SW:G is a two year old game. It's an inefficient method that technology still hasn't caught up to. render pre-calculation templates solve this issue. I don't know anything about 3D graphics, but I'll side with Edy on this. I played SWG for two years, with a system far from high-end, and I did not experience the gross frame loss or client issues you claim to be so prevelant. I'm sure there is a solution to the warforged "bodysuit" look.
Atlictoatl 01-20-06, 11:36 AM	I'm not in the public beta of DDO, and I haven't fully digested this entire thread, so take this comment with those limitations in mind. I have, however, beta-tested other MMORPGs. Invariably, these games withhold a fair degree of the quests that will be present at game release from the public beta, because they don't want all of the content to be known to the testing public pre-release. They use their in-house testers to test such content, using the general feedback from the public testers to inform their content design decisions on the 'secret' content. The job of public testers is not primarily to test fundamental content, but rather to stress-test how the game perfoms (mechanically and creatively) when hundreds or thousands of people are playing it. I'm not saying that is what is happening with DDO's lack of content, but it is a possibility. IMO, it's worth waiting for product release before writing the product off completely. It's the nature of a beta to identify the things that the fan-base hates, dislikes, is indifferent to, and loves, and to make last-hour design changes based on that feedback.
Temjinstrife 01-20-06, 12:03 PM	I was part of the public beta for the few days it existed... I have to say that the game was very fun and fast-paced, which was a nice change compared to most MMOs and the like out there. The quests were impressively done, and I really have no complaint about the warforged look really... the plating looks pretty impressive (granted, I do have a high-end graphics card) and, while not resembling massive full plate or anything, looks like the "plated shell held together with strands of fibrous materials in a humanoid shape" that warforged are described as being. I don't like how most races have been toned down however... Warforged who take a body feat will fear water sections because they can't take off their armor and can drown. It's really a balance issue between not having to take ranks in Swim to be the best swimmer in the game, or taking ranks in Swim so that you don't get left behind. I do think amount of content is an issue, but I doubt that they would release all of the quests they have created in the beta... that's just bad business planning. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see how much content is released regularly. Again, though, the game was fun and a little different, and I will certainly be watching it's progress with interest...
DanjaNinja 01-20-06, 12:15 PM	From what I'm reading here, there is no way I'd ever spend money on DDO. In fact, you couldn't get me to play it if it were free! Now, I do play a lot of Guild Wars, but given the choice of actually rolling dice in a world that feels like Eberron or playing something for the 5th time already with a warforged that doesn't even look very warforged, the choice is very easy. Give me those dice! Well, it's a fun game with detailed quests, there's simply not enough of them. If you're just a casual player, they'll have had plenty of time after release to add more quests before you get burned out on the ones there. Plus, IMO, the people complaining about the warforged models are just being nitpicky. Take a look at the screenshots (http://www.ddo.com/?page_id=71) and decide for yourself. If you're into computer games and MMOs, I'd recommend checking it out. If you're looking for DDO to replace the tabletop, you'll be disappointed.
Chiyo 01-20-06, 02:11 PM	I don't like how most races have been toned down however... Warforged who take a body feat will fear water sections because they can't take off their armor and can drown. It's really a balance issue between not having to take ranks in Swim to be the best swimmer in the game, or taking ranks in Swim so that you don't get left behind. That'd just be a gross mistake to force warforged to need to breath underwater. It's a major bug IMO. I do think amount of content is an issue, but I doubt that they would release all of the quests they have created in the beta... that's just bad business planning. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see how much content is released regularly. That's somewhat true of some MMORPGs but less true recently. A lot of MMORPGs in the old days underestimated how fast some hardcore players go thru content. So they shipped a game that was ok on the low to mid-level play with very little high-level stuff thinking they'd have time while people reach that point to add or polish the end game content. And that's arguably an ok tactic if the faster players take already a long time to get to that end game but DDO is far from that. A hardcore player could get to it in a week I think, playing 12 hours a day like some do. Maybe two weeks at the most considering what's currently available. That's clearly not enough time to come up with much new stuff. As far as keeping high level content from beta, I think most developpers now know better than to do that. WoW for example had a decent amount of lvl 60 raid content and dungeons in the last part of beta, including the stress test. They even had a challenge to see how fast players could get to Onyxia during beta to gauge pace of hardcore gamers. Sure they added a dungeon or two later but most of what shipped was available during beta. The reason not to keep stuff from testers is simple. That's the very point of testing. If they later release a dungeon that somehow gets bugged like the marketplace tent was until recently, you'd have no longer angry beta testers but paying customers who cancel their subscription. It's bad for business to release untested stuff. So even if they keep content out of beta - which they gave no indication of to the testers -, it'd most likely be copycats of tried and true existing instances. That'd work but it doesn't really add much to the game if it's just repeat of some instances with tougher mobs and traps. Also, I don't know how they plan to get any raid content in (more than one group), if this setup is not extensively tested. Now, maybe they don't plan on having raid content any more but that'd be a big let down for people who enjoy this style of play (and that's apparently a good chunk of the MMORPG market considering the success of WoW, EQ, etc. that do emphasise that in end-game). But hey, time will tell. That's why a lot of beta testers are sitting tight waiting to see how launch will be and what content will be available then. Still, there are other issues on top of lack of content. My second main issue was lack of motivation to get stuff in end game. Let's face it, one of the reasons to keep playing a lot of those MMORPGs once you've reach the top level and all the abilities you can get is for loot accumulation. Especially when you don't have any PvP to engage in (even as dumbed down as WoW PvP is, there IS something). But repeating instances, you'd get quickly to about optimal gear for your level. You'd even start seeing drops that nobody is gonna be able to use for a while due to level requirements on them (i.e. lvl 11+ items that you can't use since cap is at level 10). Out of the ones you could use, drops were really getting boring and repetitive quickly thus removing incentive to repeat that instance one more time to get a shot at something really cool. Maybe that lack of loot collecting incentive correlated the repeat instance ad nauseum wall but both are not IMO very much in synch with the traditional MMORPG crowd. Maybe there is enough market outside of it, especially considering the D&D license popularity but I doubt it. Again, we'll see. I really hope it works out actually.
igotsmeakabob!! 01-20-06, 02:23 PM	Chiyo if you think that the WF drowning is a bug your badly mistaken. They purposely did it so that WF couldn't ruin their dungeons with important water parts. But don't worry about water parts, once you hit level 4 or 5 you can start using Helmets of Water Breathing with allow permanent waterbreathing, widely available in the pawnshops. Same reason why WF can be poisoned, diseased, level drained etc. but only have +4 to resist them. They threw the entire race balance out whack when they made alot of the races traits useless (darkvision/lowlight). WF have all of the disadvantages, but little of the advantages. In the end the race that ends up best is human, because all of his abilities still work. Extra feat and skill points. In the end the best race to choose is human because all of the other races are gimped one way or the other.
makeshiftwings 01-20-06, 05:20 PM	But you overlook the requirement to store another model. Most current 3D rendering systems allow templates. As far as the rendering software is concerned optimization of a model with one more/less poly, or altered vertices or spines, means an all new template that has to be stored. Hence DDO's use of the human model with new textures as a warforged. Why do you think so many 3D games have different colored versions of the exact same model? Resource conservation. Come on, you can't be serious. The fact that they re-used the human model for warforged is plain developer laziness. And I think you know this, by the way you keep changing your argument from "It's because the polycount would be too high" to "Ok, not the polycount, but storing an extra model uses up too much RAM" to "Ok, storing an extra model's fine but they would have to use primary colors" to "Hey, I'm going to try to change the subject by pretending that anyone who disagrees with me is a World of Warcraft fan."
Velocinox 01-20-06, 06:41 PM	I was simply responding to Edymnion's posts. I wasn't the one changing the point. And concerning the WoW reaction. let me quote Shakespeare... "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Why do you get upset when people don't like WoW?
Beleriphon 01-21-06, 01:31 AM	Something to keep in mind as well is that warforged, when selecting a body feat, do get extra plating. This is a change from the previous test where they had an image textured body. This game is in Beta, it is not finished, so don't go judging it too harshly. Also check this screen shot out: http://ddoimages.turbine.com/files/20/14/00/60/558.jpg Two humans and a warforged, they look pretty different to me.
igotsmeakabob!! 01-21-06, 03:47 AM	Thats a docent making the WF look different.
Streamweaver 01-21-06, 11:26 AM	I've been in the beta for DDO since Sept and strickly from an Eberron perspective the game is pretty poor. I enjoy it as a DnD MMO, but I think the implementation of Eberron itself is rather poor. Preping my weekly game now so don't have the time for a full analysis of it's Eberron-ness but here are some random reasons I have for saying that: - Dragonmarked houses are kind of a backdrop. There is little in the way of interaction between them and though they are the ultimate "lords" of Stormreach through the Twelve and the Coinlords, there doesn't seem to be any reason why. - The rest of the world doesn't really seem to exhist. So you have all of Eberron in it's glory, but you would never know there was anything else in the world but this single city. Nothing I can find about Areneal or Valenar Elves, Nothing about the kingdoms on Khorvair, nothing about Rendra, nothing about the world really at all, it's like Stormreach exhists in a vacume. - Most of the Dragonmarked houses didn't even make it into the game. While some houses made it in prominently, some seem to not exist at all and for no Apparently reason. Galladra should at least own inns, rather than have meat named after it, there are airships floating over the city but no mention I can find of house Lyrander. Halfelves, Orcs, and Gnomes don't even exist in DDO so the appropriate houses don't either. - No sky. They've goine to the trouble of making this great and complex sky in eberron but it doesn't exist in DDO. Just a kind of perpetual cloudly twighlight. - Warforged are in but so what? Nothing exhists really about the Last War, there is no context for the Warforged other than perceptions of "cool I get to play a robot". The summary is for me that it's a poor implementation of the setting because most of the things that make Eberron unique are either never mentioned or not in the game at all. Races, Houses, classes, history... almost none of it. Like I said, I enjoy DDO as an MMO and even as a vision of DnD on computer. Given what they were actually able to bring to the game though it makes no sense to me why they choose Eberron. They would have had a MUCH better ability to make this a vision of The Realms than Eberron. Anyway, there is my opinion.
Edymnion 01-21-06, 10:25 PM	Take a look at the screenshots (http://www.ddo.com/?page_id=71) and decide for yourself.Yeah, there are precious few WF shots, and the ones that are there all appear to have docents or some other thing that gives them armor plates. Which basically flushes the entire "What about performance?" argument right down the old pipes. Your basic warforged is still just wearing a textured body suit, and the model itself looks nothing like a WF. The only thing that lets you know its supposed to be a WF is the skin. Other than that, it would look just like any other beefy guy model, or possibly an ogre model. You can see in the screenshots all of these humans running around in wonderfully modeled and rendered armor with big shoulders and sculpted breastplates. And you see all of the WF with essentially the same little chest thing glued on, with the rest of it being 100% smooth. They can't wear armor, so you would think they would have at least made the model as interesting to look at as a human in armor is, instead of a nekkid guy that somebody airbrushed some WF plates onto. Here we go, found an image that shows the Warforged as they appear in game, when they don't have docen power ups and the like: http://ddoimages.turbine.com/files/33/57/05/16/195.jpg
Beleriphon 01-22-06, 05:41 AM	Here we go, found an image that shows the Warforged as they appear in game, when they don't have docen power ups and the like: http://ddoimages.turbine.com/files/33/57/05/16/195.jpg Again, I'd like to point out that if taking Adamantine Body or Mithril Body does in point of fact add plating to the character in a meaningful manner. As for body shape, the difference between a warforged and a human male is pretty signifigant. The warforged a good deal larger in almost all dimesions, and quite frankly looks basically like how I would expect a warforged to look. I admit that even just the standard plating could use some extra detail, but thats a minor quibble at best. And once more Beta, realease July. Long time away, lots of time to add things.
Beleriphon 01-22-06, 05:46 AM	Actually it doesn't. The only way to change the look of a WF is to get docents. They radically alter your appearance, adding armor essentially. I does now, I'm pretty sure that my warforged fight didn't come with spikes and heavy plating before I took Admantine Body.
That Blasted Somoflange 01-22-06, 08:26 AM	I does now, I'm pretty sure that my warforged fight didn't come with spikes and heavy plating before I took Admantine Body. You are correct, with the latest hotfix, they have implemented this feature. I like it. I'd also like to add that I'd like to see more quests, and give some choices on which quests to do in a chain. ie if I do this one quest, I can't do the others. That would make for a lot of replayabliity in my mind. Over all I do enjoy the game, though I, like many, do have gripes with warforged having to breath.
DanjaNinja 01-22-06, 06:38 PM	Here we go, found an image that shows the Warforged as they appear in game, when they don't have docen power ups and the like: http://ddoimages.turbine.com/files/33/57/05/16/195.jpg Yeah, I just don't have a problem with that. Maybe it's just me.
Edymnion 01-22-06, 08:15 PM	You are correct, with the latest hotfix, they have implemented this feature.Okay, thats a very good start to the problem. They didn't allow that when I was there (I'll admit, I wasn't in the beta myself, a friend was, and I'd poke at it from his account when I was over there).
Raziel_Brokodar 01-23-06, 04:37 PM	...well I had low expectations, so from what I've heard... it's met "my" expectations LOL! :P
Raziel_Brokodar 01-23-06, 04:42 PM	I've been in the beta for DDO since Sept and strickly from an Eberron perspective the game is pretty poor. I enjoy it as a DnD MMO, but I think the implementation of Eberron itself is rather poor. Preping my weekly game now so don't have the time for a full analysis of it's Eberron-ness but here are some random reasons I have for saying that: - Dragonmarked houses are kind of a backdrop. There is little in the way of interaction between them and though they are the ultimate "lords" of Stormreach through the Twelve and the Coinlords, there doesn't seem to be any reason why. - The rest of the world doesn't really seem to exhist. So you have all of Eberron in it's glory, but you would never know there was anything else in the world but this single city. Nothing I can find about Areneal or Valenar Elves, Nothing about the kingdoms on Khorvair, nothing about Rendra, nothing about the world really at all, it's like Stormreach exhists in a vacume. - Most of the Dragonmarked houses didn't even make it into the game. While some houses made it in prominently, some seem to not exist at all and for no Apparently reason. Galladra should at least own inns, rather than have meat named after it, there are airships floating over the city but no mention I can find of house Lyrander. Halfelves, Orcs, and Gnomes don't even exist in DDO so the appropriate houses don't either. - No sky. They've goine to the trouble of making this great and complex sky in eberron but it doesn't exist in DDO. Just a kind of perpetual cloudly twighlight. - Warforged are in but so what? Nothing exhists really about the Last War, there is no context for the Warforged other than perceptions of "cool I get to play a robot". The summary is for me that it's a poor implementation of the setting because most of the things that make Eberron unique are either never mentioned or not in the game at all. Races, Houses, classes, history... almost none of it. Like I said, I enjoy DDO as an MMO and even as a vision of DnD on computer. Given what they were actually able to bring to the game though it makes no sense to me why they choose Eberron. They would have had a MUCH better ability to make this a vision of The Realms than Eberron. Anyway, there is my opinion. As I expected... the game is a joke... LOL!
LordofIllusions 02-08-06, 01:09 PM	LoL! Knew it was going to suck. Well, I reserve video game playing to my consoles anyway. I actually prefer playing D&D with flesh and blood people(REAL D&D) rather than being couped up in front of a computer screen for hours, typing lines out. ~~~
Sancus 02-08-06, 04:30 PM	I still don't understand what possessed WotC to give Turbine the license for DDO, any more than I understand giving them the Lord of the Rings license. Turbine is terrible, honestly, they had one decent release which was in the lowest echelons of mmorpg popularity, then they proved themselves absolute failures with the release of AC2. Then you take this studio that utterly failed the last game it created and hand them two of the largest, most well known fantasy licenses in the world? Especially when you can reasonably argue that they've *never* made an especially good game at all? Yeah OK. If anyone really expected DDO to be great, they probably weren't paying attention to Turbine's record.. I won't deny that there are some unique and interesting things in this game, but as noted above, this is *not* Eberron. This is one city, with a very narrow and cramped set of quest locales. This isn't an MMORPG. WoW is an MMORPG, cartoony graphics or not, it covers a WORLD with two continents with many VERY different locales in graphics and feel. DDO is "Stormreach and its warehouses".
crazysamaritan 03-16-06, 10:49 PM	LoL! Knew it was going to suck. Well, I reserve video game playing to my consoles anyway. I actually prefer playing D&D with flesh and blood people(REAL D&D) rather than being couped up in front of a computer screen for hours, typing lines out. ~~~Several improvements have been made to the game during Beta (a few deprovements, I'll admit) especially in the area of graphics. I, personally, am enjoying the game very much. I am a part of a very good (and large) guild - www.oldtimersguild.com. They've included an in-game voicechat (so rogues can shout, "TRAP!" without typing it out) restrictions on party size (no 40-100 member quests, max is usually 6, 12 for raids) an announcement of a group of 15 modules (more quests) which include a Red Dragon as a boss, with a famous DnD person to DM it. Some of the negatives that made it past Beta Sneaking and Invisibility end more often than they should Not a jogging simulator No bonus spells for high casting stat Each character is middle-aged and each race are people from the same family The recommended RAM is 1Gig. The grahics on very high are so phenominal it takes up a lot of processing. Only 5 characters per server (about 14 servers) and so few people have gotten to 10th level Some of the quests are still bugged and undergoing revisions.
LordofIllusions 03-20-06, 02:52 PM	Several improvements have been made to the game during Beta (a few deprovements, I'll admit) especially in the area of graphics. I, personally, am enjoying the game very much. I am a part of a very good (and large) guild - www.oldtimersguild.com. They've included an in-game voicechat (so rogues can shout, "TRAP!" without typing it out) restrictions on party size (no 40-100 member quests, max is usually 6, 12 for raids) an announcement of a group of 15 modules (more quests) which include a Red Dragon as a boss, with a famous DnD person to DM it. Some of the negatives that made it past Beta Sneaking and Invisibility end more often than they should Not a jogging simulator No bonus spells for high casting stat Each character is middle-aged and each race are people from the same family The recommended RAM is 1Gig. The grahics on very high are so phenominal it takes up a lot of processing. Only 5 characters per server (about 14 servers) and so few people have gotten to 10th level Some of the quests are still bugged and undergoing revisions. Thanks for the information, believe me I appreciate you attempting to explain the game, Samaritan. Thanks again. Now, Don't take this the wrong way but I actually prefer to stay away from MMORPGs. The way I see it nothing, and I mean nothing, can beat tabletop so that's where my interest lies when it comes to D&D when it comes to RPGs. I do play video games, just not online MMORPGs which I think the market has been saturated with too much already. ~~~
igotsmeakabob!! 03-20-06, 05:42 PM	Oh yes, there are definitely WAY too many MMORPGs. They were great when the only 2 were EQ and UO, they were filled with people. Now there are so many mmorpgs you get fewer people in each... but thats beside the point. Which I do not currently know. Away!
aelryinth 03-20-06, 09:51 PM	Turbine got the contract because it does two things better then any other MMORPG company...cater to the single player and provide monthly updates of new content. AC still has a hardcore fan base because it caters to the single player. If you want to log in and solo hunt, there's no better game on the market. If you want to group hunt, you can do that too. Monthly updates mean that if you quit and come back a year later, the game has changed so radically that even 'uber' people when they left tend to have monstrous amounts of catching up to do. So there's an incentive to stay to see what the 'new' stuff is. Both those things keep people coming back, which provides revenue. If you want a pretty game with lots of people, EQ and UO are getting robbed blind by WoW. But at some point, WoW is going to get robbed by a prettier newer game, too. So, it all works out in the end. ==Aelryinth
Always-Late 03-21-06, 07:25 PM	Concerning Warforged and breathing: I think it's because they don't want people exploring the bottom of the sea.
crazysamaritan 03-22-06, 07:33 PM	Concerning Warforged and breathing: I think it's because they don't want people exploring the bottom of the sea.Then why include underwater action items? ;)
Jaffinator 03-23-06, 12:57 PM	DDO is DnD Online. Nothing more. While there is no type of DM Console to create your own quests, you have to remember a few things. As far as customizability of characters, look at SWG. They let you change your body model. Bad idea. The game gets 22 fps max on high settings on a custom rig I build with an X2 3800, 7900GTX (yes 79, not 78), and 2gb of memory. That's rediculous. Using similar models helps reduce lag. Besides, there are no more customization options in WoW. More content will come out. WILL. Not should, not can, but WILL. The level cap WILL be raised. WILL. I'll repost a review and comparison of DDO vs. WoW later. :D
blackbic 03-23-06, 03:36 PM	<EDIT> Removed due to miscommunication.
Sancus 03-23-06, 03:55 PM	But this is just the beta; I'll check it out in July because no one is stupid enough to release a product with so many flaws, with or without Turbine's horrible track record. ... I'm guessing you're being sarcastic because DDO has been out for a month :P
blackbic 03-23-06, 04:20 PM	... I'm guessing you're being sarcastic because DDO has been out for a month :P I was sure I saw it in Walmart last night, but I was reading this thread (in it's entirety) today, and some one else said it wasn't out til July. My bad. :rolleyes: blackbic
igotsmeakabob!! 03-23-06, 09:40 PM	As far as customizability of characters, look at SWG. They let you change your body model. Bad idea. The game gets 22 fps max on high settings on a custom rig I build with an X2 3800, 7900GTX (yes 79, not 78), and 2gb of memory. That's rediculous. Using similar models helps reduce lag. Besides, there are no more customization options in WoW. ... Wow. I'm sorry. But if I got 60 FPS on SW: galaxies with a geforce fx 5900, a gig of ram and an amd athlon xp 3000, then theres something wrong with your system or mine is not built with the parts i put in there.
Jaffee 03-24-06, 07:25 AM	Negative. This is on any system I've tried it on, including an Athlon 64 X2 3800+, 7800GT OC'ed, and a gig of ram. The game is flawed because of the model editing system, period, end of story.