Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Benicus 04-10-07, 02:05 AM	First thing up front; I love Eberron. That being said I need to ask you people what you think of my idea. From what I've seen in Eberron there is little or no chance of having a campaign go from 1st-20th level. Most of the BBEG's are around 10th (heck the Lord of Blades is 12th...) so what I think is that Eberron is not made for going to 20th. That also being said, I like going to 20th level. Anyone have any epic campaign ideas?
Ricohard_Draconis 04-10-07, 02:34 AM	dealkyr Quori Rakshasa Vol (CR 20) and the fact that enemies level up with the party and you almost never face the real one...
Chimaera2000 04-10-07, 02:50 AM	In one of the "Ask Keith Baker" threads, Keith was asked the question of whether Eberron could accomodate epic-level play. His answer was, "Most definitely!" As Ricohard_Draconis pointed out, there are several threats that could accomodate a high-level PC in the published material alone, to say nothing of what a DM can decide to insert into the setting. After all, who's to say that that the Daelkyr couldn't have been breeding a Hecatoncheires (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#hecatoncheires) as their vanguard for Xoriat's renewed invasion of Eberron? Or perhaps one is already here, imprisoned in Khyber with the Daelkyr... or has already been unleashed and is prowling the uncharted reaches of Xen'drik....
ekomega 04-10-07, 04:13 AM	From the Dragon article on the Lords of Dust, we can see that most members of the Council of Ashtakala have CRs from 20-30, and the Rakshasa Rajahs have immense, godly CRs. Even Melysse Miron is CR 21 if she can find her way back to Flamekeep. You could have a whole game based on her. So there's always someone to kill in Eberron, no matter what level you are.
Just another user 04-10-07, 04:22 AM	So there's always someone that can kill you in Eberron, no matter what level you are. fixed. :P
Nived 04-10-07, 04:23 AM	Baseline Daelkyr are CR 20 and scare the crap out of me. Seriously. They're mean. Look at those stats... I think they'd tear though most lvl 20s... and that's just a base line the ones in Kyber are supposed to be scarier.
Just another user 04-10-07, 04:28 AM	Eberron is full of opportunites for epic level adventuring, beside those already mentioned I can think to... Fixing the Mournland planar travelling stopping that dragon in Q'barra from reaching godhood restoring Galifar (or the Dhakaan empire if you prefer) Exploring Khyber for fun and profit helping to found the 13th(14th?) dragonmarked house. etc, etc.
Daydreamer 04-10-07, 04:50 AM	First thing up front; I love Eberron. That being said I need to ask you people what you think of my idea. From what I've seen in Eberron there is little or no chance of having a campaign go from 1st-20th level. Most of the BBEG's are around 10th (heck the Lord of Blades is 12th...) so what I think is that Eberron is not made for going to 20th. That also being said, I like going to 20th level. Anyone have any epic campaign ideas? reoccuring villians, have the pcs fight him when he is 12th and they are 8th, then have him be 16. Also, xendrik has giants, many giants are high cr monsters, also clever tactics making weaker creatures. But quite simply the best way to challenge high level pcs is to use the prophecy as an excuse to demonstrate that the world is changing and some new great age is on the horizon, since eberron is as you say, make it epic, make the pcs sweat as the rules of the world begin to unfold in front of them and-for the most part-the burden of being a hero falls on there shoulders. Make them be the ones necessary to face the next great impending challenge, and you can have what you want. Game 1-20, and even into epic.
crashbangboom 04-10-07, 04:53 AM	real simple, level up the villains
Kid SixXx 04-10-07, 07:35 AM	Use Google and search for the really helpful Eberron High Level Campaign FAQ that beloved board contributor, Charles Phelps, wrote. Hopefully the board reboots haven't eaten it yet. :P
okaynowa 04-10-07, 08:49 AM	real simple, level up the villainsAnd their minions. Mordain the Fleshweaver: "My next robeast will be better!"
Belabras 04-10-07, 01:06 PM	In addition to all the previously mentioned epic level threats, there's also the Daughters of Sora Kell (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20041018a)
Dragoloth 04-10-07, 03:28 PM	My Lord of Blades is a legendary paragon warforged with class levels. The villians can level up just as fast as the party.
Altar_Boy 04-10-07, 08:41 PM	No argument for epic-level threats. In a way, Eberron has more epic-level baddies than Faerun (okay, maybe Greyhawk). My beef is between 11 and 20th level. Lord of Blades is statted as 12, and there's some high-level baddies, but what about 13-18? Could someone throw me a bone on that?
Neutronium_Dragon 04-10-07, 09:22 PM	By those levels the PCs have become strategically important in Khorvaire due to the fact that they have power beyond what most people will ever achieve. D&D naturally tends to transition to a different style at those levels to begin with (dungeon crawls rarely cut it anymore by that point), and I that's usually the best direction to head in. They're now a power group in their own right rather than being the pawns of existing ones. Politics is going to play a much bigger role as they work out how they relate to all of the others.
Gilganarz_the_reporter 04-10-07, 11:17 PM	No argument for epic-level threats. In a way, Eberron has more epic-level baddies than Faerun (okay, maybe Greyhawk). My beef is between 11 and 20th level. Lord of Blades is statted as 12, and there's some high-level baddies, but what about 13-18? Could someone throw me a bone on that? A hill giant with 6 fighter levels in CR 13. A trio of them is what, 15? Can anyone say "expedition to Xendrik"?
goblin_pride 04-10-07, 11:25 PM	A hill giant with 6 fighter levels in CR 13. A trio of them is what, 15? Can anyone say "expedition to Xendrik"? No, but I can say "war with Droaam". By the time PCs reach epic levels as was pointed out N_D, they are power players on the political scene. There should be just as many rumors about them as there are about the lord of blades by the time they hit 12. People all over the continent will be talking about their latest exploits and other power groups are gonna be annoyed at them for hogging the spotlight. At epic levels it's not slaying dragons you should be worrying about, it's who sent them that should concern you. Well, possibly even how to get the dragons to start doing your bidding.
yrogerg 04-11-07, 12:13 AM	No argument for epic-level threats. In a way, Eberron has more epic-level baddies than Faerun (okay, maybe Greyhawk). My beef is between 11 and 20th level. Lord of Blades is statted as 12, and there's some high-level baddies, but what about 13-18? Could someone throw me a bone on that? Right, and that's why it's important to note that the key NPCs should be leveled up *with* the PCs. The Lord of Blades is whatever level is necessary to make him an appropriate threat; the *base* character is what's statted out.
Ryuu_Tenshi 04-11-07, 12:35 AM	Baseline Daelkyr are CR 20 and scare the crap out of me. Seriously. They're mean. Look at those stats... I think they'd tear though most lvl 20s... and that's just a base line the ones in Kyber are supposed to be scarier. Yes. Take a Daelkyr. Give it class levels. Give it 20 class levels in something utterly horrific. If you wanted to be truly evil? Make a Druid variant based on the utter, absolute corruption of everything natural, and give a Daelkyr 20 levels in it. Watch PC's scream in terror. Laugh.
johnkretzer 04-11-07, 12:47 AM	No argument for epic-level threats. In a way, Eberron has more epic-level baddies than Faerun (okay, maybe Greyhawk). My beef is between 11 and 20th level. Lord of Blades is statted as 12, and there's some high-level baddies, but what about 13-18? Could someone throw me a bone on that? Whatever happened to the good old days when DMs made their own NPC villians?
goblin_pride 04-11-07, 12:50 AM	Whatever happened to the good old days when DMs made their own NPC villians? But those aren't "official", John me boy. The youth of today can't be expected to actully do things like that, they expect everything to be spoon-fed to them.
Daydreamer 04-11-07, 12:54 AM	Yes. Take a Daelkyr. Give it class levels. Give it 20 class levels in something utterly horrific. If you wanted to be truly evil? Make a Druid variant based on the utter, absolute corruption of everything natural, and give a Daelkyr 20 levels in it. Watch PC's scream in terror. Laugh. technically speaking, they dont advance by class levels under core.
Cambian00 04-11-07, 12:59 AM	Everybody seems to have forgotten about the Demon Wastes. There a lots of high CR fiends listed in the various monster books.... Currently playing in a high level campain that is doing just that. Im playing a 16th lvl Templar Paladin of the Silver Flame leading a group of "heros" into the Wastes for some damage destruction and mayhem.... on a divine level of course...
Flame_Drake 04-11-07, 02:18 AM	technically speaking, they dont advance by class levels under core. Technically speaking, by RAW, you can advance anything you like with class levels as long as it has INT 3 +, although I think it is more practically to just create crazy Supernatural powers for advancing Daelkyr. Drake
NthDegree256 04-11-07, 02:51 AM	Everybody seems to have forgotten about the Demon Wastes. There a lots of high CR fiends listed in the various monster books.... Not to mention the fact that the eponymous dragons are such a crucial part of D&D, the Monster Manual doesn't even give you hard stats for any specific one; it gives you rules for how to build one at any CR from 2 to 27, so that dragons can be part of the game at any time. Sure, many of the dragons may hang out on Argonessen, but that doesn't stop a decent number from going out and making a nuisance of themselves in Khorvaire and Xen'drik. Throw a CR 15 adult silver dragon at your party and see how they react to the stereotypical "shiny = good!" dragon playing the role of a villain.:D
Domenic 04-11-07, 04:45 AM	One thing about high-level play that's bugging me though. Say a PC dies, in the 10th-13th level range. For one reason or another, resurrection is not an option (bad terms with high-level clerics, or too much multiclassing in the party for anyone to have the appropriate spells, and/or the PC is an outsider or something that can't be brought back without very powerful magic). So... now a new character shows up out of nowhere, a level behind the PCs? And wants to join the party? I mean, shouldn't this person have been famous already? I guess I could ask the PCs to design their successors, and make sure they're at least semi-famous.
Daydreamer 04-11-07, 04:53 AM	ONe thing is different, what levels 10-20 mean in Eberron. In a realm like fearun being 15 level is powerful, but it doesnt make you a power factor. I like to think of Eberron like this. At level 7-8 your a celebrity, sure a b list celebrity but famous nonetheless for your accomplishments. At levels 12+ your very famous and known world wide. At levels 15+your groups so powerful and famous that power organizations factor in your pcs location before they do something. The enemies take a priori note of your activities before acting. In epic level, your writing the next great age or historical event. So while it supports these high level events, they dont fit seemlessly into the world. When you get high level your characters actions are likely to impact the metastory.
cancerousmango 04-11-07, 10:13 AM	When I told my players that the villains scale to the PC's, they scoffed, "so what the hell, Vol or LoB is running around questing too? What's Vol's excuse for not leveling up for like 300 years and then all of a sudden, she gains 5 levels?" They call it DM Cheese.
Belabras 04-11-07, 11:32 AM	When I told my players that the villains scale to the PC's, they scoffed, "so what the hell, Vol or LoB is running around questing too? What's Vol's excuse for not leveling up for like 300 years and then all of a sudden, she gains 5 levels?" They call it DM Cheese. Maybe she has been and has used the xp to craft items all this time. :schemes: More likely is that the PCs actions are spuring her to take personal interest in seeing her schemes develop - which results in her gaining levels.
Drag0nUL 04-11-07, 12:47 PM	Why do all people assume that the most powerful characters around should be the leaders of countries/organizations? Most of the kings/dragonmarked house leaders didn't come to that position by sheer force, but rather by social status or clever plotting. To use a real life example: the president of the US is also, to my knowledge, the supreme commander of the army. Does this mean that he is the best fighter in the US army? The Karrnathi army could very well have a 20th level fighter 'hidden somewhere' among the lower ranks.
NthDegree256 04-11-07, 04:21 PM	When I told my players that the villains scale to the PC's, they scoffed, "so what the hell, Vol or LoB is running around questing too? What's Vol's excuse for not leveling up for like 300 years and then all of a sudden, she gains 5 levels?" They call it DM Cheese. Tell them to stop assuming that the levels printed in the ECS are accurate. Maybe in your version of Eberron, Vol has been level 19 for the past few hundred years. Or maybe she was level 12 up until about 30 years ago, only reached the printed level 16 last month, and has been continuing to level up ever since the PCs - themselves probably quite notable and famous once they're level 10+ - became powerful enough to seem a serious threat. And if Vol gaining levels before letting herself face the PCs doesn't sound realistic to them, ask them why they don't just go and attack her as 8th-level characters instead of questing to gain a few levels themselves first. :P
Edymnion 04-11-07, 06:02 PM	As has been said, consider the levels of the badguy NPCs like the Lord of Blades and Vol to be baseline stats. That is what they are at the very start of the game, when the PCs are level 1. As the PCs level up, the Lord of Blades isn't sitting on his hands, he's out there doing his thing and gaining levels as well. Remember, the low level bit only applies to HELPFUL characters. There are opponents of all levels out there, from 1 to deity status. Yes, some of the bound Rajas are so powerful they have divine rank (they're not gods per say, but they use the mechanical rules for gods due to their immense power). The Demon Wastes and Xen'Drik are filled with baddies of all levels as well. Another thing to keep in mind, killing things is *NOT* the only way to earn xp. Any encounter that stands a chance of stopping or slowing the PCs down is an encounter that can give xp, this includes story based roleplaying encounters such as puzzles, negotiations, persuading key figures, etc. You don't have to kill things to level up. Especially not in Eberron. Another angle, don't try to pit the party against just one or two high level opponents. Throw larger number of weaker opponents at them instead. Even a 20th level character can be brought down by enough angry lvl 1 peasants. One last thing to keep in mind is that especially at higher levels, the opponents are essentially balancing each other to prevent anyone from making any headway. Whenever one group tries to grab for power, the others respond to keep them from getting it (so that they will have a chance at it next time). As the party gets up in levels, they become players on a perfectly balanced field, which then has to try and reorganize to account for them. Which is why they don't attack the party until they are a high level, because until then the PCs just simply aren't a threat. Once they become powerful enough to pose a threat, the power players come out of the woodwork to neutralize it.
ArrowBlue 04-11-07, 06:07 PM	I actually have been scouring through my eberron library recently, prepping a campaign, and I noticed a page on Epic-Level Adventures in Eberron in Player's Guide to Eberron. It is under the Adventuring section, pg. 17. They make mention of how if the players are of epic lvl they are probably the first. And continue on about how therefore Eberron probably wouldn't hold many threats short of "the Dragons of Argonesson, the Inspired Lords of Riedra, and the few Daelkyr that lurk in Khyber". As others have stated it talks about advancing the CR's of Vol and the Lord of Blades. Vol possibly becoming a demilich. It then states my favorite line, "It is probably best, however, to introduce a new threat to Eberron to match the epic heroes who have risen to defend it". The possiblilities they propose are: New Daelkyr invasion from Xoriat with new aberrations from ELH and/or paragon Daelkyr (template in ELH). Other planes interacting with Eberron. Ancient dragon being born or dragon trying to attain deification. A villainous organization uses resources to create epic golem or constuct. Or a new great war breaks out, possibly involving other continents like Argonesson, Sarlona, or Xen'drick. All that is directly stated in PGtE. Another interesting idea would to have the ancient civilization of giants somehow return to Eberron, say after a bit of Spelljamming or Planeswalking, and decide to conquer the world. Or as others have stated the Rakshasa Rajahs are a good tool to use. Especially since you'd pretty much have to create them on your own, maybe use the supplement material from the Dragon Magazine article, which could be fun. They might lead an army of demons against Eberron, forcing Agronesson to once again become involved, this time without the help of Couatls, which could prove troublesome for the dragons. Eberron can become very cataclysmic. Speaking of cataclyms, an idea I had if my PCs reach high enough level was to introduce a epic lvl Cataclysm Mage (Explorer's Handbook pg.58) as a reoccuring villain. The last idea I have is to get the God's involved. There is artwork on pg. 144 of an apparition of The Devourer which could prove for inspiring an epic lvl swashbuckling adventure. Maybe taking to the depths and abyss under the water fighting krakens, multiple megalodon, leviathans, ocean striders, ocean giants, tempests, changing cloud rays to underwater rays, and maybe templating some monsters of legend, eventually leading to an end fight with The Devourer. There really are endless possibilities. Just use your imagination.
cancerousmango 04-11-07, 09:10 PM	Just had a great idea while driving my daughter to daycare: warforged collosus. 300 foot tall warforged...with a personality. Epic?
ArrowBlue 04-11-07, 09:53 PM	Haha, wow, 300 ft. tall warforged make me think of The Sentinels in X-Men. Maybe this could be something akin to an epic threat threat, only in Eberron rather than the Marvel universe. Multiple giant constructs that pose a danger to the party or the races of Eberron. Possible scenarios could be: These collosus warforged are being churned out by Merrix d' Cannith in an attempt to eliminate key political figures. Higher-ups in The Church of the Silver Flame are secretly paying House Cannith for production of these giant warforged in a plot to eliminate Shifters (a la X-Men) and/or other "mutant" races possibly including Changlings. They could be up front and take credit for such a move causing a world event to change history, with Shifters becoming almost extinct and Changlings on-the-run exiles. Or perhaps they are performing such an exchange in secret to keep good faith with the rest of Khorvaire. The Lord of Blades gets his hands on a new toy. :D Many possibilities with that, I like it.
Daydreamer 04-11-07, 10:15 PM	Does the explorers handbook for eberron have statted npcs? o0 i havnt looked at it, even if they are unofficial npcs.
Benicus 04-11-07, 10:41 PM	Wow I actually got feedback from the wizards boards. I'm amazed. I've been looking at these ideas and I love some of them, others not so much. Extrapolating from what's been said here I have come up with the basis for a campaign going into epic levels. Please keep posting ideas here, i've been loving what you guyes have come up with (300ft. warforged rocks :)). Ok here goes (BTW I'm going to be running this as a PBP on a roleplaying website and I'll be using other ideas posted here for my F2F group): The campaign begins and ends in Sharn starting at level 1 and ending at level 20. The PC's are brought together by the death of a friend, a Last War draft-dodger by the name of Kurdagan Stonesmash. Kurdagan commited suicide along with 32 other workers in an attempt to escape from torment by fellow co-workers at a small shipping firm by the name of Cogshome Shipping. What happened was Kurdagan and his fellow workers discovered that the head of the company was embezzling money to support a lavish lifestyle in Upper Dura, when the head of the company (a human named Tobilar ir'Lythander) found out he had all the other workers torment the people into madness. They soon commited suicide and then returned to haunt the factory as allips. -still working out the details for levels 3-13ish- After a while the PC's will discover a sect of the Cults of the Dragon Below is operating beneath Sharn. This cult is fanatically bent on bringing about a Daelkyr lord by the name of Dephanoiasixs. Dephanoiasixs was sealed by the Gatekeepers beneath the city in the Age of Demons but the Cult has been trying to locate the Planar Seal keeping him bound to Khyber, but the seal isn't just a normal magic stone. It's the base of Sharn itself, the Cogs. The Cult will eventually find this out and try to sink and destroy Sharn in an attempt to raise Dephanoiasixs from Khyber, the PC's will have to stop them. Now I know it's rough but what do you think? I always liked the idea of 'Sharn Falling' as an epic quest so now I found a way to implement it. I'm thinking that the true masterminds behind this would be the Lords of Dust but other than that I don't know how to implement it.
johnkretzer 04-12-07, 12:29 AM	But those aren't "official", John me boy. The youth of today can't be expected to actully do things like that, they expect everything to be spoon-fed to them. Well hopefuly one day they will learn to feed themselves
Just another user 04-12-07, 03:29 AM	Haha, wow, 300 ft. tall warforged make me think of The Sentinels in X-Men. Maybe this could be something akin to an epic threat threat, only in Eberron rather than the Marvel universe. Multiple giant constructs that pose a danger to the party or the races of Eberron. Possible scenarios could be: These collosus warforged are being churned out by Merrix d' Cannith in an attempt to eliminate key political figures. Higher-ups in The Church of the Silver Flame are secretly paying House Cannith for production of these giant warforged in a plot to eliminate Shifters (a la X-Men) and/or other "mutant" races possibly including Changlings. They could be up front and take credit for such a move causing a world event to change history, with Shifters becoming almost extinct and Changlings on-the-run exiles. Or perhaps they are performing such an exchange in secret to keep good faith with the rest of Khorvaire. The Lord of Blades gets his hands on a new toy. :D Many possibilities with that, I like it. or you could go the obvious way, the houses built them to capture aberrant dragonmarks bearers, you can't get more x-men than that. :)
crashbangboom 04-12-07, 07:57 AM	seriously.................if you need smeone to hold your hand and increase the cr so be it. start by giving your villains( and minions) the same number of build points as your PCs. give the villains levels equal to the avg. party level +2>4 then gear them up. remember that villains (vol, lob, etc) have many, many, many layers of underlings between them and any level party. red herrings, multiple bases, multiple informants. give the pc's a reason to fear the known as well as the unknown. okay I.m done ranting.........................
Kaodi 04-12-07, 11:34 AM	No matter how high level you are, the Undying Court and the Dragons of Argonessen will still be able to mess you up. However, the one problem with that is that they are unlikely to be motivated to mess you up. In any case, planar adventuring is an option for high level PCs. A series of adventures based around the politics of the cities of Syrania could be a cool place to start.
Nived 04-12-07, 12:44 PM	Now here's something I recently came across. Now according to Eberron Canon only one expedition in history has ever returned from Frostfell (The original Wayfinders), three if you count the incidents in the Heirs of Ash thrilogy... Why what up there is so terrible? Well I was glancing through frostburn and came across something quite terrible, the Shivhad, a CR 21 solitary Aberration that would give a Daelkyr a run for its money. Imagine this thing sitting up there, free since the Daelkyr invation. Garganutuan sized, intelligence of 21... Why is it up there, what is it doing, what has it been planning for all these years that's made it kill everyone to ever set foot on Frostfell, (original wayfinders and novel characters not withstanding). It's ability drain puts the Daelkyr's to shame too.
NthDegree256 04-13-07, 01:18 AM	Well I was glancing through frostburn and came across something quite terrible, the Shivhad, a CR 21 solitary Aberration that would give a Daelkyr a run for its money. (...) It's ability drain puts the Daelkyr's to shame too. Sure, for the daelkyr stats in the Eberron Campaign Setting book. Which are expressly described as representing a "weak" daelkyr, i.e. the bottom rung of a much larger power ladder. :D
Nived 04-13-07, 03:28 AM	Sure, for the daelkyr stats in the Eberron Campaign Setting book. Which are expressly described as representing a "weak" daelkyr, i.e. the bottom rung of a much larger power ladder. :D Yeah and the Shivhad has 24 HD and its advancement goes up to 72..... We can advance practically anything, I'm just saying its baseline to Daelkyr baseline is comperable.
Vharuck 04-13-07, 11:46 AM	When I told my players that the villains scale to the PC's, they scoffed, "so what the hell, Vol or LoB is running around questing too? What's Vol's excuse for not leveling up for like 300 years and then all of a sudden, she gains 5 levels?" They call it DM Cheese. If they want realism that much, next time they make a character have them role a 1d100. If they roll a 1, great, roll up a PC class. Otherwise, they're a commoner (or expert or adept or noble or magewright if they're really really lucky). I mean, adventurers are rare, so it's only realistic that they not always be one just because it makes the game fun.
Daydreamer 04-13-07, 05:13 PM	alternatively you can come up with an excuse thats pretty easy. 1. for the lord of blades-hes recent hes new, hes been adventuring hes just continuing to adventure. 2. for vol-shes just come out of the woodworks recently and made a move (for whatever reason)-perhaps she had to hide for fear of the dragons. to make this more realistic have the world react to her somehow, if its selective knowledge nobles and leaders show concern. If its world wide knowledge have the chronicle write a story about it. That way the pcs get the impression shes 'come out of hibernation' and is amasing her power.
ekomega 04-13-07, 08:25 PM	Now here's something I recently came across. Now according to Eberron Canon only one expedition in history has ever returned from Frostfell (The original Wayfinders), three if you count the incidents in the Heirs of Ash thrilogy... Why what up there is so terrible? Well I was glancing through frostburn and came across something quite terrible, the Shivhad, a CR 21 solitary Aberration that would give a Daelkyr a run for its money. Imagine this thing sitting up there, free since the Daelkyr invation. Garganutuan sized, intelligence of 21... Why is it up there, what is it doing, what has it been planning for all these years that's made it kill everyone to ever set foot on Frostfell, (original wayfinders and novel characters not withstanding). It's ability drain puts the Daelkyr's to shame too. I think the Shivhad and the Daelkyr in the ECS are pretty evenly matched, which is indicated by their similar challenge ratings. The Shivhad does a ton of damage, but with a CHA of only 12, the Daelkyr only needs to get a few successful hits to finish it. The beauty of the Daelkyr's ability drain is that there is no saving throw. Even the Shivhad cannot compete with that. With the Daelkyr being able to drain with a touch attack, and the Shivhad with a Touch AC of 8, it comes down to which of the two monsters goes first in combat. More likely the Daelkyr.
Gilganarz_the_reporter 04-13-07, 08:43 PM	No, but I can say "war with Droaam". By the time PCs reach epic levels as was pointed out N_D, they are power players on the political scene. There should be just as many rumors about them as there are about the lord of blades by the time they hit 12. People all over the continent will be talking about their latest exploits and other power groups are gonna be annoyed at them for hogging the spotlight. At epic levels it's not slaying dragons you should be worrying about, it's who sent them that should concern you. Well, possibly even how to get the dragons to start doing your bidding. The OP was asking for ideas on 10th to 20th. Just becasue they CAN be political power players doesn't mean they WILL be. They can still go traipsing around the globe if they want. When my PCs got to high levels, I sent them to the Frostfell to hunt down a lost giant temple that could bring desires to life (and was thus the destination of the BBEG).
yrogerg 04-13-07, 09:24 PM	When I told my players that the villains scale to the PC's, they scoffed, "so what the hell, Vol or LoB is running around questing too? Err, yes. Remember, XP in D&D comes from *overcoming challenges*, not killing things. Otherwise, there'd be no such things as high-level Aristocrats. Why did they *think* they've kept running into Vol's and the LoBster's minions this whole time, anyway?
yossarius 04-14-07, 04:13 PM	I totally agree with yrogerg. This isn't Diablo or World of Warcraft we're playing here. One of the things that first drew me to Eberron was the fact that it took place in a world too complicated for the "kill enemy, collect treasure and XP, repeat" paradigm to legitimately exist. Once the PCs reach 10th level or so, more of their time should be spent interacting with various other power groups who might be interested in blocking them from achieving whatever their goals are. When battles do occur, instead of giving the NPCs or monsters 5 extra levels, just have the battle take place in a location highly detrimental to the PCs (ie. underwater, on the plane of Fernia, 2 miles above the surface, in the middle of a cleverly contructed trap in the Cogs under Sharn, etc.) Most of us as DMs know that at low levels we treat the PCs with kid gloves. Nasty surprises are left out of our adventures, because we know the characters can't really handle them. As the PCs advance, however, those same nasty surprises become fair practices. Instead of having that mimic disguise itself as a chest (of which any experienced player is rightfully suspicious), maybe it disguises itself as a helm which detects as strong abjuration magic (insert your own game-mechanical justification why here). PC places mimic/helm on his head; mimic receives +4 to hit PC and automatically crits if successful. Nasty. And totally appropriate at higher levels.
mhacdebhandia 04-14-07, 10:34 PM	You can run an Eberron campaign at any level. There are high-level threats - the daelkyr, the quori, the Lords of Dust - and lower-level threats which could have risen in power with the PCs as the campaign progresses - the Lord of Blades being the canonical example. If he always manages to escape a la Dr. Doom, he can be a great recurring villain. I'm about to start the Savage Tide adventure path in Eberron, so if the game survives we'll be playing from 1st level to 20th level or higher.
Siberys 04-16-07, 10:58 PM	Just had a great idea while driving my daughter to daycare: warforged collosus. 300 foot tall warforged...with a personality. Epic? There's already one o' thems - the Godforged, featuring prominently in my campaign. Godzilla is to Tokyo as the Godforged is to Sharn :evillaugh Mentioned in the (I think) ECS and RoE, but definitely in FoE, though I read about it before FoE came out. And the PCs have to stop it.