Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Save-vs-DM 06-06-05, 06:54 AM	Besides Eberron, I also quite enjoy playing City of Heroes. I got to thinking (well, my buddy had the idea and I think it's good, so I decided to run with it) that a few elements could be added to Eberron go give it a sort of action feel. Specifically, the idea of Badges and Accolades. Basically in City of Heroes you can get badges for doing things (exploring, history, killing certian things) and accolades by earning certain badges. Badges are just nifty title things, but accolades give you goodies. Still, I want to set this up in such a way that it doesn't feel like a "kill stuff get cool stuff" way. My thought is to go light on the "kill things" sort of badges and instead go more for heroic stuff. I also want to keep this bookkeeping light. Tall order, I know. That's where you folks on the boards come in. Anyone want to help me with this little project. Here are a few accolades I've come up with. Dauntless: Surviving being knocked to negative hit points five times. Grants you the toughness feat. Diehard: As dauntless, but survive ten times. Grants you Diehard. Explorer: Visit 5 hidden places (to be determined by the DM, probably something like Stormreach, Thronehold, Glass Plataeu, Aernenal and The Lhazaar Principalities). Grants Skill Focus (Survival) Wayfinder: As Explorer, but visit ten places. Grants Skill Focus (Knowledge (Geography)) These are the kinds of things I'm going for. Bascially handing out feats that are at the lower rung of the power scale. What do you think? Out of place? Better suited for another game? Cool idea? Cheers, Save vs DM
polt 06-06-05, 07:44 AM	I think it's pretty cool. Although I would make the first two harder to get. I run a pretty hard game, and they would get those in 4-5 games :D
Rosary 06-06-05, 08:19 AM	From my point of view, everything that rewards the players for doing stunning acts of bravado should be rewarded - but it has to involve some kind of deliberate action from the PC's side. In my humble opinion, getting yourself nearly killed 5 times shouldn't be rewarded, but saving a comrades life 5 times, should be. But I really like the idea. Just consider who should do the logging, you, or the PC herself.
Setherial 06-06-05, 09:09 AM	I love it !!! :mage: I'm going to propose it to my group next time we play, put the idea in the open and see what they think. Currently I'm playing and not DM'ing, and since my character (I play the thank) already just bearly survived several though encounters I would certainly think the survival feat would be a cool way to represent that. It also gives you a reason to want to stick to one character in groups with players who like jumping from character to character. cheers Seth
Save-vs-DM 06-06-05, 07:55 PM	Huh, I actually didn't expect such positive feedback. I think it will just take a bit of time to work out ways to reward "heroic" efforts. Maybe we can start a list of a heroic feats and go from there (add rewards later). Here's what I have so far. Save a companion 5 times without regard to personal safety. Save an npc 5 times without regard to personal safety. Survive 5 trips to the mournlands without falling unconcious. Discovering a unique magic item? (not sure on this one) Creating 5 unique magic items. Succeeding on 5 strength or dexterity checks with a DC higher than 30. That's all for now (and I have to say, I'd like to thank the Red Cross for putting internet stations out here for the blood donors...makes the wait less boring). Cheers, Save vs DM
Rosary 06-08-05, 07:01 AM	Hi again, just a couple of suggestions for some rewards: - Skill focuses is an obvious way of rewarding multiple succesful skillchecks with high DCs. 30 as you suggested, Save-vs-DM, wouldn't be a bad idea. To my experience, people rarely want to spend one of those precious feats on a skill focus. - Proficiency with a weapon could be gained if you slay a/a few/several? foe(s) with a weapon that you get a -4 to hit with (are not proficient with). This should be given when a character saves the day in a desperate situation by improvising, making a make-shift weapon, or is somehow creative. - hrmmm, can't come up with more at the time. I'll be back! :D
Streamweaver 06-08-05, 07:55 AM	What you basically seem to be getting at here is some kind of reward system that is fun in a metagame sense. Like anything that could be fun it's all a mater of personal taste and if you and your players would enjoy it then go for it, there really is no wrong answer. Personally I'm not really keen on the idea because it puts too much focus on the metagaming aspect and I don't see the fun in doing that for a tabletop game. In MMOs like Cith of Heroes all they really have is the metagame and while you can kind or read through a narrative while you grind through it, it's still really just a metagame. All MMOs lack the ability to be about the characters story and though both MMOs and Tabletops have RPG in their description they really are apples and oranges. What you really seem to be doing here is taking a tabletop RPG reputation system, which is meant to have context to the players story and how they interact with the world and instead do away with the world and deal only with the rules which I see as a bit too sterile for my tabletop tastes, but again if you find it fun go for it. Reputation systems have existed for some time in tabletop games though and I'd suggest looking more heavily at one of those systems if you want to preserve a more traditional RPG feel. Players earning titles for their reputation is a tried and true element of most games but it usually has to have some kind of reasonable context. If a player kills thousands or orcs out of sight of anyone who could further his reputation, they are not likely to develop one. On the other hand they could kill just a few while saving a city or town and earn the title "Orc Crusher" (or whatever). So I think if you use a system like the one your suggestion straight from an MMO you may be losing sight that table top games are more about context of events and the players story, rather than the rules.
Twinblades 06-08-05, 08:39 AM	Personally I like the idea - and I'll definitely be introducing the Dauntless accolade. Yes it's rewarding what is essentially bad luck on the PC's part, but they're not likely to get either in a hurry and 3 bonus HP is nice but in no way unbalancing after a few levels. Aftrer all, what doesn't kill you can only make you stronger.. And lets face it, nobody's going to take toughness as an actual Feat after 1st level anyway. Other ideas: Save a companion 5 times without regard to personal safety Give a +2 bonus (or more) on checks to Aid Another? I'm not so keen on granting Die Hard for surviving negative HP 10 times. But I'd consider granting it for someone who survived a coup de grace Making a "save or die" saving throw could grant a permanent +1 luck bonus to that save That's all for now...
okaynowa 06-08-05, 09:45 AM	Maybe if the bonuses were more limited in their application they'd be more sub-feat worthy... For example, something like: Over the Side! [BADGE] Cats, buttered toast, professional roofers, and you. Pre-requisites: To earn this badge, you must survive at least five falls of 30 ft. or more (or 50 ft? Or each fall 10 ft more than the previous fall?) in the city of Sharn. For a fall to count, you must not be under the effect of a feather fall spell or similar protective magic. It should also be noted that using a natural or magical Fly speed or gliding does not count as falling. A downwards jump, however, might count. Try it, see what happens. Benefit: Any time you are in the city of Sharn, you can make a Ref save (DC 15 + 1 for every 10 ft you fall) to reduce falling damage by one die (minimum 1 die damage-- you can't reduce the damage to 0). Perhaps, after this many slip-ups, you've instinctively learned how to ride the crosswinds or grab the railings in time... What could really make these "badges" work is if the players don't know what the qualifications are. That is, the DM secretly keeps track of players' fun/cool stunts, and rewards them at the appropriate time, encouraging daring but not repetition.
Setherial 06-08-05, 09:50 AM	What you really seem to be doing here is taking a tabletop RPG reputation system This is actually something I want to start using in my games (any idea on sources I can read to get some ideas from already existing systems ?). I like what is being posted here a lot but in my opinion it should go both ways. A Wizard who suffers from spell failure 4 out of 5 times should be concidered a fraud. A fighter who fumbles and instead of shooting the bad guy his aim is off and he misses his foe and hits the mayor of town. Months even years after people will remeber that story. Stuff like this is just plain fun to use, makes the players deal with disadvantages as well as advantages. another way to go is build sort of a path system : - path of the warrior for instance would grant 5 feats you can gain as your reputation as a legendary warrior grows. - path of the faith would aim at showing true faith, which would ultimatly lead to a reputation as a saint. others: path of the explorer, path of the assassin, path of the brute, path of the usurper...
Jimmifett 06-08-05, 01:18 PM	I personally think this is a brilliant idea. The qualifications would need to be secretly tracked by the DM, definately. Some other ideas... "Oh, by the way, You have gained the 'Lucky Missile Dodge' Feat for being missed 50 times in a ranged sneak attack situation. You get a +2 to AC during ranged missile sneak attacks. You are not Neo, you just happen to instinctively twist out of the path of the ranged sneak attack." "You sir, are a drunken idiot! After drinking 50 ppl under the table in drinking contests and not throwing up or passing out afterwards, you've developed a tolerence to alcohol. +2 save vs getting drunk, Reputation as one of the best drinkers on the continent. Those who know of your bar hall exploits will buy you a drink." "You are now known across the continent as a Sir Butterfingers. You have been disarmed 25 times. People who recognize your name will laugh and point you out to thier friends. Shop keepers that have heard of you, unless they are honest, will see you as an easy mark and charge you an extra 10%, and will undervalue stuff you are selling by 20%. After all, who wants the sword used by Sir Butterfingers?" "After healing 1000 points of damage through Natural Healing (without the aid of potions, magic, or healing kits), you have become known across the land as a True Bad Ass. You get 1 level of toughness. Additionally, for every 20 points of natural healing from this point on, you gain 5xp. For the cost of telling valiant stories of your doing battle, you shall have free drinks and food at inns and bars. Shops that know of your exploits will sell you items at 10% discount."
Save-vs-DM 06-08-05, 07:42 PM	So I think if you use a system like the one your suggestion straight from an MMO you may be losing sight that table top games are more about context of events and the players story, rather than the rules. That is one thing that i'm worried about, and I also totally missed how similar this is to a standard reputation system (which I already heavily use, my characters like it). The problem is that I already heavily reward them with roleplay rewards (new contacts, status, titles and such) but you know, in the end, it is a game about killing stuff and it's nice to get minor rewards for killing things. I do like the idea of negative titles and status as well. Sir Butterfingers is just too good not to use! I think that tonight I'll write up several of them (I like the feat format you used, okaynowa. Going to stick with that). Generally, this was a way to reward my players for heroic exploits in the face of danger in a way that they find tangible. Sure, have the title of "Big Jim the Bad Arse" is great, but it's also nice if Jim can back that title up with a little goodie. Cheers, Save vs DM
Streamweaver 06-08-05, 07:53 PM	That is one thing that i'm worried about, and I also totally missed how similar this is to a standard reputation system (which I already heavily use, my characters like it). The problem is that I already heavily reward them with roleplay rewards (new contacts, status, titles and such) but you know, in the end, it is a game about killing stuff and it's nice to get minor rewards for killing things. I do like the idea of negative titles and status as well. Sir Butterfingers is just too good not to use! I think that tonight I'll write up several of them (I like the feat format you used, okaynowa. Going to stick with that). Generally, this was a way to reward my players for heroic exploits in the face of danger in a way that they find tangible. Sure, have the title of "Big Jim the Bad Arse" is great, but it's also nice if Jim can back that title up with a little goodie. Cheers, Save vs DM I think what you're suggesting here sounds like a good implementation of the system. I think if you keep the reputation system or whatever you want to call it focused on events of the session it could be a lot of fun. This keeps the players somewhat in the dark as to what's available but you'd avoid situations where one player wants to complete the adventure and save the NPC while another wants to run to the Mournland instead to get their badge.
Save-vs-DM 06-08-05, 08:23 PM	Oh, yeah, totally. This isn't about going in search of cool stuff and was never meant to be about that. It's more of a way of rewarding heroic feats. The players are totally in the dark about just how they can earn these badges. I'll just announce when someone has it the next time the badge would be useful comes up...then they go...err, how did I get that? Cheers, Save vs DM
anarco_rata 06-08-05, 10:57 PM	I've been using a similar reward system with my players for some time now, but instead of awarding feats, they earn small bonuses to some skills, and if they don't use those skills for some time, they lose those bonuses. For instance, a player once cured the entire party with 4 20's in a row! I told him that he actually had gained 2 ranks on the heal skill, because he learned valuable thing about first aid... but if that character goes as long time without using the heal skill, he will forget all those things. What you need to know is that granting them free feats just for beign the players is not a good option. Feats represent long training, months or years of perfecting some skill, they do not gain some feats just because they where lucky with their dice...
Jimmifett 06-09-05, 09:46 AM	yet another badge.. "After returning to town from slaying your 100th kobold, you learn you have become famous as so and so, The Kobold Slayer. Whenever you pass through areas being tormented by kobolds, the people will beseach you to eliminate the kobold menace, offering you food, drink, lodging, and even gold. Unfortunately, your title has spread to the kobold communities. They have pooled together resources to hire a band of assassins in addition to placing a bounty on your head."
Sithis 06-09-05, 05:23 PM	I'd also suggest keeping the badges unique so it becomes more a character descriptor than just another benefit. Keep the bonuses minor and specific so that just because someone gets lucky and triggers a bonus doesn't mean they're better than everyone else. The falling one is a great example. It should only be available to one character (since it's supposed to be something special about them) and it's very specific about when it happens (but still beneficial).
okaynowa 06-10-05, 02:08 AM	A helpful feature of working up to these badges (and their proposed benefits) is that they represent a lot of actual gaming. After that much play(testing), the DM should have a fairly good idea of how good a perk can be given without radically changing the dynamic of the game.