| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Naicin03-02-05, 03:46 PM | I am still not sure if I should chose Eberron or Dragonalnce. I like how Eberron is like the cool action movies, and I really like how Dragonlance is original D&D with the knight prestige classes and such. |
| PsionicRanger03-02-05, 03:51 PM | I would choose Eberron over Dragonlance for a few reasons: Dragonlance is constricting. Dragonlance doesn't offer as many of the choices that Eberron does. Example: The way magic works for Wizards...the whole robe thing is just not for me. Dragonlance is set...There are several iconic heroes in Dragonlance. This can be a blessing and a curse. The party will want to meet the heroes...Characters like Caramon and Raistlin are great, but the focus should be on the party...In Eberron, it can be. Wizards of the Coast is coming out with a lot more material for Eberron than Dragonlance...You will have a lot more resources to pull from that will be more current than you will for Dragonlance. Just some things to keep in mind... |
| Draco Strang03-02-05, 03:53 PM | I'd have to say Eberron over DL. Heck...if I had my choice, Forgotten Realms all the way...:) Actually, Eberron isn't too bad. It's better than DL for a lot of reasons. One is that WOTC isn't even producing DL material. It's all 3rd party. The novels are fine, but the 3.5 edition campaign setting leaves a lot to be desired. |
| LordofIllusions03-02-05, 03:55 PM | I would choose Eberron over Dragonlance for a few reasons: Dragonlance is constricting. Dragonlance doesn't offer as many of the choices that Eberron does. Example: The way magic works for Wizards...the whole robe thing is just not for me. Dragonlance is set...There are several iconic heroes in Dragonlance. This can be a blessing and a curse. The party will want to meet the heroes...Characters like Caramon and Raistlin are great, but the focus should be on the party...In Eberron, it can be. Wizards of the Coast is coming out with a lot more material for Eberron than Dragonlance...You will have a lot more resources to pull from that will be more current than you will for Dragonlance. Just some things to keep in mind... Agreed. DragonLance is VERY constricting, and the role playing in the new DL products is not really up to par. Also, DL tends to focus on world-changing events too much. There are no time for small storylines which a DM can use to intoduce his/her characters into the world. Also, the NPCs in DL are waaay too important, as in who can top the Heroes of the Lance ? ~~~ |
| Taurren03-02-05, 05:19 PM | I've found DL to be a great place for adventuring. The scope and style of the setting is very EPIC and provides great hooks for players to become true heroes that vanquish evil and save the world. If epic themed storylines are your favorite way to play, then DL is the game for you. Lower lv adventures are very easily placed in the setting, but do require just a little ore work by the GM at least IMHO. Now having said that, I had a chance to start a new game in either setting and chose Eberron. Its a mostly unique setting that is still in its early stages of development. Created with a twist to many of the standard "paradigms", it allows the GM to be a little more creative (also requiring a little extra work) and gives the players room and encouragement to really think outside the iconic classes. I really believe that both settings are great, but I think Eberron is the better setting right now. |
| Altaris03-02-05, 06:08 PM | I really believe that both settings are great, but I think Eberron is the better setting right now. I was obsessed with DL, right up until I graduated high school and began real life. ;) I still enjoy reading the old stuff, but as a setting? I have only played in DL once or twice, and it was the only campaign option at the time. I strongly believe that the DL setting is better for novels than it is for gaming. Eberron? A truely wonderful campain setting that has really renewed DnD for me and my friends. I love this setting! |
| Arcane Guyver03-02-05, 06:41 PM | I'd really love to get into Dragonlance. It looks like it has a very nice, classic D&D feel to it. There is an awful lot of source material out there, as opposed to.... ...Eberron, which takes many D&D staples and turns them on their head. Sweet setting, tons of fun...but I'm betting there are other DMs out there like that are starving for information (Wizards cutting back Dragonshards to 2/month doesn't help AT ALL). |
| Alac Luin03-02-05, 07:24 PM | advantages of Eberron. No Kender No Draconians No Kender No Mt Nevermind No Kender Eberron has a wider selections of area to operate in with a wider selection of play styles , at least in my oppinion. Oh, did I mention that Eberron has no Kenders? |
| iltharanos03-02-05, 07:57 PM | I would choose Eberron over Dragonlance for a few reasons: Dragonlance is set...There are several iconic heroes in Dragonlance. This can be a blessing and a curse. The party will want to meet the heroes...Characters like Caramon and Raistlin are great, but the focus should be on the party...In Eberron, it can be. Just some things to keep in mind... You do realize that these iconic heroes in Dragonlance are all dead, right? In-game time they've been dead for decades, so good luck on PC's trying to meet these iconic heroes. |
| Naicin03-02-05, 08:21 PM | but in Eberron i feel blaaa, it dosent seem to have its own coolness and own uniqueness and Dragonlance isnt really like go around on adventures its more like you have to do these quest that will really effect the world no killing monster just for gp and items, ya know? |
| DanjaNinja03-02-05, 10:00 PM | but in Eberron i feel blaaa, it dosent seem to have its own coolness and own uniqueness and Dragonlance isnt really like go around on adventures its more like you have to do these quest that will really effect the world no killing monster just for gp and items, ya know? I kind of felt the same way, but then I found myself at my FLGS with a choice between Eberron or another book. I bought Eberron on a whim, not expecting to be too impressed. Boy was I surprised. Seriously. It's more awesome than it appears. |
| Sucros03-02-05, 10:10 PM | 100% of the eberron novels have kicked ass so far, as have 100% of the sourcebooks. Dragonlance is somewhere around 25% kickassedness IMO. |
| Flame_Drake03-02-05, 10:19 PM | but in Eberron i feel blaaa, it dosent seem to have its own coolness and own uniqueness and Dragonlance isnt really like go around on adventures its more like you have to do these quest that will really effect the world no killing monster just for gp and items, ya know? Actually, both settings have the quest factor, its just more apperant at first glance in DL. As for uniqueness, Ebberon puts the new sipn on all of the well known race while keeping their identities intact. Not many settings have a goblin history that even come close to Eberron's. 100% of the eberron novels have kicked ass so far, as have 100% of the sourcebooks. To take the side of the traveller, we can't make a valid judgement based on novels. There are two Eberron novels. There are about 200 DL novels. ;) I'd still say Eberron Drake |
| PoeticJustice03-02-05, 11:00 PM | Don't forget that there's no "Ask Margaret Weiss" thread on the boards (she had a hand in DL, right?) If you want to go old-school, go DL, but Eberon is a pretty exciting change of place. Going into the wilds REALLY feels like a camping trip because stuff isn't available that's readily available elsewhere. It's kinda of nice to rough it, once in a while, but after a while everyone just can't wait to get back to Sharn... |
| depolarization03-02-05, 11:59 PM | Oddly enough, I ran a Dragonlance game before the Eberron. In retrospect, Dragonlance's themes are stale by now and rather static. The players know many of my hooks and they criticize me for my revisions of the DL history. Basically, it was as a veteran fantasy buff put me, the greatest adventures have been done. Their memory taints the games. <did i run out of words for stale?> But besides this reiteration of other's complaints, DL was about strong, epic characters with heroic deeds to do. They were archtypical and though fun to read through they really lacked a depth to their character beyond personality quirks. Also the various naitons of Ansalon are rather well defined and play by rules. Their figureheads and people's feel stiff and staid. I kept focussing on an ogre nation uprising in the swamps to the west of Neraka and the resurgence of cults of Takhisis plaguing once again the borders of Solamnia...yet these factions do not really make my players want to care. So what would I do? make an adversary? How about a kender assassin? Grr...just feels stale. <begin crux of post> Well, Eberron kicks ass for one thing it did very very well. It made a butt-load of synergistic and interesting factions! Each is usable throughout the continent of Khorvaire. Never had I so much fun thinking of intrigues and never had I so much fun in creating adversaries with so much tangible tension after a great nationalistic and idealogical war. Besides these great nations and dragon marked houses are other secret societies that are not so over developed that their course in time is known and allows me the creativity and freedom to blow the doors wide open of everyone's imagination...basically revert to my old staple...a Lovecraftian mind-screw coupled with a take on the bloodwar, throw in some lycanthropes and the illuminati (read: Aurum) are playing you for fools. So who can you turn to? <tangent> And besides which...where else will somebody come up with a Giant-Were-Tyranosaur...you know at first I thought it was goofy...but Eberron makes it work! By Dol Dorn it works! You can take everyone's word and make wierd faces at our goblin ninjas, super zombies, unspeakable tentacled horrors, and monster nations that would just fall flat in other settings, but Eberron makes it fit very well, by making you think about consequences, emotional ties, and power struggles with the moral highground muddied and marred by the sins of the father. <Examples of faction use and scale> ...Wheels within wheels, and the "twelve ceasers" vie for the old glory of Galifar (rome?)...or scale it down to where a faction's experiment's getting unruly and escapes, terrorizing the country-side. But as you're about to subdue this creature, turns out it has desires, goals and feelings much like Frakenstein's monster, much like YOU the player...themes galore and interpretations abound...and we haven't even touched the excellent cosmological and metaphysical implications of the planes. <well factions are cool, but it's really connecting with desires and goals> Make Eberron your own! Whereas DL is Weis n' Hickman's immutable intellectual property and world. Eberron's about as moldable and remoldable as plastilina and you can make it as complex and intrigue ridden, as dark and emotional, or as hack n' slash and chock full of slapstick comedy gags as you want..."Eberron's made out of PEOPLE!" Alex |
| Nasheen03-03-05, 08:29 AM | I love both settings veru much, but if you want a game that feels more like the classic d&d, stick to dragonlance, but if you prefer the pulp noir style, stick to eberron. If you asked the same question at the board in the www.dragonlance.com, you would receive the same opinions abot how dragonlance is a better setting than eberron, as opposed to the how eberron is a better setting than dragonlance that you receive in this thread. In the end, is just a matter of taste. I love both, so stick to the one that you feel that you would like more. |
| Siberys03-03-05, 09:48 AM | You have set yourself up with quite a predicament. Eberron is my favorite CS, but I like dragonlance is cool, too. Think of it on a ten-point scale: Eberron: 10 DL:9.99999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999....You get the point. Right now, I've got about 4 eberron campaigns going. If I were playing, I'd go with DL. but, again, that's because I'm already playing a ton of Eberron. I don't care if it's not published by WotC. I'd buy every v3.5 DL book if I had the money (I'm currently saving all my money for Eberron, though... :) ). And why does everyone hate Kender? I LOVE Kender!!! |
| RamblingScribe03-03-05, 09:59 AM | I find it funny how everyone calls Dragonlance 'Classc D&D'. I must be old or something, but I remember when DL1 came out and it was an adventure in this funky new setting with new monsters and new rules about clerics and we had to throw out all of our preconceptions about D&D. Ah good times. I actually played the original series as far as DL12 and had a blast. Of course, we had to play the characters that came with the game, and then when I started reading the novels it was weird, because all of the characters were kind of different. But I've never looked at any of the novels past the first trilogy or played in any Dragonlance game beyond the first modules. I recommend Eberon because it's this funky new setting with new monsters and funky new rules about clerics and you have to throw out all of your preconceptions about D&D! Craig Shackleton, The Rambling Scribe |
| Hayabusa03-03-05, 10:03 AM | advantages of Eberron. No Kender No Draconians No Kender No Mt Nevermind No Kender Eberron has a wider selections of area to operate in with a wider selection of play styles , at least in my oppinion. Oh, did I mention that Eberron has no Kenders? I'd call those major disadvantages... I'd say go with Dragonlance. If you don't want the PCs to be outshined by the Heroes Of The Lance or Mina and company, don't play in those eras. Personally, I prefer Dragonlance, but go with what you want. |
| Alac Luin03-03-05, 11:17 AM | I'd call those major disadvantages... Kender - a race that every member has the same personality, a kleptomaniac pre teen with ADHD, only now, they can become their own people, but then they are called infected. Draconians – Your enemies now act like they come from a video game, they burst, turn to pools of acid, or crumble to dust so their body doesn’t litter the screen, er dungeon floor. Mt Nevermind - A volcano inhabited by inept gnomish inventers, since they rarely get anything to work, how is it still standing after they hollowed it out for rooms and such? Not many support beams, and they use a catapult to get from level to level. No thanks, gibe me Eberron or give me, um… Lets just say Eberron doesn’t have near as many silly elements. |
| Altaris03-03-05, 11:31 AM | Kender - a race that every member has the same personality, a kleptomaniac pre teen with ADHD, only now, they can become their own people, but then they are called infected. Draconians – Your enemies now act like they come from a video game, they burst, turn to pools of acid, or crumble to dust so their body doesn’t litter the screen, er dungeon floor. Mt Nevermind - A volcano inhabited by inept gnomish inventers, since they rarely get anything to work, how is it still standing after they hollowed it out for rooms and such? Not many support beams, and they use a catapult to get from level to level. No thanks, gibe me Eberron or give me, um… Lets just say Eberron doesn’t have near as many silly elements. And best of all, Eberron doesn't have any Kender. |
| Siberys03-03-05, 12:50 PM | And best of all, Eberron doesn't have any Kender. <rant> WHY IN SHAVARATH DOES EVERYONE HATE KENDER!!!!!!! AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! :rant: </rant> p.s. I do NOT use kender in eberron. For the same reason there are no changelings, or 'forged, or Daelkyr, etc. in my DL campaigns. |
| Alac Luin03-03-05, 01:06 PM | That’s more of an exclamation or tantrum then a rant. The entire race has a pre set personality, more so then any other race. Dwarves are dower, but they can greedy, stoic, reckless, etc… Kender have this pre set way of thinking. Sure it’s cute to read about them, but I wouldn’t want to play in a world like that. DM “You walk into the store, you notice a sign that reads ‘No Kender’…” PC leader “OK, Raff, you stay out here and watch Flint.” PC Raff “Great, babysitting duty. Agien.” PC Flint “Ohh… shiny” Flint goes wandering off to handle something, being chased by Raff. They even figured out that Kender were annoying, so they made it possible to play one that wasn’t so annoying, but your considered sick (infected Kender). |
| RamblingScribe03-03-05, 01:11 PM | They even figured out that Kender were annoying, so they made it possible to play one that wasn’t so annoying, but your considered sick (infected Kender). Yes they knew kender were annoying when they made them. I don't know if this was dropped later, but originally kender had a 'taunt' racial ability. Basically they could annoy you to the point that you flew into a rage and tried to kill them. I think that they were modelled after little brothers. Craig Shackleton, The Rambling Scribe |
| Cairn Stone03-03-05, 01:16 PM | [QUOTE=Naicin]but in Eberron i feel blaaa, it dosent seem to have its own coolness and own uniqueness QUOTE] I'm not sure I follow you here. I imagine it was Eberron's vast uniqueness that garnered it the win in the setting search contest. My suggestion; go with Eberron. It is the most unique and enjoyable setting I have ever run or played in. |
| Alac Luin03-03-05, 01:20 PM | Yes they knew kender were annoying when they made them. I don't know if this was dropped later, but originally kender had a 'taunt' racial ability. Basically they could annoy you to the point that you flew into a rage and tried to kill them. In general, they still have the 'Taunt' ability, but after Krynn was draged into the Abyss, some Kender became infected, they loose the 'taunt' ability I believe and are more like halflings. You have the choice on which type of kender you would like to play. |
| LordofIllusions03-03-05, 02:10 PM | I used to run a DL campaign, now it is on hiatus due to several reasons: 1. DL is way too epic. An epic adventure every now and then is ok, but every single time you turn your head the world is being devastated, or a war is starting. 2. DL 3.5 products LOOK good, but(yes there is a "but"), the quality of some of the products(as in role playing possibilities) is downright pitiful. 3. DL products are always late. The company releasing them does not stick to its schedule. 4. Everything is done for the good of so and so, it feels like everyone is a watered down paladin in DL. Everyone is either good, or evil, for no apparent reason. Many of the villains are corny and generic. I don't feel like there is any real depth at times. Now I like DL, its just that I feel Eberron offers more to the role playing crowd, and consumers as a whole. ~~~ |
| Altaris03-03-05, 03:25 PM | Ahem... And best of all, Eberron doesn't have any Kender. :D Kender are not just annoying, they are disruptive, infuriating and flat out not necessary. I LOVED reading about Tas and the rest. I absolutely DESPISED playing in a game with Kender. |
| Naicin03-03-05, 03:31 PM | what i decided to do was remove kender and put in there place trolls, anyway in eberron i dont feel like it is medival and that there are knights and i really love the knights from dragonlance and i have even started to create my own based off those classes for dragonlance. |
| Siran Dunmorgan03-03-05, 03:33 PM | [QUOTE] I'm not sure I follow you here. I imagine it was Eberron's vast uniqueness that garnered it the win in the setting search contest. My suggestion; go with Eberron. It is the most unique and enjoyable setting I have ever run or played in. I can't agree with you there, Cairn Stone! The most unique and enjoyable setting I've ever run or played in was one of my own... which—alas!—did not win the setting search contest. :) DragonLance also started out with a great deal of promise, and mostly kept it: if you stay with Margaret Weis' original tone, and don't allow your players to indulge in too much silliness, it works remarkably well.[1] It's just that for a Dungeons & Dragons setting, my players felt—and, at the time, I agreed with them—that I could do better, and did, for many years. Now, of the TSR/Wizards of the Coast published settings, Eberron is far the best to date. To a certain extent, that's because it hasn't been around as long as the Forgotten Realms: a lot of FR seems silly nowadays because it's undergone a long, long, period of accretion: the same thing may happen to Eberron fifteen years down the road.[2] But for now, it's fresh, it's exciting, it takes a new look at the old clichés and turns them on their heads. There are bits and pieces of the setting that set the mind to wandering down interesting paths.[3] We know that it works as a stable setting in our minds because we frequently argue over the way things are in the Eberron we collectively explore: the thread where we debate the reasonableness of the "Silver Flame Paladin Werebear Vassal of Bahamut" is an example of this. That debate would have been unlikely in a Forgotten Realms setting, and would have been greeted with astonishment in Greyhawk: doesn't everyone in Greyhawk take outlandish combinations of templates and prestige classes? The older Dungeons & Dragons campaign settings are clearly either the work of a committee (Forgotten Realms), of an inspired Child of the Seventies (Greyhawk), or are intended to support only a limited range of campaign types (DragonLance). Eberron, owing to the participation of Keith Baker, is more likely to turn out in the fashion of Linux: a number of people—primarily Wizards of the Coast employees, but perhaps others—will participate, but only one or two will make the decision about whether or how a particular element accords with the continuity of the Eberron setting. That model for growth will be its strength. —Siran Dunmorgan [1] House Rule #1: No Player-character Kender! They make good—sometimes even magnificent—NPCs, but woe to the player who voluntarily brings Kender to the table! [3] Forgotten Realms was considered excellent at the time that it was first published. Most of the problems with it are a result of things being tacked on to it over time, without someone making sure that they all "fit." [3] For example, the throwaway statement about the settlement of humans in the Shadow Marches having come from the west fleeing the Inspired in Sarlona suggests that Shadow Marches humans may have noticeably different cultural roots from the rest of Khorvaire, and that the Marches have a higher percentage of Kalashtar than elsewhere. Indeed, the spiritual nature of Orcish culture makes it not unlikely that there are a few Orc psions walking the the Path of Light. |
| Naicin03-03-05, 03:38 PM | how would i be able to try and bring the feel of eberron to dragonlance a bit? Or the dragonlance feel to eberron? |
| Altaris03-03-05, 03:53 PM | how would i be able to try and bring the feel of eberron to dragonlance a bit? Or the dragonlance feel to eberron? I don't think that is necessary. You have plenty of militaristic organizations within Eberron that could very easily suit the Knights you wish to include. Eberron has many potential plots of Epic play, anything you could do in DL can be done in Eberron. And it will be done better, with more flair, flash and fluff than in DL. DL = stale, staid, and stumped; done, redone, and overdone. Eberron offers a whole new world to explore. When I first heard about the setting, I was a disbeliever. I did not want to even read something that was created by a fan, rather than an official game designer. A buddy of mine bought the book against our suggestions, and it was the best purchase he made. He ran us through the Forgotten Forge, and I must tell you, it was some of the most fun I've had playing DnD. After reading the ECS myself, I went out and purchased it the next day. I read through my own copy, and decided that HAD to run an Eberron game. So I told my players, "Sorry guys, but Shadowrun is caput. We start my new Eberron game in two weeks. Start chargen." And you know what? They were ecstatic! We've been playing it now every two weeks since then, and we love it. We've even considered kayboshing one of our other games so we can play Eberron EVERY week. The fact is that DL and FR were novels and settings of OTHER peoples campaigns. Eberron is a setting for YOUR campaign. Make it your own. |
| Siran Dunmorgan03-03-05, 03:59 PM | Yes, both ways. DragonLance is all about world-threatening epic adventures: everyone has a rôle to play in defeating the threat to the world, from the lowest gully dwarf to the highest quasi-god: that feeling can easily sweep Eberron simply by declaring a world-threatening event. Xoriat entering a coterminous phase would certainly do that, for example. You can play the various orders—the Citadel, the Templars of the Silver Flame, and others—as paragons of Chivalry opposing the Order of the Emerald Claw or the Dreaming Dark. Make it about a clash of epic causes that wear their alignments on their sleeves, and you'll have replicated a lot of the feel of DragonLance. Going the other way, you can tone everything down in the DragonLance setting by making it less about causes and more about personalities and personal agendas: remove the alignment restrictions so that not all of the various orders and organizations are run by people whose alignment matches the supposed alignment of the organization. Present villains who tend to work alone, or with a small, select group of followers, instead of continent-spanning armies. And for Paladine's sake, allow kender to have the whole range of alignments! That should bring a lot of the Eberron feel to DragonLance, no? —Siran Dunmorgan |
| depolarization03-03-05, 08:01 PM | what i decided to do was remove kender and put in there place trolls, anyway in eberron i dont feel like it is medival and that there are knights and i really love the knights from dragonlance and i have even started to create my own based off those classes for dragonlance. Just to touch on some things here about knights...because I too love the knights! Each kingdom of Khorvaire of the old Galifarian empire has Knights. You could basically model the Aundarian knights after the solamnic traditions, the Karrnations after the Knights of Takhisis, the Brelish after the Brotherhood of Steel, the Thrane after the Purple Dragon Knights etc...These twinings aren't set in stone and passed down by GOD though! I'm sure even some particularly honor-bound goblins can be turned into knights (or samurai if you prefer). Just work around some setting specific details and you have knights! What the deal is here, is that you can make the setting as asian, or as european as you want...or you can make it as unique as you want and mutate elements into something fun and compelling. After all, I let a gnome from a noble house be a druid, because the druid's abilities and ties to nature fit the cult that the player described to me story-wise. Though he's still focussed on economy and promoting things, he's into wierd shamanic stuff, kinda like the Golden Circle in the Victorian era sucking in aristocracy. Ok...he's not a planeteer; but he's got a raven on his shoulder that acts as a spririt guide and a mirror into his personal greed. Khovarian kingdoms particularly beg for knights. These are shining officers of the calvery that led men to war and inspired their courage with their leadership. Eberron's all about that...and what's more? Now that the war is over, what do knights do? Interesting quandaries can arise as retired knights go off and sell their sword, crusade against sleeping evils, root out strife, or even guard a caravan (how droll)! Are they determined to be the king's guard now? To be the colorguard when they pay calls to foreign lands? Hell calvery's so important in Eberron anyway because the distance between important things is about 10x that in Ansalon. Talenta Plain is about 2000 miles across, which is about the size of Ansalon E to W... I love knights, and I love my destriers, and I love my Magebred destrier's looking like fiersome Friesians with flowing manes and chrome-gleaming barding...just make em fly the flag of Aundair instead of Solamnia. But what about Gryphon riders? Dragon knights? Etc...? Yup, you can do it! The dragon knights are little tough, but hey! Get both settings if you've got the cash to spare. The core book of DL has great rules on dragons, flight, breath weapons and how to bond with your dragon mounts. <potential faction spoiler...highlight it with reckless abandon you crazy kids!> Hell, I'm sure the "Chamber" has some human dealings with the truly special to further their goals. In fact I wouldn't put it past them to make some sort of eldritch artifact to produce draconians or dragonspawn if you insist . Eberron's really like coming up with your own campaign setting...probably because it's new and not over-developed. Look what 10 years did to white-wolf...is that a dirty word here? I can't run a chronicle without people correcting me and referencing some book where a powerful vamp gets fried by an orbital weapons platform (what the hell, personal horror my *~~!). Or look what 20 years did to FR? Dalelands? Sword Coast? Wait, this geography looks like a quilt with no verisimilitude and immense intra region conflict...but...why would the Zhentil attack the sword coast because Khelben's gonna own them? Oh yeah, because their Drow masters hate Drizzt and want his cute punk fashion & sexy panther for their own...Bah! The forgotten empires are what made me excited about FR, like the one in that desert with the vanishing cyclopean citadel like in the movie "Krull" with mysterious peoples, undefined and awaiting my players to uncover their plots. That Tolkeinian detail and length of history makes it great. And if you want that...look no further than 50,000 years of planar war, rise and fall of empires and the maintenance of races with desires, goals, plots. Though I will hand it to FR and DL that they made pantheon's fun again, especially FR. Ok, I've said my glowing endorsement again for this thread. But the ideas just flow, worse than Faulkner or Thompson. That's saying something for Eberron... Now I must go tempt my players with the offer of power from a certain Xoriat Native. Alex |
| Kalanth03-04-05, 03:40 AM | I skimmed through all of this, and felt I needed to share my feelings. Dragonlance has always been, and always will be, my favorite setting. It has depth, character and history. There is much in the way of Mythos and it can be intimidating to those that do not know the world or at least some of the history of the world. Dragonlance itself has undergone a major change (once again) with the end of the War of Souls and I honestly believe that it is in a position that (if all future novels are ignored) can be played without the concern for the "epic all the time" adventure. I do feel that DL of old has cursed me in that all my campaigns turn out to be epic and I love the epic games. Dragonlance is a world that provides a laundry list of possibilities as long as you play only in the current timeframe, and strangles you until you pass out if you attempt any other era. Eberron, well, that is a breath of fresh air into a market gone stale with the same old same old. Forgotten Realms has (and always been, IMHO) a clunky, overblown, and heavily taxed world. Anyworld that allows anything and everything at any time is to much. They all need restricitions. Eberron allows an awful lot, but not to much, and is very playable. Presently, in the campaign I am playing in, we have embraced the new races (we have two warforged, one changeling and a Kalashteir <sp, its late :P> along with my half-elf), we have enjoyed the conflicts that occur with the military groups (Lord of Blades, Emerald Claw, etc.) and have taken to love the fact that we are able to be the focal point of the story. Our DM has made a point of that last bit, and has gone out of his way to make the characters the focus (downtime, backstory, character specific plot lines, etc.) and made the point that the story itself is in the background. The story leads us to the next chapter, but we are why you would be ready the book (if that makes sense) and that is something that Eberron has allowed us to have and to feel. However, you ask me which I would pick to play and to run. . .Its a toss up between my homebrew world and Dragonlance, I would not even consider running an Eberron game. I will play on the world again, but have no interest in running a campaign on it, ever. |
| magicmarker1303-04-05, 07:51 AM | Eberron, IMO |
| Raster03-04-05, 11:08 AM | Everyone who hates Kender has never seen one played right. A proper Kender should only get his party into trouble half as often as he get's them out of it. I saved my party's lives twice in the one session of DL I played. I love Kender :D But while I do enjoy the DL novels, it's Eberron for me, all the way. I like lots of the themes of Dragonlance, but after looking at Eberron, some DL stuff make me wince. The biggest thing has got to be the different take on gods. After Eberron's "you can't be sure if the gods are there or not" Dragonlance's highly active deities look like big bunglers. There's nothing wrong with active deities as long as they stay mysterious, acting for their own purposes, and beyond the understanding of mortals. But in DL there's no reason the mortals shouldn't be able to outwit the gods. They're all childish and irresponsible. How many times did reorx gamble away the graygem? In Eberron, any acts of divine intervention are going to be the kind of thing where the cleric says "See? The god's are with us!", the artificer says "There are no gods. There's probably a scientific explanation.", and the fighter says "Stop arguing, it was just chance that things worked out that way." and they all get to believe that they're right. The other major fault I find with Dragonlance is the amount of world shattering disasters that they go through. It's like they're always trying fo the next big thing. "Hey guys, I dropped a mountain on the cultural center of Ansalon and took away clerical magic. Top that." "I set Chaos loose on the world. Ha!" There is such a thing as overdoing it. And to top off, there are minor irritations like the gnomes. I'm not really a gnome person myself, I generally play humans and halflings, but I think every race deserves a modicum of respect. And the DL gnomes didn't get it. They were a race that could only invent, and nothing any of them invented ever worked right. How pointless is that? The gnomes in Dragonlance were only good for comic relief (did anyone other than me hate the way Gimli got relegated to comic relief in the LotR movies?). At least Kender had an impact on the world. Looking at Dragonlance Gnomes compared to Eberron Gnomes, it's really hard for me to take Dragonlance seriously as a campaign setting. It will hold a place in my heart for it's stories and Kender, but I say "Eberron all the way!" |
| Siberys03-04-05, 12:02 PM | There were certain gnomes - like Gnimsh and Gnimish - whose inventions ALWAYS worked. They were, however, shunned as "insane". However, I quite agree that I like the Eberron gnomes better. Same as with the CSs as a whole: Eberron 10/10, DL 9.99999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999/10. |
| Alac Luin03-04-05, 02:28 PM | ... Forgotten Realms has (and always been, IMHO) a clunky, overblown, and heavily taxed world. Anyworld that allows anything and everything at any time is to much. They all need restricitions... I guess this is from a personal stand point, but I hear (read posts, etc..) people complaining that the realms has to many restrictions or looking for ways to Metagame around them. Sure compared to DL, it has fewer. But when 70% of the PrCs have Lawful something as a pre-req, and 90% require you to be part of an organization it really takes the feel of personal choice away from you. Sure restrictions till you are choked by them. The ONE good thing I saw in the DLCS was the Mystic Base class. Since I normally run a realms game, due to one of the restrictions of the realms, make the class unusable. (so much for “anything and everything” I guess). Then again, I could play a mystic in Eberron!!!! |
| Naicin03-04-05, 02:45 PM | i am going to switch between the 2 and after a while see which one me and my group really like the best. |
| Alac Luin03-04-05, 02:54 PM | :w00t: We can all congratulate ourselves!!!:cheer: We confused Naicin and in the end were of absolutely no help!!!!:clap: :confused: :bounce: :dancin: |
| DanjaNinja03-04-05, 04:12 PM | :w00t: We can all congratulate ourselves!!!:cheer: We confused Naicin and in the end were of absolutely no help!!!!:clap: :confused: :bounce: :dancin:I think he had his mind set even before he asked us. |
| Altaris03-04-05, 04:14 PM | And best of all, Eberron doesn't have any Kender. Just to reitirate. (sp?) |
| Alac Luin03-04-05, 04:17 PM | I think he had his mind set even before he asked us. Party pooper :pbbbtt: EDIT: :eek: I'm haveing to much fun with the smileys ;) |
| Naicin03-04-05, 05:13 PM | lol |
| Just another user03-04-05, 08:24 PM | Kender - a race that every member has the same personality, a kleptomaniac pre teen with ADHD, only now, they can become their own people, but then they are called infected. Draconians – Your enemies now act like they come from a video game, they burst, turn to pools of acid, or crumble to dust so their body doesn’t litter the screen, er dungeon floor. Mt Nevermind - A volcano inhabited by inept gnomish inventers, since they rarely get anything to work, how is it still standing after they hollowed it out for rooms and such? Not many support beams, and they use a catapult to get from level to level. No thanks, gibe me Eberron or give me, um… Lets just say Eberron doesn’t have near as many silly elements. Actually it would be intersting to see how these things would be influenced by Eberron characteristics, for example Kender, in Eberron with its blurred alignements you could have villains kender, thinks to a kender cultist of the dragon below, for exampe, or had a dark twist to the race and that someone suspect that Xoriat have influenced their origin, maybe the first kender were goblin infected by Xoriat during the war between xoriat and the dakhani Empire. Draconians: I don't know, they culd be the elite guards of Argonessen's dragons, or some cult of the dragon below put their hand on some dragon eggs and used a ritual to create these draconic abominations. Mt. nevermind is the super secret research center of house Sivis, based on the true tested method that the best way to hide something is to put it in plain sight, all the silliness the botched experiments, the incidents, the catapults, etc are just a cover to foil foreign spy(even if on Eberron it would not be so extremely silly like on Krynn) is in those laboratories that were developed the planar binding metods used for the airships and all the magic items used by house sivis like the stones of sending, there use magical method so advanced that cannith house would die to have, like many of their spies did, even if officially this only happened in elevator-catapult incidents. ;) |
| weasel fierce03-05-05, 04:08 PM | Why choose between two, when you can play both ? |
| Naicin03-05-05, 04:24 PM | thats what im going to do DM and play in both |