Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mkill 07-08-07, 10:26 PM	At the moment, I'm toying with the idea to start a campaign, 200 years after the time described in the book. Here's what I came up with so far and I'd like to know what you think. Technology The main change is the advance of technology. In 200 years, Eberron has reached the stage of almost modern technology, roughly equivalent to the Fin de Siècle (end of the 19th century, that is). In an age of invention, physics, chemistry and engineering have seen a fast development in Eberron, and have challenged the monopoly of artificers and dragonmarked houses over technology. It has steam engines, factories, railways and ocean liners, oil rigs and early motor cars, explosives and firearms, newspapers, stock exchanges, the telegraph and even zeppelins. Natural ressources With the rise of technology, more conventional ressources like timber, ore, coal and oil have become increasingly important, with dragonshards reduced to an eccentric luxury item. Mines, sawmills and oil rigs have spread over the continents, and nations vie for productive territory. This new crave for ressources has sparked resistance. The orcs with their strong druidic traditions fiercely resist the exploitation of their forests. Oil is seen as the "blood of Khyber", and is surrounded by many superstitions. Social development This technological advances brought huge social changes. The demand for cheap labour has brought migration of orcs and goblins, and even lizardfolk to the human-dominated cities, creating a class of nonhuman urban poor. The dragonmarked houses have seen a huge fall in power. Their magic is seen as a quaint pasttime activity of gentlemen, but nothing that drives the economy anymore. The houses do still have information networks, financial ressources and political clout, but they are but one player on the field. Warforged 200 years after the Last War, nearly all of the warforged veterans have seized functioning and were disassembled for spare parts. With the creation forge technology thought to be lost, only few warforged remain. Even the Lord of the Blades has not been heard of, unless you want to believe the fantastic stories of the tabloids. The last Warforged were desperately seeking a future for their race, but this quest appears to be abandoned. They refuse to talk about it. Religion A religious war has split the sovereign host. While several churches hailed the advent of technology, others declared it a heresy and tried to stop it, maintaining the old "social harmony". The pantheon broke apart, with each church blaming another for the shism. Two different popes emerged, claiming to reunite the church, but all they managed was to reinforce their own sides. Magic The advent of technology came with a worldwide weakening of magic. How the two are related is unknown, and theories abound. While the everyday magic of magewrights and scharlatans appears to be unaffected, powerful mages have found it increasingly difficult to produce truly world-shaking magics, and powerful artifacts have become fickle. Politics Khorvaire With 200 years of somewhat stable peace on Khorvaire, disturbed only by minor battles that serve as armwrestling between the nations, the continent has turned into an economic powerhouse. As nations find not much to be gained on their home continent, they have turned their attention elsewhere. A steady stream of merchants, immigrants and conquerors have found their way to the other continents. Karrnath With peace going on for roughly 200 years, Karrnath has found war dead in short supply. The famous undead armies are slowly falling apart, turning to skeletons and even falling to dust. Increasingly powerful magic is necessary to keep the country running. The vampire king, tired of eternal ruling, has retreated to a huge mausoleum north of the capital, and left politics to a bickering council of nobles. He still runs the country behind the courtains. Northern Lhazaar On the northern isles of the Lhazaar principality, a group of Shifters has driven out other humanoids and created a safe haven for themselves and the few lycantrophes that survived the onslaught by the silver flame. What started as a colony is slowly developing into an independent nation. The Mournland The curse over Cyre has weakened, and life is slowly croaching back into the Mournland. While the inner heart is still a desolated and deadly wasteland, courageous settlers and hardened bandits populate the outer rim. It is not a paradise, but for some it is the only place left to go. Rumour has it that the cult of the Lord of the Blades has created a city of machines in the heart of the Mournland. Travellers claim to have seen a well-defended border, that no flesh-being is allowed to pass. Xendrik Colonies have been founded on the Xendrik north coast, slowly driving back the jungle. The colonies have been increasingly independent and are only nominally controlled by their founding nations. Aerenal For the elves of Aerenal and their Deathless leaders, merely a generation has passed. Yet, they have seen increasing attempts by humans to force access and trade on the continent. A human delegation was allowed to the court in 1123, an event that ended in frustration for both sides. Tensions increased, and Aerenal decided to completely close off the borders and drive away ships from Khorvaire. The humans answered with joint attack from steamboats and armored flying vessels, dealing a crushing blow to the elven navy. Now, several Khorvaire nations have opened treaty ports in Aerenal. Argonessen Commercial dragon hunting has evolved, with dragon skin, dragon blood and even dragon meat exploited as a ressource. It has even been seen as a "gentlemen sport". With the victory over Aerenal, human nations have become cocky, and decided they could make their advance into Argonessen. The dragons, too focused on their millenia-spanning prophecy, were slow to see the sudden danger, and human forces made a first, successful advance into the continent, slaying a few younger dragons who were unable to build a coordinated defense. This was, until the Council of the Ancient decided to take action. The dragons elected Khamazzor, a Black Great Wyrm and cunning strategist, and one of the few to recognize the human threat, as Tribun to organize the defense of the continent. A united dragon army wiped out the human exploration force, and is currently preparing for a retributive strike on Khorvaire. THE DRAGON WAR HAS BEGUN.
3nigma 07-09-07, 12:35 AM	Interesting idea. I think it is more of a change in "atmosphere" of the setting, more than anything. Technology instead of magic, to sum it up briefly. It sounds a lot like Iron Kingdoms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Kingdoms Iron Kingdoms and Eberron are very similar, but very different. On the surface they appear almost the same, but Iron Kingdoms is more magic vs. technology, rather than Eberron which is magic AS technology. Very sublte difference, but extremely LARGE difference. Otherwise, very cool ideas, but very different. -3nigma
mkill 07-09-07, 01:51 AM	Actually, I thought about keeping most of the Eberron magic, but adding more "mundane" technology on top of it. While normal people use non-magical tech, nobles, rich people, the military, elves, dragons, and independent adventurers still have access to magic. Both will be equally powerful. Magic will be a bit weaker, probably banning 8th and 9th level spells (which are uncommon in Eberron anyway), but I have no intent on nerfing Wizards or Artificers. Maybe you've seen the Full Metal Alchemist Anime or read the manga, that's the kind of magic-tech mixture I'm aiming for. The Arcanum computer game is another source of inspiration, as is Final Fantasy VII, which had magic spells on the one side but even a space-going rocket on the other. Of course, stuff like dragon-shard powered cars and a Ghost Touch Winchester +3 are also possible. But yes, I'm already a fan of Iron Kingdoms, I have some of the books and I'll certainly loot them for ideas. Some stuff might even come from D20 Modern.
Identitystolen 07-09-07, 09:01 AM	Thats definitely not what I had for a campaign I built (never ran), but whatever floats your boat. Personally I had magic and artifice far more refined and emulating more modern era tech than having it phased out by more real world mundane items. This was spurred on by the ability to create 'synthetic' or false dragonshards. Not quite as powerful as the real things but they can emulate their abilities quite well. Maybe something cataclysmic will happen to weaken magic at some point, but at the moment I don't have any plans for that. Sharn and other city goblins have always been use for cheap labor, no surprises there :D Other than Pharlan and Thuranni, most of the houses either collapsed (Orein, Cannith, Jorasco) or nothing more than stiff competition. Pharlan still has the intelligence market cornered, easily beating out the competition in terms of quantity and quality of intelligence. They're far to entrenched and good at what they do to be brushed aside. Thuranni becomes more like the Paelion family they massacred in the shadow schism and are basically sanctioned assassins. While they do some intelligence work, they mainly focus on wet work jobs. I had planned something very similar for the warforge actually. With the laws prohibiting any new 'forge the numbers slowly dwindled. There was actually a faction of forge (not very long lasting) that embraced dying as they feel they experienced all they could on Eberron and yearned for more. Well, I had a lot that happened before the start of the campaign, but the Xen'Drik and Aerenal thing you have were spot onto what I had.
mkill 07-09-07, 11:23 AM	Interesting. You're probably right, magic items would become more refined and there would be attempts to create new items that mimic the new technology coming out. What bugs me about Eberron is that some magic inventions are really pricey and ressource-intensive, like the lightning rail on conductor stones. It would be so much easier to just have two parallel iron bars stretching across the countryside. You could still power the engine by magic if you want, but a magic track is just not worth it. In the same way, with thousands of capable alchemists on the continent, it's just a question of time until someone has the idea to make a powder that explodes, and from there it's not far to have someone take a tube, put said powder in, put a ball in the tube and then set the whole thing off. Magic alchemy actually makes that easier to create. It's already strange that current Eberron has no firearms, not even very basic ones. It's impossible to believe that future Eberron will have none. I'll even go so far as to say that Eberron will see a faster technological advance than Earth. On Earth, whenever there was a technological problem you can't solve, you had to research and engineer until it works. On Eberron, if the machine doesn't work, put a spell in and there you go! Magic would actually be the driving force behind technological invention. That magic is still waning has other sources, but that would be for the players to discover. @Identitystolen: Your ideas sound interesting, too. Would you share more of your notes?
Identitystolen 07-09-07, 12:56 PM	What bugs me about Eberron is that some magic inventions are really pricey and ressource-intensive, like the lightning rail on conductor stones. It would be so much easier to just have two parallel iron bars stretching across the countryside. You could still power the engine by magic if you want, but a magic track is just not worth it. I figured in that sooner or later someone would figure out a mass production technique. In my version, between Merrix's demise (lab accident, Xulo), the escalated in-fighting that followed, and the fact an outside group of artificers and magewrights figured out some mass production techniques, Cannith's fate was sealed. Now that Forge of War is out, its revealed that Cannith had mass production techniques of its own and still does. However the division of the house, drain of the war, and lose of it's primary facilities in Cyre mean Cannith is nowhere near the production potential it once had. Given time, and a helpful 're-unification' of the house, I'm sure Cannith could go on to refine the process allowing for, as an example, cheaper lightning stones. And really, is all that mining, smelting, refining, and forging of those bars all that much cheaper? :P @Identitystolen: Your ideas sound interesting, too. Would you share more of your notes? Soon as I find them. Most of what I'm putting down here is from memory, I drew most of this up about a year and half ago while in college. Also the campaign never got off the ground so I only have a preliminary outline on how things went (including stuff previous PCs did in current era adventures.)
Kinger 07-09-07, 06:30 PM	If it were me, I would avoid introducing "technology" in the traditional sense of the word and focus more on the "magic." The reason there's no gunpowder, for example, in my campaign is that chemistry just doesn't work like that. Laws and axioms that we take for granted in reality are not the same in my Eberron. The sun, for example, isn't hot because it's a fusion reaction, but because of something magical. Now, having said all that, I could see magic made even more widespread and available given sufficient experimentation, development, and research by those who wield it. The Magewright class, for example, is an indication magic is within the reach of the common man. Stretch that out over 200 years and you soon get Cannith making their OWN schema to bypass all those nasty 1000gp-per-day crafting rules and whatnot. Magic becomes available to the common man, much like technology does. 20 years ago only the elite owned cellphones, yes? You'd be hardpressed to find a youth without one now. Similarly, while Sivis is relied upon in canon Eberron for delivering messages afar via their telegram-esque magic devices, in Eberron+200 it may have become a service provider in the vein of AT&T and Bell. Everyone's got a Speaking Stone, but unless you keep those monthly payments going to Siviscorp yours won't work. Still, that's the way I'D do it. Future Eberron wouldn't have internal combustion or radio frequencies or nuclear fission, it would have what it has already: magic, though magic even MORE widespread and available. That being said, there's always fun to be had in a Magic-vs-Technology conflict, and if you want to say that chemistry, physics, and such works like (or at least closer to how) it does in reality (explaining away Alchemist's Spark somehow...) then more power to you. There's always an appeal to Dwarves with Guns. "I shot the Sherrif, and the Deputy, and your wee duggy, too!" :)
Sarlax 07-10-07, 03:29 AM	I think the lesson of the Last War (and of the previous millennium) for Khorvaire is that magic works. I don't think there's going to be a sudden investment in technological development. While I do support the general idea that Eberron's technology should have been improving over the many centuries - there's no reason it should have been static for so many thousands of years - if you do buy that campaign element, it probably shouldn't change so quickly. It's a good point about the magewright. While mundane technology would be better for advancing the options of commoners if you start at zero in both magic and tech, once you're at a level like Eberron where magic is far ahead of technology, magic is doing things that no one can imagine technology doing. In other words, 3000 years ago humans might not have conceived of any effect capable of producing a long range burst of fire for war, but in 998 YK, they know of Fireball but not of mortars or grenades. In this state, no one is going to consider the use of technology to do these things. People "know" that no smith is ever going to make a weapon from steel alone that can kill someone at a range of hundreds of feet, but magic can (Magic Missile). Now that magewrights exist, technology will be even more stilled. Necessity being the mother invention, magewrights ensure that whatever you might have needed technology for, magic can handle. There's a mindset that if you need some kind of exotic problem, you turn to magic. This is overall probably bad for Khorvaire, since magic always requires capable casters but technology propagates without expertise. That said, perhaps there will one day be magic that crosses a threshold such it bypasses its natural limits - maybe someone will one day create the "Bestow Arcanism" spell, which grants its subject 5 levels of wizard, or maybe Cannith will create a creation forge that churns out 20th-level artificer warforged. *** Here's how I'd start doing away with magic in Eberron - the dragonshards start drying up. Over a span of several years, fewer Eberron shards appear in the soil, Khyber shard mines dry up, and Siberys shards cease to fall. Once the trend is observed, the price of magic items will skyrocket as people hoard the dragonshards they can collect. For a while, House Tharashk will be the most powerful organization on Khorvaire, but it collapses when even it can no longer provide the shards. At first, nations do little, but they soon recognize the importance of dragonshards. They impose great tariffs on the sale of magic items, but these still don't slow the trade as their is too much money to be have. Nations nationalize all magic items in their borders and thus create a huge black market. Reluctant to go to war for the magic of the neighbors (since this would expend even more of their reserves), countries turn to their spy services to steal that which they can from their neighbors. The warforged begin to be hunted. Their killers seek to strip them of any lingering dragonshards and shard fragments their bodies may contain. The great wonders of modern magic disappear as they are harvested for parts and for the black market. The lightning rails are torn apart, fire elementals are freed from airships to secure the Khyber shards, and even the Everbright Lanterns are stolen away. Spellcasters for a time enjoy a surge in power as the items which once supplanted them become rare. They command extraordinary prices for their spells, but the decline in artifice makes their work more difficult. When they cannot discover a way to replace the dragonshards, their client organizations and nations become angry and the population at large distrusts spellcasters, associating them with the general decline of civilization. Over the years, the spellcasters retire to remote locations to preserve their craft while the people reject them. The Houses as a whole falter. Without dragonshard focus magic, they can no longer tap such a diverse well of power and can only use their limited range of spell-like abilities. Their Guilds lose clout and competitors emerge, now focusing on technological development. Phiarlan and Thuranni gain wealth as they are first contracted to steal magical items then incredible power as they hold the acquired magic for their own use. Vadalis grows a bit from the vacuum left by the fall of Orien and Lyrandar, but they can't replace such speedy transport with their well-bred mounts. After a generation of humans has been born without such easy access to magical artifice, people begin turning to technology. No longer able to just enchant armor, they focus on making better steel. Without flying buttresses, they create new forms of mundane architecture. Without fireball, they start paying attention to this mix of powders that burns in an instant.
Kinger 07-10-07, 06:44 PM	That, I think, is a very good way of shifting Eberron from a magical to technological focus, without out-right ELIMINATING magic. When you've got magic, you don't NEED science. But what happens when you don't have magic anymore? I'd think it would take a long time to come about, though. More than 200 years, at least. People are starting with technology really no more advanced than the middle ages (We can make steel! Huzzah!), so it should be a bit of time before the first blunderbuss finds its way into Dwarven hands.
mkill 07-10-07, 10:12 PM	Eberron has steel. What do you think magic weapons and the Lightning Rail are made of? Eberron does not use magic to conjure things out of thin air. Things are built by wood and steel, the sweat of the working man, and old-style engineering. Then they are powered up by magic. As soon as somebody discovers an energy source that is not magic, it will be used. There is money to be made by breaking the monopoly of artificers and the dragonmarked houses. Magic will have the cutting edge, because there is always more that you can do with magic, but for cheap mass production, going without magic takes less ressources. I also believe that the supply of dragonshards is limited. For the current level of magic use, ressources seem to suffice. But for truly big projects, like Lightning Rail to every city or factory mass production of everything, Eberron will run out of dragonshards. It doesn't need any big world-shaking event for that to happen.
Trannic 07-10-07, 10:39 PM	I must admit, I do like most of the ideas you've put forward mkill, except for the advancement of mundane tech over magical tech. It seems to me, and this is only my opinion so you can take it for what it's worth, that it's more likely that magical tech would be refined over 200 years rather than letting it fall by the wayside. House Cannith itself, figured out a way to mass produce armor and weapons, so it would not be a far stretch for the house to figure out a way to mass produce useful, cheap magical items. This would spur others to try to match this, and a techno magic "war" would start, driving down the price of magic to the point where the common person could buy items to make their lives easier. Over 200 years, you might even see that magic might become the common man's tool, used for everything from moving mountains to moving bread from the counter to the table. I like the idea of the warforged almost becoming a fringe race desperate for path, a "messiah" to lead them back from the brink. Also don't see anything wrong with the increase in resource demand, since that would happen in any society that grows and becomes more consumer based. Anyway, before I talk too much and wander away from my point, such as it is, I shall stop. Besides, you've now given me a few ideas for a campaign.
Identitystolen 07-10-07, 11:48 PM	Eberron does not use magic to conjure things out of thin air. See spell True Creation :P Then they are powered up by magic. As soon as somebody discovers an energy source that is not magic, it will be used. Again, I must ask why. Magic has been made into a reliable, efficient means of energy and propulsion. Have you seen early steam and oil based engines? They're loud, inefficient, and very dangerous (we had a few people killed in Indiana a few years back when a boiler blew on an old steam tractor.) While they would of worked for 18th-19th century people of this world Eberron already has the means to out preform them in every respect. I also believe that the supply of dragonshards is limited. For the current level of magic use, ressources seem to suffice. But for truly big projects, like Lightning Rail to every city or factory mass production of everything, Eberron will run out of dragonshards. It doesn't need any big world-shaking event for that to happen. I totally agree with this part. Though in the current age Dragonshards, while hard to extract, are fairly common if you know where to look. This may not always be the case and my line of thinking is that some far sighted individual (probably an elf, intelligent undead, or native outsider) would recognize this and try to replicate the effects through more re-usable and reliable means.
Yakman 07-11-07, 11:23 AM	Eberron in 200 years? they already have a setting like that--and it's 30 years old! Blackmoor.