Eberron Adventures: Just enjoys playing Fetch... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eberron Adventures: Just enjoys playing Fetch... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zalaz Mavi
05-12-05, 08:15 PM During lunch today, I stopped by the comic book shop. The newest issue of Dungeon was on the rack, and I saw that it contained an Eberron adventure, "The Crypt of Crimson Stars." After skimming through the piece, I came to an observation. With the exception of "Steel Shadows," every Eberron adventure I've encounted has the exact same story — rich person in Sharn hires PCs to retrieve something. This disappoints me. For a setting with so much imagination poured into it, the adventure proposals are profoundly unimaginative. It also makes me feel sorry for those DMs who rely solely on published materials. I wonder if their players begin to feel like birddogs after a mission or two.
I'm in no way a professional writer. And with running my own company and raising a young daughter, I have little spare time. Yet, I can still manage to come up with something compelling for my players each week. For example, I'm reading Grifter's Game by Lawrence Block. I took the idea of the suitcase full of heroin, and came up with an adventure where my players are hired by House Kundarak to transport important bank papers from A to B. While at the lightning rail station, the case containing the papers is mixed-up with an identical looking case full of an illicit substance. A case which the authorities are following. My players will not only have to dodge the Law, but criminals trying to get their drugs back, as well as get the Kundarak case back and complete the job. I came up with that adventure in five minutes during what I laughably call my "lunch break." It's not award winning, but it fits the pulp/noir mold and should definitely be fun.
So I wonder, what are other people's thoughts on the handling of Eberron adventures, whether published products or homespun? Have the staff writers become so stuck to Indiana Jones and The Maltese Falcon that all they can churn out are fetch missions? Is it that they don't grasp the concept of the setting and are just writing D&D adventures with enough Eberron novelties thrown in to let them claim it as Eberron? Or, are they so overworked they can't think straight anymore? I'm curious as to what the community at large has to say...
Radkres
05-12-05, 09:29 PM Think of it this way they have to market for average or less DM and players.
The ones who want official material but don't have the time to make up there own.
Were a linear plot is the best, simple go fetch knickknack or destroy same.
Convoluted and multi villain plots some times leave them going who, what, when, where?
Example:
The princess sold the plans to her ex lover who got killed by an old flame who gave it to her lover who then sold it to the gambler who then lost a game of chance which is how the plans wound up in a pawn shop of the mayors brother. When they were bought by a wizard who thought there might be some hidden message in them but he got killed while on his way home by some bandits who then got killed by the players as they tried the same thing on them. When the players tried to sell the plans were arrested for espionage.
KP91
05-12-05, 09:39 PM It's because so much is unexplored so this is the most common adventure. There are hundreds of threads with ideas though. You might also want to try Steel this Hook or your own ideas.
zambuka
05-12-05, 10:23 PM ...With the exception of "Steel Shadows," every Eberron adventure I've encounted has the exact same story — rich person in Sharn hires PCs to retrieve something. ...
It is not just Eberron that suffers from this, it is other settings as well. This is why I no longer buy Dungeon, or any official module for that matter. Sure you can occasionally get a good adventure but I find it is far too much hassle to dig through the mediocre, cookie cutter, fetch type adventures.

Instead i go through my colection (a good 10 years worth) of pre 3rd ed (mostly pre wizards) dungeon magazines and adapt from there. What I have found is that many of these 2nd ed adventures have more Eberron flavour than most of the Eberron modules. All it takes in many cases is adding an Eberron specific item or person. In a couple of cases, adventures that revolve around intrigue or just some interesting character, just dumping it straight into the middle of Sharn works without having to change anything but the location.

I also make use of "steal this hook" and Sharn Inquisitive articles to start adventures. I also write a lot of my own stuff but a vast majority is still adapted from earlier modules and adventures.

The results are currently that my players are using the fear of redscale (from the last SI) to clear streets while chasing a group of anti-forged. They also have a missing persons problem (being dealt with by a young and inexperienced inquisitive, old dungeon module with only the inquisitive added. The missing people are being turned to stone and sold by an aging artist who lost his touch some time ago but has found an item that turns flesh to stone) that they want to solve, and will get involved with soon enough. They have the apprentice of a nearby wizard (Pandora's apprentice, once again from Dungeon, change Pandora to a house Orien wizard specialising in teleport and other travel spells) turning up soon after her mistress goes missing.

Nothing I have planned for the next 2 or three levels has required anything more than adjusting 2nd ed to 3rd ed and changing some minor details like classes. Even changing the classes is not an issue because the ones who need changing are NPCs they wont fight, so I don't even have to stat them. The few I do have to fight are statted straight out of the DMG.
Iuducium
05-12-05, 11:09 PM Interestingly enough, I haven't encountered that much "fetch" in the Eberron modules I'm using. Admittedly, Shadows of the Last War is definitely a fetch adventure, but it also has a bit of intrigue in it.

Whispers, which my group is currently about to finish, has much less of a fetch to it (IMO) and more of a pursuit. Sure, they need to "fetch" the Soul Blade, but it's more about preventing the escape of a traitor.

Grasp of the Emerald Claw, from what I've read so far, has the fetch in it, but quickly moves past that.

Mostly, the fetch idea works well as a premise for adventures in a setting where many of the adventurers would be professional explorers and dungeoneers.

The actual fetch adventures, like Crypt of Crimson Stars, works well for my group since our group's middleman patron runs and explorer/recovery operation. (that, of course, cannot be the case for everyone, and I realize this.)

Anyway, when I find that an adventure piece or whole has too much of something like "fetch this and get paid," I simply add things in to spice it up. Not that hard, and can be done with a small time budget.

Nice one on the suitcase of drugs. Sounds fun!
UltimateReality
05-12-05, 11:13 PM With the exception of "Steel Shadows," every Eberron adventure I've encounted has the exact same story — rich person in Sharn hires PCs to retrieve something.IMO, the most obvious reason for the exclusivity of this adventure hook is thus: the module writers don't know what PCs your players are going to make. They have no idea what motivations, goals, or personalities these PCs will have, and so they can't tie in a hook that relates to that. Therefore, they must default to the most common motivator: gold. It's a universal hook. Nearly everyone's gotta work for a living, even in D&D. Adventurers can always use gold, and nine times out of ten it's the motivator that is most likely to get results.

The writers are making the modules for the widest audience possible. This means that for those who like hack 'n slash, these adventures are fine. But if you're with a group that likes political intrigue, they figure you'll be creative enough to adapt the module and plot yourself.
Marshall Stone
05-13-05, 01:12 AM IMO, the most obvious reason for the exclusivity of this adventure hook is thus: the module writers don't know what PCs your players are going to make. They have no idea what motivations, goals, or personalities these PCs will have, and so they can't tie in a hook that relates to that. Therefore, they must default to the most common motivator: gold. It's a universal hook. Nearly everyone's gotta work for a living, even in D&D. Adventurers can always use gold, and nine times out of ten it's the motivator that is most likely to get results.

The writers are making the modules for the widest audience possible. This means that for those who like hack 'n slash, these adventures are fine. But if you're with a group that likes political intrigue, they figure you'll be creative enough to adapt the module and plot yourself.

I have to agree with UlitmateReality here, unless it was possible to submit your group to the magazine and request an adventure the writers have to make the adventures as "open" to as many different adventuring groups as possible.

However, as I understand it, the "go fetch" adventures are a staple of pulp/noir books and films; though I've only recently begun reading such books.
And the ECS itself states that Patrons assigning missions is something of a standard in Eberron; though, I guess, they're not all fetch missions.

I know in my campaigns I make heavy use of "the Patron" that assigns missions. I initially ran the "Errand Of Mercy" adventure by MarkB, and then expanded upon it. I used the origianl patron in that story, Dramel d'Jorasco, who continually hires the PC's to perform tasks like find the cultists who tried to stop the Errand, find out what caused this unnatural plague, etc. Though so far I haven't done a "go fetch" mission per se.

I also do what you do and take adventure ideas from books, movies, TV shows, etc. I actually like "stealing" adventures from Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV show; a gold mine of plot hooks and BBEG's that I modify to fit Eberron.

I don't really have a problem with fetch mission adventures, you got to start somewhere afterall. And besides you can always tweak any pre-written adventure/module to suit your tastes/needs.
stembolt
05-13-05, 01:15 AM It is a little bit more complicated then simply “making the modules for the widest audience possible.” The problem with adventures is you have to write them without knowing any of the characters involved. There is actually a discussion on the letters page of that issue of dungeon.

How do you make a political intrigue game without knowing any characters?

That being said the adventure is pretty pitiful. (though I must admit it is the first adventure I have seen not written by Keith Baker that appears to be set in actual Eberron. For that matter it is the first written work worth reading, not co-/authored by Keith Baker.) You go to a place and fight. If I ever use that adventure I will probably add a whole quest where the tribe must accept them (or something) so they can enter the holy place.

I remember seeing an email on the topic of adventures ages ago. It had the title “the plot of every adventure ever” it then went on like:
1)Go get thing.
2)Transport Thing.
3)Prevent someone from getting thing.

And so on. Then the email described the plots to movies. Star Wars was “Transport Thing” followed by “Go Kill Thing.”

Every adventure is simple, once it is broken down.
BloodyRoots
05-13-05, 01:30 AM The adventures made for Eberron are fine by my account. I agree with the last few posters, the adventures created are not made for your group of players, they are made for everyones group of players.

It is oh so easy to adapt published adventures to your own campaign. Our group just finished the grasp of emerald claw/last shadow adventures. The day after the Heroes triumphant return to Sharn they find that Lady Eleadrn(sp?) has been killed in her own home and the adventurer's are wanted for questioning. This hook leads them into the Steel Shadows adventure. Was she murdered by the ghostly Jack in Irons, a hateful WF or perhaps it was some other devious plot?
Zalaz Mavi
05-13-05, 09:57 AM Writing "one size fits all" is a given, I understand that. What I find baffling about the situation is the thought that there has to be more than two scenarios one can write for a general audience.
I've already covered the Eberron specific adventures. And looking over just the generic missions on the main site, those are more or less "go to the abandoned tower and kill everything." The same exact premise done over and over and over and... The variations are superficial, almost negligible.
Again the question eating at me, is why is the variety lacking? Especially looking at the example in my first post, the concept of a luggage mix-up would work for most groups with the right focus. Even hack-n-slashers could use it. While it arguably is a fetch mission in a sense, it at least adds some nice twists. In a short space of time, I did more than trade out warforged for dinosaurs, or whathaveyou.
Which begs a second question, if I, an amateur gamer, can form a general comsumption adventure idea during a working lunch, without even intending to, why can't the professionals who game 40 hours a week match that level of creativity, or better yet, put me to shame?...
Lady Morn
05-13-05, 10:17 AM As a player, I have never really thought about the sameness of the adventures. Because my DM, as do most DMs, has customized the adventure before we embark.
Now, after reading through some adventures, I wonder at the lack of variety too. WotC as a company, is really one huge gaming group. I would think that all those creative individuals in one place would challenge and inspire each other more. If not, then as individuals say to themselves: I've already written such'and'such adventure, let's try something different.
Acceptableloss
05-13-05, 12:09 PM I know in my campaigns I make heavy use of "the Patron" that assigns missions. I initially ran the "Errand Of Mercy" adventure by MarkB, and then expanded upon it. I used the origianl patron in that story, Dramel d'Jorasco, who continually hires the PC's to perform tasks like find the cultists who tried to stop the Errand, find out what caused this unnatural plague, etc. Though so far I haven't done a "go fetch" mission per se.

Where can I find this "Errand of Mercy" adventure? Did MarkB post it on the boards or is it one of the freebie adventures on the website or what?
Marshall Stone
05-13-05, 07:26 PM Where can I find this "Errand of Mercy" adventure? Did MarkB post it on the boards or is it one of the freebie adventures on the website or what?

Man this took me awhile to find, back on page 30-something, but here's the address to the post: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=368844.

So yeah MarkB posted it on the boards and the post actually contains the link to the adventure he wrote. He modified the adventure after receiving some feedback.
Gurv
05-13-05, 07:42 PM Man this took me awhile to find...
I keep it bookmarked.

DIRECT LINK (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m.blunden/dnd/errand/)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zalaz Mavi 05-12-05, 08:15 PM	During lunch today, I stopped by the comic book shop. The newest issue of Dungeon was on the rack, and I saw that it contained an Eberron adventure, "The Crypt of Crimson Stars." After skimming through the piece, I came to an observation. With the exception of "Steel Shadows," every Eberron adventure I've encounted has the exact same story — rich person in Sharn hires PCs to retrieve something. This disappoints me. For a setting with so much imagination poured into it, the adventure proposals are profoundly unimaginative. It also makes me feel sorry for those DMs who rely solely on published materials. I wonder if their players begin to feel like birddogs after a mission or two. I'm in no way a professional writer. And with running my own company and raising a young daughter, I have little spare time. Yet, I can still manage to come up with something compelling for my players each week. For example, I'm reading Grifter's Game by Lawrence Block. I took the idea of the suitcase full of heroin, and came up with an adventure where my players are hired by House Kundarak to transport important bank papers from A to B. While at the lightning rail station, the case containing the papers is mixed-up with an identical looking case full of an illicit substance. A case which the authorities are following. My players will not only have to dodge the Law, but criminals trying to get their drugs back, as well as get the Kundarak case back and complete the job. I came up with that adventure in five minutes during what I laughably call my "lunch break." It's not award winning, but it fits the pulp/noir mold and should definitely be fun. So I wonder, what are other people's thoughts on the handling of Eberron adventures, whether published products or homespun? Have the staff writers become so stuck to Indiana Jones and The Maltese Falcon that all they can churn out are fetch missions? Is it that they don't grasp the concept of the setting and are just writing D&D adventures with enough Eberron novelties thrown in to let them claim it as Eberron? Or, are they so overworked they can't think straight anymore? I'm curious as to what the community at large has to say...
Radkres 05-12-05, 09:29 PM	Think of it this way they have to market for average or less DM and players. The ones who want official material but don't have the time to make up there own. Were a linear plot is the best, simple go fetch knickknack or destroy same. Convoluted and multi villain plots some times leave them going who, what, when, where? Example: The princess sold the plans to her ex lover who got killed by an old flame who gave it to her lover who then sold it to the gambler who then lost a game of chance which is how the plans wound up in a pawn shop of the mayors brother. When they were bought by a wizard who thought there might be some hidden message in them but he got killed while on his way home by some bandits who then got killed by the players as they tried the same thing on them. When the players tried to sell the plans were arrested for espionage.
KP91 05-12-05, 09:39 PM	It's because so much is unexplored so this is the most common adventure. There are hundreds of threads with ideas though. You might also want to try Steel this Hook or your own ideas.
zambuka 05-12-05, 10:23 PM	...With the exception of "Steel Shadows," every Eberron adventure I've encounted has the exact same story — rich person in Sharn hires PCs to retrieve something. ... It is not just Eberron that suffers from this, it is other settings as well. This is why I no longer buy Dungeon, or any official module for that matter. Sure you can occasionally get a good adventure but I find it is far too much hassle to dig through the mediocre, cookie cutter, fetch type adventures. Instead i go through my colection (a good 10 years worth) of pre 3rd ed (mostly pre wizards) dungeon magazines and adapt from there. What I have found is that many of these 2nd ed adventures have more Eberron flavour than most of the Eberron modules. All it takes in many cases is adding an Eberron specific item or person. In a couple of cases, adventures that revolve around intrigue or just some interesting character, just dumping it straight into the middle of Sharn works without having to change anything but the location. I also make use of "steal this hook" and Sharn Inquisitive articles to start adventures. I also write a lot of my own stuff but a vast majority is still adapted from earlier modules and adventures. The results are currently that my players are using the fear of redscale (from the last SI) to clear streets while chasing a group of anti-forged. They also have a missing persons problem (being dealt with by a young and inexperienced inquisitive, old dungeon module with only the inquisitive added. The missing people are being turned to stone and sold by an aging artist who lost his touch some time ago but has found an item that turns flesh to stone) that they want to solve, and will get involved with soon enough. They have the apprentice of a nearby wizard (Pandora's apprentice, once again from Dungeon, change Pandora to a house Orien wizard specialising in teleport and other travel spells) turning up soon after her mistress goes missing. Nothing I have planned for the next 2 or three levels has required anything more than adjusting 2nd ed to 3rd ed and changing some minor details like classes. Even changing the classes is not an issue because the ones who need changing are NPCs they wont fight, so I don't even have to stat them. The few I do have to fight are statted straight out of the DMG.
Iuducium 05-12-05, 11:09 PM	Interestingly enough, I haven't encountered that much "fetch" in the Eberron modules I'm using. Admittedly, Shadows of the Last War is definitely a fetch adventure, but it also has a bit of intrigue in it. Whispers, which my group is currently about to finish, has much less of a fetch to it (IMO) and more of a pursuit. Sure, they need to "fetch" the Soul Blade, but it's more about preventing the escape of a traitor. Grasp of the Emerald Claw, from what I've read so far, has the fetch in it, but quickly moves past that. Mostly, the fetch idea works well as a premise for adventures in a setting where many of the adventurers would be professional explorers and dungeoneers. The actual fetch adventures, like Crypt of Crimson Stars, works well for my group since our group's middleman patron runs and explorer/recovery operation. (that, of course, cannot be the case for everyone, and I realize this.) Anyway, when I find that an adventure piece or whole has too much of something like "fetch this and get paid," I simply add things in to spice it up. Not that hard, and can be done with a small time budget. Nice one on the suitcase of drugs. Sounds fun!
UltimateReality 05-12-05, 11:13 PM	With the exception of "Steel Shadows," every Eberron adventure I've encounted has the exact same story — rich person in Sharn hires PCs to retrieve something.IMO, the most obvious reason for the exclusivity of this adventure hook is thus: the module writers don't know what PCs your players are going to make. They have no idea what motivations, goals, or personalities these PCs will have, and so they can't tie in a hook that relates to that. Therefore, they must default to the most common motivator: gold. It's a universal hook. Nearly everyone's gotta work for a living, even in D&D. Adventurers can always use gold, and nine times out of ten it's the motivator that is most likely to get results. The writers are making the modules for the widest audience possible. This means that for those who like hack 'n slash, these adventures are fine. But if you're with a group that likes political intrigue, they figure you'll be creative enough to adapt the module and plot yourself.
Marshall Stone 05-13-05, 01:12 AM	IMO, the most obvious reason for the exclusivity of this adventure hook is thus: the module writers don't know what PCs your players are going to make. They have no idea what motivations, goals, or personalities these PCs will have, and so they can't tie in a hook that relates to that. Therefore, they must default to the most common motivator: gold. It's a universal hook. Nearly everyone's gotta work for a living, even in D&D. Adventurers can always use gold, and nine times out of ten it's the motivator that is most likely to get results. The writers are making the modules for the widest audience possible. This means that for those who like hack 'n slash, these adventures are fine. But if you're with a group that likes political intrigue, they figure you'll be creative enough to adapt the module and plot yourself. I have to agree with UlitmateReality here, unless it was possible to submit your group to the magazine and request an adventure the writers have to make the adventures as "open" to as many different adventuring groups as possible. However, as I understand it, the "go fetch" adventures are a staple of pulp/noir books and films; though I've only recently begun reading such books. And the ECS itself states that Patrons assigning missions is something of a standard in Eberron; though, I guess, they're not all fetch missions. I know in my campaigns I make heavy use of "the Patron" that assigns missions. I initially ran the "Errand Of Mercy" adventure by MarkB, and then expanded upon it. I used the origianl patron in that story, Dramel d'Jorasco, who continually hires the PC's to perform tasks like find the cultists who tried to stop the Errand, find out what caused this unnatural plague, etc. Though so far I haven't done a "go fetch" mission per se. I also do what you do and take adventure ideas from books, movies, TV shows, etc. I actually like "stealing" adventures from Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV show; a gold mine of plot hooks and BBEG's that I modify to fit Eberron. I don't really have a problem with fetch mission adventures, you got to start somewhere afterall. And besides you can always tweak any pre-written adventure/module to suit your tastes/needs.
stembolt 05-13-05, 01:15 AM	It is a little bit more complicated then simply “making the modules for the widest audience possible.” The problem with adventures is you have to write them without knowing any of the characters involved. There is actually a discussion on the letters page of that issue of dungeon. How do you make a political intrigue game without knowing any characters? That being said the adventure is pretty pitiful. (though I must admit it is the first adventure I have seen not written by Keith Baker that appears to be set in actual Eberron. For that matter it is the first written work worth reading, not co-/authored by Keith Baker.) You go to a place and fight. If I ever use that adventure I will probably add a whole quest where the tribe must accept them (or something) so they can enter the holy place. I remember seeing an email on the topic of adventures ages ago. It had the title “the plot of every adventure ever” it then went on like: 1)Go get thing. 2)Transport Thing. 3)Prevent someone from getting thing. And so on. Then the email described the plots to movies. Star Wars was “Transport Thing” followed by “Go Kill Thing.” Every adventure is simple, once it is broken down.
BloodyRoots 05-13-05, 01:30 AM	The adventures made for Eberron are fine by my account. I agree with the last few posters, the adventures created are not made for your group of players, they are made for everyones group of players. It is oh so easy to adapt published adventures to your own campaign. Our group just finished the grasp of emerald claw/last shadow adventures. The day after the Heroes triumphant return to Sharn they find that Lady Eleadrn(sp?) has been killed in her own home and the adventurer's are wanted for questioning. This hook leads them into the Steel Shadows adventure. Was she murdered by the ghostly Jack in Irons, a hateful WF or perhaps it was some other devious plot?
Zalaz Mavi 05-13-05, 09:57 AM	Writing "one size fits all" is a given, I understand that. What I find baffling about the situation is the thought that there has to be more than two scenarios one can write for a general audience. I've already covered the Eberron specific adventures. And looking over just the generic missions on the main site, those are more or less "go to the abandoned tower and kill everything." The same exact premise done over and over and over and... The variations are superficial, almost negligible. Again the question eating at me, is why is the variety lacking? Especially looking at the example in my first post, the concept of a luggage mix-up would work for most groups with the right focus. Even hack-n-slashers could use it. While it arguably is a fetch mission in a sense, it at least adds some nice twists. In a short space of time, I did more than trade out warforged for dinosaurs, or whathaveyou. Which begs a second question, if I, an amateur gamer, can form a general comsumption adventure idea during a working lunch, without even intending to, why can't the professionals who game 40 hours a week match that level of creativity, or better yet, put me to shame?...
Lady Morn 05-13-05, 10:17 AM	As a player, I have never really thought about the sameness of the adventures. Because my DM, as do most DMs, has customized the adventure before we embark. Now, after reading through some adventures, I wonder at the lack of variety too. WotC as a company, is really one huge gaming group. I would think that all those creative individuals in one place would challenge and inspire each other more. If not, then as individuals say to themselves: I've already written such'and'such adventure, let's try something different.
Acceptableloss 05-13-05, 12:09 PM	I know in my campaigns I make heavy use of "the Patron" that assigns missions. I initially ran the "Errand Of Mercy" adventure by MarkB, and then expanded upon it. I used the origianl patron in that story, Dramel d'Jorasco, who continually hires the PC's to perform tasks like find the cultists who tried to stop the Errand, find out what caused this unnatural plague, etc. Though so far I haven't done a "go fetch" mission per se. Where can I find this "Errand of Mercy" adventure? Did MarkB post it on the boards or is it one of the freebie adventures on the website or what?
Marshall Stone 05-13-05, 07:26 PM	Where can I find this "Errand of Mercy" adventure? Did MarkB post it on the boards or is it one of the freebie adventures on the website or what? Man this took me awhile to find, back on page 30-something, but here's the address to the post: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=368844. So yeah MarkB posted it on the boards and the post actually contains the link to the adventure he wrote. He modified the adventure after receiving some feedback.
Gurv 05-13-05, 07:42 PM	Man this took me awhile to find... I keep it bookmarked. DIRECT LINK (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m.blunden/dnd/errand/)